"Oh, it's not good enough for me and you wouldn't like it either. Hmmm, whoever gets the third person to buy it gets a free luch".
Edit: Do you mean to tell me that you keep up do date with all of this and you will actually tell someone to buy that? If so, I'd have to say that not knowing you has made my life better.
It means that people who want in on iOS but don't need the lasted and greatest can get in.
I don't own any iPad so I have no recommendation other than the latest and greatest.
Then who is the demo? Poor people? People too stupid to know the difference? If somebody's using the device to just surf the web and watch movies and they might as will get a Kindle Fire or Nexus 7. If nothing else those devices have a superior screen. I hate saying that but there's no way I would recommend a non-retina screen for any device running iOS 7 or higher.
I won't recommend an Android device. Ever. Again, the older iPads could be for kids or for display purposes as in "for more info" kiosks, medical applications that don't need the latest and greatest, menus at restaurants, etc.
There are plenty of use cases where 16 GB is more than adequate for an iDevice ...
For example the autistic or speech challenged can use Proloquotogo (shown earlier), small business POST terminals, installers, tradesmen, kids. emerging markets ...
Not everyone needs 32 GB!
Also, the lower price point provides an entry to the Apple iDevice culture for people with limited funds -- who would rather do without than, buy crap..
Finally, I for one, am getting tired of your constant harangue on this subject!
I find your attitude very elitist and condescending -- who are you to be telling the successful Apple management team what they need to do?
What are your bona fides?
Have you ever run a multi-billion dollar company * with thousands of employees, creating and delivering millions of new devices, each year, to hundreds of millions of very satisfied customers?
* or any company, for that matter?
Give it a rest!
Very few people need 64GB either but Apple offers it. When you have people saying they can't upgrade their software because they don't have enough storage that should be a clue that 16GB isn't enough. And if my comments make me an elitist I'm certainly not the only one. Heck even John Gruber questions whether Apple should be selling devices with 16GB anymore. And I'm sorry but it is my belief that some things Apple does are completely contradictory to Jony Ive's statement that its great products first and profits second. In Apple's ad "this is our signature" they ask the question "does this deserve to exist?" I'm sure that was a swipe at Samsung and deservedly so. But quite honestly I think we could ask the same question about the iPad mini 3. It's $100 more than the iPad mini 2 and the only difference is touch ID.Is touch ID really worth $100? I'm not sure many people would say yes. I'm the last person to scream what would Steve do but honestly I think he'd look at the iPad lineup and go nuts. Apple is all about simplicity but there is nothing simple about the current iPad lineup. And not all developers are happy about still having to support the A5 chip first introduced in 2011.
It means that people who want in on iOS but don't need the lasted and greatest can get in.
I don't own any iPad so I have no recommendation other than the latest and greatest.
I won't recommend an Android device. Ever. Again, the older iPads could be for kids or for display purposes as in "for more info" kiosks, medical applications that don't need the latest and greatest, menus at restaurants, etc.
I can see certain instances where an older device would be just fine (like POS systems or the things you mention). But for the general consumer A5, 512MB RAM and non-retina is just not a great experience and I don't think app developers should have to support it anymore. It's not fair when they get crappy app reviews because their app doesn't work great on old hardware.
Lies. If you use iTunes you can update ani iOS device even with minimal space.
I helped someone yesterday updating an iPhone to iOS 8.1 with a phone near capacity. They needed 610MiB free in order to allow the update to take place via the iTunes app.
While some, here (and on other AI threads) are grousing that Apple needs to do this or that to satisfy this or that perceived need ...
Let me offer my 2 cents!
IMO, Apple's greatest challenge (and potential) in the next 2 years is to bring [a form of] ApplePay to the masses (billions of people) -- worldwide!
To do that, they need an inexpensive [or subsidized] device that will cost $0-$50 out of pocket.
I don't know if Apple can deliver a profitable iPhone with TouchID for that price -- but I suspect that they can get close -- if they skinny down the hardware, software and basic apps (phone, mail, browser, ApplePay). If memory serves, except for ApplePay, the 4GB iPhone 1, could do that -- the 8GB model certainly could.
I think Apple should try!
And for those who want (or need) more -- let them pay more to get what they want!
We bought the 1st gen mini this summer when Target and Best Buy had them for $199. It was the magic price point. Over that was too high.
Wouldn't mind the retina mini, but Apple has kept tablets in the luxury realm for most buyers - whether they can't afford it or don't want to pay that price.
