I think Google's vested interest is capturing the hearts and mind of the next generation for Google services, not monetizing Google Apps for Education directly.
I really wonder if these Chromebooks keep your information private.
If I had a child in a school that used Chromebooks I'd demand assurance that no data or information about what my child does ever goes to Google or anyone outside the school. If my child uses a Google Drive account or gets assigned a Gmail account, I want that account to be locked down tight so that nothing or nobody at Google ever has access to information contained in them.
A Chromebook without the ability to mine data is 100% USELESS to Google. They don't exist to make Google money through the sales of hardware or services - they exist to give Google another source of information.
I'd be very interested to see what policies schools have in place for users of Chromebooks (if they even thought about it).
Another take is that Larry Page is once more being charitable to humanity and has absolutely nothing to do with scanning everyone's mails for profiling and adwords, despite this being in gmail's terms and conditions.
Google has done one thing great, a search engine, that was 14 years ago... but it's never too late for everyone to start duck duck and going...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagMan1979
So, where exactly are these 715,000 shitbox pre-alpha equivalent's to Netbooks?
hahahahaha, you win the internet today, lmao, so well put.
For clarification, IDC is a well-known marketing research company that simply publishes corporate press releases from their clients. Publishing client press releases as market research is the primary revenue source for IDC.
IDC employs more than 1,000 analysts. Note that Apple doesn't talk about market breakdown for specific products, there's no way to know from an Apple press release how many widgets were sold to educational institutions, China, people with Amex cards, Apple Store visitors, etc.
By definition, any company like IDC writing research notes that include numbers not available from a corporate press release is doing something else. The report written by IDC analyst Rajani Singh is a pay-per-view item.
A press release is not market research. You don't need a dime to read an Apple press release, they publish them at www.apple.com/pr.
By contrast, PR Newswire is a company that makes its money disseminating corporate press releases to various news agencies. Apple probably doesn't even need to use PR Newswire's services at this point. They could just e-mail the release to a couple dozen major media outlets (NYT, WSJ, FT, Nikkei, Bloomberg, CNN, Thomson Reuters, etc.)
Man, people are mindlessly defensive about Apple here sometimes. I would've preferred that the district settle on iPads or, if they had to have laptops, Apple laptops, but...
My kids' school district is now using 100% Chromebooks after experimenting for three years with a 50/50 mix of iPads and Chromebooks. All four major audiences pushed for the Chromebooks: the taxpayers via the board wanted the device that costs 2/3 less (after adding a keyboard to an iPad), the district's IT department wanted devices that they could meaningfully control and lock down, the students and teachers wanted devices with bigger screens and keyboards. Almost all the apps they use are free and web-based, so the App Store was not really a selling point. All of the etexts they use work just as well as open platforms as on the iPad.
This is not a "ghetto" school district, the devices don't break "every six months," and the teachers and students are smart and capable enough that the district is in the top ten in the state for academic quality.
Taxpayer pressure was a big issue. I hope that those of you who are in favor of more expensive products (and they are more expensive, based on my district's experience and others') are also voting in favor of the millages that would make that possible. People like to demand miracles of education with offering the money necessary to make it happen.
I stood up at the school board and wrote to the town paper to make the case for Apple products, but it doesn't need to be a case based on lies and slander; just tell the truth about why they're better and you might actually convince somebody.
ps. I have nothing good to say about IDC. This is just based on my own district's experience.
Man, people are mindlessly defensive about Apple here sometimes. I would've preferred that the district settle on iPads or, if they had to have laptops, Apple laptops, but...
My kids' school district is now using 100% Chromebooks after experimenting for three years with a 50/50 mix of iPads and Chromebooks. All four major audiences pushed for the Chromebooks: the taxpayers via the board wanted the device that costs 2/3 less (after adding a keyboard to an iPad), the district's IT department wanted devices that they could meaningfully control and lock down, the students and teachers wanted devices with bigger screens and keyboards. Almost all the apps they use are free and web-based, so the App Store was not really a selling point. All of the etexts they use work just as well as open platforms as on the iPad.
This is not a "ghetto" school district, the devices don't break "every six months," and the teachers and students are smart and capable enough that the district is in the top ten in the state for academic quality.
Taxpayer pressure was a big issue. I hope that those of you who are in favor of more expensive products (and they are more expensive, based on my district's experience and others') are also voting in favor of the millages that would make that possible. People like to demand miracles of education with offering the money necessary to make it happen.
