YES. I constantly see people on here applaud how they're iPhone 6+ is so good they don't need an iPad.
Which is why I'm not TOO stoked about iPhone sales because an %18 increase in iPhone 6 sales is stolen from iPad sales.
I thought Apple was announcing a 12" iPad to further differentiate the line but that was just a rumor.
Not too much cannabalization is going on - or at least not in a way destructive to Apple - when their NET profit margin - as well as their record-for-any-corp-ever-quarterly-profit both show a very healthy bump up (in a quarter when they've cut some Mac prices). So not to worry on that score...
...and they've always shown a willingness to let newer form factors displace some older ones over time... ...and have managed the transitions well. From Classic Macs thru iMacs, from plugged in PCs to mobile ones, and from iPods to iPhones.
As for the rumored big iPad, I think they have an eye on the new Enterprise push, e.g., the flyer they're taking with IBM who - facing (very) hard times - has real reason to work hard at associating themselves with the Apple aura and buzz and so I think will really be using their sales force to push Apple into that space.
And if that goes somewhere, and it could, I'm thinking that alone would establish enough of a market niche to make it another nice premium market-placed high-margin SKU almost on its own - Enterprise data can really use as much pixel real estate as it can get (NTM some new tricks for a larger screen that need baking into iOS) - and with that base business market primed by Big Blue, make all the additional sales to artists, photographers and other prosumers/consumers that would happen just because it exists enough to turn it into a winner (if with Mac-like sales... ...but with near Mac prices to boot, e.g., a $699 base configurable to over a grand. Apple looves high volume hits like the iPhone, but they have a fair total sales volume of items that move in fewer, but profitable and steady to rising numbers).
In any event, there are various form factors under testing inside of Apple, and I'm sure larger iPads are among 'em. Along with screens that make typing on 'em a much better experience and/or some optimized for styli, etc. and things we have little notion of.
So one scenario. Even if my name's not "well-connected KGI analyst Ming-Chi Kuo" - who's apparently jumped the shark on when, if not if, the "Hero iPad" will be released.
I'm not entirely surprised. More and more people are using their phones for what their tablets used to do. Nowadays a tablet is usually one of two things.
A family sharing device, so it really doesn't need to be upgraded that often
Something to do with enter[rise, usually a POS device (which again, don't need to be upgraded very often) or as some sort of electronic notebook, for which a brand new processor and fingerprint scanner aren't entirely necessary
21.4 Million units is absolutely remarkable. Remember that's: 21,400,000 devices manufactured, sold, and delivered in three months. I can't even fathom how someone would not find that amazing.
That essentially the same as delivering one iPad to every single man, woman, and child living in Beijing, China (3rd largest city in the world) in a three month window. It's incredible. There isn't another company in history, on this planet, in that time frame that has ever moved that level of inventory, in that quantity, at the quality standards Apple does.
Apple, and the iPad as a product, are doing amazingly well. I agree with Tim Cook, people are pathetically short-term, and I would add shallow, thinkers.
iPads are not being used less than before. iPads are everywhere and people are using the hell out of their iPads. iPads are also found everywhere in the commercial and business world. iPads have changed the entire computing landscape.
iPads are such brilliant devices that even older ones are still adequate for many tasks and meets the needs of many people, so why would they upgrade when what they have works perfectly fine? The average person does not need super power or the newest model, if they have a perfectly fine, functioning iPad that they are content with. And the average person doesn't have a money tree growing in their backyard either.
My mother still uses an iPad 2, and it works great for what she uses it for. She'll probably still be using it in a few years time from now, as long as it is still functioning.
I have the newest iPad, but my mother is probably closer to the average consumer than I am.
This just shows the tremendous value that iPads have. Somebody who paid $400-500 for their iPad years ago still has a functioning device that works ok, and let's contrast that with the sorry suckers who cheaped out and bought a $200-300 Android tablet years ago, thinking that they were being clever and thrifty. Do you think that many of those tablets are still in use today? " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" /> Hell, those things were already useless, obsolete pieces of junk on the very same day that they were purchased.
