The bible says homosexuality is sin. God created man and woman to be together. Wether it's 2014 or the dawn of man, that is simply so.
While I don't approve of Tim Cooks choices, God loves him no less.
Everyone gives account for their life when it is over. Time will have His day too. Until that day, the Lord will extend grace and mercy and opportunity to be forgiven, clean, and in right relationship with The God who made him. But the choice will always be Tims to make.
I am always sad to see the name calling, the insults, and even the violent protests. It's never right, no matter what the case.
That said, every human has a choice to make for themselves. Tim Cook has made his choices. So be it.
I respect him as not only a businessman, but he actually does seem to be a genuinely nice guy and is making the right choices to actually help the people he serves as well as those he serves with.
He decided to announce his preference to the world. So be it. He has a platform and he used it. For better or for worse.
While I don't see the "brick" he used as anything related to justice (being good versus evil and right from wrong), it was definitely a reminder to the world that FREEDOM is alive and well in the USA. I don't believe the man is a hero for his announcement. But he is no villain. He simply stated the truth.
Your marriage probably has no meaning, but two members of the same sex getting hitched only devalues your bigotry, not your marriage.
I agree with what you wrote about marriage between same sexed people. I just can't see the bigotry in his comments. Those were well reasoned musings and questions to ponder... not declarations of judgments.
You mean the book written and rewritten by man? The book that contradicts itself constantly? The book that you and everyone else has to cherry pick verses because to adhering to the literal word is impossible? That book? :rolleyes:
God created man and woman to be together. Wether it's 2014 or the dawn of man, that is simply so.
Um, no. The very nature of your belief system means you can't prove your position which means it's not simply so.
That said, every human has a choice to make for themselves. Tim Cook has made his choices. So be it.
So you choose to not be a homosexual? Please explain when and how you came to this conclusion to choose to be heterosexual?
I respect him as not only a businessman, but he actually does seem to be a genuinely nice guy and is making the right choices to actually help the people he serves as well as those he serves with.
But he's going hell for his choice to be gay, nonetheless?
He decided to announce his preference to the world. So be it. He has a platform and he used it. For better or for worse.
That term preference is an odd one. I never hear homophobic people talking about how they prefer to be naturally attracted to women but will make an alternate choice the way I may choose a plain bagel if the bakery is out of my preferred onion bagels.
While I don't see the "brick" he used as anything related to justice (being good versus evil and right from wrong),
Really? You don't see any justice is standing up for civil liberties? Remember when people used to stand behind the bible as proof that other religions and "races" are inferior? Remember when they then made asinine comments about how that inferior stock was fine so long as they didn't interbreed with my superior people? I remember like it still exists.
it was definitely a reminder to the world that FREEDOM is alive and well in the USA. I don't believe the man is a hero for his announcement. But he is no villain. He simply stated the truth.
You end with a much more balanced comment than you started, so how to reconcile that against your previous comments in this post?
If he can't understand that the reason gay people are proud, and straight people aren't, is because gays have been told that they are less than, evil, less worthy and many other nasty things their whole lives. Breaking off the shame of what others would have you think and embracing what you are is a long, arduous process. You can be proud of being straight if you so chose, but society will never have questioned that aspect of you. So, being proud of being gay does not mean you are proud to have sex, it means being proud of the way God made you despite the challenges that it has and will always bring.
t's all very confusing to me and I cannot imagine how it would be to be a child growing up in an overtly sexualised world to be faced with these issues that no one wants to talk about.
1) Only children that are taught to hate are later confused adults when society starts to learn to see others as human beings. This is no different than any other time in history when a group previously demonized by the ignorant elite have to learn to shed some of their earliest teachings.
2) What does overtly sexualized mean? I am sure you see a more openly heterosexual couples expressing their love for each other on a daily basis.
Tim Cook did not ask nor seeks your approval. That's the whole point. His essay is building the "sunlit path" by exposing visibility, creating conversation, and giving hope to those who have been told time and again this silly oxymoron that the way God made them is against God's will.
