I had finger print sensors on most of my PC notebooks for years. Maybe even a decade. How is this going to be any different?
It is the OS that needs to support it along with a strong developer kit that others can use to add it to apps.
In my opinion Apple did it the right way, they launched it supporting only Apple, tested it for a year and then released it to the public a year later.
I can buy into the (traditional, non-magic) mouse scenario, and the keyboard too.
But for laptop usage, why not place the sensor adjacent to the trackpad, rather than inside it? I mean, the trackpads on most non-Apple laptops are tiny to begin with... and the redundant mouse buttons are similarly adjacent...
Yes, you are right. Placing the sensor within the trackpad is pointless. On a laptop there's plenty of space outside the trackpad.
Beat Apple to the punch? What planet is the author on? PC's had fingerprint readers in them like a decade ago. lol
Planet Clueless.
Lenovo Thinkpads have had fingerprint scanners for years, just not in the touchpad.
Besides, the implementation is key, not just the hardware availability that's important. In this case the fingerprint data is being uploaded to a third-party service provider. Apple's Touch ID keeps the data isolated on the device itself, within a high-security storage area.
The Synaptics SecurePad is a Fast Identity Online-ready authenticator supporting the use of password-free security. It will allow PC makers to implement fingerprint scanning technology without the need to duplicate hardware components, allowing for simpler integration into existing notebook designs.
Once a user scans their fingerprint when prompted for a password, SecurePad initiates a cryptographically secure challenge and response with an online service provider. The Synaptics solution does away with storing password databases in the cloud, further improving security with FIDO-compliant partners.
Yeah I'm sorry, but this just murdered this technology for me. My fingerprint will NEVER go up in the cloud. And if anyone comes up to my bench with a laptop using this crap for anything work related, that user is getting it disabled, and reported for privacy law and work policy violations.
Beat Apple to the punch? What planet is the author on? PC's had fingerprint readers in them like a decade ago. lol
Yeah, all of our corporate HP laptops have the swipe-style fingerprint readers, as did my last ThinkPad. The authors like to say overly dramatic things like calling the normal Hollywood preproduction scouting of talent approached to make the Steve Jobs movie the sign of a "troubled" movie. Headlines like "beat Apple to the punch" are like carnival barkers promising the amazing two-headed woman for the price of a click.
Nothing new here, other than the placement of the sensor. Interesting how these articles always have such an inflated sense of hyper urgency, like Tim Cook must now call the Cupertino Campus to general quarters to respond to an inbound threat to Apple's very existence. They seem to conveniently forget the endless legacy of inflated expectations leading to the reality of disappointment that results from half baked designs and substandard implementations that litters PC makers' junkyards and endless islands of misfit toys. What the heck, is there even a PC trackpad, sans super whizbang fingerprint reader insert, that doesn't totally suck compared to Apple's MacBook trackpad or Magic Trackpad? Maybe PC trackpad makers should think about making a halfway decent trackpad first and then worry out whether it makes sense to embed a fingerprint sensor in it. They're just throwing another piece of garbage on to the heap in their trash wagon design - like adding more junk will somehow make it all better.
Since most owners of PCs with trackpads are forced to buy a mouse to protect their sanity why not just put the fingerprint sensor in the mouse. Oh no! Somebody has already done this: time to generate another article warning of Apple falling further behind:
"PC mouse makers may beat Apple to the punch with new 'fingerprint ID' sensors built into a mouse. The end is near!"
So they've integrated a rubbish fingerprint reader into a rubbish knockoff second-rate trackpad, and somehow this is supposed to be better?
I've supported Lenovo products for years, and even with them using the AuthenTec fingerprint readers that were the parent technology of Apple's TouchID (Apple bought AuthenTec), it was still trash. And Synaptic trackpads are so bad that people would rather use the "cat tongue" in the middle of the keyboard and turn off the trackpad than use it.
The number one complaint we received from our PC laptop users with the Haswell-generation laptops was the garbage trackpad, and we actually had users going back to older laptops just to run away from it.
I don't think Apple is going to be very frightened by this development.
Synoptics was another missed opportunity for Apple. When they were making the scroll wheel for Apple's iPads, they could have been bought by Apple for a small amount of money. Even today, they would be a small purchase. Keeping these technologies out of competitors hands is something Apple is poor at.
And it's another time when Apple sits on their hands after making a breakthrough. They should have put this on all their mobile devices by now.
We were just teated to a well reasoned, factual editorial by Mr. Dilger on the abject failure of competing fingerprint senors against Apple’s TouchID. Now comes this “Apple is doomed” article implying the company is late to the party once again.