If you are going to read books and have the occasional game, the device should not be expensive. Not when you can get a laptop for the same price or cheaper than an iPad. Going back to Chromebooks, they offer far more value than an iPad and at a lower cost (and I type on one now as its my go-to computer).
The 1st gen mini is fine for $199. $249 is a little high, but still okay (because of the software available). For those of us used to retina iPhones, they are a bit of a step down and a disappointment.
A 1st gen mini is just fine for most people for nearly all purposes and you don't have to spend an arm and a leg.
How does a Chromebook offer "far more value" than an iPad? They don't have native apps; everything's done in a browser.
No way I'd recommend a 1st gen iPad mini to anyone. I don't know why Apple is selling it other than getting rid of existing stock that might be remaining.
Well, there's going for $250, and that means a lot for a lot of people. It's a nice tablet, just a bit dated. It will run almost everything today "well enough." If you want Pixelmator, or to use it to play some graphics-intensive game, of course today's iPad Air 2 is better. But it costs significantly more, too.
I don't have a credit card, I didn't opt into Verizon's reward points scam (and hardly use their data network). I use companies that respect consumers and their privacy, and I'm always cautious where I place my data (heck, I keep my personal journal on an eMate 300, hardly a target for data theft).
I have an eMate too, though I don't use it anymore, it's in my gadget dsiplay case next to my Psion 5MX and HP 95LX.
How does a Chromebook offer "far more value" than an iPad? They don't have native apps; everything's done in a browser.
You should really use a ChromeBook before passing judgement. Web apps very good now, you can use Adobe Photoshop now, MS Office which is free to use with a OneDrive Account, iCoud apps, etc. Check it out for yourself by going to the ChromeStore. They have native apps now and are starting to get more Android apps as well, soon the entire Android catalog will be available for Chrome OS. If all I had was 250 dollars I would defiantly get a ChromeBook or ChromeBox over an iPad Mini, you can also install Linux, which means Wine, which means Windows applciations as well. Though for 50 bucks more you could have a Nokia 2520, that would be a no brainer for me.
Lies. If you use iTunes you can update ani iOS device even with minimal space.
Excuse me but if Apple offers OTA updates you shouldn't have to use iTunes. I know plenty of iOS device owners who have never even used iTunes. To force them to have to go to a computer (assuming they have one), download iTunes and do the update that way is a poor user experience (iTunes on windows is a crap experience and I only use it when I absolutely have to).
Well, there's going for $250, and that means a lot for a lot of people. It's a nice tablet, just a bit dated. It will run almost everything today "well enough." If you want Pixelmator, or to use it to play some graphics-intensive game, of course today's iPad Air 2 is better. But it costs significantly more, too.
I guess I expect more than "well enough" from Apple.
I helped someone yesterday updating an iPhone to iOS 8.1 with a phone near capacity. They needed 610MiB free in order to allow the update to take place via the iTunes app.
My mother is 73. She's never used iTunes and wouldn't have a clue how to update via iTunes. Yes I could sit with her and show her how to do it but I shouldn't have to. Apple is supposedly all about user experience. Being able to update your software old TA is a much better user experience than having to go through iTunes on your computer, specially if you're new to iOS and you've never had to use iTunes. You can see from Apple's own figures that iOS 8 uptake is slow. I would attribute that to two things: lack of space and people waiting to update because of bugs. I told my mother not to update to iOS 8 until more of the bugs are fixed.
Making excues now because i debunked your main argument against 16GB
You didn't debunk anything. Apple offers OTA updates, if 32GB was base storage probably 99.9% of users would have no space issues when updating to a new OS. Do a Twitter search after iOS 8 was released and you'll find A LOT of people complaining about not being able to update due to lack of storage. Heck John Gruber even wrote about it. Throwing out the iTunes card is just making excuses for poor Apple UX.
Just stop. My mother is 85 and she figured out how to use iTunes to update her phone. Looks like IQ is heriditary in your family.
Again you are worring about the 1%. most Apple users have enough brains or money to get there phone updated on itunes. You can keep worring about the 1% but Apple wont and I wont either.
All your senseless drivel about Apple has been debunked by Apples record breaking sales, profits, and stock price. You can cry like a little brat all you want but the bottom line is the consumer has spoken with there cash.
1%. Hardly. iOS 8 is currently on roughly 48% of devices. iOS 7 was over 70% by October. Even John Gruber thinks this is a worrying trend for Apple.