Who got the most value for their money? Which product was a better buy? Is $500 really more than $300, if the $500 product lasts 5 times as long as the inferior product? Who said that Apple products are expensive again?
It's quite obvious that the life cycle of an iPad for the average consumer is longer than what some people might have previously thought. It's all good though, because when people do eventually upgrade, then they'll be replacing it with another iPad, which again will last them for quite a while. Buying an iPad is not an annual purchase for the overwhelming majority of consumers.
Like I said, it's all good, because iPads are here to stay.
Apple needs to do something with it. They really haven't significantly improved the functionality of the iPad since iWork/iLife. Yes, there are lots of amazing apps, but Joe and Jane Consumer doesn't see that. They need a reason to buy it.
I think focusing on making the iPad as thin and light as they have while making graphics 85 times faster and keeping battery life above 10 hours is serious innovation when it comes to the platform. Just because sales are down year over year doesn't necessarily mean Apple's doing anything wrong with the platform. I think a strong future focus for iPad should be speaker loudness or audio quality innovation; an area that requires some kind of miracle given the physical situation there.
Everyone knows it's iPhone canabalising iPad which is great for Apple, but I'd like to see a future focus on Apple simplifying the iPad family lineup by killing more older models and bringing down the cost of the top models. They should kill both the mini and mini 2 and sell the mini 3 starting at $299 and do the same for the Air lineup starting Air 2 at $399.
Always interesting to see analysts and naysayers scrambling to dredge any "bad" news from what is without doubt one of the most amazing financial performances we've ever seen. The iPad is doing incredibly well and has forever altered the landscape of the PC market. In addition to the strong sales volume of iPad alone you have to consider that a certain percentage of iPad sales are still eating what would have been PC sales. The PC market in general is still in decline. PCs are not going away, they're simply reaching a new baseline to reflect the fact that some of the jobs formerly done by PCs are now being done by iPads. Likewise, iPads are finding their new baseline based on the refresh cycles of an entirely new product category that didn't exist for all intents and purposes prior to the iPad release. The year over year reduction in sales simply reflects where the iPad product line is on its technology adoption life cycle (late majority phase?) coupled with the longer refresh cycle of the product itself. Tim Cook's remarks on the iPad infer that Apple sees iPad in the late majority adoption phase which is why some product line refreshes are in the pipeline. What cannot be overlooked for products in this phase of their lifecycle is the typically excellent margins that are experienced due to economy of scale, manufacturing/sales/distribution/process optimization, cost containment, etc. Profitability on iPad is probably pretty darn good to say the least.
For Apple it's all about the mix and compounding the value of their entire products and services ecosystem. This is true for the company and its investors but equally true for Apple customers. They've not only nailed it but they've also scaled it to amazing proportions.
I bought a 64GB iPad 3 (the first one with the retina display) shortly after it came out. I simply don't see enough of a reason to ditch it for a newer model just yet (unlike the fairly quick upgrade from the original iPad 1 to the '3, which did offer noticeable benefits).
Unlike the iPhone, which is certainly worthwhile upgrading every second generation (and, from the 5S to the 6, in just one generation also), the iPad doesn't seem to be improving that exponentially.
I can live with my current iPad a while longer yet - at least as long as the Simpsons Tapped Out game works on it!
No surprise. The iPhone 6 Plus will continue to steal sales from iPad. Focus on the next generation Apple TV.
No. No way. The 6+ is close enough in size to the IPad mini, where some people may use it as an iPad Mini replacement. But it offers no real advantages over an iPad, and is far from able to compete with older iPad/iPad Air in size and resolution, and the Air 2 gives a big boost in CPU and GPU. And that's even before you bring up price. You could get anywhere from 2-4 iPads/iPad mini's for the price of one iPhone 6+. Only a fraction of the customers out there could afford or be willing to get one device instead of two or three devices, when it only offers a neglible advantage.