I stood up at the school board and wrote to the town paper to make the case for Apple products, but it doesn't need to be a case based on lies and slander; just tell the truth about why they're better and you won't come off as a rabid fanboy and you might actually convince somebody.
ps. I have nothing good to say about IDC. This is just based on my own district's experience.
These arguments are very difficult to believe.
Apple iPad has far more functionality than ChromeOS
Apple iPad can be "locked down"
Apple iPad is arguably the most engaging consumer technology ever created
Apple iPad is very affordable with grants (which my school district received thousands of dollars from Chevron for the purchase of Apple iPads)
I'm not surprised. The iPad is a great device but for students who will do a lot of typing is far from ideal. It's also much more expensive and even more so if you add a keyboard.
I don't want the students doing a lot of typing. I'd want them to use the ipad as their central textbook and lab resource, with the students using their hands to write and solve problems.
Sorry, but the education system doesn't improve because kids skip solving problems in long hand. Learning to write prose, etc., in long hand is a part of learning.
Is cursive writing going to be a lost art with the next generation? Is "reading, 'riting and 'rithmatic" going to be replaced by "reading, rendering and 'rithmatic"?
Maybe it will become just another subject that is taught in Liberal Arts. Oh the Humanities!
Man, people are mindlessly defensive about Apple here sometimes. I would've preferred that the district settle on iPads or, if they had to have laptops, Apple laptops, but...
My kids' school district is now using 100% Chromebooks after experimenting for three years with a 50/50 mix of iPads and Chromebooks. All four major audiences pushed for the Chromebooks: the taxpayers via the board wanted the device that costs 2/3 less (after adding a keyboard to an iPad), the district's IT department wanted devices that they could meaningfully control and lock down, the students and teachers wanted devices with bigger screens and keyboards. Almost all the apps they use are free and web-based, so the App Store was not really a selling point. All of the etexts they use work just as well as open platforms as on the iPad.
This is not a "ghetto" school district, the devices don't break "every six months," and the teachers and students are smart and capable enough that the district is in the top ten in the state for academic quality.
Taxpayer pressure was a big issue. I hope that those of you who are in favor of more expensive products (and they are more expensive, based on my district's experience and others') are also voting in favor of the millages that would make that possible. People like to demand miracles of education with offering the money necessary to make it happen.
I stood up at the school board and wrote to the town paper to make the case for Apple products, but it doesn't need to be a case based on lies and slander; just tell the truth about why they're better and you won't come off as a rabid fanboy and you might actually convince somebody.
ps. I have nothing good to say about IDC. This is just based on my own district's experience.
Control a chromebook? You can manage an iPad very easily and securely but nothing Google/Android sells is controllable. Of course, I would like to know the background of those IT people. If the IT people feel they will be able to patch and update the chromebooks, good luck to them. Find the article that talked about all those cheap tablets coming preinstalled with malware. This is the environment all non-Apple and -Microsoft (ugh I actually gave Microsoft a compliment) devices live in.
A chromebook uses chrome OS, "an operating system based on the Linux kernel and designed by Google to work with web applications and installed applications. Initially, Chrome OS was almost a pure web thin client operating system, with only a handful of "native" applications, but Google gradually began encouraging developers to create "packaged applications", some of which can work offline. In 2014, Google upgraded its Play Store standards for packaged apps, requiring that these applications work offline. Around the same time, Google also announced that Chrome OS would gain the ability to run Android apps natively, by late 2014. In September 2014, App Runtime for Chrome (beta) was launched together with four Android apps being able to run on Chrome OS.
Chrome OS is built upon the open source project called Chromium OS which, unlike Chrome OS, can be compiled from the downloaded source code. Chrome OS is the commercial version installed on specific hardware from Google's manufacturing partners. The launch date for retail hardware featuring Chrome OS was delayed from late 2010 to June 15, 2011, when "Chromebooks" from Samsung, and then Acer shipped in July."
Since you said they almost always use web-based apps, what happens when the external network drops? What happens if they are allowed to take the chromebooks home and they have slow ethernet or none at all? What do they do? Did the IT department show anyone a project plan?
Yes, iPads and Mac laptops cost more initially but they do last longer and work better than the throwaway laptops built by all those PC vendors of the week. Am I an Apple fanboy? No, I just managed a large in-house publishing system built primarily of Macs for over 25 years. I had to justify everything we did and fight all the "experts" who never worked in a publishing environment. Education systems are the same. Lots of talk about budget restrictions but there's always enough money to give themselves a raise and buy the equipment they want to buy.