This is what Gruber said about storage space in his iPhone 6 review. Is he a "little brat" too?
But I don’t understand why the entry level storage tier remained at a meager 16 GB. That seems downright punitive given how big panoramic photos and slo-mo HD videos are, and it sticks out like a sore thumb when you look at the three storage tiers together: 32/64/128 looks natural; 16/64/128 looks like a mistake. The original iPhone, seven years and eight product generations ago, had an 8 GB storage tier. The entry-level iPhones 6 are 50 times faster than that original iPhone, but have only twice the storage capacity. That’s just wrong. This is the single-most disappointing aspect of the new phones.
Btw, Apple is actually sending out emails to customers encouraging them to update to iOS 8. I doubt they'd be doing that if they weren't concerned about install figures.
Oh and as far as record sales, profits, stock price blah blah...if you adjust for inflation, IBM had a larger market cap in the 1970s and Microsoft's market cap in 1999 was over $200 billion larger than Apple's is today. Sure Apple is selling more products and making more profit than ever but there is no guarantee that it will last, especially if consumers start thinking Apple is more focused on margins and profits than the best products and customer experience. Apple is much more profitable than Google or Microsoft yet according to 10-K info, they both spend more $$ on "R&D" than Apple does.
Microsoft $11.4B, 13% of revenue (FY14)
Google $8B, 13% of revenue (FY13)
Apple $6B, 3.2% of revenue (FY14)
Oh lord. Who cares what some tool named John Rubber thinks.
Again just pay $99 more and get the 64GB. If you cant afford that then switch to Android or get a 5S 32 GB for $600
And bringing up microsofts market cap during the .com bubble is beyond stupidity. You know those market cap numbers during 1999 were stupidly infated.
And LOL bringing up IBM from almost 50 years ago! That was a totally different era. You should have brought up Dutch East Indian company from the 17th century that was worth $7 trillion, LOL.
Your arguments are weak. Apple is stronger than ever and is absolutely destroying the competition, even a deaf man can see it.
Ah so now John Gruber is a tool. And people on Twitter are crybabies. Real classy there.
Fact, iOS 8 is installed on less than 50% of devices whereas by October iOS 7 had been installed on over 70% of devices. That's a lot more than 1%. Why aren't more people installing iOS 8? If it's not because of lack of storage then it must be due people's concerns over software quality - neither of which make Apple look good.
As we saw in 2012 you can look stronger than ever and Wall Street knocks you down in a heartbeat and people are questioning whether Tim Cook needs to go and spreading rumors that the board is unhappy with the
pace of innovation. Yeah Apple stock is up 42% YTD but Microsoft is up 32%. If Apple is destroying the competition what explains Microsoft's rise to #2 behind Apple in market cap?
I just noticed HP has rolled out some new Windows 8.1 tablets called the Stream 7 and the Stream 8 for $100/$150. They definitely are targeted to the low end of the market but they are most definitely not "pure trash".
The interesting thing about these tablets is that they both come with 1 year of Office 365 Personal which would run at least $70 if purchased alone. That makes these things a real bargain.
Competition, good for everyone.
-kpluck
Its only as real bargain if you actually use it on that device ;-). If the software is transferable to an Ipad, you could just buy it, use the software and give the tablet to your 5 year old to destroy ;-).
Ah so now John Gruber is a tool. And people on Twitter are crybabies. Real classy there.
Fact, iOS 8 is installed on less than 50% of devices whereas by October iOS 7 had been installed on over 70% of devices. That's a lot more than 1%. Why aren't more people installing iOS 8? If it's not because of lack of storage then it must be due people's concerns over software quality - neither of which make Apple look good.
As we saw in 2012 you can look stronger than ever and Wall Street knocks you down in a heartbeat and people are questioning whether Tim Cook needs to go and spreading rumors that the board is unhappy with the
pace of innovation. Yeah Apple stock is up 42% YTD but Microsoft is up 32%. If Apple is destroying the competition what explains Microsoft's rise to #2 behind Apple in market cap?
Right now (14 November) IOS 8 is at 56-57%, while IOS 7 is slipping just under 40%. You have to realize that visually, there was a massive difference between 6 and 7. People tend to react to that more than anything else. Most of the differences of 8 are under the hood. Though seemingly upgrade pace is picking up and by january 1, I would not be surprised if they're at over 80%. Most of the holdouts will be Ipad 2's and Iphone 4S. There are a lot of those devices out there. 8.1.1 is geared towards those devices so maybe that will spur them to upgrade.
