NSA leaker Edward Snowden refuses to use Apple's iPhone over spying concerns - report

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  • Reply 141 of 192
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

    The fact of the matter is that Snowden leaked massive amounts of highly classified info, and he'll eventually get what's coming to him.


     

    a medal?

  • Reply 142 of 192
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post



    This picture is all you need to know.

     

    nope. that photo was from a dinner the president held w/ IT leaders to discuss ways to bring and keep more money & jobs in the US. if you think Jobs was there colluding on how to spy on his customers you dont have your head on right.

  • Reply 143 of 192
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post

     

     

    a medal?




    You're entitled to believe in whatever you want, no matter how delusional and detached from reality that belief is.<img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

  • Reply 144 of 192
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by foggyhill View Post

     

    That he lives in Russia of all place, a place were he (and a good chunk of the population) is 100% sure being watched like a hawk, is beyond ironic.


     

    no, it's not really ironic. he was trapped there and had to make it work. he isnt there because he believes it's a freer nation than the one he left. for that we should be thankful for his sacrifice -- his entire way of life, to provide truth to us.

  • Reply 145 of 192
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    He's obviously not a phony, but you want us to dismiss him as a charlatan.



    He has no clue at all. He's been peddling his 'paid troll' theory for years now. There will always be conspiracy believing nut jobs around.

  • Reply 146 of 192
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

    Yes, the US govt or the CIA or whoever should send out a hit squad and either assasinate him or bring him back to face justice, whichever is most convenient. That's what I believe. It doesn't matter which country the rat is currently hiding in. 




    clearly somebody reads too much tom clancy.

  • Reply 147 of 192
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post



    Real heroes of conscience stand and face the music (MLK, Ghandi, Mandela, Ellsberg, et al.). They don't run and hide, particularly into the arms of our philosophical enemies. That is the honorable way to dissent in a democracy. Snowden has diminished himself and his motivations.

     

    nope. theres no sense in falling on your sword for a corrupt administration. he wouldnt even be able to put up a defense due to "state secrets" gag abuse. speaking of MLK, keep in mind the same US intelligence community tried to blackmail him into suicide. they are morally corrupt.

  • Reply 148 of 192
    magic_al wrote: »
    It's  disingenuous to portray his being in Russia as political hypocrisy. He's in Russia because the U.S. cancelled his passport after he'd landed at the Moscow airport, which made it impossible for him to choose to be anywhere else. His choices are Russia or U.S. prison. It would serve no purpose to stand trial in the U.S. because laws he's charged under won't allow him to present a defense based on why he did it. Anything he'd want to say in court to justify his actions would never be heard by the jury.

    Clearly you hate America because you accept it as a foregone conclusion that Snowden is incapable of getting a fair trial here or even be heard by a jury. You have no basis in fact to make those assertions beyond a hatred of my country. Snowden is a coward. He's holed up in Russia because he knows he violated the terms of his confidentiality oath and he's afraid to face the consequences of his actions. He blew the cover off secret NSA operations in the name of what he considered to be a good cause. I say he made America less safe from terrorists and international criminals. All because he didn't like the fact that the NSA has the capability of spying on people. Let's forget the fact that spying is their whole purpose. We created the NSA to spy. We pay them to spy. We have FISA court oversight of NSA's spying. Some people say that FISA is nothing more than a rubber stamp. But we have it and we can strengthen it if necessary. We can debate it publicly without being thrown into prison for it, or worse.

    Contrast that with the country Snowden ran away to. There's no oversight on Putin's FSB spy agency. Journalists who criticize his regime have a habit of dying young. His political opponents are imprisoned. Snowden is living in a country where democracy doesn't exist and the government has zero respect for personal privacy. If Snowden truly believes his cause is just, he should hop on a plane back to the U.S. and stand up for his principles like a man, instead of cowering under Putin's bed like a spineless wimp.
  • Reply 149 of 192
    dobbydobby Posts: 796member

    Apart from the fact there is zero evidence to support what Snowdens Lawyer is saying, if the iphone was able to be accessed then how home come the FBI came out saying that Apples new encryption helps the naughty people (you know who you are!!) hide their devious plans etc without the various security agencies able to detect them.