The bible says homosexuality is sin. God created man and woman to be together. Wether it's 2014 or the dawn of man, that is simply so.
While I don't approve of Tim Cooks choices, God loves him no less.
Let's pass over Leviticus as it was a list of rules for the male Levites, and not for the other tribes, and look at what Paul wrote on homosexuality. Paul, not God, wrote of homosexuality, drunkeness and gambling in the same breath. Each equally harmful to one's godliness. I wonder exactly what Paul had in mind while writing those lines? Could he have been writing about addictions to sex, drinking and gambling?
It may not have anything to do with same sex love, but the dangers of being caught up in addictions of any kind.
Finally, if I understand attraction to same sex people correctly, it's not a choice, as you put it, but a soul-deep attraction. I am a male attracted to females. It's always been that way. It's never been a choice to me to want to be with a woman since it was built in to my soul... I can't even imagine how I could "choose" to feel differently.
I'm am having a bit of difficulty in trying to work out what it is that you are trying to say. 'Thinking' is what I do, I can't help it. As the great physicist Richard Feynman says, "I can't help thinking, I get a kick out of it". I have a love of clarity because without clarity there is no understanding and without understanding there is no knowledge. This necessarily requires precision with words. Sometimes it's important other times less so, depending on what is being said, and by whom. Saying that I am 'awash with words and [their] significance' does not have any meaning for me.
'Love' is indeed the only emotion and every other emotion like hate, anger or jealousy for example, is but a perversion of love. Correct me if I am wrong but are you simply wanting to brush any significance that Tim Cook's official coming out may have (albeit in a small way) on impressionable young teens and their inevitable struggle with their own sexuality, aside. Do you wish that so called adults should abrogate their responsibilities to the coming generation. Because I think there are very serious issues regarding sex and sexuality in a world where the internet has turned Earth into a global village, that are not being addressed by so called adults who in my view are on the whole emotionally crippled children themselves.
One inevitable result of Tim Cook's coming out, and his subsequent silence on the issue, is that it gives homophobic governments like Russia, or dubious religious authorities, traction that they do not deserve.
You're gonna make us talk about butt stuff aren't ya?
t's all very confusing to me and I cannot imagine how it would be to be a child growing up in an overtly sexualised world to be faced with these issues that no one wants to talk about.
1) Only children that are taught to hate are later confused adults when society starts to learn to see others as human beings. This is no different than any other time in history when a group previously demonized by the ignorant elite have to learn to shed some of their earliest teachings.
2) What does overtly sexualized mean? I am sure you see a more openly heterosexual couples expressing their love for each other on a daily basis.
Re. your first point: I don't think I was taught to hate as a child. There was just a vacuum in my knowledge.
Re. your second point: I took it to mean how much more overt sexuality is today as compared to the pre-internet days. It's interesting how you found a different interpretation. I'm neither right nor do I think you're wrong. It's just interesting how we both may have gotten it wrong from what the writer may have meant.
If you've read any analysis of the impact of Tim's 'coming out', you will see, e.g., suicide rates among young gay men is several times that of heteros. Cook statements are beautifully crafted and positive. If it saves just a few from going down that path or cheers the lives of those crippled with self doubt, it would be well worth giving Tim a big cheer. It's about doing the right thing.
== (WP) The Suicide Prevention Resource Center synthesized these studies and estimated that between 30 and 40% of LGBT youth, depending on age and sex groups, have attempted suicide.
Re. your first point: I don't think I was taught to hate as a child. There was just a vacuum in my knowledge.
It may not have been overtly hatredized but I have to assume you were told it was wrong from an early age. Is there any religion that doesn't look at the natural ways in which the species procreates as the only natural way in which an individual born into that species is to exist despite the wealth of modern knowledge regarding how the sexual organs develop?