Here’s a personal, anecdotal experience I had yesterday at my local Macy’s department store. When my turn came to pay at the checkout position I used my iPhone 6 and Apple Pay. The transaction went through without issue (the NFC terminal plays a little jingle and the lights flash). The sales associate and the woman behind me asked what had just happened. They were amazed and It was the perfect opportunity to explain Apple Pay but when I mentioned that all I needed was my fingerprint the woman behind me replied that her employer had tried fingerprint id for access to computers and entrance to the building and that it didn’t work very well and so they ditched it. I assured her that technology was better and that TouchID had not failed me yet.
Two things. The fact that the sales associate had never seen this type of transaction flies in the face of the trolls who constantly spout the “Android has had this for years” putdown. It shows that Google Wallet was NEVER very successful at all, even if it was available first. Secondly, the fact that other manufacturers deployed subpar fingerprint technology first just to have the bragging rights gives the technology a black eye and plants the seed of doubt in the consumer’s mind.
The marketing prowess of Apple is a sight to behold. I live in the St. Louis area and there are two Apple Pay commercials on TV right now. One is by Wells Fargo and the other is by Mastercard. The commercials are all about Apple Pay and how easy it is to pay for things using it. The scenes show people paying for their purchases with Apple Pay. We NEVER, EVER saw a commercial for Google Wallet did we? They just threw it out there and nobody (except a few nerds) used it or even knew about it.
So they've integrated a rubbish fingerprint reader into a rubbish knockoff second-rate trackpad, and somehow this is supposed to be better?
I've supported Lenovo products for years, and even with them using the AuthenTec fingerprint readers that were the parent technology of Apple's TouchID (Apple bought AuthenTec), it was still trash. And Synaptic trackpads are so bad that people would rather use the "cat tongue" in the middle of the keyboard and turn off the trackpad than use it.
The number one complaint we received from our PC laptop users with the Haswell-generation laptops was the garbage trackpad, and we actually had users going back to older laptops just to run away from it.
I don't think Apple is going to be very frightened by this development.
Synaptic has made some pretty good stuff, and you can't speak to the quality of this until it's out, and reviewed. I do think that having this on the trackpad could be clutzy, depending on how it's implemented.
But still, if it works well enough, it will put Apple on the defensive. Sometimes, Apple is too deliberative.
Synoptics was another missed opportunity for Apple. When they were making the scroll wheel for Apple's iPads, they could have been bought by Apple for a small amount of money. Even today, they would be a small purchase. Keeping these technologies out of competitors hands is something Apple is poor at.
And it's another time when Apple sits on their hands after making a breakthrough. They should have put this on all their mobile devices by now.
So they’ve succeeded in becoming the biggest tech company in spite of their stupidity?
We were just teated to a well reasoned, factual editorial by Mr. Dilger on the abject failure of competing fingerprint senors against Apple’s TouchID. Now comes this “Apple is doomed” article implying the company is late to the party once again.
Here’s a personal, anecdotal experience I had yesterday at my local Macy’s department store. When my turn came to pay at the checkout position I used my iPhone 6 and Apple Pay. The transaction went through without issue (the NFC terminal plays a little jingle and the lights flash). The sales associate and the woman behind me asked what had just happened. They were amazed and It was the perfect opportunity to explain Apple Pay but when I mentioned that all I needed was my fingerprint the woman behind me replied that her employer had tried fingerprint id for access to computers and entrance to the building and that it didn’t work very well and so they ditched it. I assured her that technology was better and that TouchID had not failed me yet.
Two things. The fact that the sales associate had never seen this type of transaction flies in the face of the trolls who constantly spout the “Android has had this for years” putdown. It shows that Google Wallet was NEVER very successful at all, even if it was available first. Secondly, the fact that other manufacturers deployed subpar fingerprint technology first just to have the bragging rights gives the technology a black eye and plants the seed of doubt in the consumer’s mind.
The marketing prowess of Apple is a sight to behold. I live in the St. Louis area and there are two Apple Pay commercials on TV right now. One is by Wells Fargo and the other is by Mastercard. The commercials are all about Apple Pay and how easy it is to pay for things using it. The scenes show people paying for their purchases with Apple Pay. We NEVER, EVER saw a commercial for Google Wallet did we? They just threw it out there and nobody (except a few nerds) used it or even knew about it.
DED does exaggerate. That's not exactly unknown.
