I agree ... You have no idea how many times I leave my wallet in my car with phone in hand, and hold up the check stand while I run out and get it ... I tell them everytime ?Pay would have prevented that.
Phone more likely in hand than a wallet that often requires the person to get it out of their pocket, open it up, and select a card to swipe, then put away afterward.
If you're talking about security people may choose to leave a Debit/CC at home and only bring cash. ?Pay would be faster, except perhaps in situations of a single bill of exact change.
On top of that, the increase in speed and security help encourage more transactions and faster lines.
I think for credit card users security issue is zero. Who cares if your cc number is stolen? Your bank gives a zero liability policy. Let's say it is stolen. You don't pay a penny for the fraudulent charges and the issuer cancels your card and overnights a new one to you.
From the consumer perspective the security issue is just nonexistent. For the merchants and/or banks it is real because they can get beat out of a product or service.
In concession stand or restaurant environment they don't have you sign the receipt at most places now (chipotle, mcdonald's, stadiums) because the loss is minor if they get beat by somebody there. Food cost is low and the fraud rate isn't worth slowing down transactions.
I still don't understand why the media keeps talking about security because if Pay is going to be consumer driven it just isn't a concern for the consumer. I've had two credit cards poached in 20 years and didn't pay a dime and got a new card. It was painless.
I agree that there could be small speed increases IF somebody has the phone more readily available then their wallet. In my experience people usually have their cards out and ready by the time they are at the cashier. Of course there are exceptions and the same would be the case for a smartphone. Whenever I go to some fast casual restaurants, fast food, home improvement and grocery stores I watch people and they usually have that card ready the moment the cashier has the terminal ready for the swipe or tap. Your experiences may differ but watch next time you go.
I think for credit card users security issue is zero. Who cares if your cc number is stolen? Your bank gives a zero liability policy. Let's say it is stolen. You don't pay a penny for the fraudulent charges and the issuer cancels your card and overnights a new one to you.
The consumer getting 100% back from fraudulent charges in no way means a security issue doesn't exist. I can't even believe you would write that.
The consumer getting 100% back from fraudulent charges in no way means a security issue doesn't exist. I can't even believe you would write that.
Please explain then. If your cc is stolen what is your downside? Zero. If I'm missing something please elaborate. Payment is consumer driven so you need either a pain point (security isn't one for the consumer side) or a pleasure point of some kind. Those are the motivators of behaviour which would drive adoption or inhibit adoption.
Please explain then. If your cc is stolen what is your downside? Zero. If I'm missing something please elaborate. Payment is consumer driven so you need either a pain point (security isn't one for the consumer side) or a pleasure point of some kind. Those are the motivators of behaviour which would drive adoption or inhibit adoption.
1) I need to contact each issuer to tell them my cards have been stolen.
2) I need to have every issue mail out new cards which will take at least several days to get.
3) I need to go to each account and submit a fraudulent charge report for each purchase that was made.
How the **** are any of those an upside?
4) The added cost to the consumer for the built-in customer protection for using plastic coupled with the high and increasing rate of fraudulent charges.
1) I need to contact each issuer to tell them my cards have been stolen.
2) I need to have every issue mail out new cards which will take at least several days to get.
3) I need to go to each account and submit a fraudulent charge report for each purchase that was made.
How the **** are any of those an upside?
4) The cost of the built-in customer protection for using plastic adds to the cost of using plastic.
First, rarely are ALL your cards stolen at once. Maybe if you lose your whole wallet. More often somebody is copying your card number of an online store maybe gets hacked. So in MOST cases you only contact one issuer and they mail the card out. Many instances they contact you before you even know it was stolen and take care of everything.
The consumer protection for plastic is not seen by the consumer. That cost is borne by the issuing banks and/or merchants. If you think the fees retailers pay are higher because of the cost of using plastic think again. The Durbin Act made visa/mc cut interchange fees on debit cards in half. Guess what happened? Retailers never lowered prices. They just pocketed the difference as extra profit.
Last, how often does a credit card get stolen. The majority of people it never happens to. The few that it does it is once or twice in their life. Rarely does it happen more than twice to an individual so nobody is out that much in terms of time and certainly not financially in any way.
