Building a gaming PC; need advice!!!

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
I want to build a really good gaming PC. I'm thinking of using an Athlon 2100 or a P4 2.2. Also I want a really cool case like those from <a href="http://www.colorcase.com"; target="_blank">www.colorcase.com</a>. After those things, I'm not sure of what other components I should get. Reccomendations on video cards, sound cards, cooling and other components would be much appreciated. I've only built one PC before and that was a K6-2 so I could use some advice. Thanks in advance.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 38
    tigerwoods99tigerwoods99 Posts: 2,633member
    How much you willing to spend?
  • Reply 2 of 38
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    You need to know two things:



    1) Your budget

    2) <a href="http://www.pricewatch.com"; target="_blank">http://www.pricewatch.com</a>;
  • Reply 3 of 38
    [quote]I want to build a really good gaming PC<hr></blockquote>



    Check. Some advice: If you're considering using a P4, you might want to wait until after the first 2 weeks or so of May, as the 533MHz FSB P4's are supposed to be launched around then. Pairing those up with PC1066 RDRAM should be a pretty good boost per-clock over equally clocked 400MHz FSB P4's with PC800 RDRAM.



    If you're going to use an Athlon, I'd suggest you wait until the .13um Thoroughbred core is launched in a few weeks -- they run cooler.



    You can build right now if you choose, but these are just some pieces of advice.



    Some places to get components:

    <a href="http://www.pricewatch.com"; target="_blank">Pricewatch</a>

    <a href="http://www.mwave.com"; target="_blank">MWave</a>

    <a href="http://www.newegg.com"; target="_blank">NewEgg</a>



    A good place to find parts advice, especially mobo/proc/RAM: <a href="http://www.arstechnica.com"; target="_blank">Ars Technica.</a> Look in the CPU&Mobo Tech forum for tons of threads on what motherboard to buy, and what processor, etc. Just read a page or two of threads and you should find lots of advice.



    For benchmarks:

    <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com"; target="_blank">Tom's Hardware</a>

    <a href="http://www.anandtech.com"; target="_blank">Anandtech</a>

    <a href="http://www.hardocp.com"; target="_blank">[H]ard OCP</a>

    <a href="http://www.tech-report.com"; target="_blank">Tech Report</a>



    Hmmm...lot of URL's in this post.
  • Reply 4 of 38
    g4dudeg4dude Posts: 1,016member
    Thanks for the info. I'm in no rush so I'll wait till the new CPU's come out. I like the Radeon All-in-Wonder 8500 but how much worse is the performance compared to a GeForce 4 Ti? Does anyone have a link to any benchmarks? Also, how many games take advantage of 5.1 surround sound?



    [ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: G4Dude ]</p>
  • Reply 5 of 38
    [quote]how is the performance compared to a GeForce 4 Ti<hr></blockquote>



    Slower.



    As to 5.1 surround sound, since I don't use it, I don't know what games take advantage of it.
  • Reply 6 of 38
    g4dudeg4dude Posts: 1,016member
    What type of display would be the best? 19" CRT? For games, an LCD would be less then perfect, no?



    [ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: G4Dude ]</p>
  • Reply 7 of 38
    fran441fran441 Posts: 3,715member
    I still see no point in going out and spending thousands of dollars to buy a 'gaming' PC. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
  • Reply 8 of 38
    g4dudeg4dude Posts: 1,016member
    [quote]Originally posted by Fran441:

    <strong>I still see no point in going out and spending thousands of dollars to buy a 'gaming' PC. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    And it's so I can browse the web fast. It will be my primary DVD viewing source also. Not just for games but mostly.
  • Reply 9 of 38
    [quote]I still see no point in going out and spending thousands of dollars to buy a 'gaming' PC.<hr></blockquote>



    1. So that he can play the latest games, when they come out, at often significantly faster speeds than on a Mac that costs twice as much or more.

    2. To have fun.

    3. It's only money anyway.



    Besides, a 'gaming' PC doesn't have to cost thousands. It can be less than $1000 if you're smart.