But even if he was 100% correct, that just for the past, not for the future. While it's true that Samsung rushes things out the door just to say they have it, that doesn't mean that manufacturers can't catch up, and even surpass what Apple does. I've complained for years about Apple's vacellation. They come out with a leading technology, and then do little with it for years, giving competitors time to catch up.
Previous touch sensors were poor for several reasons. But that doesn't mean they will alwsys remain poor.
I'm disappointed, as are others, that Apple hasn't already put Touch ID on their laptops, and even on their iMacs. Why not, they could, if they wanted to. I'd much rather touch my computer than need to type in a long password (because short passwords are totally useless).
On my ipad, and the phones that have it, even the Amazon app uses Touch ID. That wou,d be just great for my Mac as well. No more passwords stored in the cloud, or on web sites, and no card info either. We know Apple Pay is a success, they should hurry to extend it.
Yeah I'm sorry, but this just murdered this technology for me. My fingerprint will NEVER go up in the cloud. And if anyone comes up to my bench with a laptop using this crap for anything work related, that user is getting it disabled, and reported for privacy law and work policy violations.
It may not be the actual fingerprint that's sent for authentication -- just a crypto key associated with it. But regardless, what happens when you're on an airplane (without Internet access) and want to use your laptop? SOL?
So they’ve succeeded in becoming the biggest tech company in spite of their stupidity?
That's a nutty remark, and you should know it. Apple's growth has slowed down drastically. And you should know that as well. Any company that gets complacent about their sales, profits or technology is going to be passed by.
Apple has come out with a lot of what were leading technologies over the years, and that what has gotten them to where they are. But many people are concerned about what things cost, and the USA is not the only country. Apple's sales are now 63% foreign, where cost is more important than here, which is one major reason why their sales percentages are much smaller out of the U.S.
So they come out with Siri, using Nuance technology, and Nuance to help with the daily translations and such. They could have bought Nuance for $5 billion back then, but didn't. Now, both Google and Microsoft base their own assistant software on Nuance, and both have gotten better than Siri, which has been neglected. Apple could have cut both companies out completely, requiring them to develop this totally on their own, which would take years, and a couple of billion bucks each.
There are a lot of instances of this. Has it stopped Apple from getting where they are? Of course not, but will they stay there? That's something that no one can guarantee. And as an investor, with a fair amount of stock, it do worry about it. It's a fair thing to worry about. We've all seen major technology companies who were thought to be unassailable, being brought to their knees because competitors have passed them.
So it's easy to be complacent about this and say that Apple is great, and everything they do, whether of commission or omission is good and right, but it's not true.
I have an idea for TouchID on MBp, MBA.. They should put "iPhone" like TouchID button on power button or somewhere rather than on trackpad. So that user can touch on power button or somewhere else and have it detect the fingerprint and login and also when you need to use for any login, anything that required password, also ApplePay (without NFC) to make order online via MBA and/or MBp. That trackpad company is an idiot for put that sensor on trackpad because it's in user's way and I'm sure it's DOA or perhaps many customer isn't happy when it accident detect finger when they use trackpad as mouse.... Yes I'm sure it'll become DOA once PC maker release and hold their breath....
Please pardon my English grammar. I'm suck with English grammar and English is not my primary language, American Sign Language is.
A jailbroken iOS device isn't much difference than a hacked Mac OS device.
Sure it is. An iOS device has a secure element in the CPU, where the fingerprint information is stored and the compare is performed. So even if the device is jailbroken, you still cannot hack the authentication process. (Caveat: unless the user has previously hacked the OS to replace the authentication process itself with one of their own making. See below.*) A MacOS device currently does not run with an Apple designed processor with secure element, so Apple would have to store the fingerprint info on the disk somewhere... i.e. potentially hackable. So the MacOS device is less secure in this respect.
*A user of a jailbroken iPhone could possibly hack the OS such that it intercepts fingerprints during the fingerprint registration step, stores them wherever they want, and replaces the authentication algorithm with their own. Such a user would have created a hackable situation in order to gain some flexibility in the fingerprint authentication process (to store more fingerprints, for example, or have multiple user accounts, each tied to different sets of fingerprints).
Comments
It is the OS that needs to support it along with a strong developer kit that others can use to add it to apps.
In my opinion Apple did it the right way, they launched it supporting only Apple, tested it for a year and then released it to the public a year later.
I can buy into the (traditional, non-magic) mouse scenario, and the keyboard too.