Exactly. A customer who uses his ipad2 as people used to use a netbook, may still have iOS 6 running on it, and experiences it as just as fast and slick as always.
iPads have been popular with customers that are known for not upgrading to the latest model just because it's the latest model.
There are millions of ipads and ipad mini's that are used as the family's portable video player, as something for the kids to play on, or the device that grandma emails on. They don't upgrade every year or every second year. But they'll upgrafe eventually. And until then, they'll keep using iTunes store and the AppStore, and grow Apples market share and a mindshare with developers that the competition doesn't have.
Amazon Fire HDs are eating Apples lunch? Mayday is a game changer-plus so less expensive for what most use tablets for.
Nah, doubt it. The Kindle is almost exclusively a U.S. phenomenon. Regardless, they're most likely already tied to the Amazon ecosystem and would be hard to win over. Customers that are this price sensitive aren't really worth it in the long run either, unless you're Amazon.
If Americans had to pay full retail for their iPhones, they wouldn't be updating every 2 years either.
Why not? I pay full retail and usually update every year. If you save 25$ a month you got an upgrade every two years.
The way I can afford it is through the high resale value of Apple products. I keep my phone in a case and can sell it next year for 3/4 of what a new phone costs.
60% of Apple's sales this quarter were outside of the Americas. Are all those people are paying full retail price up front for their phones?
I live in Europe, and in many cases yes. Though it also depends on what country we're talking about.
In many countries they have contracts like in the US, but with the contract capped at 12 months or 6 months. The carrier still subsidizes the phone though, by anywhere from 33-100%.
You also see the carrier partnering with a bank or a credit union to offer a new phone for 0% or X% down, and the rest to be paid off over 1-3 years.
Dont forget that the plans are a little cheaper here too, which leaves a bigger budget for a new phone.
(Personally I pay 20$ for 10 hours outgoing calls, 10gb LTE data and unlimited messages and incoming calls.)
I bought a 64GB iPad 3 (the first one with the retina display) shortly after it came out. I simply don't see enough of a reason to ditch it for a newer model just yet (unlike the fairly quick upgrade from the original iPad 1 to the '3, which did offer noticeable benefits).
Unlike the iPhone, which is certainly worthwhile upgrading every second generation (and, from the 5S to the 6, in just one generation also), the iPad doesn't seem to be improving that exponentially.
I can live with my current iPad a while longer yet - at least as long as the Simpsons Tapped Out game works on it!
The sheer size and weight diff from the iPad 3 to the Air 2 is quite something. Perhaps you should consider upgrade while the iPad 3 still has some resell value left in its chassis?
Upgrade while the going's good. I think the Air 2 is going to be as good as it gets for iPad for a while yet on the consumer front. If iPad Pro ships I see that aimed at a slightly different user: enterprise, design and artisan.
YES. I constantly see people on here applaud how they're iPhone 6+ is so good they don't need an iPad.
Which is why I'm not TOO stoked about iPhone sales because an %18 increase in iPhone 6 sales is stolen from iPad sales.
I thought Apple was announcing a 12" iPad to further differentiate the line but that was just a rumor.
Here's what I posted on another article earlier:
Cook says he's surprised at the [applepay]growth rate.
This is the perfect time to have an NFC POS focused iPad.
I see iPad sales are down(thanks iPhone 6+) and I think having a stronger focus on business will open up a whole market opportunity for them. I mean a HUGE untapped market, like taking over POS terminals and payment kiosks, etc.
Even taking business further by adding features to replace drive thru interfaces, plane monitors, inventory PDAs, hospital monitors etc.
***** DIFFERENTIATE APPLE!!
Apple probably makes just as much or more profit on an iPhone 6+ than an iPad.
Apple needs to do something with it. They really haven't significantly improved the functionality of the iPad since iWork/iLife. Yes, there are lots of amazing apps, but Joe and Jane Consumer doesn't see that. They need a reason to buy it.