    [ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: TheAlmightyBabaramm ]</p>
  • Reply 10 of 38
    emaneman Posts: 7,204member
    [quote]Originally posted by TheAlmightyBabaramm:

    <strong>



    1. So that he can play the latest games, when they come out, at often significantly faster speeds than on a Mac that costs twice as much or more.

    2. To have fun.

    3. It's only money anyway.



    Besides, a 'gaming' PC doesn't have to cost thousands. It can be less than $1000 if you're smart.



    [ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: TheAlmightyBabaramm ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    But it's still stupid to spend money on a computer just for gaming. Why not just get a console for that?
  • Reply 11 of 38
    cakecake Posts: 1,010member
    Because consoles aren't what some of us play games on.

    I built a PC a year ago strictly for UT and got a pretty good gaming box. I still mainly play on my G4/533DP, but my AMD1.2/DDR/GF3Ti serves me well

    .

    I'm dumping this box and building a new PC soon - unless the G5/DDR comes out in July.
  • Reply 12 of 38
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    And you can run a superior OS that actually has good applications! *gasp*



    I would find it difficult to build a PC using as much money as it costs to buy a Mac.



    Dual AthlonXP2000, GeForce4Ti4600, 512mDDR, 80g HD, SB Audigy Platinum, DVD/CD-RW(40x-12x-48x), Nice KB/Mouse

    Cost: Roughly equal to a low-end PowerMac
  • Reply 13 of 38
    g4dudeg4dude Posts: 1,016member
    [quote]Originally posted by groverat:

    <strong>And you can run a superior OS that actually has good applications! *gasp*



    I would find it difficult to build a PC using as much money as it costs to buy a Mac.



    Dual AthlonXP2000, GeForce4Ti4600, 512mDDR, 80g HD, SB Audigy Platinum, DVD/CD-RW(40x-12x-48x), Nice KB/Mouse

    Cost: Roughly equal to a low-end PowerMac</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Damn, I didn't know it would be that cheap to get those kind of specs! Now THAT was good help, thanks groverat
  • Reply 14 of 38
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Dude, if you want a gaming PC get an XBox. That's what it is, basically.



    I've been playing the XBox lately, and it's pretty damn cool. I don't think I have any interest in buying one since I have access to one with a ton of games anyway, but the games are quite fun and there are quite enough to keep you busy. Plus it takes up less space and can (supposedly) be used online.



    [edit]



    It's also much more convenient to have a DVD player that's not your computer. The XBox sits under the TV, too. very convenient. Get a nice 24 or 27 inch tv and you have a sweet display for that Xbox.



    Lastly, I sort of wonder where you get this "browse the web quickly" thing. I'm running OS X on a 500Mhz PBG4, and the web is no slower than it is on PC's I've used.



    [ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</p>
  • Reply 15 of 38
    eskimoeskimo Posts: 474member
    [quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:

    <strong>Thanks for the info. I'm in no rush so I'll wait till the new CPU's come out. I like the Radeon All-in-Wonder 8500 but how much worse is the performance compared to a GeForce 4 Ti? Does anyone have a link to any benchmarks? Also, how many games take advantage of 5.1 surround sound?



    [ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: G4Dude ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Are you actually going to use the Video In/Out, tv tuner of the All in wonder? Because if you aren't its not worth the extra money. That said the GeForce4 4400 and 4600 outperform the 8500. Performance advantage depends on the application/game. But on most popular games the difference is around 30-40 frames/sec. If you are planning on playing the newest most graphic intensive games at high resolutions the GeForce4 would be a good bet for future proofing. Plus Nvidia has a much better driver development program than ATI for the PC. ATI's drivers have been plauged by multiple bugs that led to a variety problems from objects not being rendered correctly, stability, and speed impacts.



    As for 5.1 sound most of the modern games out today have support for either A3D or EAX surround sound which were developed by Aureal and Creative Labs respectively. Creative Labs (they make soundblaster) bought out Aureal. Both of these technologies are based on 4.1 sound. You can use 5.1 for watching your DVDs and most 5.1 pc speakers and soundcards have the ability to mix 4.1 sound to use your center channel through software (that's what I use).



