Billions? Please. The only people that think everybody cares about this issue are gays and their supporters in the media and left of center politicians. Everybody else just yawned and got on with their lives.
I honestly wish you were right that nobody cared. That would mean that homophobia and prejudice against gays was a thing of the past. Unfortunately, given some of the anti-gay reaction on social media and from leaders in backwards countries like Russia and Saudi Arabia, it's clear that's not the case.
I guess it must have been just as "confusing" for children, especially in the US South when desegregation was enacted, and the poor kids had to deal with the baffling new knowledge that African Americans henceforth would actually be considered to be equally human and at least from a legal point of view, to be treated fairly.
I’ve never understood why this behavior is “allowed” while anything that doesn’t involve the oppression of your own beliefs in favor of everyone else’s is “bad”.
Gay pride is a sensible thing for the same reason that blue shells show up in mario kart. You don't need one if you're first in the race. Gay people have spent most of modern history being looked down upon, brutalized, and often killed for who they are. I'd say they are allowed to respond to that with a bit of pride at the very least. Privileged groups, however, do not get to pull pride out of their ass for no reason.
It's a well known fact that Cook personally touched all new iPhone's & iPad's, so if you buy one you might "catch gay." /s
Few years ago a female coworker had her breast cut off to look like a man, if I can adjust to and have no problem with that - Cook's sexual preference is meaningless to me. Just keep Apple moving forward is all I care about, and if his announcement helps some young person out there feel more accepted so be it.
He as all of us has the right to live how he wants and to be happy.
Being an obviously articulate and intelligent person, and now that he has decided to announce to the world his 'pride' at being 'gay', I would be extremely interested for Mr Cook to define what 'being gay' actually means in real terms.
For men, does it mean preferring a man as a sexual partner? Does sex have to be involved, and is it necessary for a new category of 'marriage' to be invented, as opposed to simply having a 'gay' relationship recognised as having the same rights as a traditional marriage.
It troubles me how very young children will come to think about relationships and what criteria they themselves will use to decide if they are in fact 'gay' if respected people like Cook decide to be 'proud' about it but then become overtly coy. If he's going to make a big deal about it, is it reasonable for an interviewer to ask him if he has anal sex with his partner or does that then become a matter of privacy.
Derrida made a big deal about how all words are signs and each sign is the meaning of another sign so that words like 'marriage' have no meaning without all the other words that go with it, one of those words being 'consummate'.
It's all very confusing to me and I cannot imagine how it would be to be a child growing up in an overtly sexualised world to be faced with these issues that no one wants to talk about.
You seem a little obsessed with "gay", I wonder what that means? Your above post would be very interesting to a Freudian.
What does it mean to be gay? First, answer me this: what does it mean to be straight? How do you know that you're straight? Your questions betray your ignorance. Your feigning to worry about children and how they will view 'marriage' is not an argument at all, but an unfounded fear that you are projecting onto others. Nothing you said is a concern for the vast majority of people, but it is to those who are steeped in religious dogma or fearful of the unknown in their lives.
You don't have to worry about children. They will all know if they are gay. They will know more about it than you, who clearly doesn't understand. You ask what being gay means, yet you don't define what being straight means. You view your world from your perspective, which is fine, yet you pass silent judgment against those whom you don't understand.
Sometimes it's best to be thought a fool and remain silent, than to speak and remove all doubt.
Oh, and by the way, marriage is not just for straight people. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. I'm married to my husband and partner of 10 years. I can assure you, we know very well what it means. And in the 10 years we have been married, I've seen three of my straight friends go through divorce. So clean up your own act, for all of straight people, before you start questioning others.
I understand the bible says homosexuality is a sin, the same book also serves as an excellent reference for how we should treat our slaves. If Tim doesn't have any slaves, can he be excused the other bit?
about 10% of sheep are also prefer their own gender, so clearly sheep can make a 'choice'
If you believe the word of god, as written in the bible, homosexuals are in for a nasty time, they will spend an eternity in pain and suffering in hell that being the case, cut homo's some slack, buy em a beer or something, since surely they can have a few years of peace and "free will", before the eternity starts......
For me, Cook's announcement is an affirmation, as Apple head, that the company is inclusive and tolerant. Those are two traits I want to see in people and in companies.