I think for credit card users security issue is zero. Who cares if your cc number is stolen? Your bank gives a zero liability policy. Let's say it is stolen. You don't pay a penny for the fraudulent charges and the issuer cancels your card and overnights a new one to you.
Not all of them are so forgiving. Yes, they have a zero liability policy, but if the stolen card was used on-line, it can take weeks before it is all resolved. And not all banks overnight a new card. Wells Fargo took 2 weeks to get me a new one when mine was used for fraudulent purchases, even though I notified them that day.
From the consumer perspective the security issue is just nonexistent. For the merchants and/or banks it is real because they can get beat out of a product or service.
In concession stand or restaurant environment they don't have you sign the receipt at most places now (chipotle, mcdonald's, stadiums) because the loss is minor if they get beat by somebody there. Food cost is low and the fraud rate isn't worth slowing down transactions.
I still don't understand why the media keeps talking about security because if Pay is going to be consumer driven it just isn't a concern for the consumer. I've had two credit cards poached in 20 years and didn't pay a dime and got a new card. It was painless.
So you're OK with retailers having your CC number in their database to get hacked? You're OK with retailers sending you spam because they have a detailed record of everything that you have bought? Well, good for you. Some of us are NOT OK with that, and prefer the anonymity and security that Apple Pay provides.
I agree that there could be small speed increases IF somebody has the phone more readily available then their wallet. In my experience people usually have their cards out and ready by the time they are at the cashier. Of course there are exceptions and the same would be the case for a smartphone. Whenever I go to some fast casual restaurants, fast food, home improvement and grocery stores I watch people and they usually have that card ready the moment the cashier has the terminal ready for the swipe or tap. Your experiences may differ but watch next time you go.
I don't know where you live or shop, but my experience is the exact opposite. Hardly anyone has their card ready to pay at a fast food or concession stand. But most are talking on their phone, so that would be ready!
Please explain then. If your cc is stolen what is your downside? Zero. If I'm missing something please elaborate. Payment is consumer driven so you need either a pain point (security isn't one for the consumer side) or a pleasure point of some kind. Those are the motivators of behaviour which would drive adoption or inhibit adoption.
So you don't consider it a big hassle? We are very careful with our cards, and only shop on-line at reputable sites, but we have had our card number stolen 5 times over the last 3 years alone, all from stopping at different places while on a vacation or trip to visit family. Maybe we are the exception, but it is a huge hassle when you are on vacation, and all of a sudden you can't use a credit card because the bank has cancelled it due to fraud.
So you don't consider it a big hassle? We are very careful with our cards, and only shop on-line at reputable sites, but we have had our card number stolen 5 times over the last 3 years alone, all from stopping at different places while on a vacation or trip to visit family. Maybe we are the exception, but it is a huge hassle when you are on vacation, and all of a sudden you can't use a credit card because the bank has cancelled it.
Do what I do then. Bring a few credit cards on vacation. I always bring at least 3 to 5 anywhere I go whether on vacation or not. You have to bring a wallet anyway.
You are certainly a few standard deviations out on the exception list there with a 5 time stolen card.
Also the same hassle would happen if you lost your iphone. Your done. Will somebody get you a new iPhone so you can pay for things? What if your out siteseeing and your battery dies? Plastic to the rescue?
First my Bank which is USAA uses Tokens and it is safer. One of the first to use Tokes was I think TD where you got a little fob that went on your key chain. Tokens are a two part code.
Now as far as Liability you will see it soon very soon it will impact your everyday life. CC's and Banks are shifting resposibility to the retailer.
I think for credit card users security issue is zero. Who cares if your cc number is stolen? Your bank gives a zero liability policy. Let's say it is stolen. You don't pay a penny for the fraudulent charges and the issuer cancels your card and overnights a new one to you.
From the consumer perspective the security issue is just nonexistent. For the merchants and/or banks it is real because they can get beat out of a product or service.
In concession stand or restaurant environment they don't have you sign the receipt at most places now (chipotle, mcdonald's, stadiums) because the loss is minor if they get beat by somebody there. Food cost is low and the fraud rate isn't worth slowing down transactions.
I still don't understand why the media keeps talking about security because if Pay is going to be consumer driven it just isn't a concern for the consumer. I've had two credit cards poached in 20 years and didn't pay a dime and got a new card. It was painless.
