Rumor: Apple's "iPad Pro" to be as thin as an iPhone, sport 12.2-inch display & extra speakers

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  • Reply 181 of 261
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     



    None. No.


    Lot's, me. :D 

  • Reply 182 of 261
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,731member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    I just read an article in Forbes about wait times for the iPhone and iPad. iPhone was still 7 to 10 days at most carriers for all models and sizes. No wait time for iPad. I think demand for iPad will continue to slip unless Apple does something to shake up this product line. But when Cook says he's perfectly fine with someone buying an iPhone or Mac instead of an iPad it makes me wonder how committed they are to this product. I don't get the feeling that they really know what to do with iPad. When their biggest selling feature is making at 18% thinner and they spend most of their keynote talking about the camera you get the feeling they're kind of lost. And a bigger screen isn't enough at least not with the current version of iOS for iPad.

    The iPad's success boils down to the apps.  Apple needs to come up with ways to convince developers to not only develops apps for the iPad but re-imagine apps for the iPad environment.  The two examples that were shown at the iPad event are definitely on the right track.  

     

    I mean you might be right, maybe Apple hasn't fully figured out what to do with the iPad or maybe they realize that the iPad may be relegated to a niche status for mainly for business / education / creative professionals.  We'll see.

  • Reply 183 of 261
    I agree with all that ... except, maybe TS's OS Xi should be OS iX or iOSX :D

    I would add the importance of the Apple/IBM partnership and its effect on OS X and iOS programming by enterprise IT programmers.


    I think your timetable of two years is too conservative. By this time next year we should have:
    • A9X APU -- More Power (CPU. GPU), more RAM (and/or SRAM),
    • Xcode 7 -- more common iOS and OS X APIs, enhanced Storyboards, common codebase for iOS and OS X apps
    • Swift maturation and experience -- proven productivity benefits
    • Advanced Security -- TouchID on every appropriate device


    I think that this is part of a long-term master plan -- For example Swift was introduced this June ... Chris Lattner was hired in 2005 and built the llvm/clang components that underpins Swift (which was begun in 2010).


    All the Surface is going to [try to] accomplish is to drag the bloat-laden and productivity-limiited past -- kicking and screaming into the future ... It makes about as much sense as a Telegram does in the age of Tweets.


    I think the devices and operating systems are essentially ready now. In my opinion the last hurdle is developers and consumers. Will developers create the feature-rich, desktop-class apps consumers deserve at an acceptable price for consumers and will consumers reward those developers?
  • Reply 184 of 261
    Ya' wanna' see sumpin' ...

    To me this just amazing!

    I wrote an OS X app that displays this:

    [IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/51862/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]


    Here's the Swift code for the app:

    [CODE]

    //
    // AppDelegate.swift
    //

    import Cocoa

    @NSApplicationMain
    class AppDelegate: NSObject, NSApplicationDelegate {

    func applicationDidFinishLaunching(aNotification: NSNotification) {
    // Insert code here to initialize your application
    }

    func applicationWillTerminate(aNotification: NSNotification) {
    // Insert code here to tear down your application
    }
    }



    //
    // Recipe.swift
    //

    import Foundation

    class Recipe: NSObject {

    var name : String
    var rating : Float
    var category : String
    var cuisine : String
    var source : String

    init (name : String, rating : Float, category : String, cuisine : String, source : String) {
    self.name = name
    self.rating = rating
    self.category = category
    self.cuisine = cuisine
    self.source = source
    }
    }


    //
    // MyViewController.swift
    //

    import Cocoa

    class ViewController: NSViewController
    {
    // An instance of a Recipe Record of the format
    var aRecipe = Recipe(name: "", rating: 0, category: "", cuisine: "", source: "")

    // An Array of Recipie Records to display in a table
    var tableArray = NSMutableArray()

    override func viewDidLoad() {
    super.viewDidLoad()