IPad Air 2 is vastly improved over most of the iPAds that exist today. I suspect that if most current owners were to try an Air 2 out they would desire it strongly. Your problem is looking at the sales decline as a negative, it really isn't when you consider the mad rush of adoption first seen with an iPad. IPad will find a natural sales rate that mixes well with customer needs.
The reason to buy shouldn't be any different than those for a laptop or a desktop Mac. You buy or upgrade when it is needed, not when new stuff comes out. You seem to think sales would be driven by a "better" IPad yet IPad 2 is a tremendous upgrade over the old models. That doesn't get people to buy though.
Tim said there could be cannibalization coming from the Mac. Either Apple doesn't care or they've got stuff in the pipeline to make iPad more attractive. The only reason I bought the Air 2 is because of 2GB RAM which should have been in the first Air.
IPad Air 2 is already pretty attractive but that doesn't mean people will drop everything to buy one. When 50 to 75 percent of IPad buyers are new customers that pretty clearly indicates that there isn't a strong need to upgrade yet.
Like a couple of others have commented on here, current owners are still enjoying well working amazing iPads that we have owned for several years. Currently I still use my old iPad 2 not the air but the original iPad 2! It works very well, although ios8 slowed it considerbly which upset me. It is still the first thing I pick up in the morning and the last to be put down at night! My iMac. Or iPhone 6 will not take its place. And yes I'm considering buying a New one but just coasting along enjoying this one a little longer, and one day I WILL jump on a new iPad!! As the rest of the iPad owners will do I'm sure,, regardless of what the idiot talking heads have to say about the doom and gloom of the iPad and apple!!
People that say I have iPad 1 and still work are missing out big time. iPad Air 2 is a HUGE improvement to iPad 1,2,3,4. I have own them all. Huge upgrade.
Not just in the outside but we're it matter on the inside. People do not realized how much more they will use it if they had the speed of the iPad Air 2. Every person I ask after I upgrade tells me the same. The increase on processing speed alone makes it worth the upgrade.
Comments
60% of Apple's sales this quarter were outside of the Americas. Are all those people are paying full retail price up front for their phones?
YES. I constantly see people on here applaud how they're iPhone 6+ is so good they don't need an iPad.
Which is why I'm not TOO stoked about iPhone sales because an %18 increase in iPhone 6 sales is stolen from iPad sales.
Not too much cannabalization is going on - or at least not in a way destructive to Apple - when their NET profit margin - as well as their record-for-any-corp-ever-quarterly-profit both show a very healthy bump up (in a quarter when they've cut some Mac prices). So not to worry on that score...
...and they've always shown a willingness to let newer form factors displace some older ones over time... ...and have managed the transitions well. From Classic Macs thru iMacs, from plugged in PCs to mobile ones, and from iPods to iPhones.
As for the rumored big iPad, I think they have an eye on the new Enterprise push, e.g., the flyer they're taking with IBM who - facing (very) hard times - has real reason to work hard at associating themselves with the Apple aura and buzz and so I think will really be using their sales force to push Apple into that space.
And if that goes somewhere, and it could, I'm thinking that alone would establish enough of a market niche to make it another nice premium market-placed high-margin SKU almost on its own - Enterprise data can really use as much pixel real estate as it can get (NTM some new tricks for a larger screen that need baking into iOS) - and with that base business market primed by Big Blue, make all the additional sales to artists, photographers and other prosumers/consumers that would happen just because it exists enough to turn it into a winner (if with Mac-like sales... ...but with near Mac prices to boot, e.g., a $699 base configurable to over a grand. Apple looves high volume hits like the iPhone, but they have a fair total sales volume of items that move in fewer, but profitable and steady to rising numbers).
In any event, there are various form factors under testing inside of Apple, and I'm sure larger iPads are among 'em. Along with screens that make typing on 'em a much better experience and/or some optimized for styli, etc. and things we have little notion of.
