[quote] I don't know about you, but the more desktop I have with Flash, Dreamweaver, Interdev, Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, Outlook, Trillian, and half a dozen browsers, the better. <hr></blockquote>
Absolutely. I have a dual monitor setup but I would prefer a Cinema display and a HQ plasma for video preview. Toolbars/pallets and finding room for them is the biggest problem with pro software these days.
[quote]Originally posted by JYD in another thread:
If you are familliar with my posts, then you surely know that when booze or weed is involved, I give intricate, detailed reports on inside info (with a sly grin and a little wink).<hr></blockquote>
Now look at JYD's original post in this thread and draw your own conclusions.This isn't about inside information, but that hardly makes a difference IMO. Put the weed away Dawg; you're deluding yourself again. Why?
BECAUSE ADVANCEMENTS IN WINTEL TECHNOLOGY HAVE LITTLE BEARING ON APPLE ANYMORE - THE OS WAR IS OVER; WE LOST. DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE DEAD!!
Pay attention kiddies; this what happens when people don't pay attention during math class / economics. No matter what Wintel does, Apple has about 30 million users and counting. The new OS gets better and better, there are more apps everyday that we never used to have (everything from commercial stuff to shareware) and undoubtedly the hardware will get much better this year as well. Takes a genius to figure that out, wonder why JYD hasn't yet.
<strong>Believe it or not, not one person in this forum has a use for a 64 bit, $10,000+ workstation. Unless you are using Maya, or realtime effects compositing, or real time streaming to 1000 seperate people, at three different compression levels.
To JYD's original point -- I agree that Macs are a fair ways behind in the performance game, and for a purchaser looking at the PowerMac it really doesn't look like such a good value these days. I want a new machine, my old upgraded one is on its last legs and it terribly unstable. I want to run MacOSX, have FireWire and USB ports, and play will all the new iApps. But at the current price/performance level I won't touch a Mac.
The recent 2.4GHz P4 announcement is insignificant, really... its only <10% improvement, but it is useful to remind us of the current state of affairs. Unlike JD, however, I don't think things are so bleak... Apple is going to have a rough quarter or two, but they can afford to ride it out, and after that I think things are going to pick up. I'm optimistic that a new processor will ship at MWNY, and that it will represent more than a 10% performance improvement. Don't know (or care) if it'll be called a G4 or a G5, but it will be faster. We know that these things have been in development for some time now, and they should be close to the end of the R&D cycle. There are just too many tidbits and rumours floating around to ignore.
To anyone with a pre-firewire Mac who won't upgrade because they don't think it'd be enough of an improvement: you'd be surprised
To everyone else: who do you think actually cares? Either you've got some rumours or you haven't. If you want to complain about the current Apple line-up, send them a letter and then get upset whn you don't get a handwritten reply from Steve Jobs.
Right. However they are _not_ able to.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know exactly what to do with a 2 GHz G5. Software samplers! Virtual Instruments! Realtime Effects! It really p***** me off that some people say we couldn't do anything with a decent machine like that.
If I were less Mac fanatic, I definately would have bought a PC by now, because it's way faster for the things I do. Apple has to catch up or significantly improve the price/performance level.
<strong>Apple should kick off Moto as soon as they can and went to IBM. The 1GHz G3 was out months before the 1GHz G4. Apple should buy AltiVec and then goodbye to Moto.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The 1GHz G3 was announced months before the 1GHz G4. AFAIK the 1GHz G3 is still not released.
I don't know how accurate Think Secret's sources are, but 1.2-1.6 GHz DDR G4s in July-September seem plausible. If the huge 600 MHz leap in CPU speeds gives you doubts, take into account that those G4s will most likely use a .13 micron fab process, faster system bus with RapidIO, faster ATA, and DDR memory, all of which will easily allow the increase in CPU speeds.
To all those who claim that Apple is always on the brink, both sides of this little semantic squable, you need to think of two things...
1) Apple has sure been going out of business for a long time now.
but,
2) Do they ever really recover? Or does market share keep slipping away ever so slowly. Even Steve's tenure, which is widely hailed as a success, has only seen macs overall market shrink or hold. This is a company that has steadily lost market share over the past 15 years, nothing that they're doing now shows any evidence of reversing that trend. Maybe Apple is just a really slow bleeder?
Well I sure hope apple's fate is not doom because I just recieved my ibook (first mac) and so far this morning at work I have set up 25 printers through smit on my aix servers via telnet, added tablespace to multiple tables on our oracle db, tested some hacmp configs, ftp'd mp3's while I was doing this and the whole time I have had people stop by my cube and say what a sweet a$$ laptop. Now everyone in my office wants one and we are and always will be and IBM shop from the group up. 2000 plus users and I am the first one with a mac to plug into this network. Plus my girlfriend likes it so much I think I am gonna give it to her and buy a new powerbook and soon an imac. I know I don't have a lot of mac experience, but I do know what I have seen so far is a really really really cool product that is fun to work on and seems to have a personality that I just didn't/don't get from pc's. Hopefully apple will be around long enough to place all my other future orders. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>To anyone with a pre-firewire Mac who won't upgrade because they don't think it'd be enough of an improvement: you'd be surprised
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know how much faster the new machines are than my old one... but the stumbling block is that the current price/performance value of the new machines just isn't comparable to what you can get in the WIntel world. I think Apple is close to redressing this balance.
