Wow! Just amazing this entire thread and all of the topics covered in an intellectual debate for the ages!
I assume most of you are sleeping after a long night, but a tip of the hat at your morning coffee goes to [@]SolipsismX[/@], [@]digitalclips[/@], [@]Dick Applebaum[/@], [@]muppetry[/@]... and a number of others for some fantastic insight and commentary. I'll even include notable mentions to [@]SpamSandwich[/@], [@]sog35[/@], and [@]Benjamin Frost[/@] for a fair and civil opposition.
Not like I'm a judge or referee of any kind, but I felt like applauding as if at a tennis match or soccer game.... for both sides sometimes. Instead I decided to just read the next great reply and up-vote... until I received a notice from Huddler that I had expended my daily up-voting for the day(???) How many is that BTW?
@To the first group above - damn! I just resigned myself to letting you guys do the writing, because I couldn't have written any of your posts better... and at times thought I was in some kind of dimension where all my thoughts and abilities to express them intelligently were being "ghosted" for me. Weird Twilight Zone kind of stuff! Not often that I run across not one, but 4 people that share the same views across subjects of contention.... all in one place!
I want to share one oddity that I went through in my younger years, that plays to the topic "we are born what we are", and that in our youth we are often confused about our sexuality, or have experienced "tragedies" that form our later sexual preferences. It was brought up originally by @Benjamin Frost. Just to preface as to choice: no, we don't have any choice. It's hardwired as much as is hair, eye, and skin color... and it's a good thing.
In my case, I was attracted to women from such a young age, I can't ever imagine them not being the center of my attention to this day. In my earliest memories, I doted on my mother, sister, babysitters, aunts, neighbor girls and moms... of all shapes, sizes, colors and age. Doting meant everything from brushing or curling their hair, helping them cook or sew, putting on make-up (painting them), picking out outfits and dressing them, even fixing up their toy kitchens and dolls... and coloring(!). All things that would cause many a parent or observer to think, " yup... gay as a pink tutu". On the other hand, I was also a big kid and excelled at just about all sports with the boys... which of course confused those with the "gay label" ready to apply to my forehead, especially in the 60's and 70's because the thought was "well... gays can't play sports".
Through out school it was all my dad... a sog35 kinda guy... to keep me from ruining my future and that of any number of girlfriends (even ladies on my paper route) by having "5ex". His rants scared me celibate for swinging for the fences and a homer until I was just short of 20. That's not to say I wasn't sexually active at an earlier age than I'm comfortable sharing, but it was often enough questioned as to "why not... let's just go all the way". I was literally and mentally "scarred". Long story short: right time, right girl, and right frame of mind confirmed my hardwired instinct and dispelled any "slight" confusion I previously had.
It got even stranger after moving to LA, because I fell in with a largely gay group of designers and friends, who were always trying to get the "jock" to come out, because even they thought, "naw... can't be that tuned into girls without wanting to be one".... and he's still a virgin OMG! Even in that sexually charged atmosphere and easily having the opportunity to "explore" if I wanted to with no repercussions, it never 'tickled" me in the least to see if being a virgin with the girls, wasn't actually due to something deeper.
Also in LA, I was introduced to an "odd" form of discrimination, because you HAD to be gay in certain parts of the city, occupations and projects, or to be taken seriously. Also of course not to be considered simply a "perv". I was lucky that I was in LA though, because I could turn my creative feminine side into business opportunities where a certain amount of "understanding" and doting is a beautiful and successful thing for women that appreciate it... and for the guys that enjoy the results.
Everyone has a story, some more complicated than others. My assumed sexuality from a young age into my 20's, was tossed about like a ping-pong ball, even though I myself never doubted it. Sexuality has to be one of the most talked about, debated and controversial topics through out history, because it defines who and what we are.... and often... what we are to become and do with our lives. It should never be discriminated against no matter what the x's and y's have already determined for each individual. ---------------------------------------------------! *** SH*T! I've started a last remark to this post now for the last time, trying to think up something as clever and learned as the posts above... hell with it. :rolleyes:
100 dittos and up-votes to all those above who have said everything better than I ever could... and Tim Cook for president!... :smokey:
I was thinking the same... Remarkable moment in the history of corporate America will be when statements like this lose importance, because no-one will care any more.
