Lots of naysayers here. People what don't believe the stats.
I can see keyboard driven devices as being more useful than an iPad at the moment. Some of Apple's productivity suites are coming along, and there is office of course, and the IBM alliance. However Apple needs specific and free education applications.
I'm not surprised. The iPad is a great device but for students who will do a lot of typing is far from ideal. It's also much more expensive and even more so if you add a keyboard.
I agree. As the story notes, when kids get into later grades they need a keyboard. Apple should be marketing iPads to kids in elementary grades but MacBook Airs for kids in middle and high school. If Apple is pushing iPads for older kids, they're making a mistake.
I think the mistake that districts might end up making is to buy the cheapest, crappiest Chromebooks. If they race to the bottom they might be disappointed.
As someone who had kids in a school with one to one iPad program, I can believe this. I could even accept it, IF the school districts took the savings and applied it to the implementation and upkeep of the technology. The problem is, they won't. What happens is these school districts do not go all in, and provide the needed resource to keep these programs running and working efficiently. They dump the upkeep, implementation, etc on existing teachers, provide minimal support (and usually that is dumped on an existing person) to keep costs down. I understand why they do this, but the fact is if they do not do it right, they are better off not doing it at all. They roll out these devices, with little support and/or training, and then when the expected results are not achieved, the program fire is gone, and either abandoned, or pushed aside, and those that didn't want to accept the change can say "I told you so"
Microsoft should probably be more worried than Apple (and I think the Scroogled campaign against Chromebooks shows they are) but I don't think Apple should take anything for granted and should fight to be THE tech company in the classroom. If keyboards are the issue maybe keep around a non-retina version of the Air and sell it at a discount to schools. A MBA would be a 1000% better than any cheap POS Chromebook (or Windows equivalent).
I don't want the students doing a lot of typing. I'd want them to use the ipad as their central textbook and lab resource, with the students using their hands to write and solve problems.
Sorry, but the education system doesn't improve because kids skip solving problems in long hand. Learning to write prose, etc., in long hand is a part of learning.
Writing is one of the most vital skills our kids need to learn so yes typing and papers are crucial. I'm not taking about solving problems with prose.
Also there are sadly very few text books on the iPad. I wish there were but alas they are still hard books for the vast majority.
I agree. As the story notes, when kids get into later grades they need a keyboard. Apple should be marketing iPads to kids in elementary grades but MacBook Airs for kids in middle and high school. If Apple is pushing iPads for older kids, they're making a mistake.
I think the mistake that districts might end up making is to buy the cheapest, crappiest Chromebooks. If they race to the bottom they might be disappointed.
I agree. The only thing is that a cash strapped School district can far more easily buy a thousand Chromebooks at $200 that the same number of Mac airs at $1000 a pop. Just not realistic on today's tight budgets
It is unclear why apple has not released an inexpensive mac for school accounts... This would really negate this whole issue of crippled chromebooks. A "toughbook" with all surfaces made purely for durablity instead of purely aesthetics would be nice. A mac with surfaces made specifically for disposable covers would be best.
If i was a student today, i would like the macbook air in my backpack. It is significantly more functional than the ipad when sitting at a desk. I would tune it for maximum battery life since that is the core concern besides cost. since it unlikely schools would be using processor intensive apps like games, processing power is not the issue at all obviously.
Even an apple laptop from 3 years ago is better than a chromebook. Schools should be able to requisition older model laptops at least. Dont forget, macs come with a majority of the software you already need and they have limited security concerns when the school controls the device admin account.
On the other hand, maybe schools should just have kids get a keyboard on their own if they want one...
As someone who had kids in a school with one to one iPad program, I can believe this. I could even accept it, IF the school districts took the savings and applied it to the implementation and upkeep of the technology. The problem is, they won't. What happens is these school districts do not go all in, and provide the needed resource to keep these programs running and working efficiently. They dump the upkeep, implementation, etc on existing teachers, provide minimal support (and usually that is dumped on an existing person) to keep costs down. I understand why they do this, but the fact is if they do not do it right, they are better off not doing it at all. They roll out these devices, with little support and/or training, and then when the expected results are not achieved, the program fire is gone, and either abandoned, or pushed aside, and those that didn't want to accept the change can say "I told you so"
A thousand times "yup!"