    We know they can snoop the airwaves and internet etc regardless if its a smartphone or not.

    Of course for those of you who think the FBI said that only to make the people they want to catch store more stuff on the iphone cos they can access it anytime easily, then I've obviously got the wrong end of the stick.

     

    Oh, how come a bunch of randome CEO's around a dinner table with Obama says it all? The only thing it says is they got another free meal and you didn't.

     

    Dobby

     

    And how ironic that Snowden is now hiding for revealing secrets in a country that is even worse at keeping their folk informed.

  • Reply 150 of 192
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,789member

    Remind me again why we should listen to a traitor.

    Actually, to a traitor's lawyer.

     

    Re: "It remains unclear how successful that program was, and Apple again denied involvement."

     

    I imagine that there are quite a few successful spyware projects out there.  For all smartphone platforms.

    But I'd hazard a guess that most of them require physical possession of the phone to install the spyware.

    (You know the drill: meet the mark at a bar, get him/her to sleep with you, install software on their phone

    while they're still asleep, ad nauseam.)

  • Reply 151 of 192

    Interesting comments and debate regarding Snowden.

     

    I guess if you believe that if the government breaks the law, it's not illegal, then you think Snowden is a traitor. Problem is, I don't think ANYONE here actually believes that. Yet so many here condemn Snowden for his actions.

     

    By the way, if you believe that it's not up the the little guy to reveal the injustices perpetrated by his employer, then you must be a "shut the eff up and do your job!" kind of person. If this is what you believe, then who exactly do you expect will "come clean and do the right thing"? The powerful employer who has already CHOSEN to break the law and hopes no one will find out? Because without the little guy, there's no one else.

     

    So Snowden revealed that the government knowingly broke its own laws and violated the freedoms so many of you claim to value so much. And you call him a rat, deserving of execution? Let's execute all the rats and see who is left to defend the freedom you value so much.

  • Reply 152 of 192
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    Interesting comments and debate regarding Snowden.

    I guess if you believe that if the government breaks the law, it's not illegal, then you think Snowden is a traitor. Problem is, I don't think ANYONE here actually believes that. Yet so many here condemn Snowden for his actions.

    By the way, if you believe that it's not up the the little guy to reveal the injustices perpetrated by his employer, then you must be a "shut the eff up and do your job!" kind of person. If this is what you believe, then who exactly do you expect will "come clean and do the right thing"? The powerful employer who has already CHOSEN to break the law and hopes no one will find out? Because without the little guy, there's no one else.

    So Snowden revealed that the government knowingly broke its own laws and violated the freedoms so many of you claim to value so much. And you call him a rat, deserving of execution? Let's execute all the rats and see who is left to defend the freedom you value so much.

    There is no logical or ethical disconnect in the negative views on Snowden's actions - as already clearly explained in this thread. That he exposed possibly illegal (or at least potentially unconstitutional) actions by Government agencies may be defensible both morally, and under whistleblower laws, if he felt that he had no other recourse (even though he actually did). That he deliberately acquired, and then released, huge quantities of unrelated classified information that jeopardized legitimate counterterrorism and other activities, and endangered the lives of US security personnel, apparently just out of spite, is not defensible in any way.
  • Reply 153 of 192
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     



    I see your point, but I don't believe that random employees entrusted by companies and the govt can take it upon themselves to steal classified info and leak it to the world.

     

    I'm not defending the CIA or the NSA or the US govt here, and there are definitely certain activities that the US engages in that is illegal. That doesn't change what Snowden did, and what he did was also certainly illegal, and he should answer for his crimes.




    have you ever sped in your car? ever? perhaps daily? do you want to go and pay for all of those crimes? if the law is really the law- get cracking.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     



    Yes, the US govt or the CIA or whoever should send out a hit squad and either assasinate him or bring him back to face justice, whichever is most convenient. That's what I believe. It doesn't matter which country the rat is currently hiding in. 