I can't help but notice many of the criticisms lobbed at the iPad are shared, usually exacerbated by chrome books/Windows. Provisioning and content control are harder to control when not using iOS.
While the keyboard concern is legitimate, students should be transitioning to traditional laptops in later life because neither an iPad or a chromebook is not a substitute for a professional's laptop. Chromebook's over-reliance on internet connectivity opens the door to students bypassing security, an interrupted/stilted work environment and of course android specific malware.
Clearly cost is an issue, but if one is bothering to invest in IT, one should be prepared to spend money on a device that will enhance the learning experience. Otherwise stick to paper, paper is still relevant and requires no special software for teachers to create and present.
Meanwhile this is an IDC report, I wouldn't be surprised if the figures are cherry picked and unrepresentative of the whole environment.
Correction, Chromebook's are the ALPHA versions of Netbooks re-incarnated...
Do you think Chromebooks are even that good?
in my mind, it's not just the hardware that make iPads a good teaching tool, but the whole ecosystem, including the quality of the teaching software.
When I say, "ecosystem" I'm also referring to how Apple makes it easy to load up a group of iPads with the right software and enable them to connect with the teacher's device (iOS or OSX) to interact properly. As a child advances through the learning environment it does become more important that keyboarding skills be acquired and improved, so besides hardware keyboards for the iDevices, laptops are also important to encourage that skill.
All that said, I think more and more new devices will abandon the old (1800's) typewriter keyboard input device... something else has got to come along and finally make that as silly as carbon paper.
Did you hear about Google Classroom ? That's a powerfull tool to create virtual classrooms and asign docs to students, etc.
Just a few things I read on Reddit to put things into perspective
Quote:
It's more than just keyboards and purchase price driving this.
A close friend is the head of IT for a small, rural, K-12 district. He has managed Mac's from pre-OSX days and has a skeleton crew of 3 full time staff including himself managing several hundred computers over 2 or 3 buildings.
The one thing that is abundantly clear from what he has said is that iPad's on anything but a 1-to-1 deployment ( or at least per-classroom ) are a nightmare to manage without a lot of additional staff. Things have gotten better, but the simple fact is that they are not designed and poorly fit into enterprise/shared user deployments. Don't even get him started on attempting to buy paid apps with state funds since without a full-time, trained, person doing the work it's virtually guaranteed to run afoul of state accounting laws.
Chromebooks OTOH, for $20/unit he gets full web-based management and integration into the district wide authentication system. From a user perspective you just grab one and work. There are fewer "apps", but access to a far richer web experience than can be had on the iPad.
Neither are 100% perfect fit for what he would like, but the Chromebooks win from a TCO perspective by orders of magnitude. Because it's not tied to any one company as well, they can do a bid each year and decide between two or three competent vendors based on price and resiliency.
And
Quote:
I agree completely. Plus, they are just easier to manage in a filtering, monitoring point of view, because they are only allowed to use Chrome browser, so there is a easy ways to be completely CIPA compliant, have an excellent blacklist and whitelist to use across all, be able to have specific OU's with different profiles attached to each one, etc. The cloud storage and the ability to work together as entire classes is a great thing, and Google Classrooms is pretty neat, too. There are so many reasons as to why this is happening in the education sector, and, I'm glad it is.
Comments
FTFY.
https://www.google.com/edu/trust/
I think Google's vested interest is capturing the hearts and mind of the next generation for Google services, not monetizing Google Apps for Education directly.
Apple is so doomed...
I really wonder if these Chromebooks keep your information private.
If I had a child in a school that used Chromebooks I'd demand assurance that no data or information about what my child does ever goes to Google or anyone outside the school. If my child uses a Google Drive account or gets assigned a Gmail account, I want that account to be locked down tight so that nothing or nobody at Google ever has access to information contained in them.
A Chromebook without the ability to mine data is 100% USELESS to Google. They don't exist to make Google money through the sales of hardware or services - they exist to give Google another source of information.
I'd be very interested to see what policies schools have in place for users of Chromebooks (if they even thought about it).
Another take is that Larry Page is once more being charitable to humanity and has absolutely nothing to do with scanning everyone's mails for profiling and adwords, despite this being in gmail's terms and conditions.
Google has done one thing great, a search engine, that was 14 years ago... but it's never too late for everyone to start duck duck and going...