But for laptop usage, why not place the sensor adjacent to the trackpad, rather than inside it? I mean, the trackpads on most non-Apple laptops are tiny to begin with... and the redundant mouse buttons are similarly adjacent...
Yes, you are right. Placing the sensor within the trackpad is pointless. On a laptop there's plenty of space outside the trackpad.
Beat Apple to the punch? What planet is the author on? PC's had fingerprint readers in them like a decade ago. lol
Planet Clueless.
Lenovo Thinkpads have had fingerprint scanners for years, just not in the touchpad.
Besides, the implementation is key, not just the hardware availability that's important. In this case the fingerprint data is being uploaded to a third-party service provider. Apple's Touch ID keeps the data isolated on the device itself, within a high-security storage area.
Yeah, all of our corporate HP laptops have the swipe-style fingerprint readers, as did my last ThinkPad. The authors like to say overly dramatic things like calling the normal Hollywood preproduction scouting of talent approached to make the Steve Jobs movie the sign of a "troubled" movie. Headlines like "beat Apple to the punch" are like carnival barkers promising the amazing two-headed woman for the price of a click.
Nothing new here, other than the placement of the sensor. Interesting how these articles always have such an inflated sense of hyper urgency, like Tim Cook must now call the Cupertino Campus to general quarters to respond to an inbound threat to Apple's very existence. They seem to conveniently forget the endless legacy of inflated expectations leading to the reality of disappointment that results from half baked designs and substandard implementations that litters PC makers' junkyards and endless islands of misfit toys. What the heck, is there even a PC trackpad, sans super whizbang fingerprint reader insert, that doesn't totally suck compared to Apple's MacBook trackpad or Magic Trackpad? Maybe PC trackpad makers should think about making a halfway decent trackpad first and then worry out whether it makes sense to embed a fingerprint sensor in it. They're just throwing another piece of garbage on to the heap in their trash wagon design - like adding more junk will somehow make it all better.
Since most owners of PCs with trackpads are forced to buy a mouse to protect their sanity why not just put the fingerprint sensor in the mouse. Oh no! Somebody has already done this: time to generate another article warning of Apple falling further behind:
"PC mouse makers may beat Apple to the punch with new 'fingerprint ID' sensors built into a mouse. The end is near!"
So they've integrated a rubbish fingerprint reader into a rubbish knockoff second-rate trackpad, and somehow this is supposed to be better?
I've supported Lenovo products for years, and even with them using the AuthenTec fingerprint readers that were the parent technology of Apple's TouchID (Apple bought AuthenTec), it was still trash. And Synaptic trackpads are so bad that people would rather use the "cat tongue" in the middle of the keyboard and turn off the trackpad than use it.
The number one complaint we received from our PC laptop users with the Haswell-generation laptops was the garbage trackpad, and we actually had users going back to older laptops just to run away from it.
I don't think Apple is going to be very frightened by this development.
And it's another time when Apple sits on their hands after making a breakthrough. They should have put this on all their mobile devices by now.
We were just teated to a well reasoned, factual editorial by Mr. Dilger on the abject failure of competing fingerprint senors against Apple’s TouchID. Now comes this “Apple is doomed” article implying the company is late to the party once again.
Here’s a personal, anecdotal experience I had yesterday at my local Macy’s department store. When my turn came to pay at the checkout position I used my iPhone 6 and Apple Pay. The transaction went through without issue (the NFC terminal plays a little jingle and the lights flash). The sales associate and the woman behind me asked what had just happened. They were amazed and It was the perfect opportunity to explain Apple Pay but when I mentioned that all I needed was my fingerprint the woman behind me replied that her employer had tried fingerprint id for access to computers and entrance to the building and that it didn’t work very well and so they ditched it. I assured her that technology was better and that TouchID had not failed me yet.
Two things. The fact that the sales associate had never seen this type of transaction flies in the face of the trolls who constantly spout the “Android has had this for years” putdown. It shows that Google Wallet was NEVER very successful at all, even if it was available first. Secondly, the fact that other manufacturers deployed subpar fingerprint technology first just to have the bragging rights gives the technology a black eye and plants the seed of doubt in the consumer’s mind.
The marketing prowess of Apple is a sight to behold. I live in the St. Louis area and there are two Apple Pay commercials on TV right now. One is by Wells Fargo and the other is by Mastercard. The commercials are all about Apple Pay and how easy it is to pay for things using it. The scenes show people paying for their purchases with Apple Pay. We NEVER, EVER saw a commercial for Google Wallet did we? They just threw it out there and nobody (except a few nerds) used it or even knew about it.
