Jeeeezus.... leave it to tech-heads to complicate things.
Keep it SIMPLE. Tim Cook said he was gay and proud of it. No big mystery about WHY he would make such a statement. Others have done it. It's a courageous thing to do. Yes, being gay is STILL a big deal in the country in which Cook lives, where it's either downplayed by onlookers deliberately, as nothing special - often with juvenile comments to the effect of "well you don't hear ME saying that I'M proud to be straight!" - or it's met with cynicism, scorn, and even outright violence.
And as always, it unmasks a lot of ugliness from others and and the world at large. This isn't unexpected. Don't worry, folks, people will still buy Apple gear, and your stock won't be affected (not beyond what's negligible anyway.)
You think it's unwise for Cook to make such a statement given his position and everyone's concern and interest in product sales and share prices? Well folks, there are some things that are even bigger than iPhones and Macs and share value, and that is *social justice*.
If anyone at all is to move us forward in this area in this day and age, it might as well be folks associated with the most forward-thinking tech company on the planet. Apple is iconic. And all the right risks - in terms of technology AND social justice, and the attendant AWARENESS that needs to be spread - are there for the taking.
This is the thing that regressive regimes and egregious entrenched religious views have on a country. They say "this is wrong, because I said it is wrong" not "This is wrong because it kills people." Even in biblical texts, the entire reason why a lot of stuff regarding pork and shellfish exist in it, is because back in that era, they thought god was punishing them, turns out it was pathogens in the food that could easily be killed just from cooking it.
This is not correct. It is a widely held thought, though, but it is not correct. The reason why pork/shellfish is considered not casher/halal is because ruminant animals should have cloven feet, but not non-ruminants. Pig's not ruminant, therefore it doesn't fit in the classification, therefore it comes from the demon.
It's a stupid reason that itself comes from Ancient Egypt, from my understanding, but not from health reasons. Shellfish, likewise, belong to two domains, and are therefore suspicious.
In the ancient world, you're either clearly male/ruminant/fish/female/etc, or you're something in between and THE DEVIL!
What troubles me is how many ignorant people like yourself are out there. As an obvious heterosexual, is it appropriate for anyone to ask you if you eat your wife's pussy, or if you masterbate to photos in magazines, or if you do it doggy style? Or what your children would think if they knew? Go get a life and STFU.
Hello FreeRange, how intelligent of you to tell me to STFU. You seem to be arguing not with anything I said, but with some bizarre interpretation of whatever it is you think I said. I would not use such a childish expression as 'eat my wife's pussy', however seeing as I put myself up as someone who knows what they are talking about, I think I am fair game to be asked any question that anyone deems relevant. It is telling of you that you are only able to talk in safe clichés about sex. As for children, if I had any I'd have not had the wonderful life that I have. Getting back to your STFU, comment, what is it that I have actually said that bothers you so much or are you on automatic pilot?
This is exactly why Tim should have kept his personal life private. Right or wrong the haters are not just going to hate Tim Cook, they're also going to hate Apple. Sorry Tim but that's really not what you're paid a lot of money to do as CEO of Apple.
The bible says homosexuality is sin. God created man and woman to be together. Wether it's 2014 or the dawn of man, that is simply so.
While I don't approve of Tim Cooks choices, God loves him no less.
Everyone gives account for their life when it is over. Time will have His day too. Until that day, the Lord will extend grace and mercy and opportunity to be forgiven, clean, and in right relationship with The God who made him. But the choice will always be Tims to make.
I am always sad to see the name calling, the insults, and even the violent protests. It's never right, no matter what the case.
That said, every human has a choice to make for themselves. Tim Cook has made his choices. So be it.
I respect him as not only a businessman, but he actually does seem to be a genuinely nice guy and is making the right choices to actually help the people he serves as well as those he serves with.
He decided to announce his preference to the world. So be it. He has a platform and he used it. For better or for worse.
While I don't see the "brick" he used as anything related to justice (being good versus evil and right from wrong), it was definitely a reminder to the world that FREEDOM is alive and well in the USA. I don't believe the man is a hero for his announcement. But he is no villain. He simply stated the truth.