I agree that there could be small speed increases IF somebody has the phone more readily available then their wallet. In my experience people usually have their cards out and ready by the time they are at the cashier. Of course there are exceptions and the same would be the case for a smartphone. Whenever I go to some fast casual restaurants, fast food, home improvement and grocery stores I watch people and they usually have that card ready the moment the cashier has the terminal ready for the swipe or tap. Your experiences may differ but watch next time you go.
Huh! So, having to cancel the card, ask for them to reversed, if you notice the unwanted charges (or get news of a breach) and get a new one is a trivial issue to you?
What if it happens when it would be very inconvenient to lose your card, say a road trip accross the US, a one month trip abroad, no issue at all?
What about debit cards? You can also use it with Apple pay. Much more hastle to reverse, are you sure you want to continue this line of reasoning?
You make no sense at all. Please revise your statement so it does!!
Do what I do then. Bring a few credit cards on vacation. I always bring at least 3 to 5 anywhere I go whether on vacation or not. You have to bring a wallet anyway.
You are certainly a few standard deviations out on the exception list there with a 5 time stolen card.
Also the same hassle would happen if you lost your iphone. Your done. Will somebody get you a new iPhone so you can pay for things? What if your out siteseeing and your battery dies? Plastic to the rescue?
We are down to only one CC due to our problems in the past. We pay cash at most places along our trip route now, just to be safer. And losing a phone is certainly a different animal than someone stealing your CC information.
The "loss" might be $0 to the consumer... and yes, they send a new card. But that is only one aspect of it. There is the re-registering the new CC at all the different places where auto-debit is set up for monthly payments, fees, etc. THAT is pain and inconvenience for the consumer that is created with CC fraud. It's not just about the money.
And my experience has been using ApplePay actually has been FASTER than swiping a CC and then signing. Just the other day I went to Jewel Ocso (grocery store chain in the midwest) and I saw the VeriFone terminal. I asked the cashier if they accept mobile payments. By the time she answered me (I was holding my iP6 to the terminal) the Apple Pay transaction was completed.
Huh! So, having to cancel the card, ask for them to reversed, if you notice the unwanted charges (or get news of a breach) and get a new one is a trivial issue to you?
What if it happens when it would be very inconvenient to lose your card, say a road trip accross the US, a one month trip abroad, no issue at all?
What about debit cards? You can also use it with Apple pay. Much more hastle to reverse, are you sure you want to continue this line of reasoning?
You make no sense at all. Please revise your statement so it does!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod
Do what I do then. Bring a few credit cards on vacation. I always bring at least 3 to 5 anywhere I go whether on vacation or not. You have to bring a wallet anyway.
You are certainly a few standard deviations out on the exception list there with a 5 time stolen card.
Also the same hassle would happen if you lost your iphone. Your done. Will somebody get you a new iPhone so you can pay for things? What if your out siteseeing and your battery dies? Plastic to the rescue?
That doesn't change anything about the really really dumb thing you just said about having your number and name pilfered being trivial. Your backtracking on something rather foolish.
BTW, people are almost certainly going to have a phone with them, and yes, you can bring a card for emergencies or places that don't use Apple pay. That will be the case for quite some time in the US it seems. But, in Canada, most places have terminals with NFC.
That doesn't change anything about the really really dumb thing you just said about having your number and name pilfered being trivial. Your backtracking on something rather foolish.
BTW, people are almost certainly going to have a phone with them, and yes, you can bring a card for emergencies or places that don't use Apple pay. That will be the case for quite some time in the US it seems. But, in Canada, most places have terminals with NFC.
Adding to that, if we are talking specifically about being on vacation, one can leave their cards in the hotel safe or keep them on their person (wallet or fanny pack*) when traveling so they can pay with their iPhone. That's inherently more secure because you're not giving over your actual card number or name over to the retail clerk, not can ?Pay be used by anyone else without considerable hassle. If your iPhone was going to get stolen, which sucks, it certainly not any more likely to be stolen because you have ?Pay enabled and possibly less likely since it will be locked with Touch ID, instead of the pre-Touch ID statistic of 50% of users not locking their iPhones.