    // Prime Recipe Records and add to Table Array
    aRecipe = Recipe(name: "\"Hooker's\" Pasta", rating: 4.5, category: "entree", cuisine: "Italian", source: "Frugel Gormet")
    self.tableArray.addObject(aRecipe)
    aRecipe = Recipe(name: "Linguini with Clam Sauce", rating: 5.0, category: "entree", cuisine: "Italian", source: "Frugel Gormet")
    self.tableArray.addObject(aRecipe)
    aRecipe = Recipe(name: "Beef Wellington", rating: 4.5, category: "entree", cuisine: "English", source: "Frugel Gormet")
    self.tableArray.addObject(aRecipe)
    aRecipe = Recipe(name: "Escargot", rating: 4.0, category: "appetizer", cuisine: "French", source: "Julia Child")
    self.tableArray.addObject(aRecipe)
    aRecipe = Recipe(name: "Gazpacho", rating: 4.5, category: "entree", cuisine: "Spanish", source: "Earl Payroux")
    self.tableArray.addObject(aRecipe)
    }
    }

    [/CODE]


    Pretty simple stuff, really -- three classes:

    [LIST=1]
    [*] AppDelegate -- unmodified -- as generated by XCode
    [*] Recipe -- a Class I wrote to define and Initialize a Recipe Record
    [*] ViewController -- A class generated by XCode -- I added the code to prime the Recipe records table when the View loads
    [*]
    [/LIST]

    That's it as far as writing code.

    Wha ... Is that all there is ... isn't something missing?

    Yes, something is missing! It's the layout of the Window, its various components and how they interact with each other and the underlying code.

    In the early days, you could graphically define the way the Window looked -- but had to write "glue" code to make things happen -- for example to sort and redisplay a table column.

    Today, with XCode 6, we can create a visual "Storyboard" to define how [XCode should make] things look -- and "Bindings" to tell XCode to generate the invisible "glue" code to make things happen,.

    here's the Storyboard for the above app.


    [IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/51865/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]


    And, here's some of what the Storyboard/Bindings have done under the covers -- [B][I][COLOR=blue]without ever having to write a line of code:[/COLOR][/I][/B]


    [IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/51863/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]


    Notice that the user has moved the columns around, resized them, sorted them, redisplayed them and even updated the data in a column. The "Rating" column is a Float value -- it is displayed and updated as a String -- but sorted and saved as a Float ... Bindings handles that automatically!


    That's productivity! Let the computer do the grunt work!


    It isn't perfect, yet ... but it's getting there! For example you can't access Storyboards/Bindings form the Interactive Swift Playgrounds ... And Bindings need be reorganized and tweaked for easier specification ...


    But, not counting blank lines and comments that's[B][I] less than [COLOR=blue]40 lines of code[/COLOR] to write the app![/I][/B]

    We could even save a few lines of code by reading a file stored in the app -- or downloading it from the web ...

    FWIW, here's the console log of the time it takes to download, prime the table of 13,858 5-column Recipe Records:

    [CODE]
    ViewController: 33: viewDidLoad()
    ViewController: 57: viewDidLoad() Download time: 0.0511760115623474 sec for 174871 chaeacters
    ViewController: 58: viewDidLoad() Parse Array time: 0.00537896156311035 sec for 13858 records
    ViewController: 59: viewDidLoad() Parse Matrix time: 0.199942052364349 sec for 13858 records
    ViewController: 60: viewDidLoad() Total Time: 0.256497025489807 sec
    [/CODE]
  • Reply 185 of 261
    Oh, no. iOS will always be iOS and OS X will evolve into OS XI. I figure the main convergence will come from the means of interaction. Desktop multitouch can’t be handled in the same way as a cursor+keyboard OS, just as the latter wasn’t the same as the Apple ][’s UI.

    There are things the iPhone and small iPads won’t do because 1. they just can’t and 2. they aren’t large enough to make it happen well. And OS XI will be great on the desktop, but many things won’t make much sense portably.

    I believe you may have missed the sentence below which I have now emphasized.


    There definitely are issues to resolve.

    I believe Tallest Skill is correct in speaking about "convergence" of iOS and OS X as OS Xi; i.e. I believe that most of the remaining issues could be resolved within two years. While I am uncertain the two operating systems will actually converge, the two operating systems are undeniably converging in features.

    Desktop class performance - Check (64-bit architecture, processing power)
    Desktop class apps - In progress (Apple has provided developers with the right tools - Grand Central Dispatch, Metal, OpenCL, Swift)


    The point is that anyone suggesting that Microsoft Surface is the answer is a fool.
  • Reply 186 of 261
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    canukstorm wrote: »
    The iPad's success boils down to the apps.  Apple needs to come up with ways to convince developers to not only develops apps for the iPad but re-imagine apps for the iPad environment.  The two examples that were shown at the iPad event are definitely on the right track.  