Look, I could answer a whole bunch of the posts to me, but lets face it they are just from ignorant so called gay people who seem to have a big bee in their bonnet and have no intention of engaging me in proper debate. The gist of my original post is deliberately being misconstrued as some sort of homophobic diatribe and I suppose the reason for that is that it's in your collective comfort zones to engage in this manner.
Only Micky the Macky seems to have got it. You see I don't really give the slightest **** about the petty bullshit of angry idiots, who only care about themselves. I care about the education of the coming generation of children who do not have the luxury that I had in a world without the internet where it was possible to work stuff out for oneself.
Anyway, I'll post a link to my site sometime in the future when I get more content up there. My work is going to upset a lot of people, from PhD's to religious shonkies and of course angry gay people, but I'll be telling it as it is and in the end, it will be good to hear. So peace to you all.
Unless someone here wants to define it otherwise, 'gay' is a lifestyle choice. And if anyone like myself wants to bring up particular issues that may not sit well with your prepared clichés about murdered babies and religious intolerance then I'm met with a torrent of anger. Which says more about you than it does about me.
Saying gay is a lifestyle choice is just a way of saying that gays are bad people who are making a wrong choice. The people who say that frequently also link it to pederasts or bestiality, which are also "choices."
If you want to try to understand, think about how you'd feel if the PRC took over the world, herded you into a reeducation camp, decided that you should be a woman (to have more women in society) and subsequently announced that you'd be forced to take hormones and undergo surgery to change your physical sex.
Would you have a problem with society telling you what you can be?
And if they said you were breaking the law by refusing, and beat you and locked you up in solitary confinement and printed stories about you that said you were actually a woman and that you were refusing treatment because you were insane, and spread the idea that resistors such as yourself were actually wicked and hurt children and tortured animals, and taught their children to despise you and, whenever possible, to attack and insult you, would you be okay with it all if they held up some Mao book and said that your being a woman was natural and that resisting was evil and repugnant
Would you be all like, "okay! you convinced me! I'll become a woman and you can marry me off to the guy who runs North Korea"?
Or would you have a problem with a bunch of kooks with a history of fucking up the world telling you who you actually are?
So much anger, Daniel.
Until you can rid yourself of anger, you won't be able to see the truth.
The bible says homosexuality is sin. God created man and woman to be together. Wether it's 2014 or the dawn of man, that is simply so.
While I don't approve of Tim Cooks choices, God loves him no less.
Everyone gives account for their life when it is over. Time will have His day too. Until that day, the Lord will extend grace and mercy and opportunity to be forgiven, clean, and in right relationship with The God who made him. But the choice will always be Tims to make.
I am always sad to see the name calling, the insults, and even the violent protests. It's never right, no matter what the case.
That said, every human has a choice to make for themselves. Tim Cook has made his choices. So be it.
I respect him as not only a businessman, but he actually does seem to be a genuinely nice guy and is making the right choices to actually help the people he serves as well as those he serves with.
He decided to announce his preference to the world. So be it. He has a platform and he used it. For better or for worse.
While I don't see the "brick" he used as anything related to justice (being good versus evil and right from wrong), it was definitely a reminder to the world that FREEDOM is alive and well in the USA. I don't believe the man is a hero for his announcement. But he is no villain. He simply stated the truth.
Ignoring the religious aspect of your message, you seem to be confused about "choice" and "preference". Being gay is no more a choice than being white or black. You're born that way; you can't "choose" to have sexual feelings for the opposite-sex if you're gay, no more than you can "choose" to be sexually attracted to the same sex if your straight. It's just who you are.
I am heterosexual but I don't understand why people find this so hard to grasp.
And bisexual people have no choice but be attracted to men and women.
And pedophiles have no choice but be attracted to children.
And people whose mothers don't want them have no choice but to be aborted.
Pretty sure being gay in 'real terms' means being attracted to the same sex. That's it. Sex does not have to be involved. Plenty of virgins out there that can attest to their sexual orientation.