Re. your second point: I took it to mean how much more overt sexuality is today as compared to the pre-internet days. It's interesting how you found a different interpretation. I'm neither right nor do I think you're wrong. It's just interesting how we both may have gotten it wrong from what the writer may have meant.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by your definition. The internet surely makes sexual acts much easier to find but sexuality seems just as plain as it's always been. I say just as plain because homosexuals are now more overt but the division of genders, even without heterosexuals, has been less plain. I'd say that's a wash. To put it to a hypothetical test, say you took the TARDIS to any time and culture in history. Could you not easily point out which individuals likely had the male sex organs and which had the female sex organs on first glance? Could you not easily see interactions between boys, girls, men and women to know which were betrothed, which were attracted to another, and so on? I think it would be pretty clear.
"Nobody cares"? Really? Is that why literally every article about the annoucement I've read on major sites has THOUSANDS of comments, even Apple fan sites?
You don't care. I don't care. Many others don't also. But to pretend "nobody" cares, and that it's a complete non-issue to everyone, is simply empirically false.
As for why he chose now to come out, there's probably hundreds of factors, but as I see it here are the 2 main ones:
1. He believed the threshold has been reached where this would not damage Apple. If he believed for a second it would harm the company or the brand, he never would have done it.
2. He truly believes (rightfully) and this announcement would help other gay people. motivate them, and inspire them, not to mention help in furthering equality laws.
Also, who the **** is this Gage guy, and why does such a piece of shit have 45,000 followers? "Abomination" indeed.
The bible says homosexuality is sin. God created man and woman to be together. Wether it's 2014 or the dawn of man, that is simply so.
While I don't approve of Tim Cooks choices, God loves him no less.
Everyone gives account for their life when it is over. Time will have His day too. Until that day, the Lord will extend grace and mercy and opportunity to be forgiven, clean, and in right relationship with The God who made him. But the choice will always be Tims to make.
I am always sad to see the name calling, the insults, and even the violent protests. It's never right, no matter what the case.
That said, every human has a choice to make for themselves. Tim Cook has made his choices. So be it.
I respect him as not only a businessman, but he actually does seem to be a genuinely nice guy and is making the right choices to actually help the people he serves as well as those he serves with.
He decided to announce his preference to the world. So be it. He has a platform and he used it. For better or for worse.
While I don't see the "brick" he used as anything related to justice (being good versus evil and right from wrong), it was definitely a reminder to the world that FREEDOM is alive and well in the USA. I don't believe the man is a hero for his announcement. But he is no villain. He simply stated the truth.
Using the bible to prove a Christian viewpoint is like going to Samsung's website to find out why their phones are better than iPhones.
Regarding whether it's ok for a straight man to say he's "proud not to be gay".. That's the most stupid thing. Who even said that? It's just driving his anti gay agenda further. Tim has in no way expressed an anti straight agenda. Be proud of what you are. Not of what you are not. If you're proud to be straight, and reflect over insight of taking part in the circle of life, or whatever it is you feel. Yeah cool. Express your pride.
"It troubles me how very young children will come to think about relationships and what criteria they themselves will use to decide if they are in fact 'gay' if respected people like Cook decide to be 'proud' about it but then become overtly coy. If he's going to make a big deal about it, is it reasonable for an interviewer to ask him if he has anal sex with his partner or does that then become a matter of privacy."
It's almost 2015 dude, nobody 'decides' to be gay. And how you make the mental jump from someone coming out as license to ask them about their specific sexual practices is offensive. Do you ask heterosexuals who just got married if they have anal sex since they just "made a big deal" of it?
Unless someone here wants to define it otherwise, 'gay' is a lifestyle choice. And if anyone like myself wants to bring up particular issues that may not sit well with your prepared clichés about murdered babies and religious intolerance then I'm met with a torrent of anger. Which says more about you than it does about me.
Stop reading bronze age superstition and misunderstanding and read more modern texts.
Modern scientific writing covers many of the concerns of the past but with evidence and assurance to back it up.
Human evolution (amongst many other things ) is proven by irrefutable physical evidence
Why otherwise intelligent people insist on continuing to 'believe' the ideas fears and predudice of a bronze age middle eastern country is baffling.