    Speakers = Logitech Z560 if you don't mind POWERFUL bass and aren't terribly picky about classical music quality and such. For the price the most powerful pc speakers you can get.



    Sound Card = Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, fairly cheap and terrific drivers as opposed to the abomination that is/was SoundBlaster LiveWare. I hear the Audigy isn't as bad, but I don't trust creative anymore after bad experiences.



    Are you planning/willing to overclock? If so then I would suggest a P4 1.6A (northwood), overclocks very easily with stock heatsink up to 2.1-2.2GHz levels. Get an Asus P4B266 motherboard for it.



    If you go Athlon the choice of a power supply is especially critical. Enermax, Sparkle, and Antec all make topshelf power supplies. Anyone else consult AMD's configuration guide they have on their website for approved supplies. Lots of motherboard choices, Via KT266A is fastest but some stability problems, Nvidia Nforce is very nice but slightly more expensive until new version without integrated video comes out. There are DDR333 (PC2700) systems coming out now but the advantage of them over PC2100 is neglible and doesn't justify the price premium.
  • Reply 16 of 38
    emaneman Posts: 7,204member
    [quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:

    <strong>



    Lastly, I sort of wonder where you get this "browse the web quickly" thing. I'm running OS X on a 500Mhz PBG4, and the web is no slower than it is on PC's I've used.



    [ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    What kind of PC are you using? Web browsing for the most part is extremely fast compared to browsing on Macs.
  • Reply 17 of 38
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    [quote]Originally posted by EmAn:

    <strong>



    What kind of PC are you using? Web browsing for the most part is extremely fast compared to browsing on Macs.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Erm, I'll check that up for you. It's running Windows 2000 and it's a Silicon Graphics. I think it's a dual P3 Xeon, maybe 933Mhz.



    No noticeable difference than on my PBG4.
  • Reply 18 of 38
    emaneman Posts: 7,204member
    [quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:

    <strong>



    Erm, I'll check that up for you. It's running Windows 2000 and it's a Silicon Graphics. I think it's a dual P3 Xeon, maybe 933Mhz.



    No noticeable difference than on my PBG4.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That's very surprising.
  • Reply 19 of 38
    macaddictmacaddict Posts: 1,055member
    Ahh, we're in the same boat man. Just brush away all the guys trying to make you feel guilty.



    First off, resist the urge to get all the top end components with all the whiz bang features. Coming from the Mac side (like I did), you think "damn, I was gonna spend $1600 for a PowerMac, but now I'll spend it on a PC and get all sorts of cool widgets". Don't. You pay a huge premium for the best...for instance, you pay about an extra $50 for 66MHz of performance. Not worth it!



    The sweet spot for CPU performance on the Socket A (also known as Socket 462) side of things (that's what the socket interface for Athlons/Durons is...P4s use socket 478) is either the XP1700 or 1800+. Both are in the 110-130 range. Don't forget you can always overclock or upgrade later on when you feel more comfortable, and if you fux0r it up, you won't be $260 in the hole as you would if you bought a 2100+.



    Be sure to buy everything from a reputable vendor. MWave and NewEgg are the best IMHO. I'd recommend you buy everything from NewEgg so you can save on shipping, plus everything will arrive at the same time. They are great about giving tracking numbers, status updates, giving out RMAs, etc...basically a system builders dream retailer. They're prices are always very very good as well.



    Register at Ars Technica. 90% of those guys build their systems and they are very knowledgable and can answer all sorts of questions. In fact, right now, head on over and post a thread in CPU & Motherboard Technologia (usually where questions about building your system goes, unless it clearly is Case stuff) similiar to this. Be sure to mention you're coming from the Mac so they don't throw out a ton of weird crap at you.