* I've never used a fanny pack, but I see plenty of tourists using them. It seems like a double bullseye to me. I do carry backup cash, card and ID with me when I'm out of the country but it's something I designed and made for myself, that is more-or-less in case I'm robbed with a threat of force.
Huh! So, having to cancel the card, ask for them to reversed, if you notice the unwanted charges (or get news of a breach) and get a new one is a trivial issue to you?
What if it happens when it would be very inconvenient to lose your card, say a road trip accross the US, a one month trip abroad, no issue at all?
What about debit cards? You can also use it with Apple pay. Much more hastle to reverse, are you sure you want to continue this line of reasoning?
You make no sense at all. Please revise your statement so it does!!
Yup. It was very trivial. The cc company didn't argue with any of the charges. They cancelled the card. Sent me a new one. Easy as could be. Call took < 5 minutes. I can deal with that once every 10 years or even once every year if it came down to it. A couple minutes to take care of this is not material and certainly not an argument to use Apple Pay over plastic.
I understand you are a huge apple fan. I may be more of one than you. I personally use two iphones (6 and a Plus). We have 3 ipad air 2's in my house. 2 more iphones 6's for family members. Couple iMac's. Despite that I am not delusional thinking that apple pay FOR THE CONSUMER is any great leap or even incrementally superior than swiping or tapping to pay a plastic credit card. I think you will be surprised with the very very slow adoption relative to cash and plastic use and plastic uptake in the wild. I've used Apple Pay several times now. It isn't earth shattering. For me not different or easier than using plastic. Maybe your mileage varies.
A lot of stores are accepting, but my Bank (MSU fed credit union), says they will start accepting Apple Pay in Mid 2015! Geesh! And yet, they have the cash to build a new multi million dollar expansion on the main branch and pay us a pittance for interest on our deposits. Their financial goals don't include keeping up with technology, and If they were keeping up with technology I might be able to use apple Pay by now! :-)
I think for credit card users security issue is zero. Who cares if your cc number is stolen? Your bank gives a zero liability policy. Let's say it is stolen. You don't pay a penny for the fraudulent charges and the issuer cancels your card and overnights a new one to you.
From the consumer perspective the security issue is just nonexistent. For the merchants and/or banks it is real because they can get beat out of a product or service.
In concession stand or restaurant environment they don't have you sign the receipt at most places now (chipotle, mcdonald's, stadiums) because the loss is minor if they get beat by somebody there. Food cost is low and the fraud rate isn't worth slowing down transactions.
I still don't understand why the media keeps talking about security because if Pay is going to be consumer driven it just isn't a concern for the consumer. I've had two credit cards poached in 20 years and didn't pay a dime and got a new card. It was painless.
I agree that there could be small speed increases IF somebody has the phone more readily available then their wallet. In my experience people usually have their cards out and ready by the time they are at the cashier. Of course there are exceptions and the same would be the case for a smartphone. Whenever I go to some fast casual restaurants, fast food, home improvement and grocery stores I watch people and they usually have that card ready the moment the cashier has the terminal ready for the swipe or tap. Your experiences may differ but watch next time you go.
I think for credit card users security issue is zero. Who cares if your cc number is stolen? Your bank gives a zero liability policy. Let's say it is stolen. You don't pay a penny for the fraudulent charges and the issuer cancels your card and overnights a new one to you.
From the consumer perspective the security issue is just nonexistent. For the merchants and/or banks it is real because they can get beat out of a product or service.
In concession stand or restaurant environment they don't have you sign the receipt at most places now (chipotle, mcdonald's, stadiums) because the loss is minor if they get beat by somebody there. Food cost is low and the fraud rate isn't worth slowing down transactions.
I still don't understand why the media keeps talking about security because if Pay is going to be consumer driven it just isn't a concern for the consumer. I've had two credit cards poached in 20 years and didn't pay a dime and got a new card. It was painless.
I agree that there could be small speed increases IF somebody has the phone more readily available then their wallet. In my experience people usually have their cards out and ready by the time they are at the cashier. Of course there are exceptions and the same would be the case for a smartphone. Whenever I go to some fast casual restaurants, fast food, home improvement and grocery stores I watch people and they usually have that card ready the moment the cashier has the terminal ready for the swipe or tap. Your experiences may differ but watch next time you go.