     

    if the U.S. gov't assassinates him it will be illegal- which you are complaining about. it was illegal what the NSA and CIA were doing, but that is ok, if one person shows you that your government is up to illegal activity you want them to be killed illegally.  

     

    you may not like the guy or what he did, but if you think that the U.S. gov't should not have to disclose or have their illegal deeds pointed out then you do not want to live in a 'democracy'. 

     

    it is embarrassing to read your hypocritical words being angry over illegal matters and wanting to solve it with more illegal matters. so if the american gov't is wrong first- it is ok? for 'national security' even though it has been shown that not one terrorist plot has been spoiled due to eavesdropping on american's and american allied phones (germany comes to mind). 

  • Reply 154 of 192
    I can understand his paranoia, but I wish people would be a little more specific when leveling these kinds of charges, as in not what they 'can' do, but what they did do.
  • Reply 155 of 192
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Land of the free.
  • Reply 156 of 192
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     



    I agree. I don't see this issue as liberal vs conservative at all.

     

    A country can't have low level punks deciding to leak confidential info, no matter what their supposed reasons or motivations are. He was trusted to do his job, not to betray his country.




    But it's fine when his country betrays the people.  Got it.

  • Reply 157 of 192
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    [QUOTE]Originally Posted by Apple ][


    Yes, the US govt or the CIA or whoever should send out a hit squad and either assasinate him or bring him back to face justice, whichever is most convenient. That's what I believe. It doesn't matter which country the rat is currently hiding in.

    [quote name="Mystigo" url="/t/184413/nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-refuses-to-use-apples-iphone-over-spying-concerns-report/80#post_2664373"]

    Is there something wrong with you? You don't mind the government spying on everything we say and do, and it's ok to just go kill a guy that exposed that fact? Do you work in the NSA or something? How do these ideas not eat you up?
    [/QUOTE]



    Many of us are surprised that anyone posting here could be as barbaric as, say, an average loudmouth jihadist. Actually he's worse, or his character is, because he doesn't even have a "righteous" cause he's promoting, just American or white or Jewish supremacy. He's closer to an average skinhead. So what's he doing here, spelling all his words correctly, even using the subjunctive ("If I were . . .") correctly, when you would normally expect such a knuckle-dragger to spell like a 5-year-old?

    The only way to solve the contradictions that his character presents here is to see him as putting on an act, either to bully the thread into distraction for some twisted ego satisfaction, or to trash the forum as part of some paid troll program. Notice that MacRumors doesn't have a resident troll like him. Don't know if they would just wipe his posts or not. Anyway, his anti-social rants contribute nothing to the thread and should be banned. But of course they result in page views, except from people like me and a few others. I avoid topics that I know he'll be stinking up.
  • Reply 158 of 192
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post





    Clearly you hate America because you accept it as a foregone conclusion that Snowden is incapable of getting a fair trial here or even be heard by a jury. You have no basis in fact to make those assertions beyond a hatred of my country. Snowden is a coward. He's holed up in Russia because he knows he violated the terms of his confidentiality oath and he's afraid to face the consequences of his actions. He blew the cover off secret NSA operations in the name of what he considered to be a good cause. I say he made America less safe from terrorists and international criminals. All because he didn't like the fact that the NSA has the capability of spying on people. Let's forget the fact that spying is their whole purpose. We created the NSA to spy. We pay them to spy. We have FISA court oversight of NSA's spying. Some people say that FISA is nothing more than a rubber stamp. But we have it and we can strengthen it if necessary. We can debate it publicly without being thrown into prison for it, or worse.