Personally, I seem to be quite mainstream, but I'm old enough to know that variety makes the world go 'round.
It's all very confusing to me and I cannot imagine how it would be to be a child growing up in an overtly sexualised world to be faced with these issues that no one wants to talk about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foggyhill
Man, what did I read. Is that insanity in your text?
Naw, the last sentence is reality. While a person's race or ethnicity may be more apparent to kids, sexual orientation isn't, so it's not "insane" to think that this is a tough issue to teach your own kids. But you do have to talk about it.
It's not like nobody knew before that. Everybody knew that Tim Cook was gay, it's been mentioned numerous times on this forum before.
It's just that for whatever reason, he's decided to make it official now. I guess that he just felt that the time was right.
Outside of hai friends etc nobody KNEW anything. Just like for weeks before a keynote nobody really knows anything about the iPhone. We know the rumors but they can still end up false. I mean we 'knew' this year there was going to be an iPad Pro and a new apple TV but guess what, we 'knew' wrong.
The why he didn't say it sooner is Tims business. Perhaps he just got tired of the rumors and decided to just say it even though he doesn't owe the world such a statement. Perhaps someone close to him convinced him that by not saying it he was kind of a hypocrite. Perhaps something happened in his personal life like finding out some closeted gay kid in his home town tried to commit suicide cause he felt everyone would hate and scorn him for being gay. Who knows. It doesn't really matter. Nor should it matter that Tim is gay.
However, the most important people, Apple stockholders do not care.
It could also be that some Apple stockholders do care, but that they're separating Tim Cook the man from Tim Cook the CEO. I mean, I don't think I want to know what most CEOs of publicly traded companies do at home, straight or gay.
I would have stated OPs view differently, but I agree with his stance, here's why:
Penis fits in vagina was probably the source reference.
You just made the argument that if your penis first in it then your penis belongs there, and if it fits in vagina it belongs there.
Do you think natural desire is an indicator of right and wrong?
I don't believe in this simplistic view of right/wrong and good/evil.
Do you think pedophiles have a choice in sexual preference?
1) In the same way I have no choice to be attracted to those of the opposite sex, especially if they are of a certain look? No. Now acting on those feelings are another thing entirely. I also have a natural lack of attraction for those I haven't gotten to know personally, even if I'm physically attracted to them.
2) I find it really fucking disgusting that the topic of consenting adults having an emotional bond with other turns into a comparison to rape because homosexuality is mentioned.
You don't think people can choose what they desire?
1) Did you choose to not be gay? I certainly didn't choose to be heterosexual so why would I make the bizarre leap that all people are born with the genitalia of one sex and the brain makeup that matches it when we know how the sex organs are forms, that one can be born with both sex organs, that in some animals we can determine the sex organs with a slight change in temperature, and the complexity of the human brain. It definitely makes one wonder why certain people feel that sexual "preference" is, well, a preference. Maybe those individuals had to deny their own natural desires because they were afraid what society would think about them. In a fair world, that should make every single one of those people be happy that future generations won't have to hid like they did. It's akin to someone saying, "I didn't get to sit in the front of the bus so neither should you." Be happy that others won't have to suffer the same way and, hopefully, humanity can be more productive as a result.
2) I'm not even convinced free will exists. Sure, you can make choices that aren't specifically programmed, but so can computers. We are the result of our genes. Perhaps these aberrations are genes being different for the sake of evolving the species, or perhaps, like the movie Jurassic Park, there are complexities in our biology that we don't yet understand that producing homosexuals naturally in order to lower the procreation rate of our species for the survival of our species. We know that homosexuality is a part of nature, but is it more common in societies with higher populations, worse air quality, less food, certain kind of stressors, higher use of detergents, etc.? Personally I'd think the homeostasis for survival of the species would be more easily met with increased sterilization over homosexuality.
I don't remember that.
Here are a couple important court cases for civil rights in the US you should be aware:
This is exactly WHY we need more people to come out - homophobia is not cool and never will be.
And those who say, "Who cares?" This is why you should care or you just support homophobia.
If Tim Cook comes out as a straight man with kids, would he get that kind of crap from Russia and homophobes? Nope.