A couple of things puzzle me yet though. So far I have only seen "We now accept ApplePay" signs at Panera Bread. I would think that would/could be a decent draw. I also don't understand the possible workflow at a higher end sit down restaurant. Wireless POS of some kind? That seems cumbersome to me, since the customer has to TouchID authenticate the transaction.
...
The wireless POS is precisely what they use with chip and PIN in Europe. The waitperson brings a wireless terminal to the table and the patron completes the transaction - never have to even hand over your card. I imagine it would work the same way with the NFC in ApplePay, only easier. It works great, IMHO.
[quote name="mvigod" url="/t/183926/apple-says-dozens-of-banks-and-stores-signed-up-for-apple-pay-in-recent-weeks#post_2652145"]Yup. It was very trivial. The cc company didn't argue with any of the charges. They cancelled the card. Sent me a new one. Easy as could be. [/QUOTE]
Easier than not having to call them, check for fraudulent charges, remove fraudulent charges, cancel your card, and issue a new card? :no:
[QUOTE]Call took < 5 minutes.[/QUOTE]
It took less 5 minutes to call them and get a new card delivered to you in the mail. That really is convenient¡ :rolleyes:
[QUOTE]I can deal with that once every 10 years or even once every year if it came down to it. A couple minutes to take care of this is not material and certainly not an argument to use Apple Pay over plastic.[/QUOTE]
How about never happening a represential card number and token removes 99.999% of the problem?
[QUOTE]I understand you are a huge apple fan. I may be more of one than you. I personally use two iphones (6 and a Plus). We have 3 ipad air 2's in my house. 2 more iphones 6's for family members. Couple iMac's. [/QUOTE]
Next time lead with how a big a fan you are and how much Apple crap you own so we know you're not rational commenter.
Comments
Multiple ways to speed up a payment.
Phone more likely in hand than a wallet that often requires the person to get it out of their pocket, open it up, and select a card to swipe, then put away afterward.
If you're talking about security people may choose to leave a Debit/CC at home and only bring cash. ?Pay would be faster, except perhaps in situations of a single bill of exact change.
On top of that, the increase in speed and security help encourage more transactions and faster lines.
I think for credit card users security issue is zero. Who cares if your cc number is stolen? Your bank gives a zero liability policy. Let's say it is stolen. You don't pay a penny for the fraudulent charges and the issuer cancels your card and overnights a new one to you.
From the consumer perspective the security issue is just nonexistent. For the merchants and/or banks it is real because they can get beat out of a product or service.
In concession stand or restaurant environment they don't have you sign the receipt at most places now (chipotle, mcdonald's, stadiums) because the loss is minor if they get beat by somebody there. Food cost is low and the fraud rate isn't worth slowing down transactions.
I still don't understand why the media keeps talking about security because if Pay is going to be consumer driven it just isn't a concern for the consumer. I've had two credit cards poached in 20 years and didn't pay a dime and got a new card. It was painless.
I agree that there could be small speed increases IF somebody has the phone more readily available then their wallet. In my experience people usually have their cards out and ready by the time they are at the cashier. Of course there are exceptions and the same would be the case for a smartphone. Whenever I go to some fast casual restaurants, fast food, home improvement and grocery stores I watch people and they usually have that card ready the moment the cashier has the terminal ready for the swipe or tap. Your experiences may differ but watch next time you go.
The consumer getting 100% back from fraudulent charges in no way means a security issue doesn't exist. I can't even believe you would write that.
The consumer getting 100% back from fraudulent charges in no way means a security issue doesn't exist. I can't even believe you would write that.
Please explain then. If your cc is stolen what is your downside? Zero. If I'm missing something please elaborate. Payment is consumer driven so you need either a pain point (security isn't one for the consumer side) or a pleasure point of some kind. Those are the motivators of behaviour which would drive adoption or inhibit adoption.
1) I need to contact each issuer to tell them my cards have been stolen.
2) I need to have every issue mail out new cards which will take at least several days to get.
3) I need to go to each account and submit a fraudulent charge report for each purchase that was made.
How the **** are any of those an upside?
4) The added cost to the consumer for the built-in customer protection for using plastic coupled with the high and increasing rate of fraudulent charges.
1) I need to contact each issuer to tell them my cards have been stolen.