So, where exactly are these 715,000 shitbox pre-alpha equivalent's to Netbooks?
hahahahaha, you win the internet today, lmao, so well put.
IDC employs more than 1,000 analysts. Note that Apple doesn't talk about market breakdown for specific products, there's no way to know from an Apple press release how many widgets were sold to educational institutions, China, people with Amex cards, Apple Store visitors, etc.
By definition, any company like IDC writing research notes that include numbers not available from a corporate press release is doing something else. The report written by IDC analyst Rajani Singh is a pay-per-view item.
A press release is not market research. You don't need a dime to read an Apple press release, they publish them at www.apple.com/pr.
By contrast, PR Newswire is a company that makes its money disseminating corporate press releases to various news agencies. Apple probably doesn't even need to use PR Newswire's services at this point. They could just e-mail the release to a couple dozen major media outlets (NYT, WSJ, FT, Nikkei, Bloomberg, CNN, Thomson Reuters, etc.)
Chromebook is an insult to WebKit.
Man, people are mindlessly defensive about Apple here sometimes. I would've preferred that the district settle on iPads or, if they had to have laptops, Apple laptops, but...
My kids' school district is now using 100% Chromebooks after experimenting for three years with a 50/50 mix of iPads and Chromebooks. All four major audiences pushed for the Chromebooks: the taxpayers via the board wanted the device that costs 2/3 less (after adding a keyboard to an iPad), the district's IT department wanted devices that they could meaningfully control and lock down, the students and teachers wanted devices with bigger screens and keyboards. Almost all the apps they use are free and web-based, so the App Store was not really a selling point. All of the etexts they use work just as well as open platforms as on the iPad.
This is not a "ghetto" school district, the devices don't break "every six months," and the teachers and students are smart and capable enough that the district is in the top ten in the state for academic quality.
Taxpayer pressure was a big issue. I hope that those of you who are in favor of more expensive products (and they are more expensive, based on my district's experience and others') are also voting in favor of the millages that would make that possible. People like to demand miracles of education with offering the money necessary to make it happen.
I stood up at the school board and wrote to the town paper to make the case for Apple products, but it doesn't need to be a case based on lies and slander; just tell the truth about why they're better and you might actually convince somebody.
ps. I have nothing good to say about IDC. This is just based on my own district's experience.
Correction, Chromebook's are the ALPHA versions of Netbooks re-incarnated...
Correction, Chromebooks are the Harry Knowles of Netbooks!
These arguments are very difficult to believe.
I don't want the students doing a lot of typing. I'd want them to use the ipad as their central textbook and lab resource, with the students using their hands to write and solve problems.
Sorry, but the education system doesn't improve because kids skip solving problems in long hand. Learning to write prose, etc., in long hand is a part of learning.
Is cursive writing going to be a lost art with the next generation? Is "reading, 'riting and 'rithmatic" going to be replaced by "reading, rendering and 'rithmatic"?
Maybe it will become just another subject that is taught in Liberal Arts. Oh the Humanities!
The march of civilisation continues...
Chromebook is an insult to WebKit.
Is it even webkit, didn't they fork out their brand of webkit that they use for chrome too?
Man, people are mindlessly defensive about Apple here sometimes. I would've preferred that the district settle on iPads or, if they had to have laptops, Apple laptops, but...
My kids' school district is now using 100% Chromebooks after experimenting for three years with a 50/50 mix of iPads and Chromebooks. All four major audiences pushed for the Chromebooks: the taxpayers via the board wanted the device that costs 2/3 less (after adding a keyboard to an iPad), the district's IT department wanted devices that they could meaningfully control and lock down, the students and teachers wanted devices with bigger screens and keyboards. Almost all the apps they use are free and web-based, so the App Store was not really a selling point. All of the etexts they use work just as well as open platforms as on the iPad.
This is not a "ghetto" school district, the devices don't break "every six months," and the teachers and students are smart and capable enough that the district is in the top ten in the state for academic quality.
Taxpayer pressure was a big issue. I hope that those of you who are in favor of more expensive products (and they are more expensive, based on my district's experience and others') are also voting in favor of the millages that would make that possible. People like to demand miracles of education with offering the money necessary to make it happen.
I stood up at the school board and wrote to the town paper to make the case for Apple products, but it doesn't need to be a case based on lies and slander; just tell the truth about why they're better and you won't come off as a rabid fanboy and you might actually convince somebody.
ps. I have nothing good to say about IDC. This is just based on my own district's experience.
