How Apple, Inc. went thermonuclear on Samsung, erasing Android's primary profit center

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  • Reply 221 of 315

    I'm not buying into the "Apple went thermonuclear on Samsung" idea, that was really Steve Jobs premise & not Tim Cook's. Apple simply focused on making great products while Samsung was busy making gimmicks & cheap "High-End" phones. Samsungs team is simply not as talented.

  • Reply 222 of 315
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by zeromeus View Post

     



    Unfortunately, cats tend to land on their feet...




    But it was a copy cat, geddit?

  • Reply 223 of 315

    So correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't that mean that Samsung may end up earning more of its profits from Apple (in the form of component sales) than from Android? The irony. 

     

    I also read somewhere that Samsung's average profit per device sold is now just $18. Apple earns more than 10 times that. Looks like the days of aggressive advertising from Samsung is coming to an end. Which is just as well - they were tasteless and dumb beyond anything I have ever seen. 

  • Reply 224 of 315
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cali View Post



    Thursday was full of headlines that read "Apple destroys the competition".



    -Lackluster Fire Phone profit and sales.



    -Samsung profit down %73.9.



    -Andy Rubin abandons android.

     

    You missed the Sony reported huge loss due to difficult smartphone markets story...

  • Reply 225 of 315
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

    Show me some hard numbers that show how many android users switched to IOS because of 6/6+ and maybe you have a point. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking.


     

    Be patient.  Wait for the next quarterly results for Samsung, HTC and Sony.  Then compare the results with the current quarter.

     

    Should be quite obvious.

  • Reply 226 of 315
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Those graphs are pretty.

     

    But did you not read the heading;  ESTIMATES, ESTIMATES, ESTIMATES, ESTIMATES.

     

    IN OTHER WORDS THEY ARE MADE UP NUMBERS.  COME TO ME WHEN SAMSUNG REPORTS UNIT SALES IN THEIR FINANCIAL STATEMENTS LIKE APPLE.

     

    Till then the only stat we can go by is PROFITS.  Apple profits are up 25%.  Samsung Mobile down by 75%.

     

    In Jan 2013 Samsung said they sold 100M Galaxy phones:

    http://www.samsung.com/uk/news/local/samsung-galaxy-s-series-surpasses-100-million-unit-sales

     

    That was covering several years.  Since then we have heard NOTHING from Samsung about unit sales for Galaxy phones.  Why?  Because their sales are TANKING.  If they sold 130,000,000 they would be BRAGGING about it non stop. 

     

    Read this to see how Bad that prediciton of 130,000,000 units are:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/11/06/only-one-third-of-samsungs-smartphone-sales-are-in-the-class-of-apples-iphone-aapl

     

    They probably sold less than 90,000,000 units in 2013.

    And reports are estimating that unit sales in 2014 are down 30-50% (which is backed up by profits going down 75%)


     

    1) Sure, and you still don't have any data to back up your nonsensical batsh*t claims.

     

    2) Any survey, research data -- and it includes IDC stats you cited as your primary source earlier, quite hypocritically -- by analysts are far superior to whatever you and Dilger frequently pull out of your asses.  

     

    3) not quite sure what you are trying to prove with the Jan 2013 Samsung announcement.  Samsung announced that they sold more than 100 M units sales between June, 2010 and Dec, 2012 -- not "several years" -- but that's exactly what Morgan Stanley Research Report I produced here indicates.  According to MSR's report, Samsung sold a grand total of 108M of premium S models during 2011-2012.  It supports my conclusion, not yours.  Do you even read your own sources or think before you say something?   Do you even realize that the first Galaxy S was released in June 2010?

  • Reply 227 of 315
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Of course they won't say Apple is eating their lunch.  That is their MAIN COMPETITOR. Admiting that Apple is eating there lunch is akin to surrender.  But they can easily blame it on a CHEAP POS company like Xiaomi.  Cause Xiaomi is not a real threat to Samsungs core profits.

     

    Samsung will NEVER admit Apple is killing them.  But the financials are the PROOF. 

     

    Unit sales are only down 8%

    Yet profits are down 75%

    Thats proof that price per unit has gone down DRASTICALLY.

    That means they are selling SIGNIFICANTLY less high end phones.

    I wonder who's unit sales of HIGH END phones went up 25% last Quarter?

     

    Could it be....Apple?