2) I need to have every issue mail out new cards which will take at least several days to get.
3) I need to go to each account and submit a fraudulent charge report for each purchase that was made.
How the **** are any of those an upside?
4) The cost of the built-in customer protection for using plastic adds to the cost of using plastic.
First, rarely are ALL your cards stolen at once. Maybe if you lose your whole wallet. More often somebody is copying your card number of an online store maybe gets hacked. So in MOST cases you only contact one issuer and they mail the card out. Many instances they contact you before you even know it was stolen and take care of everything.
The consumer protection for plastic is not seen by the consumer. That cost is borne by the issuing banks and/or merchants. If you think the fees retailers pay are higher because of the cost of using plastic think again. The Durbin Act made visa/mc cut interchange fees on debit cards in half. Guess what happened? Retailers never lowered prices. They just pocketed the difference as extra profit.
Last, how often does a credit card get stolen. The majority of people it never happens to. The few that it does it is once or twice in their life. Rarely does it happen more than twice to an individual so nobody is out that much in terms of time and certainly not financially in any way.
I think for credit card users security issue is zero. Who cares if your cc number is stolen? Your bank gives a zero liability policy. Let's say it is stolen. You don't pay a penny for the fraudulent charges and the issuer cancels your card and overnights a new one to you.
Not all of them are so forgiving. Yes, they have a zero liability policy, but if the stolen card was used on-line, it can take weeks before it is all resolved. And not all banks overnight a new card. Wells Fargo took 2 weeks to get me a new one when mine was used for fraudulent purchases, even though I notified them that day.
From the consumer perspective the security issue is just nonexistent. For the merchants and/or banks it is real because they can get beat out of a product or service.
In concession stand or restaurant environment they don't have you sign the receipt at most places now (chipotle, mcdonald's, stadiums) because the loss is minor if they get beat by somebody there. Food cost is low and the fraud rate isn't worth slowing down transactions.
I still don't understand why the media keeps talking about security because if Pay is going to be consumer driven it just isn't a concern for the consumer. I've had two credit cards poached in 20 years and didn't pay a dime and got a new card. It was painless.
So you're OK with retailers having your CC number in their database to get hacked? You're OK with retailers sending you spam because they have a detailed record of everything that you have bought? Well, good for you. Some of us are NOT OK with that, and prefer the anonymity and security that Apple Pay provides.
I agree that there could be small speed increases IF somebody has the phone more readily available then their wallet. In my experience people usually have their cards out and ready by the time they are at the cashier. Of course there are exceptions and the same would be the case for a smartphone. Whenever I go to some fast casual restaurants, fast food, home improvement and grocery stores I watch people and they usually have that card ready the moment the cashier has the terminal ready for the swipe or tap. Your experiences may differ but watch next time you go.
I don't know where you live or shop, but my experience is the exact opposite. Hardly anyone has their card ready to pay at a fast food or concession stand. But most are talking on their phone, so that would be ready!
Please explain then. If your cc is stolen what is your downside? Zero. If I'm missing something please elaborate. Payment is consumer driven so you need either a pain point (security isn't one for the consumer side) or a pleasure point of some kind. Those are the motivators of behaviour which would drive adoption or inhibit adoption.
So you don't consider it a big hassle? We are very careful with our cards, and only shop on-line at reputable sites, but we have had our card number stolen 5 times over the last 3 years alone, all from stopping at different places while on a vacation or trip to visit family. Maybe we are the exception, but it is a huge hassle when you are on vacation, and all of a sudden you can't use a credit card because the bank has cancelled it due to fraud.
So you don't consider it a big hassle? We are very careful with our cards, and only shop on-line at reputable sites, but we have had our card number stolen 5 times over the last 3 years alone, all from stopping at different places while on a vacation or trip to visit family. Maybe we are the exception, but it is a huge hassle when you are on vacation, and all of a sudden you can't use a credit card because the bank has cancelled it.
Do what I do then. Bring a few credit cards on vacation. I always bring at least 3 to 5 anywhere I go whether on vacation or not. You have to bring a wallet anyway.
You are certainly a few standard deviations out on the exception list there with a 5 time stolen card.
