Intel officially unveils full Broadwell-based Intel Core CPU lineup

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  • Reply 21 of 61
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    The update is of particular importance to Apple fans, as the company has been widely rumored to be waiting for Intel to ship Broadwell in order to begin production of a new, redesigned MacBook Air. That device --?which is thought to come in a thin, fanless form factor and sport a Retina display --?

    Err no! This processor is a 15 or 28 watt device and as such is not suitable for a fanless Air. I'm not sure why AI screws this up so often.

    More importantly I'd rather see Apple find a way to plug one of the 28 watt devices into a MBA. The extra performance would certainly be welcomed. In any event what really impresses here is that some models now hover around 200GFlops performance DP out of the GPU. That is a huge milestone and should lead to far better MBA performance.

    the great wait for Apple to release is on!
  • Reply 22 of 61
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    ipen wrote: »
    So, apple decided to stay with Intel instead of using its own A series chips for the mac line.  I'll pass this time.

    How do you figure that. Apparently reading for content here is a problem, this story highlights an Intel release of new product in time for CES. Any comments about Apple are speculation.
  • Reply 23 of 61
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member

    You’ll pass on better performance and actually having a software base? 
    We have no idea what Apples A series processors can do in an environment free of the thermal constraints of an IOS device. I wouldn't expect Apple to put an exact copy of A8, A9 or anything else they build into a laptop. We certainly don't expect Intels tablet chips in respectable laptops.

    The argument about a software base is garbage. Apple created a massive software base for the iPad practically over night. With any sense at all they would leverage that software base in any Arm based laptop they build. That is when they have too, most of the core programs would simply require a recompile for Mac OS/ARM.

    Sounds dumb.

    It isn't dumb, but it isn't a given either. There are of course advantages and disadvantages for Apple, but long term I think they have no choice but to base some of their Mac hardware on ARM. It is more a question of control of ones destiny. I 86 compatibility simply isn't a big deal anymore.
  • Reply 24 of 61
    noliving wrote: »
    Makes sense really in this case, skylake is expected to come out in the second half of this year, meaning broadwell will have only been on the market for a few months maybe a little bit longer than half a year before the skylake processors come out.  Intel has been hyping skylake as being biggest improvement in CPU x86 designs in 10 years.

    Why settle for Skylake when 2016 is only months afterwards and you can get the next hyped processor? And if you wait until 2017, the next processor after that will make you salivate even more. Never, ever buy current gen processor, always wait for the next one.
  • Reply 25 of 61
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    mervynyan wrote: »
    Wonder when will apple refresh its macbook pro line. thinkpad x1 and t series are demoed in CES already.


    These are not MBP suitable chips. The actual real world CPU performance is only up by about 4 percent according to Intel which means in reality you won't even notice. Plus everyone of these is a dual core chip.

    It is possible Apple might go this route to update the 13" MBP but I don't see a compelling reason and further would it make sense to do that before the 15" can be updated. I could be surprised but I see these going into the MBA and little else.
  • Reply 26 of 61
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    mretondo wrote: »
    Exactly! This guy has no idea what he's talking about or guys who tout the A series.
    Actually they have a good handle on what is possible.
    The A series is great for low power devices like phones that don't need much processing power but it can't compare to Intel chips for performance.
    Considering the fixed and relatively low clock rate the A series are performance power houses. The archetectures is impressive and could easily benefit from the same performance enhancements Intel applies to each performance tier.
    The A series would maybe compare to a 5-6 year old Intel chip.
    That depends upon how you measure performance. Plus it assumes that Apple would transplant a tablet processor directly into a laptop. Intel doesn't do that so why would Apple? Apple could achieve a lot in the same way Intel does, improve caches, up clock rates, speed up data paths and so forth. The actual A series cores don't have to change much at all.

    In the end nobody knows for sure how Apples A series chips would perform on a high speed process instead of being built on a process focused on tablets. However a simple jump to 3GHZ could certainly change the equation dramatically.
    So you if want your Mac to go back in time relative to performance then yea the A series is just what you want.

    It isn't about going back in time. It is all about Apple moving forward in control of their destiny. If all you see is a slide back in performance then you need to beef up your imagination a bit. Even after balancing the positives and negatives the idea of Apple offering ARM powered devices as an adjunct to the Intel stuff is very compelling.
  • Reply 27 of 61
    bobschlobbobschlob Posts: 1,074member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppeX View Post



    That is old hardware. Intel Skylake is due soon!




    Even better, the A9



    Fooey!…  The S2

  • Reply 28 of 61
    bobschlobbobschlob Posts: 1,074member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post



    I think we'll finally see a major MBA change.