You mean the book written and rewritten by man? The book that contradicts itself constantly? The book that you and everyone else has to cherry pick verses because to adhering to the literal word is impossible? That book? :rolleyes:
&&& He mentioned that the Bible is firmly opposed to people being homosexual. He didn't say he agrees with the Bible or is glad that the Bible says that, but probably because if somebody finds the Bible to be important or true, they will listen and learn. If you don't believe in the Bible because of XYZ, you probably don't have a religion because they all have translations and mistakes over time. If you're an atheist, where did matter, time, energy, and the laws of nature come from? You may have less answers than those with a religion - and more faith.
Um, no. The very nature of your belief system means you can't prove your position which means it's not simply so.
&&& Penis fits in vagina was probably the source reference.
So you choose to not be a homosexual? Please explain when and how you came to this conclusion to choose to be heterosexual?
But he's going hell for his choice to be gay, nonetheless?
That term preference is an odd one. I never hear homophobic people talking about how they prefer to be naturally attracted to women but will make an alternate choice the way I may choose a plain bagel if the bakery is out of my preferred onion bagels.
&&& Do you think natural desire is an indicator of right and wrong? Do you think pedophiles have a choice in sexual preference? You don't think people can choose what they desire?
Really? You don't see any justice is standing up for civil liberties?
&&& I personally think Tim is trying to help mistreated gay people, I see that in his demeanor. That's very good. But I think he's going about it the wrong way. He's using Apple's good name for a cause that he's not explaining well enough. He should have done this before he was CEO, not at the pinnacle when he can use the results of many people's hard work - whatever he does now will seem like Apple's mantra.
Remember when people used to stand behind the bible as proof that other religions and "races" are inferior? Remember when they then made asinine comments about how that inferior stock was fine so long as they didn't interbreed with my superior people? I remember like it still exists.
&&& I don't remember that. Do you remember when Muslims said all Jewish people should live in Israel so they can be killed at once? Do you also respond to every Muslim post with this veracity? Do you remember when Bill Clinton broke his marriage vows? Do you respond to democratic posts this way?.. Do you remember that the Quakers were for racial equality and women's rights before America's independence? Christianity has been misused and misquoted, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Jesus preached love and acceptance. He never said to hate or hurt gay people. He said that being gay was not right. He didn't say gay people will go to hell, or for anyone to discriminate against them. He said anyone who has sinned will go to hell, if they haven't accepted Him, Jesus, as their savior.
You end with a much more balanced comment than you started, so how to reconcile that against your previous comments in this post? &&& this last sentence was part of the original post
And bisexual people have no choice but be attracted to men and women.
And pedophiles have no choice but be attracted to children.
And people whose mothers don't want them have no choice but to be aborted.
And thieves have no choice but to steal.
And murderers have no choice but to kill people.
Got it.
So gays are like pedophiles, murders and thieves? Lovely. The beauty of progress is that people like you are dying out. Your flat Earth mythology is being abandoned. Fewer and fewer people believe that crap anymore. Especially young people. You're losing. And, frankly, it's pretty funny to watch you bigots trip all over yourself while the rest of the world moves forward toward the light.
Look, I could answer a whole bunch of the posts to me, but lets face it they are just from ignorant so called gay people who seem to have a big bee in their bonnet and have no intention of engaging me in proper debate. The gist of my original post is deliberately being misconstrued as some sort of homophobic diatribe and I suppose the reason for that is that it's in your collective comfort zones to engage in this manner.
Only Micky the Macky seems to have got it. You see I don't really give the slightest **** about the petty bullshit of angry idiots, who only care about themselves. I care about the education of the coming generation of children who do not have the luxury that I had in a world without the internet where it was possible to work stuff out for oneself.
Anyway, I'll post a link to my site sometime in the future when I get more content up there. My work is going to upset a lot of people, from PhD's to religious shonkies and of course angry gay people, but I'll be telling it as it is and in the end, it will be good to hear. So peace to you all.
Ha! The coming generation doesn't have any interest in your flat Earth sky wizards. They're too busy being interested in REAL things like science and technology. You're a joke.