     

    @sog35 : Sure, unlike you, I'm not a psychic.  I draw conclusions only based on what is announced, surveyed or reported, plus my decades of technical training and industry experience -- which includes two tech start-ups by former Apple employees.  Sure, Apple and Samsung are competitors in the premium market segment, but, again, Dilger and you failed to produce any evidence that Apple is indeed squeezing Samsung's high-end business.

  • Reply 228 of 315
    I guess the fat lady has sung for Uncle Sam's enemy.
    I'm shocked that you know about Kate Smith singing God Bless America in '76 in the hockey game between the Philidelphia Flyers and the great Russian Army team of that era. The Russians had already swept through Canada and beaten the top NHL teams, before landing for a last game against the nicknamed Broadstreet Bullies, at which Kate belted out her probably most famous rendition of GBA. The biggest scandal came shortly into the game when the literal Bullies pumped with adrenalin, beat... again literally... the bejeezus out if the Russians, which after another top player going down in a heap of pain, the Russians left the ice and retreated to their locker room. After cajoling and who knows what other threats, tricks or treats the NHL officials offered, the Russians came back to the ice 15 long minutes later and got a fair beating. One of only a handful of defeats that the great Russian Army team would ever experience, until the big one in Lake Placid 1980 Olympics, famed as the Miracle on Ice.*

    Or were you thinking about the fat lady of the opera? Then this was just a boring sports history post... sorry.

    * just want to add that it was the late great US coach Herb Brooks, a neighbor and youth coach, that put the stifling blue-line to blue-line defense of Fred Shero's Flyers, and the free-wheeling rotation of the offense by Russian coach Viktor Tikhonov together to pull off the amazing defeat. With a college team that included 16 Minnesota boys, many who I had the pleasure to watch and even play against in my younger years.
  • Reply 229 of 315
    You will have to give me time to try to figure out the connection between what i write and your responses this morning, I'm not seeing them. Perhaps i need more coffee.

    A bit late for the suggestion, but you could've had a Champagne Breakfast or a couple of fingers of good ol' Irish blend in "celebration" of Reformation Day... and do it again this morning for All Saints Day...:D

    Coffee alone isn't helping make many if these replies make much sense...:rolleyes:
  • Reply 230 of 315
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     



    People knew the iPhone6 was coming with a larger screen.

    So people held of their purchases.  

     

    Pretty easy to understand.




    Million, upon million of Android users were just patiently waiting months and months for an iPhone rather than just go get an LG G3 for barely more than half the price of a 6?

     

    You are completely delusional.

  • Reply 231 of 315
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    mcalevy wrote: »
    There is the potential out there for a billion sales of a workable ubuntu phone. As Americans, you have no idea, as it is literally impossible for you to walk into a retailer and test drive a computer with linux installed, in spite of the fact that every major manufacture sells computers outside the USA with linux installed. You just cannot find one on their USA website or in a USA store.

    Because they suck in comparison to a chrome book and amazingly has fewer apps.

    Perhaps if the freetards didn't keep shooting themselves in the foot regarding freetardian purity it would be different.
    The day I can dock my smartphone into a laptop shell is the day I get rid of my Apple products. And so will a lot of schools and corporations.

    How's that Atrix working out for you?

    Somehow a lot of schools and corporations didn't make the Atrix even vaguely a success.
  • Reply 232 of 315

    Dilger, your posts are a disease on this website. Instead of reading about Apple, we get to read your mouth-foaming diatribes about Samsung every single week!

     

    Give me a P, give me an A, give me a THETIC.

  • Reply 233 of 315
    diegogdiegog Posts: 135member
    I read the first sentence of this post and it was so ignorant there was no point reading the rest....
    cnocbui wrote: »
    I read the first sentence which was so wrong there was no point reading the rest.   Samsung shot themselves in the foot with the S5 which, apart from the screen, was so underwhelming people went and bought something else.  When I was looking for a phone for my son, Samsung didn't even occur to me since all their top end phones are rather dull so I got him an LG.  Xiaomi has increased sales in the last quarter by 211.3 % and it's Apple who are the cause of Samsung's problems?  Er, don't think so.  That would have required a high proportion of all the potential S5 buyers to have switched camps and gone and bought 5Ss instead, because the 6 hasn't been on sale long enough to have caused Samsung's woes which are rooted in factors prior to the launch of the 6.  Has Apple's market share increased from all those potential S5 buyers jumping ship?  No.  Kantar have ios market share actually declining in the US market in Sep. to 32.6% while Android increased to 61.8% .  In Europe, iOS market share is only 15.4%.