    That is certainly bound to happen at some point;

    But I love that design soooooooo much, I just can't imagine how they could improve it. I've tried, and I just can't.

    (Talking about the case here)

  • Reply 29 of 61
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,152member
    I've been holding off buying a new machine to replace my decked-out early 2011 i7 13" MBP (16GB, 512GB SSD), but with these chips, and the predicted re-design of the MBA, this might be just the right time for me to make the following statement...

    [SIZE=6]SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!![/SIZE]
  • Reply 30 of 61
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ipen View Post

     

    So, apple decided to stay with Intel instead of using its own A series chips for the mac line.  I'll pass this time.




    You do realize there is a HUGE gulf in performance between Intel's Core™ parts and anything ARM-based, right?

     

    This isn't the weak Atom™ parts we're talking about here.

  • Reply 31 of 61
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member

    Its gonna be tough to give up my 2011 17" MBP with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD attached to a BookEndz dock with built in Optical drive and two external monitors attached. 

     

    On the other hand - towards the end of 2015 I might be in the market for a 13" MBP with 1TB internal drive for the kid and give his 13" 2012 model to mom and get rid of her Aspire One junkbook. 

  • Reply 32 of 61
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member

    You do realize there is a HUGE gulf in performance between Intel's Core™ parts and anything ARM-based, right?
    With A8 running at 1.6 GHz there is a huge gap. Run it at the same clock rate a Broadwell can spin up to and we have a different discussion.
    This isn't the weak Atom™ parts we're talking about here.

    Nor are they the weak Broadwell M solutions that so many want to see in a fanless Air. Yet people have good reason to want a Broadwell M based laptop even if it is a performance regession over today's machines. Whining about a performance regression doesn't make much sense when you have people asking for that In the form of a fanless laptop.

    People should not underestimate what Apples A series could do unconstrained by the tablet environment.
  • Reply 33 of 61
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post





    Why settle for Skylake when 2016 is only months afterwards and you can get the next hyped processor? And if you wait until 2017, the next processor after that will make you salivate even more. Never, ever buy current gen processor, always wait for the next one.

    Because the next one after skylake, cannonlake, is 12-18 months later and is really nothing more than a die shrink while skylake will be released within the next 6-9 months and it features what is considered to be substantial improvements over broadwell, which is really nothing more than a die shrink of hashwell, for example the ability to recharge batteries by wireless.  For laptops like the MBP, depending on how its implemented that could be a big deal, as well as thunderbolt 3.0 support, sata express support, etc.  You also factor in that skylake is going to feature significant power efficiency benefits over broadwell and if you really want broadwell well if you wait the 6-9 months you are going to see prices on broadwell drop like a stone because of intel dumping them.

     

    If skylake was going to be released 12-18 months after broadwell I would agree with you but considering that skylake is a tock design in Intel's tick-tock timetable and is going to be released in 6-9 months from now I think the additional benefits of the tock design outweigh the slightly extra time spent waiting.

  • Reply 34 of 61
    balubalu Posts: 4member

    Too right you are <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" /> 

  • Reply 35 of 61
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,232moderator
    wizard69 wrote: »
    This processor is a 15 or 28 watt device and as such is not suitable for a fanless Air. I'm not sure why AI screws this up so often.

    They have lower configurable TDPs that go down to 7.5W:

    http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/05/intel-broadwell/

    Asus introduced some slim machines with Broadwell in their usual Apple parody style, even making direct comparisons to the Macbook Air and iPad Air because it has a touchscreen:


    [VIDEO]


    Retina IPS display $799. Tack on 20% profit margin and you get a $999 Retina Macbook Air with 128GB SSD, 8GB RAM would be nice but it can start at 4GB DDR4. DDR4 will allow 32GB laptops if Apple chooses to offer it. 24GB at least would be a good option in the MBP.

    The MBP can't be updated until Summer so they may go Broadwell first and then have another update early 2016. It could be worth holding off to get the better Skylake models but people can always sell again with warranty if the upgrade is so compelling. I would guess that Intel plans to put out Skylake U first in the 2nd half so it could still be 9-10 months away from the Broadwell chips.

    It'll need an event if they go Retina and fanless. If they plan to have a Watch launch event in February, maybe it can tag along with that.
  • Reply 36 of 61
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    Marvin wrote: »
    They have lower configurable TDPs that go down to 7.5W:
    That can be read as a configurable performance facility. Running a processor at a low power point does nothing but reduce performance which would undermine the whole point of these processors.