And pedophiles have no choice but be attracted to children.
This is probably true. Where choice comes into the matter is whether or not to act on those desires. If you are unable to fathom that a vital difference between being straight/gay and a pedophile is the matter of informed consent, then there is no point trying to have any kind of rational debate with you.
Even if being gay were a choice, how exactly does other people choosing to carry out homosexual acts with other consenting adults affect you in any negative way? What business is it of yours?
And people whose mothers don't want them have no choice but to be aborted.
Foetuses aren’t people, but you are correct that an unwanted foetus does not have a choice but to be aborted should the mother so choose. I’m not sure how this is relevant.
Please tell me, when did you choose to be straight? I know I sure as hell didn’t choose to be straight, I just am. Attractive naked women make me horny. I have no choice over this, it just happens. Attractive naked men do not make me horny. Attractive naked children do not make me horny.
How about you? Do you choose to find women attractive? Presumably if you do, that means that you can choose to not find women attractive. Please, tell me how to do this because sometimes having a sex drive can really get in the way of the rest of my life!
However, I do choose not to be a thief. I have plenty of opportunities, several times a day to be a thief, as do most people. Thankfully, most (I think) choose not to be thieves.
And bisexual people have no choice but be attracted to men and women.
And pedophiles have no choice but be attracted to children.
And people whose mothers don't want them have no choice but to be aborted.
And thieves have no choice but to steal.
And murderers have no choice but to kill people.
Got it.
Nice try. Example 1 and 2 are compulsions. They really have no choice. They cannot help feeling the way they feel. Acting on their feelings -- that's a choice. It's generally legal for #1 and universally criminal for #2.
Example three is not even a matter of having or not having a choice. It's a red herring.
The rest are ordinarily true personal choices unless the person has some kind of mental disorder or illness.
If sexual preference is a choice, can you imagine yourself choosing to be attracted to a person of the same gender? Of course not. So stop your nonsense.
So you don't like gays. Thinking of gayness makes you feel funny. Deal with it, don't drag the world into your personal crap.
To all the people in the other threads who maintained that "there's no risk" in coming out these days, or that it was done for his own benefit somehow, I give a resounding: ha!
Just because you don't see prejudice in your own little corner of the world, or because you're not part of a minority, doesn't mean that it has gone away. And this thread is even further proof of that.
The bible says homosexuality is sin. God created man and woman to be together.
Then why did god create a wide spectrum of sexual orientation in a number of species throughout the animal kingdom (humans included) as can be proven by scientific evidence? Was he/she just trying to mess with us? Or was perhaps that sin invented by bigoted human beings?
I care about the education of the coming generation of children who do not have the luxury that I had in a world without the internet where it was possible to work stuff out for oneself.
Silly me. I thought that putting ideas out for peer/public review and genuinely listening to the logic (or lack thereof) behind criticisms and opposing ideas was the way one gets to the truth (i.e. dialectical method). At least, that's the way knowledge and ideas are validated in academia. But I guess when one truly believes that they're omnipotent (or has some sort of unquestionable divine justification), there's no need for it.
Comments
Keep it SIMPLE. Tim Cook said he was gay and proud of it. No big mystery about WHY he would make such a statement. Others have done it. It's a courageous thing to do. Yes, being gay is STILL a big deal in the country in which Cook lives, where it's either downplayed by onlookers deliberately, as nothing special - often with juvenile comments to the effect of "well you don't hear ME saying that I'M proud to be straight!" - or it's met with cynicism, scorn, and even outright violence.
And as always, it unmasks a lot of ugliness from others and and the world at large. This isn't unexpected. Don't worry, folks, people will still buy Apple gear, and your stock won't be affected (not beyond what's negligible anyway.)
You think it's unwise for Cook to make such a statement given his position and everyone's concern and interest in product sales and share prices? Well folks, there are some things that are even bigger than iPhones and Macs and share value, and that is *social justice*.
If anyone at all is to move us forward in this area in this day and age, it might as well be folks associated with the most forward-thinking tech company on the planet. Apple is iconic. And all the right risks - in terms of technology AND social justice, and the attendant AWARENESS that needs to be spread - are there for the taking.