The only people that care are gays and über liberals. Not one conservative talk show I listened to yesterday mentioned Tim Cook at all. It was hardly mentioned in my Twitter news feed at all. And when it was it was coming from tech people I follow. CNBC talked about it all morning yet Bloomberg and Fox Business barely mentioned it at all.
I am not going to weed through 9 pages, likely to be closer to 10, just to find some anti-homosexuals to quote them on. I am sure they are within those pages but alas.
Why did Tim cook have to come out? As he mentioned, he likes his privacy. He could have kept this out of the public but the fact that people all over the world, get beaten, sometimes to death, just for their sexual orientation is beyond "humane" and is just out right unfathomable behavior. Who we choose to love, is between two people and their utmost desires. The fact that two people share love, trust, commitment, passion - seems to be more said about straight marriages who end up in divorce or where we hear about a spouse committing domestic abuse. You rarely hear about these things in the news with the gay community.
If you don't like that Tim Cook is gay, deal with it. He's doing a damn fine job as CEO and will continue to give it his all. I support him, and all of my straight and gay friends in their choices.
Oh, and I am straight myself, I just choose to love people unconditionally regardless of their sexual orientation, race or religion.
If you were a reporter and wrote about gay domestic abuse, violence, or anything at all negative, you'd be fired on the spot for being too politically incorrect, "bigoted, etc. So don't assume that gays are nicer or more moral people than heterosexual people. It just ain't so.
I've always found that odd myself. Then again I knew from a very young age that I was straight. I never made a choice, I truly was born that way. It just makes sense to me that it would work the same way for gay people too.
May I respectfully suggest, without being accused of being hateful or judgemental, that it doesn't have to be a case of making a choice or not.
Consider the anecdotal case of a child is a kleptomaniac or who displays extreme sadistic tendencies at a very early age without being abused or coerced. Do we then say that that is "another normal" because he/she seemed to have been "born that way"?
Or is it possible that just as how some people are born physically deformed others are born psychologically deformed and MAY benefit from at least the attempt of corrective therapy?
Just a thought.
My apologies to anyone who may have been offended or felt insulted by my previous posts! that was certainly not my intention.
ROFL ... I lived in Derbyshire/Yorkshire/ Co Durham /Essex/Northumberland/Stirling/Edinburgh [ and really bad ass accents / dialect in Catalonia/Massachusetts/Florida] ... just missed out on Manchester/Liverpool ... I am almost multi-lingual.
ROFL ... I lived in Derbyshire/Yorkshire/ Co Durham /Essex/Northumberland/Stirling/Edinburgh [ and really bad ass accents / dialect in Catalonia/Massachusetts/Florida] ... just missed out on Manchester/Liverpool ... I am almost multi-lingual.
Wow! Just amazing this entire thread and all of the topics covered in an intellectual debate for the ages!
I assume most of you are sleeping after a long night, but a tip of the hat at your morning coffee goes to [@]SolipsismX[/@], [@]digitalclips[/@], [@]Dick Applebaum[/@], [@]muppetry[/@]... and a number of others for some fantastic insight and commentary. I'll even include notable mentions to [@]SpamSandwich[/@], [@]sog35[/@], and [@]Benjamin Frost[/@] for a fair and civil opposition.
Not like I'm a judge or referee of any kind, but I felt like applauding as if at a tennis match or soccer game.... for both sides sometimes. Instead I decided to just read the next great reply and up-vote... until I received a notice from Huddler that I had expended my daily up-voting for the day(???) How many is that BTW?
@To the first group above - damn! I just resigned myself to letting you guys do the writing, because I couldn't have written any of your posts better... and at times thought I was in some kind of dimension where all my thoughts and abilities to express them intelligently were being "ghosted" for me. Weird Twilight Zone kind of stuff! Not often that I run across not one, but 4 people that share the same views across subjects of contention.... all in one place!
I want to share one oddity that I went through in my younger years, that plays to the topic "we are born what we are", and that in our youth we are often confused about our sexuality, or have experienced "tragedies" that form our later sexual preferences. It was brought up originally by @Benjamin Frost. Just to preface as to choice: no, we don't have any choice. It's hardwired as much as is hair, eye, and skin color... and it's a good thing.