I think part of this is due to the fact that historically most research in education has been fairly terrible -- more navel gazing than rigorous evaluation of what works and what doesn't. Consequently people don't really know if anything is going to work, so they never fully implement it, and they keep switching between the latest fads.
Within the last 15 years or so the quality of *some* research in education has improved, but there's still a long way to go. We now have things like the What Works Clearinghouse (http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/), which is a nice step in the right direction, but has so much room for improvement.
Aside from privacy, junk software, junk os, no 3rd party apps, pretty shitty hardware and built quality what's the horizon of use for these pieces of crap?
I got my MEng in 2011 still using a powerbook g4 12" and only replaced it with a 11" air a couple of months AFTER. A great little device that had already been used for upwards of 4 years by another fella before I bought it and about 6 years by myself... My mom's still using her gen 1 iPad, and proud to say week 4 of production or something, 6 years on, and I really had to convince her to get the new one so she can send stuff to her TV.
The first netbook I bought as a gift for my sister, who still uses a 2006 iMac flying on SL and a new SSD, has been gathering dust after 6 months of sluggish as hell use. I tried finding some use for it, but to replace the crap ssd you need more than to fix my g4, and I remembered Steve, again, how you simply can't type on these pieces of shit unless you you sandpaper your fingers.
I have never been impressed with how IDC does their research so I question their numbers and their conclusions. They tend to make inferences that I'm not sure are valid.
Like the LAUSD thing. No actual numbers about how many non iPads were bought and they skip mentioning that the real issue was not the tech so much as questions about the validity of the process. It seems that the guy that wrote the list of requirements fine tuned it to be sure iPads were picked cause he had Apple stock. And apparently someone else in the office was buddies with that one publisher and did similar moves to make sure they were picked (and this happened with hard cover selection as well). But none of this is mentioned because they want to infer that iPads are crappy compared to chromebooks.
And then let's looks at when these numbers are from. Third quarter. Regardless of whether that is third quarter cslender or fiscal the timing is a tad odd. That's overlapping with summer and it's simply possible that those buying iPads did it earlier so they have the summer to image etc them. Because as it happens it takes a tad longer to prep an iPad than a chromebook.
Also why were they buying these chromebooks. Perhaps to replace broken ones. And perhaps the reason for seeing fewer institution sales is because many of the schools using iPads are private and the kids have to buy their own. Thus it is being used just not bought by the school. These are the sorts of things IDC is known to ignore.
I have kids in school with school issued iPad Air's. I can see why some school districts want the cheaper Chromebook instead. Many of the education software on the iPads were repackaged, older Flash content, they don't work very well on the iPad and crashes a lot.
But I still don't trust IDC numbers. For all we know, the Chromebook were purchased to replace netbooks and laptops. Also this is the same IDC that predicted Windows phone to dominate by 2014.
As someone who had kids in a school with one to one iPad program, I can believe this. I could even accept it, IF the school districts took the savings and applied it to the implementation and upkeep of the technology. The problem is, they won't.
Some do. My siblings teach in districts that do it right. But I agree that isn't always the case.
Heck look at LAUSD. A big reason they got so much bad press was the hacking of the security profiles. Not an Apple issue but Apple got a black eye over it. They were slapped with blame over LAUSD choosing to use a third party security system that was removable by any user. Including the kids. Oops. Because they didn't bother to spend the time to really research the issues. Had they they would have known about this flaw and insisted on the companies giving them a way to lock down that flle.
Writing is one of the most vital skills our kids need to learn so yes typing and papers are crucial. I'm not taking about solving problems with prose.