    Read read read. These sites will be a godsend when you want to know what's happening:



    Pricewatch.com

    Anandtech.com

    Tomshardware.com (even though some people frown on his site, I find most stuff of his quite informative)

    ArsTechnica.com (their forums, really, but they also have a great system builder guide)

    xbitlabs.com

    sharkyextreme.com

    aceshardware.com



    I'd recommend holding off a bit before you splurge. I originally wanted to buy the parts in let's see, July last year? And I waited, read stuff, read, read, read. I kept waiting for the next best thing to come out. I'm very happy I did that, because I bought what I felt I needed and what people considered to be good, and I don't regret anything (except maybe the KT266A...not sure though, it might work out).



    Remember, your system will garaunteed not boot perfectly on your first try. Did mine? No...I pressed the wrong damn power button. Then it didn't work because (I think) my video card was dead. So I RMAed it to NewEgg, and a new one should come this week.
  • Reply 20 of 38
    macaddictmacaddict Posts: 1,055member
    Okay, I'm afraid of making long posts, so here's what I got, and some suggestions as to what you might buy instead:



    For the CPU, I went with an Athlon XP1700+. It was an OEM which means it comes without a heatsink and fan. It cost me $117 from NewEgg. Prices have come down since though, so you may be able to get an XP1800+ for just a tad more.



    Heatsink? I got the Alpha PAL8045. It's the best damn Socket A HS out there IMO. Something like $35, and there's a nice little phamplet to explain how you mount it, comes with all the screws, etc. Highly recommended.



    Fans? I outfitted my case with 4 Panaflo fans. They're made by Panasonic and push a decent amount of air for the noise they make. They are pretty quiet. I also got one for the heatsink. The Alpha will take any standard 80MM fan, Fans will come in 60MM, 80MM, 92MM, and 120MM sizes in diameter. There are smaller ones etc. for graphics cards and stuff, but those are the most common sizes. A run down on fan makers (you will soon realize how important fans are):



    Delta: Incredibly loud, but push incredible amounts of air. Make a high pitched whine that has been known to drive people insane.

    Sunon: Push good amount of air, but very loud. Not as loud as Delta though.

    Panaflo: A good blend of loudness/airflow.

    Sanyo: Kind of the midrange, average...I'm not really sure though, I haven't heard much.

    Papst: Very quiet, push a respectable amount of air, but are quite expensive.



    Memory: If you're going AMD, DDR is the only way to go really. You could get SDRAM, but...no. Crucial, Cosair, Mushkin, Samsung, Micron, and Kingston (as long as you don't get the ValueRam or whatever), are great. Emphasis on the first two. For speeds, AMD currently only has chips that use a 133MHz bus (effectively 266MHz DDR), so anything above is useless unless you overclock.



    PC2100: 133MHz (266)

    PC2400: 150MHz (300)

    PC2700: 183MHz (333)

    Beyond that there is PC3000, PC3200, etc, but AFAIK no memory makers manufacture &gt;200MHz parts so chances are they're overclocked. I'd stick with the above speeds, and just get vanilla PC2100 unless you plan on overclocking. Keep in mind that many people have had great success with overclocking Crucial and Corsair PC2100 chips though. CAS 2.5 is the standard latency for DDR. I got one 256MB PC2100 stick from NewEgg (Crucial brand). It cost me about $80.



    Video: This will need a ton of research. For gaming, I'd look straight to one of these three chipset families:



    Radeon 8500 (includes the LE etc)

    GeForce 3/NV20 (Ti 200, Regular, Ti 500)

    GeForce 4/NV25 (Ti4400, Ti 4600, and the 4200 later on)



    This is a whole new topic...we could go on for ages. You have to decide how much you want to spend, etc.



    Mobo: There are a few chipsets competing for Socket A. There's the Via KT266A and KT333, the ALi Magik 1, the nForce, and the Sis 645 (I think, not really sure about SiS). The word:



    KT266A: Tried and true, it is simply one of the fastest, cheapest solutions. Unfortunately, it has been known to poorly manage the PCI bus. Do not use with anything Creative! Garaunteed problems.