What will be driving adoption of 8 will be continuity in people with more than one Apple device and Apple pay.
Comments
It means that people who want in on iOS but don't need the lasted and greatest can get in.
I don't own any iPad so I have no recommendation other than the latest and greatest.
I won't recommend an Android device. Ever. Again, the older iPads could be for kids or for display purposes as in "for more info" kiosks, medical applications that don't need the latest and greatest, menus at restaurants, etc.
Very few people need 64GB either but Apple offers it. When you have people saying they can't upgrade their software because they don't have enough storage that should be a clue that 16GB isn't enough. And if my comments make me an elitist I'm certainly not the only one. Heck even John Gruber questions whether Apple should be selling devices with 16GB anymore. And I'm sorry but it is my belief that some things Apple does are completely contradictory to Jony Ive's statement that its great products first and profits second. In Apple's ad "this is our signature" they ask the question "does this deserve to exist?" I'm sure that was a swipe at Samsung and deservedly so. But quite honestly I think we could ask the same question about the iPad mini 3. It's $100 more than the iPad mini 2 and the only difference is touch ID.Is touch ID really worth $100? I'm not sure many people would say yes. I'm the last person to scream what would Steve do but honestly I think he'd look at the iPad lineup and go nuts. Apple is all about simplicity but there is nothing simple about the current iPad lineup. And not all developers are happy about still having to support the A5 chip first introduced in 2011.
http://www.allenpike.com/2014/the-ipad-zombie/
I can see certain instances where an older device would be just fine (like POS systems or the things you mention). But for the general consumer A5, 512MB RAM and non-retina is just not a great experience and I don't think app developers should have to support it anymore. It's not fair when they get crappy app reviews because their app doesn't work great on old hardware.
I helped someone yesterday updating an iPhone to iOS 8.1 with a phone near capacity. They needed 610MiB free in order to allow the update to take place via the iTunes app.
Let me offer my 2 cents!
IMO, Apple's greatest challenge (and potential) in the next 2 years is to bring [a form of] ApplePay to the masses (billions of people) -- worldwide!
To do that, they need an inexpensive [or subsidized] device that will cost $0-$50 out of pocket.
I don't know if Apple can deliver a profitable iPhone with TouchID for that price -- but I suspect that they can get close -- if they skinny down the hardware, software and basic apps (phone, mail, browser, ApplePay). If memory serves, except for ApplePay, the 4GB iPhone 1, could do that -- the 8GB model certainly could.
I think Apple should try!
And for those who want (or need) more -- let them pay more to get what they want!
How does a Chromebook offer "far more value" than an iPad? They don't have native apps; everything's done in a browser.
No way I'd recommend a 1st gen iPad mini to anyone. I don't know why Apple is selling it other than getting rid of existing stock that might be remaining.
Well, there's going for $250, and that means a lot for a lot of people. It's a nice tablet, just a bit dated. It will run almost everything today "well enough." If you want Pixelmator, or to use it to play some graphics-intensive game, of course today's iPad Air 2 is better. But it costs significantly more, too.
I have an eMate too, though I don't use it anymore, it's in my gadget dsiplay case next to my Psion 5MX and HP 95LX.
You should really use a ChromeBook before passing judgement. Web apps very good now, you can use Adobe Photoshop now, MS Office which is free to use with a OneDrive Account, iCoud apps, etc. Check it out for yourself by going to the ChromeStore. They have native apps now and are starting to get more Android apps as well, soon the entire Android catalog will be available for Chrome OS. If all I had was 250 dollars I would defiantly get a ChromeBook or ChromeBox over an iPad Mini, you can also install Linux, which means Wine, which means Windows applciations as well. Though for 50 bucks more you could have a Nokia 2520, that would be a no brainer for me.
Excuse me but if Apple offers OTA updates you shouldn't have to use iTunes. I know plenty of iOS device owners who have never even used iTunes. To force them to have to go to a computer (assuming they have one), download iTunes and do the update that way is a poor user experience (iTunes on windows is a crap experience and I only use it when I absolutely have to).
I guess I expect more than "well enough" from Apple.