I know how much faster the new machines are than my old one... but the stumbling block is that the current price/performance value of the new machines just isn't comparable to what you can get in the WIntel world. I think Apple is close to redressing this balance.</strong><hr></blockquote>I agree with you on this - I'm in the market for a new portable at the moment, and I'm acutely aware that Apple tends to go in for big upgrades; it's frustrating not to be able to buy the current latest and greatest because of what might be just around the corner for the same price...
On balance, though, I still think a Mac is the machine for me; I have a feeling that OS X is probably a very good OS for laptops, in a works-well-with-trackpads sort of way; but in fact my main reason is still that the look-and-feel of all the other OSes jangles my delicate nerves
I know how much faster the new machines are than my old one... but the stumbling block is that the current price/performance value of the new machines just isn't comparable to what you can get in the WIntel world. I think Apple is close to redressing this balance.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>For those of you who don't follow this board, JYD is constantly putting down the Mac and saying Apple is dead.
Look at some facts, he mentions the pro market. We already know that the G4 outperforms the P4 in the key areas G4's are used in the pro market (Video, Photo, Audio). ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is completely wrong!
A Pentium4 2.4 GHz is currently the fastest consumer desktop money can buy....For ALL tasks. It even outperformes the Athlon XP2100 (1733 mhz) in 3D rendering!
The Dual G4 1 Ghz, should of course be compared to a DUAL P4 or DUAL Athlon.
If you do this, you will see that the Dual Athlon is about Twice as fast as the G4 for rendering. And beats it in Photo, Video, and sound editing too.
And with the 2.2 and 2.4 Ghz boxes Pentium even beats Athlon now.
and by the way, I've always found JYD's posts entertaing and well thought, and definately not always negative and pessemistic. (think pre- MWSF 2002)
I only must say that this thread seems like a very General Discussion. And is it me, or does it just seem like JYD starts an "Apple is doomed thread" about 2 weeks after every MacWorld?
Settle down you spazzes! When I said you have no use for a $10,000 G5, I was speaking about 98% of the posters in this forum. I know there are a select few who could afford/justify such a purchase.
I was just shattering most people's delusions of owning a 64 bit workstation media gorilla for gaming, light web surfing and some email.
Comments
Absolutely. I have a dual monitor setup but I would prefer a Cinema display and a HQ plasma for video preview. Toolbars/pallets and finding room for them is the biggest problem with pro software these days.
<a href="http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/apr2002/nf2002043_6046.htm"; target="_blank">PC to Apple?</a>
Unscientific, yes but still an interesting poll.
Hell, if my Windoze friends keep standing in line to burn their band demos on MY CD burner on my iMac G3 700mhz SE because their PC keeps crashing...
They all wanna switch over now. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
If you are familliar with my posts, then you surely know that when booze or weed is involved, I give intricate, detailed reports on inside info (with a sly grin and a little wink).<hr></blockquote>
Now look at JYD's original post in this thread and draw your own conclusions.This isn't about inside information, but that hardly makes a difference IMO. Put the weed away Dawg; you're deluding yourself again. Why?
BECAUSE ADVANCEMENTS IN WINTEL TECHNOLOGY HAVE LITTLE BEARING ON APPLE ANYMORE - THE OS WAR IS OVER; WE LOST. DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE DEAD!!
Pay attention kiddies; this what happens when people don't pay attention during math class / economics. No matter what Wintel does, Apple has about 30 million users and counting. The new OS gets better and better, there are more apps everyday that we never used to have (everything from commercial stuff to shareware) and undoubtedly the hardware will get much better this year as well. Takes a genius to figure that out, wonder why JYD hasn't yet.
[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]</p>
<strong>Believe it or not, not one person in this forum has a use for a 64 bit, $10,000+ workstation. Unless you are using Maya, or realtime effects compositing, or real time streaming to 1000 seperate people, at three different compression levels.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bah, speak for yourself!
The recent 2.4GHz P4 announcement is insignificant, really... its only <10% improvement, but it is useful to remind us of the current state of affairs. Unlike JD, however, I don't think things are so bleak... Apple is going to have a rough quarter or two, but they can afford to ride it out, and after that I think things are going to pick up. I'm optimistic that a new processor will ship at MWNY, and that it will represent more than a 10% performance improvement. Don't know (or care) if it'll be called a G4 or a G5, but it will be faster. We know that these things have been in development for some time now, and they should be close to the end of the R&D cycle. There are just too many tidbits and rumours floating around to ignore.