So one scenario. Even if my name's not "well-connected KGI analyst Ming-Chi Kuo" - who's apparently jumped the shark on when, if not if, the "Hero iPad" will be released.
... and offer it in brown.
I don't know why everyone hated the brown. I thought it was rather professional looking and nostalgic.
But that's just my opinion...
I'm not entirely surprised. More and more people are using their phones for what their tablets used to do. Nowadays a tablet is usually one of two things.
That essentially the same as delivering one iPad to every single man, woman, and child living in Beijing, China (3rd largest city in the world) in a three month window. It's incredible. There isn't another company in history, on this planet, in that time frame that has ever moved that level of inventory, in that quantity, at the quality standards Apple does.
Apple, and the iPad as a product, are doing amazingly well. I agree with Tim Cook, people are pathetically short-term, and I would add shallow, thinkers.
Nothing compares to an iPad for viewing family photos and watching porn.
iPads are not being used less than before. iPads are everywhere and people are using the hell out of their iPads. iPads are also found everywhere in the commercial and business world. iPads have changed the entire computing landscape.
iPads are such brilliant devices that even older ones are still adequate for many tasks and meets the needs of many people, so why would they upgrade when what they have works perfectly fine? The average person does not need super power or the newest model, if they have a perfectly fine, functioning iPad that they are content with. And the average person doesn't have a money tree growing in their backyard either.
My mother still uses an iPad 2, and it works great for what she uses it for. She'll probably still be using it in a few years time from now, as long as it is still functioning.
I have the newest iPad, but my mother is probably closer to the average consumer than I am.
This just shows the tremendous value that iPads have. Somebody who paid $400-500 for their iPad years ago still has a functioning device that works ok, and let's contrast that with the sorry suckers who cheaped out and bought a $200-300 Android tablet years ago, thinking that they were being clever and thrifty. Do you think that many of those tablets are still in use today?
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" /> Hell, those things were already useless, obsolete pieces of junk on the very same day that they were purchased.
Who got the most value for their money? Which product was a better buy? Is $500 really more than $300, if the $500 product lasts 5 times as long as the inferior product? Who said that Apple products are expensive again?
It's quite obvious that the life cycle of an iPad for the average consumer is longer than what some people might have previously thought. It's all good though, because when people do eventually upgrade, then they'll be replacing it with another iPad, which again will last them for quite a while. Buying an iPad is not an annual purchase for the overwhelming majority of consumers.
Like I said, it's all good, because iPads are here to stay.
I think focusing on making the iPad as thin and light as they have while making graphics 85 times faster and keeping battery life above 10 hours is serious innovation when it comes to the platform. Just because sales are down year over year doesn't necessarily mean Apple's doing anything wrong with the platform. I think a strong future focus for iPad should be speaker loudness or audio quality innovation; an area that requires some kind of miracle given the physical situation there.
Everyone knows it's iPhone canabalising iPad which is great for Apple, but I'd like to see a future focus on Apple simplifying the iPad family lineup by killing more older models and bringing down the cost of the top models. They should kill both the mini and mini 2 and sell the mini 3 starting at $299 and do the same for the Air lineup starting Air 2 at $399.
Always interesting to see analysts and naysayers scrambling to dredge any "bad" news from what is without doubt one of the most amazing financial performances we've ever seen. The iPad is doing incredibly well and has forever altered the landscape of the PC market. In addition to the strong sales volume of iPad alone you have to consider that a certain percentage of iPad sales are still eating what would have been PC sales. The PC market in general is still in decline. PCs are not going away, they're simply reaching a new baseline to reflect the fact that some of the jobs formerly done by PCs are now being done by iPads. Likewise, iPads are finding their new baseline based on the refresh cycles of an entirely new product category that didn't exist for all intents and purposes prior to the iPad release. The year over year reduction in sales simply reflects where the iPad product line is on its technology adoption life cycle (late majority phase?) coupled with the longer refresh cycle of the product itself. Tim Cook's remarks on the iPad infer that Apple sees iPad in the late majority adoption phase which is why some product line refreshes are in the pipeline. What cannot be overlooked for products in this phase of their lifecycle is the typically excellent margins that are experienced due to economy of scale, manufacturing/sales/distribution/process optimization, cost containment, etc. Profitability on iPad is probably pretty darn good to say the least.
