Serious question, not trolling, why does Apple continue to sell the outdated 2012 MD101 MB Pro?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited June 2015

I really wonder why they sell what is basically a 2011 laptop model (2012 refresh only added USB 3.0, nothing drastic). This thing has a low res 1200x800 screen, 3rd Gen Intel, a slow traditional 5400RPM HDD, and weighs more than 5lbs. They sell it for $1099 currently. The Retina Pro is only $1234 on sale and is miles ahead in features, speed, etc. 

They are just milking uneducated customers into buying an outdated product because "It has a CD Drive." I work part-time at Best Buy and that's honestly the one thing people say to me before I divert them to the Retina instead. They just say, "Well this has a CD Drive so isn't it better"? SMH. I'd even consider the MB Air with the 1440x900 screen even with a clocked down processor. It has an SSD and is a 2014 model laptop.

Look, I don't have a problem with them selling it for just that reason. But if you are going to sell it, at least update it to Haswell and a 1920x1080 screen for a $1000+ computer.

When external CD/DVD drives can be purchased for $30 and used with the much better Retina Pro, why would anyone in their right mind buy the 2012 Pro for solely that reason?

I am in no way trolling, I honestly want to know the answer to this question, so please don't delete this thread.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 16

    Cheaper. The retina models aren’t down to where the pre-retina unibodies were yet. The longer they sell it, the greater a percentage of every sell is pure profit.

     

    Hopefully it’ll be dropped soon, if only because that’ll mean the retina laptops will come down in price.

  • Reply 2 of 16
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member

    Because there are still some people that don't like having to carry around an additional piece of equipment when it can easily be built in.

  • Reply 3 of 16
    Originally Posted by MacTac View Post

    Because there are still some people that think the 1990s aren’t over.

     

    *cough* ;)

  • Reply 4 of 16
    mactac wrote: »
    Because there are still some people that don't like having to carry around an additional piece of equipment when it can easily be built in.

    So you would use 3yr old outdated hardware for a premium price instead of paying $150 more for the Retina Pro? That's logical
  • Reply 5 of 16
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,566moderator
    deepen03 wrote: »
    So you would use 3yr old outdated hardware for a premium price instead of paying $150 more for the Retina Pro? That's logical

    It would be logical to some people as it's still cheaper, despite being older components. The cheaper iPads have older components too.

    I think one appeal of the old model is for film editors who can put a 2TB drive in cheaply. I personally think that using an external HDD would be the better route there as I think an SSD is much better for the system drive but not everyone sees that benefit.

    I expected them to get rid of it this year but if they plan to replace the old Airs and rMBP with a Retina Air, that would be the better time to do it. A $1299 14"/15" Retina Air with 256GB SSD and 8GB RAM could be upgraded to 512GB for $300 and you'd then get a cheap external drive to supplement the space - 2TB can be had under $100. That means you get a $1700 Retina Air with comparable capacity to a $1250 cMBP but much faster and better display.

    I don't see the optical drive being the selling point for most people as the Air is Apple's best-selling laptop.

    The movie industry could help by selling more movies on SD cards. Disney tried that in Japan:

    http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/22/disney-to-offer-films-on-microsd-cards-consumers-to-pass-on-by/

    The premium was around the same premium they put on Blu-Ray vs DVD. 16GB cards are under $5 retail. Streaming is the way forward but it's hard to give movies as gifts that way. A 16GB card would allow 24Mbps bitrate, which is fine for HD content. It would allow 4K with H.265. The benefit with SD cards is they can boost the size based on the movie. If they have a TV series, they can use a 64GB card and it will still work in the players. It will also load instantly and playback silently as well as run with lower power.
  • Reply 6 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    It would be logical to some people as it's still cheaper, despite being older components. The cheaper iPads have older components too.



    I think one appeal of the old model is for film editors who can put a 2TB drive in cheaply. I personally think that using an external HDD would be the better route there as I think an SSD is much better for the system drive but not everyone sees that benefit.



    I expected them to get rid of it this year but if they plan to replace the old Airs and rMBP with a Retina Air, that would be the better time to do it. A $1299 14"/15" Retina Air with 256GB SSD and 8GB RAM could be upgraded to 512GB for $300 and you'd then get a cheap external drive to supplement the space - 2TB can be had under $100. That means you get a $1700 Retina Air with comparable capacity to a $1250 cMBP but much faster and better display.



    I don't see the optical drive being the selling point for most people as the Air is Apple's best-selling laptop.



    The movie industry could help by selling more movies on SD cards. Disney tried that in Japan:



    http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/22/disney-to-offer-films-on-microsd-cards-consumers-to-pass-on-by/



    The premium was around the same premium they put on Blu-Ray vs DVD. 16GB cards are under $5 retail. Streaming is the way forward but it's hard to give movies as gifts that way. A 16GB card would allow 24Mbps bitrate, which is fine for HD content. It would allow 4K with H.265. The benefit with SD cards is they can boost the size based on the movie. If they have a TV series, they can use a 64GB card and it will still work in the players. It will also load instantly and playback silently as well as run with lower power.

