Despite lawsuit, Apple's iOS 8 storage is actually far more efficient than Google's Android, Samsung

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  • Reply 101 of 137
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post

     



    It does but seeing as how Lollipop has corrected or greatly improved SD card support, Mr. Dilger's omission of this fact is the FUD that Gatorguy mentioned. I suspect however that Daniel will soon counter with the "Not Everyone Is On Lollipop" argument to further the FUD.


     

    Your idea that "Lollipop has corrected or greatly improved SD card support" really has little relevance. The fact that developers "can" now create apps that let users access SD Cards to save or access arbitrary files doesn't change the fact that adding an SD Card does not increase your storage in a way that users would expect. 

     

    Adding a 64GB SD Card doesn't make a 16GB phone into a 80GB phone. You can do some file system operations to save files, but you can't add more music, take more photos in your camera roll library or load a bunch more apps. SD Card storage on an Android device is nothing like adding more RAM to a PC. It's like adding a floppy drive. 

     

    Apple's solution is and has always been to add more actual storage for users. When iPhones arrived, typical "smartphones" had very little storage. The first Android phones (G1) had ~192MB of storage when Apple was selling 8/16GB iPhones.

     

    Today, Apple has leveraged its acquisition of Anobit to enable cost effective phones with 64/128GB of local storage, with a cheap 16GB option for entry level users. Android flagships have much less.

     

    * Nexus 6 has 32/64GB, with no SD Card slot. Note that Nexus is Google's "how to do Android" phone model. 

    * Nexus 9 tablet similarly has just 16GB, with no SD Card slot.

    * Galaxy S5 has 16/32GB options, with an SD Card slot that can only be used as a removable file system disk. Adding a 128GB card doesn't give you the equivalent to a 128GB iPhone 6, as explained above. 

    * Xiaomi Mi4 has 16GB, no card slot

    * HTC one has just 16GB, with its limited SD card slot

     

    So no, you & Gatorguy and the rest of the Android troll patrol are painfully wrong on every level. 

     

    And according to Google, 33% of its installed base has KitKat with pulled SD Card support, and Lollipop isn't even listed as having 1% yet. But Android 5 doesn't "restore" the 2006 era SD Card functions, and Nexus is clearly demonstrating that Google is following Apple, not working to make SD Cards the solution to putting weak amounts of storage on low end phones. 

  • Reply 102 of 137
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,918member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Yet how many articles have we read that claim Apple isn't like the rest of the industry, but now it conveniently is.

    Apple isn't but it still has to conform to some standards as a comparison. Again, people are lazy.
  • Reply 103 of 137
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    jungmark wrote: »
    Apple isn't but it still has to conform to some standards as a comparison. Again, people are lazy.

    Since when are memory options considered standards?
  • Reply 104 of 137
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,918member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Since when are memory options considered standards?

    Options aren't standard. Nomenclature is.
  • Reply 105 of 137
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member

    See above for full text

    So no, you & Gatorguy and the rest of the Android troll patrol are painfully wrong on every level. 


    Aren't they always though? :no:

    Excellent rebuttal.
  • Reply 106 of 137
    I worked in retail for many of years. I had a theory that anyone walking into the store would be automatically deemed an idiot, until evidence of intelligent life is found.

    This "fiasco" falls in the same realm. If people can honestly believe they will get 100% of anything is ridiculous. With computers this has been an issues for as long as I can remember. Your phone is a computer, there is no difference. The OS takes up space. your the idiot that bought a 16gb, don't blame the company. wether it be APPLE, GOOGLE, MS or anyone else.

    it's for these reason I buy the highest end model. cause I know shit takes up space, and I like to save my pix. hell I even have the 20gb iCloud Drive, 5gb Google Drive, iTunes Match, and my own 4TB home based Cloud storage.

    That home-based cloud storage is the best! I have a WD MyCloud 3 Tb and it is a godsend. I highly recommend it to EVERYBODY! And a 128 Gb iPhone 6 helps with storage space issues, too. Just sayin.'
  • Reply 107 of 137
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    No argument here, but it would be nice if Apple would also advertise how much free space there is on their devices.

    Very first footnote on all Apple devices: "1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less". Even if Apple added an extra sentence stating the estimated free space, you can't teach ignorant people how to read. They will selectively ignore it and still sue companies. They choose Apple because they have the biggest wallet.
  • Reply 108 of 137
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    hillstones wrote: »
    Very first footnote on all Apple devices: "1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less". Even if Apple added an extra sentence stating the estimated free space, you can't teach ignorant people how to read. They will selectively ignore it and still sue companies. They choose Apple because they have the biggest wallet.