    Asus introduced some slim machines with Broadwell in their usual Apple parody style, even making direct comparisons to the Macbook Air and iPad Air because it has a touchscreen:
    If nothing else that video should highlight how much the Air is in need of an update.


    Retina IPS display $799. Tack on 20% profit margin and you get a $999 Retina Macbook Air with 128GB SSD, 8GB RAM would be nice but it can start at 4GB DDR4. DDR4 will allow 32GB laptops if Apple chooses to offer it. 24GB at least would be a good option in the MBP.
    I didn't even check to see if these processors have DDR4 support. That would be nice, even nicer if they had LPDDR4.
    The MBP can't be updated until Summer so they may go Broadwell first and then have another update early 2016.
    These processors have nothing to offer the MBP's so I can't see Apple being in a rush to update. Unless Intel can bump the clock rates significantly the Broadwell CPU cores would be a ho hum update even if quad cores arrived. Due to this reality and further due to the industry not seeing a real material improvement in CPU performance over the last couple of years I have to beleive Intel is under a lot of pressure from its customers to address this problem. Given that I wouldn't be surprised at all to see SkyLake debut as a performance laptop chip set.
    It could be worth holding off to get the better Skylake models but people can always sell again with warranty if the upgrade is so compelling.
    Maybe. I'm not one to buy then sell again so that wouldn't be the track I'd take. What is pretty clear here though is that this chip would be beautiful in a MBA.

    I would guess that Intel plans to put out Skylake U first in the 2nd half so it could still be 9-10 months away from the Broadwell chips.
    Why would they do that? They have basically failed with the idea that the industry would put up with Intel pushing out the M & U processors first. Sales of these products is highly variable and the M based devices have gotten really negative reviews in the free press.
    It'll need an event if they go Retina and fanless.
    I really don't see what the big draw is with fanless. All that really gets you is lower performance and frankly performance is one of The big problems with modern laptops. I already have an iPad for things where performance doesn't matter.
    If they plan to have a Watch launch event in February, maybe it can tag along with that.
    It won't be long, these are very nice chips that would build into the current Airs very nicely. More so it will allow for the competition to significantly upgrade what they are offering and in that regard milling around isn't an option for Apple. I'd be surprised if they wait till Feburary. Air is currently their most important Mac product, I can't see them messing around any longer than they have too. In fact I would not be surprised to find that Apple is already ramping up production. I could see a bump next week for an early start but no later than mid Feburary.
  • Reply 37 of 61
    jdwjdw Posts: 804member
    Quote wizard69:


     ...M based devices have gotten really negative reviews in the free press.





    ...these are very nice chips that would build into the current Airs very nicely. 

     

    Huh???

  • Reply 38 of 61
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Noliving View Post

     

    Because the next one after skylake, cannonlake, is 12-18 months later and is really nothing more than a die shrink while skylake will be released within the next 6-9 months and it features what is considered to be substantial improvements over broadwell, which is really nothing more than a die shrink of hashwell, for example the ability to recharge batteries by wireless.


     

    You must be very proud to have memorized Intel's future hype map. They've done good job marketing a product you can't buy yet.

  • Reply 39 of 61
    smarkysmarky Posts: 75member
    These chip updates seem so lame and boring. Always focusing on power consumption. Battery life is fine on laptops and most people plug them in anyway. Give us more raw power.

    I am in the market for a retina iMac within the next 1-3 months, for those in the know... Is it worth waiting for the next cpu spec upgrade?
  • Reply 40 of 61
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,232moderator
    wizard69 wrote: »
    Running a processor at a low power point does nothing but reduce performance which would undermine the whole point of these processors.

    The point of ULT processors is low power draw. If the point was performance, they wouldn't have such low TDPs. People who struggle with the Air's performance should get a MBP but the Air is only half the performance anyway. If they make a super thin, lighter, quieter, longer-lasting, Retina Air, that's more compelling to low-end buyers than CPU/GPU performance most won't be using.

    12" Retina fanless Macbook (from $999), 14"/15" Retina fanless Macbook (from $1299), 15" Retina Macbook Pro (from $1899).

    The Air base can be almost as thin as an iPad.
    wizard69 wrote: »
    I really don't see what the big draw is with fanless.

    If you'd be against adding a fan to an iPad, that's the draw. If it's a negative adding a fan to an iPad then it's a positive for the Air to remove one. Once they go fanless then they can keep improving the performance just like the iPad. It means people who want MBP performance in an Air so they don't have to pay more will have to keep upgrading for another 3-4 years to reach that and that's the whole point.
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