     

    I agree with almost everything you say.. however there already is a Retina Air.. and that's the Pro with Retina.. The Air isn't even that much thinner or lighter anymore. The 13" Air is 2.96lbs, and the Retina Pro is 3.46lbs, according to Apple.com. I don't think a 0.5lb difference matters enough for them to make a Retina Air..

     

    And no the optical drive isn't necessary for educated buyers.. However, some people still think a CD/DVD drive is an advantage for some odd reason. This applies to Windows ultrabooks as well. I haven't touched an optical disc in months. I listen to music and watch movies digitally on my ASUS Zenbook and S5

     

    Bottom line, IMO, Apple needs to kill the old Pro asap. It's cannibalizing the Pro Retina sales a little bit, if not drastic. You can't call a product a "PRO" when it has 3 year old hardware with a low res screen at 2009 standards.

  • Reply 7 of 16
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,566moderator
    deepen03 wrote: »
    I don't think a 0.5lb difference matters enough for them to make a Retina Air..

    That's the point though, there's no reason to sell both any more. The 128GB 13" Air with 8GB RAM is $1099. The 128GB 13" Pro with 8GB is $1299.

    If you put 256GB and 8GB RAM into the 13" Air, it reaches $1299. If Apple can add 128GB SSD into the $1299 rMBP, the Air model is pointless. The rMBP can just get the new low power Broadwell chips, made fanless and as light as the Air, maybe lighter if they can cut the battery down. They can shrink the power supply down too.
    deepen03 wrote: »
    some people still think a CD/DVD drive is an advantage for some odd reason. This applies to Windows ultrabooks as well. I haven't touched an optical disc in months. I listen to music and watch movies digitally on my ASUS Zenbook and S5

    I don't use optical discs either but some people will have large DVD libraries, they might rent movies by snail mail or still like to author their own movies to DVD videos. Say a family has young kids that they want a basic video player for them, they get a $200 netbook and let them watch kids DVDs in their room while mom and dad watches a movie on the big TV. It lets them watch the movies when travelling too. Obviously computer literate people know how to rip DVDs and transfer them over but some households don't have the higher-end computer to do that and don't know how to encode movies. Nor do they have the time to do it. Streaming won't work reliably in a car, plane or train for a long time, if ever.
    deepen03 wrote: »
    Apple needs to kill the old Pro asap. It's cannibalizing the Pro Retina sales a little bit, if not drastic. You can't call a product a "PRO" when it has 3 year old hardware with a low res screen at 2009 standards.

    I think so too but removing it just leaves a price gap until they can make a compelling product to fill that space.
  • Reply 8 of 16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    That's the point though, there's no reason to sell both any more. The 128GB 13" Air with 8GB RAM is $1099. The 128GB 13" Pro with 8GB is $1299.



    If you put 256GB and 8GB RAM into the 13" Air, it reaches $1299. If Apple can add 128GB SSD into the $1299 rMBP, the Air model is pointless. The rMBP can just get the new low power Broadwell chips, made fanless and as light as the Air, maybe lighter if they can cut the battery down. They can shrink the power supply down too.

    I don't use optical discs either but some people will have large DVD libraries, they might rent movies by snail mail or still like to author their own movies to DVD videos. Say a family has young kids that they want a basic video player for them, they get a $200 netbook and let them watch kids DVDs in their room while mom and dad watches a movie on the big TV. It lets them watch the movies when travelling too. Obviously computer literate people know how to rip DVDs and transfer them over but some households don't have the higher-end computer to do that and don't know how to encode movies. Nor do they have the time to do it. Streaming won't work reliably in a car, plane or train for a long time, if ever.

    I think so too but removing it just leaves a price gap until they can make a compelling product to fill that space.

     

    OK, so your first point: That's exactly my issue with Apple's product line right now. The upgraded Air is at rMBP pricing, which is absolutely ridiculous. First thing they should do in my opinion, is make the measly 1.4ghz Air i5 a little faster, at least at 1.9 like most Windows PCs with similar processors. I don't see them putting Broadwell into the Pro, that will just go into the upgraded Air in Spring, just like they do every year with March/April upgrades. 

     

    As for the CD/DVD issue, ok fine, I have no issue with them selling one with CD/DVD, but at least upgrade the hardware of the old Pro, as I said in my thread opener. 

     

    The price gap argument is inaccurate. The 11" Air is $799, 13" is $999, a 256GB Air is $1199, then $100 more gets you a 128GB Pro with Retina. Apple can easily get rid of the MD101 and nobody would care honestly.

     

    This is what I would do:

     

    If you want to keep the CD/DVD Mac, then upgrade it with these specs:

     

    4th Gen Intel i5 4210 (or whatever custom chip Apple uses)

    1920x1080 screen

    Blu-Ray/CD/DVD Drive (probably wouldn't happen due to Sony rights I believe)

    Standard 500GB/Hybrid SSD drive to make the storage people happy

    8GB Ram

    Price: $1099

  • Reply 9 of 16
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,566moderator
    deepen03 wrote: »
    I don't see them putting Broadwell into the Pro, that will just go into the upgraded Air in Spring, just like they do every year with March/April upgrades.