[QUOTE]Since his disclosure, Cook's "rhino skin" has been poked at by Gyrostigma rhinocerontis, the botflies of the world that have lives dedicated to burrowing under the thick skins of rhinos and living a life cycle that plagues the animals's stomaches before the parasites' barbed larvae are excreted out to continue their cycle of torment in successive generations.[/QUOTE]
What a revolting analogy. This is a horrible thread.
Comments
While I don't approve of Tim Cooks choices, God loves him no less.
Everyone gives account for their life when it is over. Time will have His day too. Until that day, the Lord will extend grace and mercy and opportunity to be forgiven, clean, and in right relationship with The God who made him. But the choice will always be Tims to make.
I am always sad to see the name calling, the insults, and even the violent protests. It's never right, no matter what the case.
That said, every human has a choice to make for themselves. Tim Cook has made his choices. So be it.
I respect him as not only a businessman, but he actually does seem to be a genuinely nice guy and is making the right choices to actually help the people he serves as well as those he serves with.
He decided to announce his preference to the world. So be it. He has a platform and he used it. For better or for worse.
While I don't see the "brick" he used as anything related to justice (being good versus evil and right from wrong), it was definitely a reminder to the world that FREEDOM is alive and well in the USA. I don't believe the man is a hero for his announcement. But he is no villain. He simply stated the truth.
I agree with what you wrote about marriage between same sexed people. I just can't see the bigotry in his comments. Those were well reasoned musings and questions to ponder... not declarations of judgments.
Thanks, Tim! The ignorant are a dying breed.
Sadly not.
You mean the book written and rewritten by man? The book that contradicts itself constantly? The book that you and everyone else has to cherry pick verses because to adhering to the literal word is impossible? That book? :rolleyes:
Um, no. The very nature of your belief system means you can't prove your position which means it's not simply so.
So you choose to not be a homosexual? Please explain when and how you came to this conclusion to choose to be heterosexual?
But he's going hell for his choice to be gay, nonetheless?
That term preference is an odd one. I never hear homophobic people talking about how they prefer to be naturally attracted to women but will make an alternate choice the way I may choose a plain bagel if the bakery is out of my preferred onion bagels.
Really? You don't see any justice is standing up for civil liberties? Remember when people used to stand behind the bible as proof that other religions and "races" are inferior? Remember when they then made asinine comments about how that inferior stock was fine so long as they didn't interbreed with my superior people? I remember like it still exists.
You end with a much more balanced comment than you started, so how to reconcile that against your previous comments in this post?
1) Only children that are taught to hate are later confused adults when society starts to learn to see others as human beings. This is no different than any other time in history when a group previously demonized by the ignorant elite have to learn to shed some of their earliest teachings.
2) What does overtly sexualized mean? I am sure you see a more openly heterosexual couples expressing their love for each other on a daily basis.
Let's pass over Leviticus as it was a list of rules for the male Levites, and not for the other tribes, and look at what Paul wrote on homosexuality. Paul, not God, wrote of homosexuality, drunkeness and gambling in the same breath. Each equally harmful to one's godliness. I wonder exactly what Paul had in mind while writing those lines? Could he have been writing about addictions to sex, drinking and gambling?
It may not have anything to do with same sex love, but the dangers of being caught up in addictions of any kind.
Finally, if I understand attraction to same sex people correctly, it's not a choice, as you put it, but a soul-deep attraction. I am a male attracted to females. It's always been that way. It's never been a choice to me to want to be with a woman since it was built in to my soul... I can't even imagine how I could "choose" to feel differently.
You're gonna make us talk about butt stuff aren't ya?
Re. your first point: I don't think I was taught to hate as a child. There was just a vacuum in my knowledge.
Re. your second point: I took it to mean how much more overt sexuality is today as compared to the pre-internet days. It's interesting how you found a different interpretation. I'm neither right nor do I think you're wrong. It's just interesting how we both may have gotten it wrong from what the writer may have meant.