    I mean you might be right, maybe Apple hasn't fully figured out what to do with the iPad or maybe they realize that the iPad may be relegated to a niche status for mainly for business / education / creative professionals.  We'll see.

    As long as iPhone is the cash cow and Macs seem to hum along I fear Apple doesn't have much incentive or urgency to shake up iPad. At the WSJD conference Tim Cook said iPhone would be the significant driver of Apple's revenue for the next 5 years at least. Personally I would like to see less reliance on iPhone as I think it's unhealthy for one product to drive the majority of revenues.
  • Reply 187 of 261
    rogifan wrote: »
    canukstorm wrote: »
    The iPad's success boils down to the apps.  Apple needs to come up with ways to convince developers to not only develops apps for the iPad but re-imagine apps for the iPad environment.  The two examples that were shown at the iPad event are definitely on the right track.  

    I mean you might be right, maybe Apple hasn't fully figured out what to do with the iPad or maybe they realize that the iPad may be relegated to a niche status for mainly for business / education / creative professionals.  We'll see.

    As long as iPhone is the cash cow and Macs seem to hum along I fear Apple doesn't have much incentive or urgency to shake up iPad. At the WSJD conference Tim Cook said iPhone would be the significant driver of Apple's revenue for the next 5 years at least. Personally I would like to see less reliance on iPhone as I think it's unhealthy for one product to drive the majority of revenues.

    Don't believe TC any more than SJ -- when telling people what they want to hear!
  • Reply 188 of 261
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,731member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    As long as iPhone is the cash cow and Macs seem to hum along I fear Apple doesn't have much incentive or urgency to shake up iPad. At the WSJD conference Tim Cook said iPhone would be the significant driver of Apple's revenue for the next 5 years at least. Personally I would like to see less reliance on iPhone as I think it's unhealthy for one product to drive the majority of revenues.

    The smartphone market, in terms of sheer size, is head and shoulders bigger than the tablet or PC market, so I'm not surprised about the iPhone remark.  But you make a good point, it is risky.  That's why Apple can't rest on their laurels and ensure that the iPhone is the most desirable smartphone.  Hence the expansion into the wearables market.

  • Reply 189 of 261
    I agree with all that ... except, maybe TS's OS Xi should be OS iX or iOSX :D

    I would add the importance of the Apple/IBM partnership and its effect on OS X and iOS programming by enterprise IT programmers.


    I think your timetable of two years is too conservative. By this time next year we should have:
    • A9X APU -- More Power (CPU. GPU), more RAM (and/or SRAM),
    • Xcode 7 -- more common iOS and OS X APIs, enhanced Storyboards, common codebase for iOS and OS X apps
    • Swift maturation and experience -- proven productivity benefits
    • Advanced Security -- TouchID on every appropriate device


    I think that this is part of a long-term master plan -- For example Swift was introduced this June ... Chris Lattner was hired in 2005 and built the llvm/clang components that underpins Swift (which was begun in 2010).


    All the Surface is going to [try to] accomplish is to drag the bloat-laden and productivity-limiited past -- kicking and screaming into the future ... It makes about as much sense as a Telegram does in the age of Tweets.


    I think the devices and operating systems are essentially ready now. In my opinion the last hurdle is developers and consumers. Will developers create the feature-rich, desktop-class apps consumers deserve at an acceptable price for consumers and will consumers reward those developers?

    I mostly agree about the hardware -- except we haven't seen a teardown/layout of the A8X -- we think there are 3 CPU cores and 2 GB RAM ... But there may be other things on the chip -- Bigger SRAM caches, DSPs for media conversion/manipulation ... There may be more than meets the eye.

    As far as developers, Xcode and Swift are key, IMO. I think that both need another year to reach their full potential.

    In the post after yours, I show how productive a developer can be writing an app using Swift and Storyboards/Bindings ...

    All well and good, but it was painfully slow finding out how to do this ... No real documentation, Code Examples that work on one release of XCode but not on the next, changes to the Swift language, itself ... no experienced experts from which to get answers ...

    It's a mess ... But it's the best mess in town!