I'd certainly like to live in a world where coming out homosexual had the exact same impact as coming out as heterosexual, but until such time I do think people do need to stand up for this civil liberty. To paraphrase Steve Jobs, "Those people will eventually die off."
To put it to a hypothetical test, say you took the TARDIS to any time and culture in history. Could you not easily point out which individuals likely had the male sex organs and which had the female sex organs on first glance? Could you not easily see interactions between boys, girls, men and women to know which were betrothed, which were attracted to another, and so on? I think it would be pretty clear.
If you took the TARDIS to any point in history you'd probably run into a Dalek plot to exterminate all life. That tends to happen a lot.
I don't get the point of this article. Apple stock being at record highs just means nobody gives a shit that Tim Cook is gay or that he came out. Because it's not about HIM it's about Apple the company.
It's plain from your posts in the other thread and here, you have a problem with Tim being, and announcing that he is gay. He did it. He admitted it and he's owning it. More power to him and to those who are having difficulty with their sexual identity because of society's ignorance and unwillingness to accept them. Tim's announcement will go a long way towards making others feel comfortable about the issue.
Did you have a fit when Apple released their "It Gets Better" video?
There is a not-so-thin veil of anti-gay in your posts. If you didn't have a problem with it, you would just stay quiet.
Personally, I applaud Tim Cook for having the courage to come out and be very forward with something that, in my own personal opinion, should not be talked about. Mind you, that isn't because I fear/loathe/hate/etc the LGBT community; it is simply because it is none of my business. Ok, so he's gay. Awesome. Hopefully he has someone to come home to that loves him for him.
Then I see comments on here about how he is living a life of sin. I really wish we were past this nonsense. The Bible/Koran/etc were written as a way to communicate the ways of the world. Obviously, they didn't know jack-diddly-shit back then, but they had what they had: some mysterious being(s) that could control what was happening in the world.
Modern days, we have this little thing I like to call science. Science is able to determine a lot of what used to be mysterious. Things like the wind, stars in the sky, and even the human body and all of its chromosomes. We know these things because of science and the scientific method.
So, I get back to Tim being gay. Ok, so some chromosomes in his body were turned on and he is attracted to males. It is probably the same trigger as to why I am attracted to females. That doesn't make him bad or evil and a sinner. It makes him a man, who likes men. I think it was Groucho Marx who said it best: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
I hope all the haters commenting here understand they have some company on their side for example those in control of Russia, most of the middle east and other oppressive governments throughout the world.
Comments
Billions? Please. The only people that think everybody cares about this issue are gays and their supporters in the media and left of center politicians. Everybody else just yawned and got on with their lives.
I honestly wish you were right that nobody cared. That would mean that homophobia and prejudice against gays was a thing of the past. Unfortunately, given some of the anti-gay reaction on social media and from leaders in backwards countries like Russia and Saudi Arabia, it's clear that's not the case.
I guess it must have been just as "confusing" for children, especially in the US South when desegregation was enacted, and the poor kids had to deal with the baffling new knowledge that African Americans henceforth would actually be considered to be equally human and at least from a legal point of view, to be treated fairly.
Must have been terribly difficult for them too.
I’ve never understood why this behavior is “allowed” while anything that doesn’t involve the oppression of your own beliefs in favor of everyone else’s is “bad”.
It's a well known fact that Cook personally touched all new iPhone's & iPad's, so if you buy one you might "catch gay." /s
Few years ago a female coworker had her breast cut off to look like a man, if I can adjust to and have no problem with that - Cook's sexual preference is meaningless to me. Just keep Apple moving forward is all I care about, and if his announcement helps some young person out there feel more accepted so be it.
He as all of us has the right to live how he wants and to be happy.
Being an obviously articulate and intelligent person, and now that he has decided to announce to the world his 'pride' at being 'gay', I would be extremely interested for Mr Cook to define what 'being gay' actually means in real terms.
For men, does it mean preferring a man as a sexual partner? Does sex have to be involved, and is it necessary for a new category of 'marriage' to be invented, as opposed to simply having a 'gay' relationship recognised as having the same rights as a traditional marriage.