[quote]If Apple was able to release a machine that had a G5 at 1.5 GHz, you'd have more speed then you'd know what to do with. <hr></blockquote>
Right. However they are _not_ able to.
To everyone else: who do you think actually cares? Either you've got some rumours or you haven't. If you want to complain about the current Apple line-up, send them a letter and then get upset whn you don't get a handwritten reply from Steve Jobs.
<strong>Originally posted by Fran441:
Right. However they are _not_ able to.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know exactly what to do with a 2 GHz G5. Software samplers! Virtual Instruments! Realtime Effects! It really p***** me off that some people say we couldn't do anything with a decent machine like that.
If I were less Mac fanatic, I definately would have bought a PC by now, because it's way faster for the things I do. Apple has to catch up or significantly improve the price/performance level.
Otherwise it's a joke, unless you use Photoshop
<strong>Apple should kick off Moto as soon as they can and went to IBM. The 1GHz G3 was out months before the 1GHz G4. Apple should buy AltiVec and then goodbye to Moto.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The 1GHz G3 was announced months before the 1GHz G4. AFAIK the 1GHz G3 is still not released.
<a href="http://www.thinksecret.com/features/tsblurbs2.html"; target="_blank">Think Secret Blurbs</a>
<a href="http://www.thinksecret.com/features/ddrpowermacs.html"; target="_blank">Think Secret: DDR PowerMacs</a>
I don't know how accurate Think Secret's sources are, but 1.2-1.6 GHz DDR G4s in July-September seem plausible. If the huge 600 MHz leap in CPU speeds gives you doubts, take into account that those G4s will most likely use a .13 micron fab process, faster system bus with RapidIO, faster ATA, and DDR memory, all of which will easily allow the increase in CPU speeds.
1) Apple has sure been going out of business for a long time now.
but,
2) Do they ever really recover? Or does market share keep slipping away ever so slowly. Even Steve's tenure, which is widely hailed as a success, has only seen macs overall market shrink or hold. This is a company that has steadily lost market share over the past 15 years, nothing that they're doing now shows any evidence of reversing that trend. Maybe Apple is just a really slow bleeder?
<strong>To anyone with a pre-firewire Mac who won't upgrade because they don't think it'd be enough of an improvement: you'd be surprised
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know how much faster the new machines are than my old one... but the stumbling block is that the current price/performance value of the new machines just isn't comparable to what you can get in the WIntel world. I think Apple is close to redressing this balance.
<strong>
I know how much faster the new machines are than my old one... but the stumbling block is that the current price/performance value of the new machines just isn't comparable to what you can get in the WIntel world. I think Apple is close to redressing this balance.</strong><hr></blockquote>I agree with you on this - I'm in the market for a new portable at the moment, and I'm acutely aware that Apple tends to go in for big upgrades; it's frustrating not to be able to buy the current latest and greatest because of what might be just around the corner for the same price...
On balance, though, I still think a Mac is the machine for me; I have a feeling that OS X is probably a very good OS for laptops, in a works-well-with-trackpads sort of way; but in fact my main reason is still that the look-and-feel of all the other OSes jangles my delicate nerves
<strong>
I know how much faster the new machines are than my old one... but the stumbling block is that the current price/performance value of the new machines just isn't comparable to what you can get in the WIntel world. I think Apple is close to redressing this balance.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree completely. DITTO!!!
<strong>For those of you who don't follow this board, JYD is constantly putting down the Mac and saying Apple is dead.
Look at some facts, he mentions the pro market. We already know that the G4 outperforms the P4 in the key areas G4's are used in the pro market (Video, Photo, Audio). ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is completely wrong!
A Pentium4 2.4 GHz is currently the fastest consumer desktop money can buy....For ALL tasks. It even outperformes the Athlon XP2100 (1733 mhz) in 3D rendering!
The Dual G4 1 Ghz, should of course be compared to a DUAL P4 or DUAL Athlon.
If you do this, you will see that the Dual Athlon is about Twice as fast as the G4 for rendering. And beats it in Photo, Video, and sound editing too.
And with the 2.2 and 2.4 Ghz boxes Pentium even beats Athlon now.
and by the way, I've always found JYD's posts entertaing and well thought, and definately not always negative and pessemistic. (think pre- MWSF 2002)
ap
533Mhz FSB
1066Mhz RDRAM
2.4Ghz (maybe 2.6) 0.13 Pentium 4
So starting next month, Wintel's RAM will have a higher clock speed than Apple's G4.
I was just shattering most people's delusions of owning a 64 bit workstation media gorilla for gaming, light web surfing and some email.
Where's the PPC energy efficiency advantage?