This is the thing that regressive regimes and egregious entrenched religious views have on a country. They say "this is wrong, because I said it is wrong" not "This is wrong because it kills people." Even in biblical texts, the entire reason why a lot of stuff regarding pork and shellfish exist in it, is because back in that era, they thought god was punishing them, turns out it was pathogens in the food that could easily be killed just from cooking it.
This is not correct. It is a widely held thought, though, but it is not correct. The reason why pork/shellfish is considered not casher/halal is because ruminant animals should have cloven feet, but not non-ruminants. Pig's not ruminant, therefore it doesn't fit in the classification, therefore it comes from the demon.
It's a stupid reason that itself comes from Ancient Egypt, from my understanding, but not from health reasons. Shellfish, likewise, belong to two domains, and are therefore suspicious.
In the ancient world, you're either clearly male/ruminant/fish/female/etc, or you're something in between and THE DEVIL!
Good news, we progressed. A bit.
What troubles me is how many ignorant people like yourself are out there. As an obvious heterosexual, is it appropriate for anyone to ask you if you eat your wife's pussy, or if you masterbate to photos in magazines, or if you do it doggy style? Or what your children would think if they knew? Go get a life and STFU.
Hello FreeRange, how intelligent of you to tell me to STFU. You seem to be arguing not with anything I said, but with some bizarre interpretation of whatever it is you think I said. I would not use such a childish expression as 'eat my wife's pussy', however seeing as I put myself up as someone who knows what they are talking about, I think I am fair game to be asked any question that anyone deems relevant. It is telling of you that you are only able to talk in safe clichés about sex. As for children, if I had any I'd have not had the wonderful life that I have. Getting back to your STFU, comment, what is it that I have actually said that bothers you so much or are you on automatic pilot?
Well said.
Your words are an example to all of us.
Look, I could answer a whole bunch of the posts to me, but lets face it they are just from ignorant so called gay people who seem to have a big bee in their bonnet and have no intention of engaging me in proper debate. The gist of my original post is deliberately being misconstrued as some sort of homophobic diatribe and I suppose the reason for that is that it's in your collective comfort zones to engage in this manner.
Only Micky the Macky seems to have got it. You see I don't really give the slightest **** about the petty bullshit of angry idiots, who only care about themselves. I care about the education of the coming generation of children who do not have the luxury that I had in a world without the internet where it was possible to work stuff out for oneself.
Anyway, I'll post a link to my site sometime in the future when I get more content up there. My work is going to upset a lot of people, from PhD's to religious shonkies and of course angry gay people, but I'll be telling it as it is and in the end, it will be good to hear. So peace to you all.
So much anger, Daniel.
Until you can rid yourself of anger, you won't be able to see the truth.
And bisexual people have no choice but be attracted to men and women.
And pedophiles have no choice but be attracted to children.
And people whose mothers don't want them have no choice but to be aborted.
And thieves have no choice but to steal.
And murderers have no choice but to kill people.
Got it.
Pretty sure being gay in 'real terms' means being attracted to the same sex. That's it. Sex does not have to be involved. Plenty of virgins out there that can attest to their sexual orientation.
And bisexual people have no choice but be attracted to men and women.
And pedophiles have no choice but be attracted to children.
And people whose mothers don't want them have no choice but to be aborted.
And thieves have no choice but to steal.
And murderers have no choice but to kill people.
Got it.
So gays are like pedophiles, murders and thieves? Lovely. The beauty of progress is that people like you are dying out. Your flat Earth mythology is being abandoned. Fewer and fewer people believe that crap anymore. Especially young people. You're losing. And, frankly, it's pretty funny to watch you bigots trip all over yourself while the rest of the world moves forward toward the light.
Look, I could answer a whole bunch of the posts to me, but lets face it they are just from ignorant so called gay people who seem to have a big bee in their bonnet and have no intention of engaging me in proper debate. The gist of my original post is deliberately being misconstrued as some sort of homophobic diatribe and I suppose the reason for that is that it's in your collective comfort zones to engage in this manner.