It troubles me how very young children will come to think about relationships and what criteria they themselves will use to decide if they are in fact 'gay' if respected people like Cook decide to be 'proud' about it but then become overtly coy. If he's going to make a big deal about it, is it reasonable for an interviewer to ask him if he has anal sex with his partner or does that then become a matter of privacy.
Derrida made a big deal about how all words are signs and each sign is the meaning of another sign so that words like 'marriage' have no meaning without all the other words that go with it, one of those words being 'consummate'.
It's all very confusing to me and I cannot imagine how it would be to be a child growing up in an overtly sexualised world to be faced with these issues that no one wants to talk about.
You seem a little obsessed with "gay", I wonder what that means? Your above post would be very interesting to a Freudian.
What does it mean to be gay? First, answer me this: what does it mean to be straight? How do you know that you're straight? Your questions betray your ignorance. Your feigning to worry about children and how they will view 'marriage' is not an argument at all, but an unfounded fear that you are projecting onto others. Nothing you said is a concern for the vast majority of people, but it is to those who are steeped in religious dogma or fearful of the unknown in their lives.
You don't have to worry about children. They will all know if they are gay. They will know more about it than you, who clearly doesn't understand. You ask what being gay means, yet you don't define what being straight means. You view your world from your perspective, which is fine, yet you pass silent judgment against those whom you don't understand.
Sometimes it's best to be thought a fool and remain silent, than to speak and remove all doubt.
Oh, and by the way, marriage is not just for straight people. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. I'm married to my husband and partner of 10 years. I can assure you, we know very well what it means. And in the 10 years we have been married, I've seen three of my straight friends go through divorce. So clean up your own act, for all of straight people, before you start questioning others.
The bible says homosexuality is sin. God created man and woman to be together. Wether it's 2014 or the dawn of man, that is simply so.
And god, other than a character in a fictional story, is also a figment of your imagination. You believe in make believe. That is simply so.
I feel sorry for people like you, people who live in fear and cannot think for themselves. I'm so very sorry for you.
I understand the bible says homosexuality is a sin, the same book also serves as an excellent reference for how we should treat our slaves. If Tim doesn't have any slaves, can he be excused the other bit?
about 10% of sheep are also prefer their own gender, so clearly sheep can make a 'choice'
If you believe the word of god, as written in the bible, homosexuals are in for a nasty time, they will spend an eternity in pain and suffering in hell that being the case, cut homo's some slack, buy em a beer or something, since surely they can have a few years of peace and "free will", before the eternity starts......
For me, Cook's announcement is an affirmation, as Apple head, that the company is inclusive and tolerant. Those are two traits I want to see in people and in companies.
Personally, I seem to be quite mainstream, but I'm old enough to know that variety makes the world go 'round.
I'm very impressed with Tim Cook.
It's all very confusing to me and I cannot imagine how it would be to be a child growing up in an overtly sexualised world to be faced with these issues that no one wants to talk about.
Quote:
Man, what did I read. Is that insanity in your text?
Naw, the last sentence is reality. While a person's race or ethnicity may be more apparent to kids, sexual orientation isn't, so it's not "insane" to think that this is a tough issue to teach your own kids. But you do have to talk about it.
Outside of hai friends etc nobody KNEW anything. Just like for weeks before a keynote nobody really knows anything about the iPhone. We know the rumors but they can still end up false. I mean we 'knew' this year there was going to be an iPad Pro and a new apple TV but guess what, we 'knew' wrong.
The why he didn't say it sooner is Tims business. Perhaps he just got tired of the rumors and decided to just say it even though he doesn't owe the world such a statement. Perhaps someone close to him convinced him that by not saying it he was kind of a hypocrite. Perhaps something happened in his personal life like finding out some closeted gay kid in his home town tried to commit suicide cause he felt everyone would hate and scorn him for being gay. Who knows. It doesn't really matter. Nor should it matter that Tim is gay.
Billions of people probably care.
However, the most important people, Apple stockholders do not care.
It could also be that some Apple stockholders do care, but that they're separating Tim Cook the man from Tim Cook the CEO. I mean, I don't think I want to know what most CEOs of publicly traded companies do at home, straight or gay.
And those who say, "Who cares?" This is why you should care or you just support homophobia.
If Tim Cook comes out as a straight man with kids, would he get that kind of crap from Russia and homophobes? Nope.