    The 13" rMBP isn't much faster than the Air. If they combine them into a single model, there would just be a Retina Macbook (Air) in say 12" and 14"/15" and then the 15" rMBP would get the quad-core Broadwell in the Summer.
    deepen03 wrote: »
    As for the CD/DVD issue, ok fine, I have no issue with them selling one with CD/DVD, but at least upgrade the hardware of the old Pro, as I said in my thread opener.

    I'm with you on discontinuing it, I was just saying why I think some people might buy one. It needs to go, it's a legacy design. I suspect it will at the Broadwell update.
  • Reply 10 of 16
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    The 13" rMBP isn't much faster than the Air. If they combine them into a single model, there would just be a Retina Macbook (Air) in say 12" and 14"/15" and then the 15" rMBP would get the quad-core Broadwell in the Summer.

    I'm with you on discontinuing it, I was just saying why I think some people might buy one. It needs to go, it's a legacy design. I suspect it will at the Broadwell update.





    I don't see Apple implementing Broadwell anytime til 2016.. And it will only go into the Air. The Core M-70 is not that fast, only has a 1.2Ghz base speed and 2.6 max with turboboost, so not really "Pro" material. That was one common issue of the Yoga Pro 3, the slow speed. Of course it does use a chip that uses only 4 watts vs. the 15watts of the i7 4510, but still not rMBP quality.

  • Reply 11 of 16
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,566moderator
    deepen03 wrote: »
    I don't see Apple implementing Broadwell anytime til 2016.. And it will only go into the Air. The Core M-70 is not that fast, only has a 1.2Ghz base speed and 2.6 max with turboboost, so not really "Pro" material. That was one common issue of the Yoga Pro 3, the slow speed. Of course it does use a chip that uses only 4 watts vs. the 15watts of the i7 4510, but still not rMBP quality.

    Broadwell is now coming early 2015, Intel's pushing ahead with Skylake in the 2nd half of the year, which is the successor to Broadwell. If Apple goes with Broadwell at all, it will be early 2015 and Skylake in either late 2015 or early 2016. If Broadwell-Y doesn't perform well enough for a Retina display and high enough CPU performance, Skylake-Y will probably make up for it.
  • Reply 12 of 16
    mactacmactac Posts: 315member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    *cough* ;)


     

    Hey, if you don't want to get work and make money it's no skin off my teeth.

    There are plenty of industries and trades that have specifications that still require record documentation to be stored and delivered on optical disc.

    I'm reviewing the specs on a new construction job right now.

    Smaller companies can't afford server farms and hard copy is too bulky.

    But flash drives aren't the way to go either. Too many different sizes and more difficult to store and file because of it.

    And it's not just the companies, it's regulatory and permitting sites too like many fire departments that require plans be delivered on both hard copy and disc.

    So somewhere you still have to have an ODD.

     

    If you know you need it and know it is required, built in is still handy.

  • Reply 13 of 16

    So February 2015, and still no word if Apple is discontinuing this model. Lets see maybe during the Macbook Air Refresh event in March we might get some info. I would say Air, Retina Air and Retina Pro should be the new models going forward. With all models receiving a Broadwell update.

  • Reply 14 of 16
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,566moderator
    deepen03 wrote: »
    I would say Air, Retina Air and Retina Pro should be the new models going forward. With all models receiving a Broadwell update.

    Broadwell-h (quad-i7 for 15" MBP) has been delayed too much, it looks like Intel is going to Skylake:

    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/12/08/did-intel-corporation-just-cancel-broadwell-h-and.aspx
    http://www.extremetech.com/computing/198783-fresh-details-leak-on-intel-skylake-chipsets-processors

    I'd say the whole lineup will be refreshed in the 2nd half of the year. The Air, MBP and iMac will get Skylake with DDR4, PCIe4 and TB3. If Intel skips Broadwell EP then the MP would be early 2016, if not maybe it can just get TB3 with Broadwell EP. 5K Retina Thunderbolt display too $1299-1499.

    Their Watch is the big thing coming in the first half of the year and maybe there can be a minor refresh to the Air to Broadwell-U but just a CPU update.
  • Reply 15 of 16
    deepen03deepen03 Posts: 101member

    IT LIVES! lol I am really hoping for a WWDC discontinuation.. Please Apple kill this thing. When the new Macbook came out last month, Best Buy had the nerve to remove the 11inch Air off of the Apple table, while keeping the lowly MD101 there. Instead, they could have done 11inch Air, 13 inch Air and New Macbook.

  • Reply 16 of 16
    deepen03deepen03 Posts: 101member

    So the Apple website kicked it down to the bottom of the Buy page for Macbook Pro.. Looks like they are slowly getting it out of customer's minds. It used to be the first one shown on the Macbook Pro page on the left side and finally got the boot to the bottom with the site re-design.

     

    Please Apple kill this thing now.

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