I disagree. WRITING isn't the issue. Thinking and communicating is the issue. That's what kids need to be taught before we get hung on the forms of communication. But schools are mostly too bust teaching to tests to worry about those skills
Also there are sadly very few text books on the iPad. I wish there were but alas they are still hard books for the vast majority.
In the hard cover world there are only like 5 textbook publishers. And there are plenty of tools for teaching for the iPad. Teachers just don't want to use them because they require more work over just reading from a text book. Or they don't know how to us them, or even find them
"Bram Bout, director of Google for Education, said the company will no longer scan Gmail in Apps for Education, and won’t collect or use student data from Apps for Education for advertising purposes."
Cost cost cost. That's the driving force behind Chromebooks vs Mac Airs and even iPads. You can get at least 5 Chromebooks for one Air. You can get two for one iPad.
IPads have many great uses. In education I would say currently they have a lot more potential than functional use. Education apps are not nearly as robust as they should/need to be. Textbooks are still mostly paper hard cover behemoths. For browsing many of the education sites are still using flash which negates the iPad from being used with those sites. No keyboard is a killer for kids in third grade and up. Even the add on keyboards are not great for lots of typing.
In short the iPad needs a lot of work in many areas to be useful in schools. They need better apps, kid more textbooks available and a way to deal with the flash issue on sites the kids need (no I am not advocating iPads allowing flash). Apple could release a lower priced education Mac that would be a great thing for schools and students but unless they get a model in the $400 to $500 range cash strapped schools will go for the cheaper Chromebooks all day long. Sad but that's the fiscal reality today.
I disagree. WRITING isn't the issue. Thinking and communicating is the issue. That's what kids need to be taught before we get hung on the forms of communication. But schools are mostly too bust teaching to tests to worry about those skills
In the hard cover world there are only like 5 textbook publishers. And there are plenty of tools for teaching for the iPad. Teachers just don't want to use them because they require more work over just reading from a text book. Or they don't know how to us them, or even find them
Writing is a vital skill to have in the business world. Kids today are much less able to write grammatically correct and coherent papers. That is having a big effect on their employability.
Most iPad apps in the education area are geared toward the lower grades.
I'm not surprised. The iPad is a great device but for students who will do a lot of typing is far from ideal. It's also much more expensive and even more so if you add a keyboard.
I'm not either. I've been saying that it seems dumb to buy kids iPads for school!!! Buy Chromebooks. They're CHEAP, have a real keyboard, and are more then good enough to do school work on. I have no idea how many games you can get for those things?!?!?! ipads are great, and you can use any Bluetooth Keyboard with them, but in the real world, for Kids use. the Chromebook makes much more sense. All in one at a lower price point and limited in what you can do with it. The iPad, you end up playing games on it instead of school work.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with a pen and paper to do school work on.
Comments
Lots of naysayers here. People what don't believe the stats.
I can see keyboard driven devices as being more useful than an iPad at the moment. Some of Apple's productivity suites are coming along, and there is office of course, and the IBM alliance. However Apple needs specific and free education applications.
I'm not surprised. The iPad is a great device but for students who will do a lot of typing is far from ideal. It's also much more expensive and even more so if you add a keyboard.
I agree. As the story notes, when kids get into later grades they need a keyboard. Apple should be marketing iPads to kids in elementary grades but MacBook Airs for kids in middle and high school. If Apple is pushing iPads for older kids, they're making a mistake.
I think the mistake that districts might end up making is to buy the cheapest, crappiest Chromebooks. If they race to the bottom they might be disappointed.
As someone who had kids in a school with one to one iPad program, I can believe this. I could even accept it, IF the school districts took the savings and applied it to the implementation and upkeep of the technology. The problem is, they won't. What happens is these school districts do not go all in, and provide the needed resource to keep these programs running and working efficiently. They dump the upkeep, implementation, etc on existing teachers, provide minimal support (and usually that is dumped on an existing person) to keep costs down. I understand why they do this, but the fact is if they do not do it right, they are better off not doing it at all. They roll out these devices, with little support and/or training, and then when the expected results are not achieved, the program fire is gone, and either abandoned, or pushed aside, and those that didn't want to accept the change can say "I told you so"
Writing is one of the most vital skills our kids need to learn so yes typing and papers are crucial. I'm not taking about solving problems with prose.