    Samsung makes far too many models and I think the inefficiencies inherent in that were not made up for in S5 sales.  This, together with LG, Xiaomi, Oppo, One +, Sony, etc are the authors of Samsung's woes.
  • Reply 234 of 315
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wisely View Post

     

     

    Be patient.  Wait for the next quarterly results for Samsung, HTC and Sony.  Then compare the results with the current quarter.

     

    Should be quite obvious.


    Sure you will see an increase in iPhone 6/plus numbers, largely due to existing IOS upgraders, covering the holiday season, people buying the plus instead of an iPad and some switchers. I doubt you will see any noticeable swing in the overall global android marketshare which stands around 83% in Q3.  

     

    As for Q4 look at Kantar Worldpanels comments on 6/plus

     

    "Initial sales of the new iPhone models have overwhelmingly been from existing iPhone owners (87%). This is not surprising as consumers who already own Apple products tend to remain loyal and are keen to get their hands on new models. Drawing in customers who are switching from competitor brands is more likely to happen once offers and promotions on the new iPhones start to kick-in."

     

    That leaves 13% out of which we don't know... 

    1. How many were new smartphone users

    2. How many switched from blackberry/Windows/non Android

    3. How many switched from Android

  • Reply 235 of 315
    haarhaar Posts: 563member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Just posted this in a different thread. If you absolutely positively want to keep the government out of your personal phone a pass-code might be a better idea than using Touch ID.

    A US District Judge in Virginia has ruled that while you can't be required to reveal your pass-code to unlock your phone your fingerprint doesn't have the same legal protection. It's fair game and refusing to provide a fingerprint for unlocking may land you in jail. So what's the difference, why is a pass-code secure from law enforcement but TouchID might not be? The Judge opined that collecting a fingerprint is akin to taking a DNA or handwriting sample while revealing a pass-code is offering up personal knowledge.


    ... you are required to have a passcode when you use the TouchID on an iPhone...


    You are correct sir!... so being aware of your surroundings is even more important (meaning knowing when the police is around). so when the "po,po" (police) are near turn off (power down) your phone, thus requiring a passcode. and negating the "thumbprint" avantage that the police have. i believe you are required to enter a passcode upon the phone being powered up.

    BTW, You have noticed the one disadvantage that Apple has with a working fingerprint scanner that Samsung does not have, due to Samsung's "inconvenient" fingerprint scanner...
  • Reply 236 of 315
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

    Sure you will see an increase in iPhone 6/plus numbers, largely due to existing IOS upgraders, covering the holiday season, people buying the plus instead of an iPad and some switchers. I doubt you will see any noticeable swing in the overall global android marketshare which stands around 83% in Q3.  

     


     

    I am not expecting huge swing in Android/ios market shares.  I am asking you to look out for profit numbers.

    I expect Samsung and Sony to lose even more money, another huge profit plunge or consecutive huge profit plunge quarters.

     

    Market shares is an important financial indicators in many industries because these breakdown normally have correlation to profitability and influence. 

     

    Market shares, however, is not useful in the smartphone industry.   The exponential growth of Android phones and Android media players in China can easily tip the market shares towards Android.  But how is this growth useful to Google or western app developers when the Chinese don't use Google services or buy app?  Anyone who wants to pay nothing and ask to pay nothing in Telco shops will be presented with a free Android phone model in China.  These free Android phones are always 100% used for watching TV programmes and downloading free novels/apps and never used to do any google search or online purchase.

     

    When market shares do not translate to profitability or influence, then these numbers do not matter anymore. Google loves to boost about how many activations they had on Android, but it is meaningless when Android phone makers are bleeding to death and all the online surfing and purchase in the developed worlds are dominated by ipad/iphone devices. 

     

    Apple is never into market share.  As it is, they can't even if they want to.  Since the launch of iphone 6/6plus, all the Foxconn/Pegatron and manufacturing capacities are still unable to make enough phones to sell to the whole world.  Analysts are predicting the supply imbalance will last into 2015.  And what do you know? Soon after the supply is able to meet the market demand we have iphone 7 incoming and the whole cycle starts again.