    I'm not looking for a footnote, I'm looking for something on their tech spec comparison page that shows how much space (approx.) is available for the user. This is for their Macs, too. But you're right, in a world where have people suing for this it's hard to be hopeful this would be useful to anyone that isn't already in the know.
  • Reply 109 of 137
    wigby wrote: »
    mpantone wrote: »
    No, it is not, which is why you can't drive in the carpool lane with a corpse, skeleton, ashes from the crematorium, whatever. Also, pets aren't passengers to the DMV. Your Golden Retriever or parakeet will not allow you to drive in the carpool lane either.

    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">A dead body is an object. It won't show up on the passenger manifest on a commercial airline flight, it's cargo.</span>


    Nice try though.
    How dare you refer to my murder victims as common cargo!

    Dead Weight?
    Back Seat Rigor?
  • Reply 110 of 137
    Shame
    scottyltd wrote: »
    I agree with the general talk point of this article.
    However, If you are going to compare an Apple iPad, the least you could do was compare it to a Windows tablet like Surface 2. It's not fair to compare a tablet with a full computer.
    Surface 2 64gb leaves about 47gb to user. For less money than an ipad 16gb this isn't bad!!!

    Surface 2 32gb leaves about 16gb to user. HELLO, not bad at all.
    Less money, more memory.
    it runs windows ! Lol . Well this is appleinsider
  • Reply 111 of 137
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post





    Frick me, the OS uses ? 16GB? Wow. Just wow. Way to go Microsoft¡



    Well, a full Office was included in it. Word, Excel, PowerPoint etc..

     

    But yes, massive 16gb

  • Reply 112 of 137
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    So much back-and-forth blah blah...and no-one mentions the superb and hysterically funny Mitchell & Webb surreal take on the US "I'm a Mac and I'm a..." ad campaign. Not to take anything away from the original series - they were great, but to us Brits, a bit of self mockery really hits the mark.
    I wish they'd done more.
  • Reply 113 of 137
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,671member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    I'm not looking for a footnote, I'm looking for something on their tech spec comparison page that shows how much space (approx.) is available for the user. This is for their Macs, too. But you're right, in a world where have people suing for this it's hard to be hopeful this would be useful to anyone that isn't already in the know.

    That info I cannot find. They do state something about formatting:

    Mac notebooks: Mac OS X and Solid State Drive manufacturers report drive capacity differently
    The Solid State Drive capacity stated in the product specification may be higher than what is reported by Mac OS X.

    Solid State Drive (SSD) storage differs from the previous hard disk drive (HDD) mechanism in that SSD has no moving parts. Instead of using a rotating disk to store information, the SSD uses Solid State memory. When using Solid State memory, buffer space is allocated to allow all the memory locations to be used evenly. This allocation gives SSDs a longer life.

    As with HDD, the SSD also allocates space to handle administrative functions such as dealing with bad locations. You can see this difference if you look at how your computer summarizes the capacity of the computer’s storage drive, for example, in Disk Utility's Total Capacity listing.

    The storage drive in your Apple product, like all storage drives, uses some capacity for formatting so there will be less capacity available for applications. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, also uses part of the available storage capacity on the drive.

    You can also refer to the capacity calculation difference between drive manufacturers and Mac OS X as described in this article.

    http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203252

    How OS X and iOS report storage capacity
    Learn why the storage capacity stated in a product's specification may be lower than what is reported by OS X or iOS.

    This article applies to any kind storage media that an Apple product ships with, such as a hard drive (most Macs and some earlier iPods), flash drive (iPad, iPhone, most iPods), Flash Storage, or solid-state drive (SSD) (some MacBook models).

    Capacity stated on product packaging

    Storage device manufacturers measure capacity using the decimal system (base 10), so 1 gigabyte (GB) is calculated as exactly 1,000,000,000 bytes. The capacity of the storage media in your Mac, iPad, iPod, iPhone and other Apple hardware is measured using this decimal system. This is detailed on product packaging and online through the statement "1 GB = 1 billion bytes."

    Understanding storage capacity in iPad, iPhone, iPod

    When you view the storage capacity of your iPod, iPhone, iPad, or other electronic devices within its operating system, the capacity is reported using the the binary system (base 2) of measurement. In binary, 1 GB is calculated as 1,073,741,824 bytes.

    For example: The way decimal and binary numeral systems measure a GB is what causes a 32 GB storage device to appear as approximately 28 GB when detailed by its operating system, even though the storage device still has 32 billion bytes (not 28 billion bytes), as reported.

    You can see this difference if you look at how your computer summarizes the capacity of your iPod, iPad, or iPhone’s storage when the device is connected to your computer. You will also see this difference in the About menu on your iPod, iPad, or iPhone. The important point to understand is that the available storage capacity is the same no matter which system (decimal or binary) is used. Nothing is missing.

    The storage media in your Apple product, like all storage devices, uses some of its capacity for formatting, so actual capacity available for applications and files will be less. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, will also use part of the available storage capacity.