That's rich coming from you on this subject.
You just made the argument that if your penis first in it then your penis belongs there, and if it fits in vagina it belongs there.
I don't believe in this simplistic view of right/wrong and good/evil.
1) In the same way I have no choice to be attracted to those of the opposite sex, especially if they are of a certain look? No. Now acting on those feelings are another thing entirely. I also have a natural lack of attraction for those I haven't gotten to know personally, even if I'm physically attracted to them.
2) I find it really fucking disgusting that the topic of consenting adults having an emotional bond with other turns into a comparison to rape because homosexuality is mentioned.
1) Did you choose to not be gay? I certainly didn't choose to be heterosexual so why would I make the bizarre leap that all people are born with the genitalia of one sex and the brain makeup that matches it when we know how the sex organs are forms, that one can be born with both sex organs, that in some animals we can determine the sex organs with a slight change in temperature, and the complexity of the human brain. It definitely makes one wonder why certain people feel that sexual "preference" is, well, a preference. Maybe those individuals had to deny their own natural desires because they were afraid what society would think about them. In a fair world, that should make every single one of those people be happy that future generations won't have to hid like they did. It's akin to someone saying, "I didn't get to sit in the front of the bus so neither should you." Be happy that others won't have to suffer the same way and, hopefully, humanity can be more productive as a result.
2) I'm not even convinced free will exists. Sure, you can make choices that aren't specifically programmed, but so can computers. We are the result of our genes. Perhaps these aberrations are genes being different for the sake of evolving the species, or perhaps, like the movie Jurassic Park, there are complexities in our biology that we don't yet understand that producing homosexuals naturally in order to lower the procreation rate of our species for the survival of our species. We know that homosexuality is a part of nature, but is it more common in societies with higher populations, worse air quality, less food, certain kind of stressors, higher use of detergents, etc.? Personally I'd think the homeostasis for survival of the species would be more easily met with increased sterilization over homosexuality.
Here are a couple important court cases for civil rights in the US you should be aware:
That doesn't answer my question. You've only skirted it with non answers.
I'd certainly like to live in a world where coming out homosexual had the exact same impact as coming out as heterosexual, but until such time I do think people do need to stand up for this civil liberty. To paraphrase Steve Jobs, "Those people will eventually die off."
If you took the TARDIS to any point in history you'd probably run into a Dalek plot to exterminate all life. That tends to happen a lot.
And I definitely couldn't tell a Dalek's sex by looking at them.
Well, maybe some Daleks.
I don't get the point of this article. Apple stock being at record highs just means nobody gives a shit that Tim Cook is gay or that he came out. Because it's not about HIM it's about Apple the company.
It's plain from your posts in the other thread and here, you have a problem with Tim being, and announcing that he is gay. He did it. He admitted it and he's owning it. More power to him and to those who are having difficulty with their sexual identity because of society's ignorance and unwillingness to accept them. Tim's announcement will go a long way towards making others feel comfortable about the issue.
Did you have a fit when Apple released their "It Gets Better" video?
There is a not-so-thin veil of anti-gay in your posts. If you didn't have a problem with it, you would just stay quiet.
Get over it.
Personally, I applaud Tim Cook for having the courage to come out and be very forward with something that, in my own personal opinion, should not be talked about. Mind you, that isn't because I fear/loathe/hate/etc the LGBT community; it is simply because it is none of my business. Ok, so he's gay. Awesome. Hopefully he has someone to come home to that loves him for him.
Then I see comments on here about how he is living a life of sin. I really wish we were past this nonsense. The Bible/Koran/etc were written as a way to communicate the ways of the world. Obviously, they didn't know jack-diddly-shit back then, but they had what they had: some mysterious being(s) that could control what was happening in the world.
Modern days, we have this little thing I like to call science. Science is able to determine a lot of what used to be mysterious. Things like the wind, stars in the sky, and even the human body and all of its chromosomes. We know these things because of science and the scientific method.
So, I get back to Tim being gay. Ok, so some chromosomes in his body were turned on and he is attracted to males. It is probably the same trigger as to why I am attracted to females. That doesn't make him bad or evil and a sinner. It makes him a man, who likes men. I think it was Groucho Marx who said it best: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."