Also the same hassle would happen if you lost your iphone. Your done. Will somebody get you a new iPhone so you can pay for things? What if your out siteseeing and your battery dies? Plastic to the rescue?
Now as far as Liability you will see it soon very soon it will impact your everyday life. CC's and Banks are shifting resposibility to the retailer.
http://www.mrketplace.com/57196/preparing-for-the-shift-in-credit-card-liability-in-2015/
I think for credit card users security issue is zero. Who cares if your cc number is stolen? Your bank gives a zero liability policy. Let's say it is stolen. You don't pay a penny for the fraudulent charges and the issuer cancels your card and overnights a new one to you.
From the consumer perspective the security issue is just nonexistent. For the merchants and/or banks it is real because they can get beat out of a product or service.
In concession stand or restaurant environment they don't have you sign the receipt at most places now (chipotle, mcdonald's, stadiums) because the loss is minor if they get beat by somebody there. Food cost is low and the fraud rate isn't worth slowing down transactions.
I still don't understand why the media keeps talking about security because if Pay is going to be consumer driven it just isn't a concern for the consumer. I've had two credit cards poached in 20 years and didn't pay a dime and got a new card. It was painless.
I agree that there could be small speed increases IF somebody has the phone more readily available then their wallet. In my experience people usually have their cards out and ready by the time they are at the cashier. Of course there are exceptions and the same would be the case for a smartphone. Whenever I go to some fast casual restaurants, fast food, home improvement and grocery stores I watch people and they usually have that card ready the moment the cashier has the terminal ready for the swipe or tap. Your experiences may differ but watch next time you go.
Huh! So, having to cancel the card, ask for them to reversed, if you notice the unwanted charges (or get news of a breach) and get a new one is a trivial issue to you?
What if it happens when it would be very inconvenient to lose your card, say a road trip accross the US, a one month trip abroad, no issue at all?
What about debit cards? You can also use it with Apple pay. Much more hastle to reverse, are you sure you want to continue this line of reasoning?
You make no sense at all. Please revise your statement so it does!!
Do what I do then. Bring a few credit cards on vacation. I always bring at least 3 to 5 anywhere I go whether on vacation or not. You have to bring a wallet anyway.
You are certainly a few standard deviations out on the exception list there with a 5 time stolen card.
Also the same hassle would happen if you lost your iphone. Your done. Will somebody get you a new iPhone so you can pay for things? What if your out siteseeing and your battery dies? Plastic to the rescue?
We are down to only one CC due to our problems in the past. We pay cash at most places along our trip route now, just to be safer. And losing a phone is certainly a different animal than someone stealing your CC information.
The "loss" might be $0 to the consumer... and yes, they send a new card. But that is only one aspect of it. There is the re-registering the new CC at all the different places where auto-debit is set up for monthly payments, fees, etc. THAT is pain and inconvenience for the consumer that is created with CC fraud. It's not just about the money.
And my experience has been using ApplePay actually has been FASTER than swiping a CC and then signing. Just the other day I went to Jewel Ocso (grocery store chain in the midwest) and I saw the VeriFone terminal. I asked the cashier if they accept mobile payments. By the time she answered me (I was holding my iP6 to the terminal) the Apple Pay transaction was completed.
Huh! So, having to cancel the card, ask for them to reversed, if you notice the unwanted charges (or get news of a breach) and get a new one is a trivial issue to you?
What if it happens when it would be very inconvenient to lose your card, say a road trip accross the US, a one month trip abroad, no issue at all?
What about debit cards? You can also use it with Apple pay. Much more hastle to reverse, are you sure you want to continue this line of reasoning?
You make no sense at all. Please revise your statement so it does!!
Do what I do then. Bring a few credit cards on vacation. I always bring at least 3 to 5 anywhere I go whether on vacation or not. You have to bring a wallet anyway.
You are certainly a few standard deviations out on the exception list there with a 5 time stolen card.
Also the same hassle would happen if you lost your iphone. Your done. Will somebody get you a new iPhone so you can pay for things? What if your out siteseeing and your battery dies? Plastic to the rescue?
That doesn't change anything about the really really dumb thing you just said about having your number and name pilfered being trivial. Your backtracking on something rather foolish.