My mother is 73. She's never used iTunes and wouldn't have a clue how to update via iTunes. Yes I could sit with her and show her how to do it but I shouldn't have to. Apple is supposedly all about user experience. Being able to update your software old TA is a much better user experience than having to go through iTunes on your computer, specially if you're new to iOS and you've never had to use iTunes. You can see from Apple's own figures that iOS 8 uptake is slow. I would attribute that to two things: lack of space and people waiting to update because of bugs. I told my mother not to update to iOS 8 until more of the bugs are fixed.
You didn't debunk anything. Apple offers OTA updates, if 32GB was base storage probably 99.9% of users would have no space issues when updating to a new OS. Do a Twitter search after iOS 8 was released and you'll find A LOT of people complaining about not being able to update due to lack of storage. Heck John Gruber even wrote about it. Throwing out the iTunes card is just making excuses for poor Apple UX.
1%.
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/10/08/ios-8-adoption
http://daringfireball.net/2014/10/ios_8_storage_space
This is what Gruber said about storage space in his iPhone 6 review. Is he a "little brat" too?
Btw, Apple is actually sending out emails to customers encouraging them to update to iOS 8. I doubt they'd be doing that if they weren't concerned about install figures.
http://www.macrumors.com/2014/11/05/apple-encouraging-customers-to-use-ios-8/
Oh and as far as record sales, profits, stock price blah blah...if you adjust for inflation, IBM had a larger market cap in the 1970s and Microsoft's market cap in 1999 was over $200 billion larger than Apple's is today. Sure Apple is selling more products and making more profit than ever but there is no guarantee that it will last, especially if consumers start thinking Apple is more focused on margins and profits than the best products and customer experience. Apple is much more profitable than Google or Microsoft yet according to 10-K info, they both spend more $$ on "R&D" than Apple does.
Microsoft $11.4B, 13% of revenue (FY14)
Google $8B, 13% of revenue (FY13)
Apple $6B, 3.2% of revenue (FY14)
Ah so now John Gruber is a tool. And people on Twitter are crybabies. Real classy there.
Fact, iOS 8 is installed on less than 50% of devices whereas by October iOS 7 had been installed on over 70% of devices. That's a lot more than 1%. Why aren't more people installing iOS 8? If it's not because of lack of storage then it must be due people's concerns over software quality - neither of which make Apple look good.
As we saw in 2012 you can look stronger than ever and Wall Street knocks you down in a heartbeat and people are questioning whether Tim Cook needs to go and spreading rumors that the board is unhappy with the
pace of innovation. Yeah Apple stock is up 42% YTD but Microsoft is up 32%. If Apple is destroying the competition what explains Microsoft's rise to #2 behind Apple in market cap?
I just noticed HP has rolled out some new Windows 8.1 tablets called the Stream 7 and the Stream 8 for $100/$150. They definitely are targeted to the low end of the market but they are most definitely not "pure trash".
The interesting thing about these tablets is that they both come with 1 year of Office 365 Personal which would run at least $70 if purchased alone. That makes these things a real bargain.
Competition, good for everyone.
-kpluck
Its only as real bargain if you actually use it on that device ;-). If the software is transferable to an Ipad, you could just buy it, use the software and give the tablet to your 5 year old to destroy ;-).
Ah so now John Gruber is a tool. And people on Twitter are crybabies. Real classy there.
Fact, iOS 8 is installed on less than 50% of devices whereas by October iOS 7 had been installed on over 70% of devices. That's a lot more than 1%. Why aren't more people installing iOS 8? If it's not because of lack of storage then it must be due people's concerns over software quality - neither of which make Apple look good.
As we saw in 2012 you can look stronger than ever and Wall Street knocks you down in a heartbeat and people are questioning whether Tim Cook needs to go and spreading rumors that the board is unhappy with the
pace of innovation. Yeah Apple stock is up 42% YTD but Microsoft is up 32%. If Apple is destroying the competition what explains Microsoft's rise to #2 behind Apple in market cap?
Right now (14 November) IOS 8 is at 56-57%, while IOS 7 is slipping just under 40%. You have to realize that visually, there was a massive difference between 6 and 7. People tend to react to that more than anything else. Most of the differences of 8 are under the hood. Though seemingly upgrade pace is picking up and by january 1, I would not be surprised if they're at over 80%. Most of the holdouts will be Ipad 2's and Iphone 4S. There are a lot of those devices out there. 8.1.1 is geared towards those devices so maybe that will spur them to upgrade.
What will be driving adoption of 8 will be continuity in people with more than one Apple device and Apple pay.