Synaptic has made some pretty good stuff, and you can't speak to the quality of this until it's out, and reviewed. I do think that having this on the trackpad could be clutzy, depending on how it's implemented.
But still, if it works well enough, it will put Apple on the defensive. Sometimes, Apple is too deliberative.
So the FBI is pretending they can't access your iPhone data?
Synoptics was another missed opportunity for Apple. When they were making the scroll wheel for Apple's iPads, they could have been bought by Apple for a small amount of money. Even today, they would be a small purchase. Keeping these technologies out of competitors hands is something Apple is poor at.
And it's another time when Apple sits on their hands after making a breakthrough. They should have put this on all their mobile devices by now.
So they’ve succeeded in becoming the biggest tech company in spite of their stupidity?
DED does exaggerate. That's not exactly unknown.
But even if he was 100% correct, that just for the past, not for the future. While it's true that Samsung rushes things out the door just to say they have it, that doesn't mean that manufacturers can't catch up, and even surpass what Apple does. I've complained for years about Apple's vacellation. They come out with a leading technology, and then do little with it for years, giving competitors time to catch up.
Previous touch sensors were poor for several reasons. But that doesn't mean they will alwsys remain poor.
I'm disappointed, as are others, that Apple hasn't already put Touch ID on their laptops, and even on their iMacs. Why not, they could, if they wanted to. I'd much rather touch my computer than need to type in a long password (because short passwords are totally useless).
On my ipad, and the phones that have it, even the Amazon app uses Touch ID. That wou,d be just great for my Mac as well. No more passwords stored in the cloud, or on web sites, and no card info either. We know Apple Pay is a success, they should hurry to extend it.
Yeah I'm sorry, but this just murdered this technology for me. My fingerprint will NEVER go up in the cloud. And if anyone comes up to my bench with a laptop using this crap for anything work related, that user is getting it disabled, and reported for privacy law and work policy violations.
It may not be the actual fingerprint that's sent for authentication -- just a crypto key associated with it. But regardless, what happens when you're on an airplane (without Internet access) and want to use your laptop? SOL?
That's a nutty remark, and you should know it. Apple's growth has slowed down drastically. And you should know that as well. Any company that gets complacent about their sales, profits or technology is going to be passed by.
Apple has come out with a lot of what were leading technologies over the years, and that what has gotten them to where they are. But many people are concerned about what things cost, and the USA is not the only country. Apple's sales are now 63% foreign, where cost is more important than here, which is one major reason why their sales percentages are much smaller out of the U.S.
So they come out with Siri, using Nuance technology, and Nuance to help with the daily translations and such. They could have bought Nuance for $5 billion back then, but didn't. Now, both Google and Microsoft base their own assistant software on Nuance, and both have gotten better than Siri, which has been neglected. Apple could have cut both companies out completely, requiring them to develop this totally on their own, which would take years, and a couple of billion bucks each.
There are a lot of instances of this. Has it stopped Apple from getting where they are? Of course not, but will they stay there? That's something that no one can guarantee. And as an investor, with a fair amount of stock, it do worry about it. It's a fair thing to worry about. We've all seen major technology companies who were thought to be unassailable, being brought to their knees because competitors have passed them.
So it's easy to be complacent about this and say that Apple is great, and everything they do, whether of commission or omission is good and right, but it's not true.
lipstick on a pig—it's still a pig.
Please pardon my English grammar. I'm suck with English grammar and English is not my primary language, American Sign Language is.
A jailbroken iOS device isn't much difference than a hacked Mac OS device.
Sure it is. An iOS device has a secure element in the CPU, where the fingerprint information is stored and the compare is performed. So even if the device is jailbroken, you still cannot hack the authentication process. (Caveat: unless the user has previously hacked the OS to replace the authentication process itself with one of their own making. See below.*) A MacOS device currently does not run with an Apple designed processor with secure element, so Apple would have to store the fingerprint info on the disk somewhere... i.e. potentially hackable. So the MacOS device is less secure in this respect.
*A user of a jailbroken iPhone could possibly hack the OS such that it intercepts fingerprints during the fingerprint registration step, stores them wherever they want, and replaces the authentication algorithm with their own. Such a user would have created a hackable situation in order to gain some flexibility in the fingerprint authentication process (to store more fingerprints, for example, or have multiple user accounts, each tied to different sets of fingerprints).
Why are so many people dismissing this touch sensor?
Because the sensor is in the touchpad?
Because a laptop has a touch sensor at all?
Because Apple laptops currently don't have touch sensors?