     

    I have never fantasized that Samsung, HTC, Sony and LG's smartphone woes are wholly due to the competition of iphone.

    But given that Samsung, HTC, Sony and LG are fighting among themselves for Android sales and facing high end Chinese models with low price, the introduction of iphone 6/6 plus will hit them harder.

     

    Outside of China, there are 3 types of Android phone users.  First group hate everything Apple.  Second group find their needs better met by Android models.  Last group simply want a screen bigger than 5" for their web browsing, facebook and media consumption. The first 2 groups are not likely to be swayed by the iphone 6/6 plus but will consider Xiaomi (Xiaomi is now selling outside of China too). The last group could be distracted by iphone.

     

    I don't know how big is the make up of the last group but I am predicting it is big enough to affect the high end phone sales of Samsung, Sony and HTC.  High end sales is where Samsong, Sony and HTC expect to make their money or recoup losses.  Sony and HTC are already losing money.  Expect Samsung net profit to be even smaller and heading the same way as Sony and HTC.

     

    Samsung, Sony and HTC have a bleak future.  They have to outdo each other.  Then they are slaughtered by Chinese Android makers at the mid to low end.  At the high end, they have to compete with Apple who has a lot of resources and money to employ the best engineers and innovate.  Android phone makers have to count on 3rd parties to deliver a good OS, a good CPU and to make them work well together.  Apple, on the other hand, is probably already working on iphone 7, iphone 8, A9X, A10X and has the high end market almost to itself.  It is not hard to see how all these are going to end. 

     

    I have 2 good friends who sworn by their Sony smartphones.  I always tell them to consider paying more for their Sony phones.  Otherwise soon they will hear the same announcement about Sony exiting the smartphone markets, after Sony exit the laptop market.

  • Reply 237 of 315
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wisely View Post

     

     

    I am not expecting huge swing in Android/ios market shares.  I am asking you to look out for profit numbers.

     


    If you read back in the thread, I'm not interested in profit numbers. I asked for evidence to back up a posters claim that the large screen 6/plus caused a significant number of people to defect from android.

    We all know Apple makes the most profit, that's not at debate here.

  • Reply 238 of 315
    patpatpat wrote: »
    I asked for evidence to back up a posters claim that the large screen 6/plus caused a significant number of people to defect from android.

    Do you feel that the 4.5"+ Android-based "smartphones" will not suffer as a result of the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus?
  • Reply 239 of 315
    patpatpat wrote: »
    If you read back in the thread, I'm not interested in profit numbers. I asked for evidence to back up a posters claim that the large screen 6/plus caused a significant number of people to defect from android.
    We all know Apple makes the most profit, that's not at debate here.

    Here are the results from Google's own analytics as of September 9th.


    1000


    Note that large starts at around 4.2" and goes to over 7" with Google's typically less than specific classification system. Since I can't break out 7" tablets as a result I'll give it to you. That still only leaves 7.7% for the entire large display category. When this data is updated again in the following months do you think the percentage of Large display sizes will increase or will drop as the smaller Android-based devices continue to sell at their current, profitless rates in developing countries and Samsung et al. struggle to sell premium handsets with larger displays that compete directly with the iPhone even though this trend started happening over a year ago?

    Hint: There is only one logical answer.
  • Reply 240 of 315
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

     

    If you read back in the thread, I'm not interested in profit numbers. I asked for evidence to back up a posters claim that the large screen 6/plus caused a significant number of people to defect from android.

    We all know Apple makes the most profit, that's not at debate here.


     

    Why ask for something that don't exist? 

     

    Firstly, we all know that Samsung and many Android makers don't report their high end unit sales.

    Secondly, for the reporting quarter that we are discussing, iphone 6/6 plus were not even available to most part of the world.

     

    The full impact of iphone 6/6 plus can only be felt in this current quarter which will only be reported in Jan/Feb 2015.

    Unfortunately, come Jan/Feb 2015, no one can give you unit sales evidence since Samsung don't offer the numbers.

     

    As stated in my reply to you, all you can see, is Sony, HTC and Samsung bleeding to death in terms of losing more money (or making even less profit) in the financial report in Jan/Feb 2015.  By then, you could still argue that it was Xiaomi and Chinese android makers that caused the damage.

     

    Personally, I don't care who caused the damage.  I am ok with Android's market shares increasing as long as they are losing money big time trying to race to the bottom.  This proves a point about Android too.

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