In my case, I was attracted to women from such a young age, I can't ever imagine them not being the center of my attention to this day. In my earliest memories, I doted on my mother, sister, babysitters, aunts, neighbor girls and moms... of all shapes, sizes, colors and age. Doting meant everything from brushing or curling their hair, helping them cook or sew, putting on make-up (painting them), picking out outfits and dressing them, even fixing up their toy kitchens and dolls... and coloring(!). All things that would cause many a parent or observer to think, " yup... gay as a pink tutu". On the other hand, I was also a big kid and excelled at just about all sports with the boys... which of course confused those with the "gay label" ready to apply to my forehead, especially in the 60's and 70's because the thought was "well... gays can't play sports".
Through out school it was all my dad... a sog35 kinda guy... to keep me from ruining my future and that of any number of girlfriends (even ladies on my paper route) by having "5ex". His rants scared me celibate for swinging for the fences and a homer until I was just short of 20. That's not to say I wasn't sexually active at an earlier age than I'm comfortable sharing, but it was often enough questioned as to "why not... let's just go all the way". I was literally and mentally "scarred". Long story short: right time, right girl, and right frame of mind confirmed my hardwired instinct and dispelled any "slight" confusion I previously had.
It got even stranger after moving to LA, because I fell in with a largely gay group of designers and friends, who were always trying to get the "jock" to come out, because even they thought, "naw... can't be that tuned into girls without wanting to be one".... and he's still a virgin OMG! Even in that sexually charged atmosphere and easily having the opportunity to "explore" if I wanted to with no repercussions, it never 'tickled" me in the least to see if being a virgin with the girls, wasn't actually due to something deeper.
Also in LA, I was introduced to an "odd" form of discrimination, because you HAD to be gay in certain parts of the city, occupations and projects, or to be taken seriously. Also of course not to be considered simply a "perv". I was lucky that I was in LA though, because I could turn my creative feminine side into business opportunities where a certain amount of "understanding" and doting is a beautiful and successful thing for women that appreciate it... and for the guys that enjoy the results.
Everyone has a story, some more complicated than others. My assumed sexuality from a young age into my 20's, was tossed about like a ping-pong ball, even though I myself never doubted it. Sexuality has to be one of the most talked about, debated and controversial topics through out history, because it defines who and what we are.... and often... what we are to become and do with our lives. It should never be discriminated against no matter what the x's and y's have already determined for each individual.
!
*** SH*T! I've started a last remark to this post now for the last time, trying to think up something as clever and learned as the posts above... hell with it. :rolleyes:
100 dittos and up-votes to all those above who have said everything better than I ever could... and Tim Cook for president!... :smokey:
Comments
I assume most of you are sleeping after a long night, but a tip of the hat at your morning coffee goes to [@]SolipsismX[/@], [@]digitalclips[/@], [@]Dick Applebaum[/@], [@]muppetry[/@]... and a number of others for some fantastic insight and commentary. I'll even include notable mentions to [@]SpamSandwich[/@], [@]sog35[/@], and [@]Benjamin Frost[/@] for a fair and civil opposition.
Not like I'm a judge or referee of any kind, but I felt like applauding as if at a tennis match or soccer game.... for both sides sometimes. Instead I decided to just read the next great reply and up-vote... until I received a notice from Huddler that I had expended my daily up-voting for the day(???) How many is that BTW?
@To the first group above - damn! I just resigned myself to letting you guys do the writing, because I couldn't have written any of your posts better... and at times thought I was in some kind of dimension where all my thoughts and abilities to express them intelligently were being "ghosted" for me. Weird Twilight Zone kind of stuff! Not often that I run across not one, but 4 people that share the same views across subjects of contention.... all in one place!
I want to share one oddity that I went through in my younger years, that plays to the topic "we are born what we are", and that in our youth we are often confused about our sexuality, or have experienced "tragedies" that form our later sexual preferences. It was brought up originally by @Benjamin Frost. Just to preface as to choice: no, we don't have any choice. It's hardwired as much as is hair, eye, and skin color... and it's a good thing.
In my case, I was attracted to women from such a young age, I can't ever imagine them not being the center of my attention to this day. In my earliest memories, I doted on my mother, sister, babysitters, aunts, neighbor girls and moms... of all shapes, sizes, colors and age. Doting meant everything from brushing or curling their hair, helping them cook or sew, putting on make-up (painting them), picking out outfits and dressing them, even fixing up their toy kitchens and dolls... and coloring(!). All things that would cause many a parent or observer to think, " yup... gay as a pink tutu". On the other hand, I was also a big kid and excelled at just about all sports with the boys... which of course confused those with the "gay label" ready to apply to my forehead, especially in the 60's and 70's because the thought was "well... gays can't play sports".