    I give it 6-8 months before we start seeing the benefits ... then, Le Deluge!
  • Reply 190 of 261
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    I just read an article in Forbes about wait times for the iPhone and iPad. iPhone was still 7 to 10 days at most carriers for all models and sizes. No wait time for iPad. I think demand for iPad will continue to slip unless Apple does something to shake up this product line. But when Cook says he's perfectly fine with someone buying an iPhone or Mac instead of an iPad it makes me wonder how committed they are to this product. I don't get the feeling that they really know what to do with iPad. When their biggest selling feature is making at 18% thinner and they spend most of their keynote talking about the camera you get the feeling they're kind of lost. And a bigger screen isn't enough at least not with the current version of iOS for iPad.



    I don't agree that Apple is letting the iPad languish or that it the deceleration in sales is a sign of waning interest. I think it shows the opposite, rather just how quickly it became a huge success, combined with the fact that the upgrade cycle is probably even longer than the PC market. (I have an iPad 3 and it still works terrifically well). I also think there was a pent up demand for Touch ID on the iPad. A larger screen will be huge, especially if combined with some additional features, like split screen, Metal, and an advanced stylus, that will open up a large range of advanced functionality. Apple is already testing several versions of iOS 8 in the wild, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the apps being developed with IBM are going to incorporate stylus input for greater efficiency with fine control (I think the newly laminated screen is highly suggestive of this occurring sooner rather than later), and no need to break out the sandpaper!

  • Reply 191 of 261
    rogifan wrote: »
    I just read an article in Forbes about wait times for the iPhone and iPad. iPhone was still 7 to 10 days at most carriers for all models and sizes. No wait time for iPad. I think demand for iPad will continue to slip unless Apple does something to shake up this product line. But when Cook says he's perfectly fine with someone buying an iPhone or Mac instead of an iPad it makes me wonder how committed they are to this product. I don't get the feeling that they really know what to do with iPad. When their biggest selling feature is making at 18% thinner and they spend most of their keynote talking about the camera you get the feeling they're kind of lost. And a bigger screen isn't enough at least not with the current version of iOS for iPad.


    I don't agree that Apple is letting the iPad languish or that it the deceleration in sales is a sign of waning interest. I think it shows the opposite, rather just how quickly it became a huge success, combined with the fact that the upgrade cycle is probably even longer than the PC market. (I have an iPad 3 and it still works terrifically well). I also think there was a pent up demand for Touch ID on the iPad. A larger screen will be huge, especially if combined with some additional features, like split screen, Metal, and an advanced stylus, that will open up a large range of advanced functionality. Apple is already testing several versions of iOS 8 in the wild, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the apps being developed with IBM are going to incorporate stylus input for greater efficiency with fine control (I think the newly laminated screen is highly suggestive of this occurring sooner rather than later), and no need to break out the sandpaper!

    Yes!

    And don't forget about the humble AppleTV. It is an excellent presentation vehicle for enterprise (as well as consumers) anytime the need exceeds the one-on-one presentation capability of the iPad. I suspect that a new AppleTV with A8X is coming and that the Apple/IBM partnership will have asset to the APIs.
  • Reply 192 of 261
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





    Yes!



    And don't forget about the humble AppleTV. It is an excellent presentation vehicle for enterprise (as well as consumers) anytime the need exceeds the one-on-one presentation capability of the iPad. I suspect that a new AppleTV with A8X is coming and that the Apple/IBM partnership will have asset to the APIs.

     

    Good point!

     

    It doesn't seem Apple has yet given the peer-to-peer wifi capability the attention it deserves. I'm scheduled to give a lecture in the coming months, and I'm looking forward to bringing in my Apple TV to enlighten my colleagues to the wonderful simplicity and ease of use that Apple provides :) (with no Mcafee update warnings or shoddy wifi networks to be concerned about). Better yet, if Apple Watch comes out in time!

  • Reply 193 of 261
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,386member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    And it does. In the form of trackpad gestures. Anything more is an entirely new UX.

     

    Because this is utter nonsense that goes against their fundamental values and I’ve only ever been wrong about trifles.


     

    Nope. The only "fundamental value" that Apple has is to make excellent products. Everything else more specific for that is dynamic, and subject to change if that's called for. You also stated that Apple would never produce a "phablet" phone that doesnt fit in the hand, because that was also a "fundamental value". No, it wasn't. 