Also there are sadly very few text books on the iPad. I wish there were but alas they are still hard books for the vast majority.
I agree. The only thing is that a cash strapped School district can far more easily buy a thousand Chromebooks at $200 that the same number of Mac airs at $1000 a pop. Just not realistic on today's tight budgets
Easy to understand- they cost much less and do relatively the same thing but also includes a keyboard and at no extra cost.
A no-brainer.
If i was a student today, i would like the macbook air in my backpack. It is significantly more functional than the ipad when sitting at a desk. I would tune it for maximum battery life since that is the core concern besides cost. since it unlikely schools would be using processor intensive apps like games, processing power is not the issue at all obviously.
Even an apple laptop from 3 years ago is better than a chromebook. Schools should be able to requisition older model laptops at least. Dont forget, macs come with a majority of the software you already need and they have limited security concerns when the school controls the device admin account.
On the other hand, maybe schools should just have kids get a keyboard on their own if they want one...
As someone who had kids in a school with one to one iPad program, I can believe this. I could even accept it, IF the school districts took the savings and applied it to the implementation and upkeep of the technology. The problem is, they won't. What happens is these school districts do not go all in, and provide the needed resource to keep these programs running and working efficiently. They dump the upkeep, implementation, etc on existing teachers, provide minimal support (and usually that is dumped on an existing person) to keep costs down. I understand why they do this, but the fact is if they do not do it right, they are better off not doing it at all. They roll out these devices, with little support and/or training, and then when the expected results are not achieved, the program fire is gone, and either abandoned, or pushed aside, and those that didn't want to accept the change can say "I told you so"
A thousand times "yup!"
I think part of this is due to the fact that historically most research in education has been fairly terrible -- more navel gazing than rigorous evaluation of what works and what doesn't. Consequently people don't really know if anything is going to work, so they never fully implement it, and they keep switching between the latest fads.
Within the last 15 years or so the quality of *some* research in education has improved, but there's still a long way to go. We now have things like the What Works Clearinghouse (http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/), which is a nice step in the right direction, but has so much room for improvement.
Aside from privacy, junk software, junk os, no 3rd party apps, pretty shitty hardware and built quality what's the horizon of use for these pieces of crap?
I got my MEng in 2011 still using a powerbook g4 12" and only replaced it with a 11" air a couple of months AFTER. A great little device that had already been used for upwards of 4 years by another fella before I bought it and about 6 years by myself... My mom's still using her gen 1 iPad, and proud to say week 4 of production or something, 6 years on, and I really had to convince her to get the new one so she can send stuff to her TV.
The first netbook I bought as a gift for my sister, who still uses a 2006 iMac flying on SL and a new SSD, has been gathering dust after 6 months of sluggish as hell use. I tried finding some use for it, but to replace the crap ssd you need more than to fix my g4, and I remembered Steve, again, how you simply can't type on these pieces of shit unless you you sandpaper your fingers.
Good luck to anyone with a chromebook...
Does Apple really use refurbished parts?
After watching this,
http://ezrd.me/r/?rd=083K6Ofm
it makes me think..
Like the LAUSD thing. No actual numbers about how many non iPads were bought and they skip mentioning that the real issue was not the tech so much as questions about the validity of the process. It seems that the guy that wrote the list of requirements fine tuned it to be sure iPads were picked cause he had Apple stock. And apparently someone else in the office was buddies with that one publisher and did similar moves to make sure they were picked (and this happened with hard cover selection as well). But none of this is mentioned because they want to infer that iPads are crappy compared to chromebooks.