Control a chromebook? You can manage an iPad very easily and securely but nothing Google/Android sells is controllable. Of course, I would like to know the background of those IT people. If the IT people feel they will be able to patch and update the chromebooks, good luck to them. Find the article that talked about all those cheap tablets coming preinstalled with malware. This is the environment all non-Apple and -Microsoft (ugh I actually gave Microsoft a compliment) devices live in.
A chromebook uses chrome OS, "an operating system based on the Linux kernel and designed by Google to work with web applications and installed applications. Initially, Chrome OS was almost a pure web thin client operating system, with only a handful of "native" applications, but Google gradually began encouraging developers to create "packaged applications", some of which can work offline. In 2014, Google upgraded its Play Store standards for packaged apps, requiring that these applications work offline. Around the same time, Google also announced that Chrome OS would gain the ability to run Android apps natively, by late 2014. In September 2014, App Runtime for Chrome (beta) was launched together with four Android apps being able to run on Chrome OS.
Chrome OS is built upon the open source project called Chromium OS which, unlike Chrome OS, can be compiled from the downloaded source code. Chrome OS is the commercial version installed on specific hardware from Google's manufacturing partners. The launch date for retail hardware featuring Chrome OS was delayed from late 2010 to June 15, 2011, when "Chromebooks" from Samsung, and then Acer shipped in July."
Since you said they almost always use web-based apps, what happens when the external network drops? What happens if they are allowed to take the chromebooks home and they have slow ethernet or none at all? What do they do? Did the IT department show anyone a project plan?
Yes, iPads and Mac laptops cost more initially but they do last longer and work better than the throwaway laptops built by all those PC vendors of the week. Am I an Apple fanboy? No, I just managed a large in-house publishing system built primarily of Macs for over 25 years. I had to justify everything we did and fight all the "experts" who never worked in a publishing environment. Education systems are the same. Lots of talk about budget restrictions but there's always enough money to give themselves a raise and buy the equipment they want to buy.
While the keyboard concern is legitimate, students should be transitioning to traditional laptops in later life because neither an iPad or a chromebook is not a substitute for a professional's laptop. Chromebook's over-reliance on internet connectivity opens the door to students bypassing security, an interrupted/stilted work environment and of course android specific malware.
Clearly cost is an issue, but if one is bothering to invest in IT, one should be prepared to spend money on a device that will enhance the learning experience. Otherwise stick to paper, paper is still relevant and requires no special software for teachers to create and present.
Meanwhile this is an IDC report, I wouldn't be surprised if the figures are cherry picked and unrepresentative of the whole environment.
in my mind, it's not just the hardware that make iPads a good teaching tool, but the whole ecosystem, including the quality of the teaching software.
When I say, "ecosystem" I'm also referring to how Apple makes it easy to load up a group of iPads with the right software and enable them to connect with the teacher's device (iOS or OSX) to interact properly. As a child advances through the learning environment it does become more important that keyboarding skills be acquired and improved, so besides hardware keyboards for the iDevices, laptops are also important to encourage that skill.
All that said, I think more and more new devices will abandon the old (1800's) typewriter keyboard input device... something else has got to come along and finally make that as silly as carbon paper.
Did you hear about Google Classroom ? That's a powerfull tool to create virtual classrooms and asign docs to students, etc.
Just a few things I read on Reddit to put things into perspective
A close friend is the head of IT for a small, rural, K-12 district. He has managed Mac's from pre-OSX days and has a skeleton crew of 3 full time staff including himself managing several hundred computers over 2 or 3 buildings.
The one thing that is abundantly clear from what he has said is that iPad's on anything but a 1-to-1 deployment ( or at least per-classroom ) are a nightmare to manage without a lot of additional staff. Things have gotten better, but the simple fact is that they are not designed and poorly fit into enterprise/shared user deployments. Don't even get him started on attempting to buy paid apps with state funds since without a full-time, trained, person doing the work it's virtually guaranteed to run afoul of state accounting laws.
Chromebooks OTOH, for $20/unit he gets full web-based management and integration into the district wide authentication system. From a user perspective you just grab one and work. There are fewer "apps", but access to a far richer web experience than can be had on the iPad.
Neither are 100% perfect fit for what he would like, but the Chromebooks win from a TCO perspective by orders of magnitude. Because it's not tied to any one company as well, they can do a bid each year and decide between two or three competent vendors based on price and resiliency.
And