    KT333: A 166MHz bus version. Useless unless you overclock your Athlon, but many are interested nonetheless. Not really been out for too long though, and Via has a reputation for not getting anything right until the "A" revision comes.



    nForce: Hands down the fastest, most stable chipset out there. This is what I'd recommend. You pay a premium for nForce motherboards, but I highly recommend it. I've heard nothing but praise for the nForce. Plus, they overclock like mad (usually up to a 160-170MHz bus...crazy!).



    ALi: Ermm...slow. Supposedly cool. For some reason reminds me of asparagus (don't ask).



    SiS: Has some cool features I think, but again, don't really know.



    There's also the aging AMD 760 chipset, but they're pretty slow and old. They are stable though, but it's getting harder and harder to find an AMD 760 mobo.



    I went with the EPoX 8KHA+ KT266A motherboard. It's like $90 and the fastest KT266A motherboard, overclocks like mad, etc etc. No whiz-bang features, but it has everything I wanted: Overclocking in the BIOS, 6PCI slots, 3 DIMM slots, and the standard ports. However, there is one problem: They are not compatible with GeForce 4s! Ahh! I bought it before this was known, and I now feel bad. But Visiontek has modified their GeForce 4 to work with it. I'm not sure about the other card makers. The thing is that a capacitator is in the way on the mobo, and another cap on the GF4 will smush it. Visiontek replaced their cap with a low-profile cap (hooray for Visiontek!).



    HD: Go with IDE, for sure! SCSI is a pain in the ass for us n00b PC builders. Stay away from IBM, except for maybe the 120GXP series...they can't seem to make anything without crapping it up these days. Maxtor, Western Digital, and Seagate (wait, do they even make IDE drives?) are all good choices. I'd go Maxtor?supposedly the fastest. Go with a 7200RPM, and then decide on the size. I got a 40GB 7200RPM Maxtor 740DX. Price? $85.



    NIC: You're gonna need one to use a cable connection. Otherwise, use a modem or whatever. I went with Linksys, but to be safe, 3Com and Intel supposedly make the best NICs and they're the most stable etc. Might as well for over a little extra for the good brand. They're only like $35 anyway.



    CDROM: Whatever. Doesn't really matter. They're all fine. For CDRW though, I'd get a LiteOn. They work great (I use one with my G4), and are dirt cheap. Plextor is super, but way too expensive IMHO.



    DVD: Toshiba is good, I've heard. Same with Pioneer, LiteOn, etc.



    Case: Okay, this is tough. Sure, a case is a case, but you want a blend of cooling, appearance, and price. You also want a good power supply. Here's what I'd get:



    The Antec SX1040B. It's black, has a solid 400W Antec PSU, and is a very very good case. I have basically a clone with a generic 420W PSU (hey, it seems to work). Has room for 4 80MM fans, comes with 2. 6 3.5" bays, 4 full size external bays.



    Sound Card: I skipped this. I wanted to keep things simple so I decided to stick with the onboard AC97 (teh lose) on my mobo for awhile. But if you want any quality, get a sound card (unless you go nForce, which has an onboard 5.1 chip...great sound from what I've heard, making a sound card useless unless you need tons of weird ports etc). TB Santa Cruz = teh win. Listen to Eskimo!



    Monitor: Meh, use whatever you have now to make sure that it works first is what I'd do, then choose a quality 19". Just ask Tigerwoods, he'll give you a billion choices for a flat 19" CRT. You'll want something that will do the res you want (1600 x 1200, probably) at a decent refresh rate (75 or 85Hz, depends). Definately go flat. There is such a difference.



    Get whatever keyboard you can. I got one for free at a university. Online you can get one for like $2.



    Mouse: I think you can handle a mouse



    Now, REGISTER ON ARS! Best choice I ever made. You'll see me around there as MacAddict (my old handle around here as well).



    Oh yeah, I got an old GeForce 2 GTS-V (underclocked GTS) for like $50. I figure I'll upgrade later to a GF4 when I get things working. The total system cost me $710 or so. Add the extra cost for say, a GF3 Ti 200, and you have an ass-kickin' gaming system for less than $900!



    [ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: radar1503 ]</p>
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