    Understanding storage capacity in Mac OS X v10.6, OS X Lion, and OS X Mountain Lion

    In Mac OS X v10.6 and later, storage capacity is displayed as per product specifications using the decimal system (base 10). A 200 GB drive shows 200 GB capacity (for example, if you select the hard drive's icon and choose Get Info from the Finder's File menu, then look at the Capacity line). If you upgrade from an earlier version of OS X, your drive may show more capacity than it did in the earlier OS X version.

    The storage drive in your computer with Mac OS X v10.6 and later, like all storage drives, uses some capacity for formatting, so actual storage available for applications will be less. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, will also use part of the available storage capacity on the drive.

    Understanding storage capacity in Solid State Drives and Flash Storage

    Storage capacity displayed in Disk Utility for Solid State Drives and Flash Storage will show a slightly smaller size. For example, a 256 GB Solid State Drive (SSD) should have a total of approximately 250 GB.

    These items may account for the additional space used in your Solid State drive and Flash Storage:

    EFI Partition
    Restore Partition
    Wear-leveling blocks
    Write-buffer area
    Metadata
    Spare blocks
    Grown bad blocks
    Factory bad blocks
    Note: Mac OS X v10.5 and earlier, along with Microsoft Windows, use the Base 2 system.



    http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201402

    scottyltd wrote: »
    Well, a full Office was included in it. Word, Excel, PowerPoint etc..

    But yes, massive 16gb

    That I didn't know; thanks. Still, huge indeed. iWork is what, <600MB. For iOS it's 338+336+513?1.2GB (p/n/k)
  • Reply 114 of 137
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    Your idea that "Lollipop has corrected or greatly improved SD card support" really has little relevance. The fact that developers "can" now create apps that let users access SD Cards to save or access arbitrary files doesn't change the fact that adding an SD Card does not increase your storage in a way that users would expect. 

    Adding a 64GB SD Card doesn't make a 16GB phone into a 80GB phone. You can do some file system operations to save files, but you can't add more music, take more photos in your camera roll library or load a bunch more apps. SD Card storage on an Android device is nothing like adding more RAM to a PC. It's like adding a floppy drive.

    You do research things before you state them as fact, right? Sometimes, and admittedly rarely, it looks like you don't.

    "Apps get full SD card access
    You might have noticed starting with Android KitKat that there were some changes to how apps could access different areas of a device's storage, particularly an inserted microSD card. Developers complained about these restrictions, and Google responded in Lollipop by more or less completely opening access to inserted memory cards. This makes it much easier for media-heavy apps to seamlessly store and access photos, video or audio files on a memory card with less hassle.

    But perhaps most notably, the change also makes it possible for apps to install themselves entirely on the SD card, which should be a nice way of offsetting the fact that ART-friendly apps now take up more space."
    http://www.gizmag.com/5-features-android-lollipop-worth-upgrade/34982/
  • Reply 115 of 137
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,671member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    [^ post]

    I read somewhere that these SD Cards are 'always' formatted as FAT, and consequently have no security, like with NTFS, in place. Is that true, and if so, can any app read data from any other app on that SD Card? Or is it perhaps a non-issue, if these apps don't store my GPS info from my running or cycling activity?
  • Reply 116 of 137
    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

    I'll pretend the truth if it's all the same to you, which is what I said above.

     

    Yes, that’s right. You’re pretending the truth is what you said above, but it isn’t.

  • Reply 117 of 137
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    You do research things before you state them as fact, right? Sometimes, and admittedly rarely, it looks like you don't.

    "Apps get full SD card access
    You might have noticed starting with Android KitKat that there were some changes to how apps could access different areas of a device's storage, particularly an inserted microSD card. Developers complained about these restrictions, and Google responded in Lollipop by more or less completely opening access to inserted memory cards. This makes it much easier for media-heavy apps to seamlessly store and access photos, video or audio files on a memory card with less hassle.

    But perhaps most notably, the change also makes it possible for apps to install themselves entirely on the SD card, which should be a nice way of offsetting the fact that ART-friendly apps now take up more space."
    http://www.gizmag.com/5-features-android-lollipop-worth-upgrade/34982/

    Here is a nice quote, seems whatever Google have done with Lollypop to try to rectify the mess, not too many are having fun with it. http://www.dailytech.com/Android+Lollipop+Adoption+Abysmal+Thus+Far+Under+01+a+Month+After+Launch/article36948.htm
  • Reply 118 of 137
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Yes, that’s right. You’re pretending the truth is what you said above, but it isn’t.


    Except it is.  Go ahead, pretend otherwise.

  • Reply 119 of 137
    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

    Except it is.

     

    Great argument¡ Learn what a legal precedent is.

  • Reply 120 of 137
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,025member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Great argument¡ Learn what a legal precedent is.


    Great argument, with brilliant citations and relevant examples¡  

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