If you've read any analysis of the impact of Tim's 'coming out', you will see, e.g., suicide rates among young gay men is several times that of heteros. Cook statements are beautifully crafted and positive. If it saves just a few from going down that path or cheers the lives of those crippled with self doubt, it would be well worth giving Tim a big cheer. It's about doing the right thing.
==
(WP) The Suicide Prevention Resource Center synthesized these studies and estimated that between 30 and 40% of LGBT youth, depending on age and sex groups, have attempted suicide.
It may not have been overtly hatredized but I have to assume you were told it was wrong from an early age. Is there any religion that doesn't look at the natural ways in which the species procreates as the only natural way in which an individual born into that species is to exist despite the wealth of modern knowledge regarding how the sexual organs develop?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by your definition. The internet surely makes sexual acts much easier to find but sexuality seems just as plain as it's always been. I say just as plain because homosexuals are now more overt but the division of genders, even without heterosexuals, has been less plain. I'd say that's a wash. To put it to a hypothetical test, say you took the TARDIS to any time and culture in history. Could you not easily point out which individuals likely had the male sex organs and which had the female sex organs on first glance? Could you not easily see interactions between boys, girls, men and women to know which were betrothed, which were attracted to another, and so on? I think it would be pretty clear.
What issue? Nobody cares. It's so not important.
"Nobody cares"? Really? Is that why literally every article about the annoucement I've read on major sites has THOUSANDS of comments, even Apple fan sites?
You don't care. I don't care. Many others don't also. But to pretend "nobody" cares, and that it's a complete non-issue to everyone, is simply empirically false.
As for why he chose now to come out, there's probably hundreds of factors, but as I see it here are the 2 main ones:
1. He believed the threshold has been reached where this would not damage Apple. If he believed for a second it would harm the company or the brand, he never would have done it.
2. He truly believes (rightfully) and this announcement would help other gay people. motivate them, and inspire them, not to mention help in furthering equality laws.
Also, who the **** is this Gage guy, and why does such a piece of shit have 45,000 followers? "Abomination" indeed.
The bible says homosexuality is sin. God created man and woman to be together. Wether it's 2014 or the dawn of man, that is simply so.
While I don't approve of Tim Cooks choices, God loves him no less.
Everyone gives account for their life when it is over. Time will have His day too. Until that day, the Lord will extend grace and mercy and opportunity to be forgiven, clean, and in right relationship with The God who made him. But the choice will always be Tims to make.
I am always sad to see the name calling, the insults, and even the violent protests. It's never right, no matter what the case.
That said, every human has a choice to make for themselves. Tim Cook has made his choices. So be it.
I respect him as not only a businessman, but he actually does seem to be a genuinely nice guy and is making the right choices to actually help the people he serves as well as those he serves with.
He decided to announce his preference to the world. So be it. He has a platform and he used it. For better or for worse.
While I don't see the "brick" he used as anything related to justice (being good versus evil and right from wrong), it was definitely a reminder to the world that FREEDOM is alive and well in the USA. I don't believe the man is a hero for his announcement. But he is no villain. He simply stated the truth.
Using the bible to prove a Christian viewpoint is like going to Samsung's website to find out why their phones are better than iPhones.
It's almost 2015 dude, nobody 'decides' to be gay. And how you make the mental jump from someone coming out as license to ask them about their specific sexual practices is offensive. Do you ask heterosexuals who just got married if they have anal sex since they just "made a big deal" of it?
Unless someone here wants to define it otherwise, 'gay' is a lifestyle choice. And if anyone like myself wants to bring up particular issues that may not sit well with your prepared clichés about murdered babies and religious intolerance then I'm met with a torrent of anger. Which says more about you than it does about me.
Nope.
Nope.
Modern scientific writing covers many of the concerns of the past but with evidence and assurance to back it up.
Human evolution (amongst many other things ) is proven by irrefutable physical evidence
Why otherwise intelligent people insist on continuing to 'believe' the ideas fears and predudice of a bronze age middle eastern country is baffling.
What a revolting analogy.
This is a horrible thread.