Only Micky the Macky seems to have got it. You see I don't really give the slightest **** about the petty bullshit of angry idiots, who only care about themselves. I care about the education of the coming generation of children who do not have the luxury that I had in a world without the internet where it was possible to work stuff out for oneself.
Anyway, I'll post a link to my site sometime in the future when I get more content up there. My work is going to upset a lot of people, from PhD's to religious shonkies and of course angry gay people, but I'll be telling it as it is and in the end, it will be good to hear. So peace to you all.
Ha! The coming generation doesn't have any interest in your flat Earth sky wizards. They're too busy being interested in REAL things like science and technology. You're a joke.
Correct.
This is probably true. Where choice comes into the matter is whether or not to act on those desires. If you are unable to fathom that a vital difference between being straight/gay and a pedophile is the matter of informed consent, then there is no point trying to have any kind of rational debate with you.
Even if being gay were a choice, how exactly does other people choosing to carry out homosexual acts with other consenting adults affect you in any negative way? What business is it of yours?
Foetuses aren’t people, but you are correct that an unwanted foetus does not have a choice but to be aborted should the mother so choose. I’m not sure how this is relevant.
OK, now we’ve gone off on a real tangent.
Please tell me, when did you choose to be straight? I know I sure as hell didn’t choose to be straight, I just am. Attractive naked women make me horny. I have no choice over this, it just happens. Attractive naked men do not make me horny. Attractive naked children do not make me horny.
How about you? Do you choose to find women attractive? Presumably if you do, that means that you can choose to not find women attractive. Please, tell me how to do this because sometimes having a sex drive can really get in the way of the rest of my life!
However, I do choose not to be a thief. I have plenty of opportunities, several times a day to be a thief, as do most people. Thankfully, most (I think) choose not to be thieves.
As above.
Dollars to donuts that Milonov guy gets "funny feelings" whenever he sees the Russian National Men's Water Polo team in competition.
And bisexual people have no choice but be attracted to men and women.
And pedophiles have no choice but be attracted to children.
And people whose mothers don't want them have no choice but to be aborted.
And thieves have no choice but to steal.
And murderers have no choice but to kill people.
Got it.
Nice try. Example 1 and 2 are compulsions. They really have no choice. They cannot help feeling the way they feel. Acting on their feelings -- that's a choice. It's generally legal for #1 and universally criminal for #2.
Example three is not even a matter of having or not having a choice. It's a red herring.
The rest are ordinarily true personal choices unless the person has some kind of mental disorder or illness.
If sexual preference is a choice, can you imagine yourself choosing to be attracted to a person of the same gender? Of course not. So stop your nonsense.
So you don't like gays. Thinking of gayness makes you feel funny. Deal with it, don't drag the world into your personal crap.
My interest is why now and not years ago or years from now.
Well 'now' has to be some time. And in this case its his choice not yours or the medias.
To all the people in the other threads who maintained that "there's no risk" in coming out these days, or that it was done for his own benefit somehow, I give a resounding: ha!
Just because you don't see prejudice in your own little corner of the world, or because you're not part of a minority, doesn't mean that it has gone away. And this thread is even further proof of that.
The bible says homosexuality is sin. God created man and woman to be together.
Then why did god create a wide spectrum of sexual orientation in a number of species throughout the animal kingdom (humans included) as can be proven by scientific evidence? Was he/she just trying to mess with us? Or was perhaps that sin invented by bigoted human beings?
I care about the education of the coming generation of children who do not have the luxury that I had in a world without the internet where it was possible to work stuff out for oneself.
Silly me. I thought that putting ideas out for peer/public review and genuinely listening to the logic (or lack thereof) behind criticisms and opposing ideas was the way one gets to the truth (i.e. dialectical method). At least, that's the way knowledge and ideas are validated in academia. But I guess when one truly believes that they're omnipotent (or has some sort of unquestionable divine justification), there's no need for it.
His coming out is as pointless as the iPad mini 3
Almost as pointless as DED spending 5000 words blathering on about it. Almost.