     

    If they can get OSX to work reasonably well with touch input, then it will happen. The UI in Yosemite is already alot more touch friendly, as are Apple's 1st party applications. I'm not saying they should just slap a touchscreen on their laptops. I'm saying that there's a very real possibility that OSX will support touch on some future, hybrid device. 

  • Reply 194 of 261
    droidftwdroidftw Posts: 1,009member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



    It's a mess ... But it's the best mess in town!

     

    I've heard that Swift has some major speed issues compared to other programming languages when doing simple things like sorting.  As you seem to really like Swift, have you done any performance comparisons yourself?

  • Reply 195 of 261
    "measuring somewhere between the iPhone 6's 6.9mm and the iPhone 6 Pro's 7.1mm at its thickest point. "

    WTF is an iPhone 6 Pro and where can I get one?????
  • Reply 196 of 261
    I've had a stylus for my iPads for years. $6 at Amazon.
  • Reply 197 of 261
    droidftw wrote: »
    It's a mess ... But it's the best mess in town!

    I've heard that Swift has some major speed issues compared to other programming languages when doing simple things like sorting.  As you seem to really like Swift, have you done any performance comparisons yourself?

    Several things:

    1. It was Taylor Swift -- she gave a bad performance on live TV :D
    2. the performance problems were reported in a very early beta inplemendation of Swift -- not unusual or unexpected
    3. the Swift performance tests were made with minimal compiler optimizations -- contained a lot of debugging overhead
    4. the internal Swift sort was rewritten with performance in mind


    tl;dr Swift is now as fast as C by this benchmark using the default release optimisation level [-O].

    Here is an in-place quicksort in Swift ... :

    http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24101718/swift-performance-sorting-arrays
  • Reply 198 of 261
    shsfshsf Posts: 302member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

     

     

    I've heard that Swift has some major speed issues compared to other programming languages when doing simple things like sorting.  As you seem to really like Swift, have you done any performance comparisons yourself?


     

    Teething problem now sorted:

     

    http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24101718/swift-performance-sorting-arrays

     

    Quote:


     

     These issues (as well as some other performance issues) seems to have been fixed in Xcode 6 beta 5.

    For sorting, I now have the following timings:


    • clang++ -O3: 0.06 s

    • swiftc -Ofast: 0.1 s

    • swiftc -O: 0.1 s

    • swiftc: 4 s

    For nested loops:


    • clang++ -O3: 0.06 s

    • swiftc -Ofast: 0.3 s

    • swiftc -O: 0.4 s

    • swiftc: 540 s

    It seems that there is no reason anymore to use the unsafe -Ofast (a.k.a. -Ounchecked); plain -Oproduces equally good code.

     




  • Reply 199 of 261
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

    If they can get OSX to work reasonably well with touch input, then it will happen.


     

    Corollary: If they could, it would’ve happened already

     

    Semi-corollary: They did already. It’s called iOS now.

     

    The UI in Yosemite is already alot more touch friendly, as are Apple's 1st party applications.


     

    Sure! Because THIS is the gradual path toward a multitouch desktop UI. I just don’t think it’ll be called OS X in any way, shape, or form, just like I don’t think that the computers that will be multitouch will be called Macintosh.

  • Reply 200 of 261
    mr. h wrote: »
    I am so tempted to get a Surface Pro 3.

    I have an SP3. It's an unmitigated disaster of dizzying proportions. There's simply no way for me to communicate to you just how terrible those things are. In. Every. Way.

    I got mine free, from the Borg. It only has MS software on it...well and Photoshop. It's a mess from the first second you turn it on. The startup graphic is corrupt. It hard freezes CONSTANTLY, requiring a reboot into a command line diagnostic screen.

    The only reason it has a stylus is because the screen resolution makes interface elements too small for your fingers. So you have no choice but to use a stylus in place of your finger. Oh yeah, and that stylus uses a AAAA battery which you can't buy anywhere. So have fun when your stylus dies.

    We have 2 floors full of people who have SP3s, and after the first month, nobody ever touched theirs. IT even hates them.

    Of course I'll tell you this, and you'll buy one anyways thinking I'm just a fanboy or a squeaky wheel. Then you'll figure out its one of the worst pieces of technology on planet earth.
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