And then let's looks at when these numbers are from. Third quarter. Regardless of whether that is third quarter cslender or fiscal the timing is a tad odd. That's overlapping with summer and it's simply possible that those buying iPads did it earlier so they have the summer to image etc them. Because as it happens it takes a tad longer to prep an iPad than a chromebook.
Also why were they buying these chromebooks. Perhaps to replace broken ones. And perhaps the reason for seeing fewer institution sales is because many of the schools using iPads are private and the kids have to buy their own. Thus it is being used just not bought by the school. These are the sorts of things IDC is known to ignore.
I have kids in school with school issued iPad Air's. I can see why some school districts want the cheaper Chromebook instead. Many of the education software on the iPads were repackaged, older Flash content, they don't work very well on the iPad and crashes a lot.
But I still don't trust IDC numbers. For all we know, the Chromebook were purchased to replace netbooks and laptops. Also this is the same IDC that predicted Windows phone to dominate by 2014.
Some do. My siblings teach in districts that do it right. But I agree that isn't always the case.
Heck look at LAUSD. A big reason they got so much bad press was the hacking of the security profiles. Not an Apple issue but Apple got a black eye over it. They were slapped with blame over LAUSD choosing to use a third party security system that was removable by any user. Including the kids. Oops. Because they didn't bother to spend the time to really research the issues. Had they they would have known about this flaw and insisted on the companies giving them a way to lock down that flle.
I disagree. WRITING isn't the issue. Thinking and communicating is the issue. That's what kids need to be taught before we get hung on the forms of communication. But schools are mostly too bust teaching to tests to worry about those skills
In the hard cover world there are only like 5 textbook publishers. And there are plenty of tools for teaching for the iPad. Teachers just don't want to use them because they require more work over just reading from a text book. Or they don't know how to us them, or even find them
See http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/04/30/google-stops-scanning-student-gmail-accounts-for-ads/?mod=WSJ_WSJ_News_BlogsModule
"Bram Bout, director of Google for Education, said the company will no longer scan Gmail in Apps for Education, and won’t collect or use student data from Apps for Education for advertising purposes."
IPads have many great uses. In education I would say currently they have a lot more potential than functional use. Education apps are not nearly as robust as they should/need to be. Textbooks are still mostly paper hard cover behemoths. For browsing many of the education sites are still using flash which negates the iPad from being used with those sites. No keyboard is a killer for kids in third grade and up. Even the add on keyboards are not great for lots of typing.
In short the iPad needs a lot of work in many areas to be useful in schools. They need better apps, kid more textbooks available and a way to deal with the flash issue on sites the kids need (no I am not advocating iPads allowing flash). Apple could release a lower priced education Mac that would be a great thing for schools and students but unless they get a model in the $400 to $500 range cash strapped schools will go for the cheaper Chromebooks all day long. Sad but that's the fiscal reality today.
Writing is a vital skill to have in the business world. Kids today are much less able to write grammatically correct and coherent papers. That is having a big effect on their employability.
Most iPad apps in the education area are geared toward the lower grades.
I'm not surprised. The iPad is a great device but for students who will do a lot of typing is far from ideal. It's also much more expensive and even more so if you add a keyboard.
I'm not either. I've been saying that it seems dumb to buy kids iPads for school!!! Buy Chromebooks. They're CHEAP, have a real keyboard, and are more then good enough to do school work on. I have no idea how many games you can get for those things?!?!?! ipads are great, and you can use any Bluetooth Keyboard with them, but in the real world, for Kids use. the Chromebook makes much more sense. All in one at a lower price point and limited in what you can do with it. The iPad, you end up playing games on it instead of school work.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with a pen and paper to do school work on.
Funny, has anyone asked the kids which they prefer and which they are more productive with?
Most of the people on this forum seem to blindly think the iPad is better. Depends.
Chromebooks sound like a win in a lot of ways, although there are areas where iPads would be just fine.
There is a lot of FUD on Chromebooks in this thread. ChromeBooks work just fine. I use mine 99% of the time over the MacBook Pro.