BTW, people are almost certainly going to have a phone with them, and yes, you can bring a card for emergencies or places that don't use Apple pay. That will be the case for quite some time in the US it seems. But, in Canada, most places have terminals with NFC.
Adding to that, if we are talking specifically about being on vacation, one can leave their cards in the hotel safe or keep them on their person (wallet or fanny pack*) when traveling so they can pay with their iPhone. That's inherently more secure because you're not giving over your actual card number or name over to the retail clerk, not can ?Pay be used by anyone else without considerable hassle. If your iPhone was going to get stolen, which sucks, it certainly not any more likely to be stolen because you have ?Pay enabled and possibly less likely since it will be locked with Touch ID, instead of the pre-Touch ID statistic of 50% of users not locking their iPhones.
* I've never used a fanny pack, but I see plenty of tourists using them. It seems like a double bullseye to me. I do carry backup cash, card and ID with me when I'm out of the country but it's something I designed and made for myself, that is more-or-less in case I'm robbed with a threat of force.
Huh! So, having to cancel the card, ask for them to reversed, if you notice the unwanted charges (or get news of a breach) and get a new one is a trivial issue to you?
What if it happens when it would be very inconvenient to lose your card, say a road trip accross the US, a one month trip abroad, no issue at all?
What about debit cards? You can also use it with Apple pay. Much more hastle to reverse, are you sure you want to continue this line of reasoning?
You make no sense at all. Please revise your statement so it does!!
Yup. It was very trivial. The cc company didn't argue with any of the charges. They cancelled the card. Sent me a new one. Easy as could be. Call took < 5 minutes. I can deal with that once every 10 years or even once every year if it came down to it. A couple minutes to take care of this is not material and certainly not an argument to use Apple Pay over plastic.
I understand you are a huge apple fan. I may be more of one than you. I personally use two iphones (6 and a Plus). We have 3 ipad air 2's in my house. 2 more iphones 6's for family members. Couple iMac's. Despite that I am not delusional thinking that apple pay FOR THE CONSUMER is any great leap or even incrementally superior than swiping or tapping to pay a plastic credit card. I think you will be surprised with the very very slow adoption relative to cash and plastic use and plastic uptake in the wild. I've used Apple Pay several times now. It isn't earth shattering. For me not different or easier than using plastic. Maybe your mileage varies.
A lot of stores are accepting, but my Bank (MSU fed credit union), says they will start accepting Apple Pay in Mid 2015! Geesh! And yet, they have the cash to build a new multi million dollar expansion on the main branch and pay us a pittance for interest on our deposits. Their financial goals don't include keeping up with technology, and If they were keeping up with technology I might be able to use apple Pay by now! :-)
Your wrong because Oct 2015 retailers will have to pickup the responsibility. So costs will go up even more once that happens. http://www.mrketplace.com/57196/preparing-for-the-shift-in-credit-card-liability-in-2015/
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A couple of things puzzle me yet though. So far I have only seen "We now accept ApplePay" signs at Panera Bread. I would think that would/could be a decent draw. I also don't understand the possible workflow at a higher end sit down restaurant. Wireless POS of some kind? That seems cumbersome to me, since the customer has to TouchID authenticate the transaction.
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The wireless POS is precisely what they use with chip and PIN in Europe. The waitperson brings a wireless terminal to the table and the patron completes the transaction - never have to even hand over your card. I imagine it would work the same way with the NFC in ApplePay, only easier. It works great, IMHO.
Easier than not having to call them, check for fraudulent charges, remove fraudulent charges, cancel your card, and issue a new card? :no:
[QUOTE]Call took < 5 minutes.[/QUOTE]
It took less 5 minutes to call them and get a new card delivered to you in the mail. That really is convenient¡ :rolleyes:
[QUOTE]I can deal with that once every 10 years or even once every year if it came down to it. A couple minutes to take care of this is not material and certainly not an argument to use Apple Pay over plastic.[/QUOTE]
How about never happening a represential card number and token removes 99.999% of the problem?
[QUOTE]I understand you are a huge apple fan. I may be more of one than you. I personally use two iphones (6 and a Plus). We have 3 ipad air 2's in my house. 2 more iphones 6's for family members. Couple iMac's. [/QUOTE]
Next time lead with how a big a fan you are and how much Apple crap you own so we know you're not rational commenter.