     

    Oh, so anyone who doesn't hate Snowden hates his country?  Doesn't matter if what the country has done is outright WRONG?  Never mind that.  Snowden would never, EVER get a fair trial here.  He'd be whisked away, psychologically abused like Manning, and eventually find himself locked up for life - and the public wouldn't be privy to any of it.  You're getting your panties in a bunch over breaking a confidentiality oath while giving our government a free pass to break the law as it sees fit.  That's rich!

     

    What country do you love so much?  The oligarchy that sends our young men and women off to die in one endless war after another so a few 1%ers can get filthy rich?  That country?  Or maybe you love the country that illegally spies on its citizens.  Funny how back in the Reagan days, we railed against the communists for doing the very same thing.  But it's perfectly okay today now that the terrorist boogeyman exists and might pop out from behind any corner!

     

    Yes, let's further relinquish our rights and privileges and excuse away the outright illegal behavior of our government.  From where I'm sitting, it's people like YOU who hate our country because you're perfectly willing to give your government a blank check to abuse its powers.

     

    Maybe you should ponder Mark Twain's famous quote: "Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

  • Reply 159 of 192
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by foggyhill View Post

     

     

    Being a whistleblower on the unconstutional bits, I'm all for it. 100%.

     

    He'd have to do jail time probably, but there's even a good chance he'd get out before he's old.

     

    But, for the rest of what was released, people, could have already known if they actually cared to inform themselves on their own government.

     

    The 90% that was constitional (the provisions for them were mostly already in the patriot act) (and still are) should be handled the usual way, through people actually caring what their government is doing and voting in large numbers to change things.

     

    The fact people are not doing that, not voting against it, must mean they tacitly agree with the patriot acts and all what it means. They want absolute security but close their eyes to what it entails.. Willful denial.

     

    People cannot stand and be shocked about what the NSA is legally doing when a lot of what they're doing could be easily surmised. There's a whole show based on pervasive surveillance (Person of Interest), which was devellopped and launched even before Snowden's releases.

     

    People like to rail against the government when they get exactly the government they voted for (or didn't vote for).

    Either they put up (Vote) or shut up. They can't have it both ways. Considering the low voter turnout, most people like to whine about the big bad government than do anything about it; the worse option possible.

     

    PS: I'm not even talking about the whole slew of things he revealed that relates to normal legal CIA and NSA operations. In this case, he deserves a whole heep of prison time.




    Interesting perspective, but I don't think for a moment that we get the government we vote for anymore.  It's absolutely impossible today to run for any serious national level office without massive amounts of money.  The only people who make it through and stand as candidates were bought long before the election.

     

    Furthermore, our government has waged a relentless fear campaign since 9/11 gave them the blank check to wipe their collective ***** with the Constitution.  Most people don't have the time to read the Patriot Act, much less truly grasp all of the legalese.  All they know is that the terrorist boogeyman is lurking out there and we better do everything we can to be SAFE!

     

    Finally, when you systematically destroy public education, choosing instead to spend lavishly on your military and spy apparatus, you further guarantee a fearful, apathetic public.  The powers that be don't want higher voter turnout.  They want less.  Preferably all the right/left-wing nut jobs who base everything on the deluge of political ads and other propaganda pieces they experience every day.  That's the battle.  They don't care about sensible dialogue in the middle.  Because sensible dialogue doesn't send them back to Washington to suck off the government tit for another few years.

     

    Today's political dialogue isn't a dialogue at all.  It's a bombardment of sound bites, junk science, and half truths from both sides, all in an effort to get you to push the button for them.  Personally, I don't believe voting matters much in practice.  In theory, however, I believe it's every citizen's duty.

  • Reply 160 of 192
    swiftswift Posts: 436member

    Always, the accusation of "comprehensive spying," which is impossible, and we must not be in perpetual surveillance, first amendment and such-- but then the "whistleblower" reports vital spying on other people as well. We should give up spying, it seems to people like Snowden. I think he's likely a well-intentioned useful fool. 

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