Through out school it was all my dad... a sog35 kinda guy... to keep me from ruining my future and that of any number of girlfriends (even ladies on my paper route) by having "5ex". His rants scared me celibate for swinging for the fences and a homer until I was just short of 20. That's not to say I wasn't sexually active at an earlier age than I'm comfortable sharing, but it was often enough questioned as to "why not... let's just go all the way". I was literally and mentally "scarred". Long story short: right time, right girl, and right frame of mind confirmed my hardwired instinct and dispelled any "slight" confusion I previously had.
It got even stranger after moving to LA, because I fell in with a largely gay group of designers and friends, who were always trying to get the "jock" to come out, because even they thought, "naw... can't be that tuned into girls without wanting to be one".... and he's still a virgin OMG! Even in that sexually charged atmosphere and easily having the opportunity to "explore" if I wanted to with no repercussions, it never 'tickled" me in the least to see if being a virgin with the girls, wasn't actually due to something deeper.
Also in LA, I was introduced to an "odd" form of discrimination, because you HAD to be gay in certain parts of the city, occupations and projects, or to be taken seriously. Also of course not to be considered simply a "perv". I was lucky that I was in LA though, because I could turn my creative feminine side into business opportunities where a certain amount of "understanding" and doting is a beautiful and successful thing for women that appreciate it... and for the guys that enjoy the results.
Everyone has a story, some more complicated than others. My assumed sexuality from a young age into my 20's, was tossed about like a ping-pong ball, even though I myself never doubted it. Sexuality has to be one of the most talked about, debated and controversial topics through out history, because it defines who and what we are.... and often... what we are to become and do with our lives. It should never be discriminated against no matter what the x's and y's have already determined for each individual.
---------------------------------------------------!
*** SH*T! I've started a last remark to this post now for the last time, trying to think up something as clever and learned as the posts above... hell with it. :rolleyes:
100 dittos and up-votes to all those above who have said everything better than I ever could... and Tim Cook for president!... :smokey:
So, he's proud he has a MENTAL DISEASE! Yes, it's a mental disease, he's not "different", he's SICK!
Ee by gum.
Oh aye. Nice day in Cupertino, was it?
Out of where?
Out of Africa.
I thought that was Robert Redford? Oh well hopefully it wasn't West Africa. There's a ebonics breakout going on.
If you were a reporter and wrote about gay domestic abuse, violence, or anything at all negative, you'd be fired on the spot for being too politically incorrect, "bigoted, etc. So don't assume that gays are nicer or more moral people than heterosexual people. It just ain't so.
A combination of Ebola and bionics? ????
The $8 million virus.
I've always found that odd myself. Then again I knew from a very young age that I was straight. I never made a choice, I truly was born that way. It just makes sense to me that it would work the same way for gay people too.
May I respectfully suggest, without being accused of being hateful or judgemental, that it doesn't have to be a case of making a choice or not.
Consider the anecdotal case of a child is a kleptomaniac or who displays extreme sadistic tendencies at a very early age without being abused or coerced. Do we then say that that is "another normal" because he/she seemed to have been "born that way"?
Or is it possible that just as how some people are born physically deformed others are born psychologically deformed and MAY benefit from at least the attempt of corrective therapy?
Just a thought.
My apologies to anyone who may have been offended or felt insulted by my previous posts! that was certainly not my intention.
ROFL ... I lived in Derbyshire/Yorkshire/ Co Durham /Essex/Northumberland/Stirling/Edinburgh [ and really bad ass accents / dialect in Catalonia/Massachusetts/Florida] ... just missed out on Manchester/Liverpool ... I am almost multi-lingual.
No Northamptonshire, then. ????
Quite well said without a clever last remark!
Grandkids heading out to Target to get a last-minute Halloween costume for my 14-year-old grandson ...
18-year-old granddaughter says: "Dress up like Obama -- then steal everybody's money."
LMAO!
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[*] http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/183132/im-proud-to-be-gay-apple-ceo-tim-cook-says-in-open-letter-supporting-equality/560#post_2631886
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Done!
New beginning for you?
"SolipsismY"? Is someone trolling Soli?