For Apple it's all about the mix and compounding the value of their entire products and services ecosystem. This is true for the company and its investors but equally true for Apple customers. They've not only nailed it but they've also scaled it to amazing proportions.
I bought a 64GB iPad 3 (the first one with the retina display) shortly after it came out. I simply don't see enough of a reason to ditch it for a newer model just yet (unlike the fairly quick upgrade from the original iPad 1 to the '3, which did offer noticeable benefits).
Unlike the iPhone, which is certainly worthwhile upgrading every second generation (and, from the 5S to the 6, in just one generation also), the iPad doesn't seem to be improving that exponentially.
I can live with my current iPad a while longer yet - at least as long as the Simpsons Tapped Out game works on it!
No. No way. The 6+ is close enough in size to the IPad mini, where some people may use it as an iPad Mini replacement. But it offers no real advantages over an iPad, and is far from able to compete with older iPad/iPad Air in size and resolution, and the Air 2 gives a big boost in CPU and GPU. And that's even before you bring up price. You could get anywhere from 2-4 iPads/iPad mini's for the price of one iPhone 6+. Only a fraction of the customers out there could afford or be willing to get one device instead of two or three devices, when it only offers a neglible advantage.
Exactly. A customer who uses his ipad2 as people used to use a netbook, may still have iOS 6 running on it, and experiences it as just as fast and slick as always.
iPads have been popular with customers that are known for not upgrading to the latest model just because it's the latest model.
There are millions of ipads and ipad mini's that are used as the family's portable video player, as something for the kids to play on, or the device that grandma emails on. They don't upgrade every year or every second year. But they'll upgrafe eventually. And until then, they'll keep using iTunes store and the AppStore, and grow Apples market share and a mindshare with developers that the competition doesn't have.
Nah, doubt it. The Kindle is almost exclusively a U.S. phenomenon. Regardless, they're most likely already tied to the Amazon ecosystem and would be hard to win over. Customers that are this price sensitive aren't really worth it in the long run either, unless you're Amazon.
Why not? I pay full retail and usually update every year. If you save 25$ a month you got an upgrade every two years.
The way I can afford it is through the high resale value of Apple products. I keep my phone in a case and can sell it next year for 3/4 of what a new phone costs.
I live in Europe, and in many cases yes. Though it also depends on what country we're talking about.
In many countries they have contracts like in the US, but with the contract capped at 12 months or 6 months. The carrier still subsidizes the phone though, by anywhere from 33-100%.
You also see the carrier partnering with a bank or a credit union to offer a new phone for 0% or X% down, and the rest to be paid off over 1-3 years.
Dont forget that the plans are a little cheaper here too, which leaves a bigger budget for a new phone.
(Personally I pay 20$ for 10 hours outgoing calls, 10gb LTE data and unlimited messages and incoming calls.)
The sheer size and weight diff from the iPad 3 to the Air 2 is quite something. Perhaps you should consider upgrade while the iPad 3 still has some resell value left in its chassis?
Upgrade while the going's good. I think the Air 2 is going to be as good as it gets for iPad for a while yet on the consumer front. If iPad Pro ships I see that aimed at a slightly different user: enterprise, design and artisan.
Apple probably makes just as much or more profit on an iPhone 6+ than an iPad.
http://www.perezonomics.com/1/post/2015/01/a-larger-ipad-is-long-overdue.html
IPad Air 2 is vastly improved over most of the iPAds that exist today. I suspect that if most current owners were to try an Air 2 out they would desire it strongly. Your problem is looking at the sales decline as a negative, it really isn't when you consider the mad rush of adoption first seen with an iPad. IPad will find a natural sales rate that mixes well with customer needs.
The reason to buy shouldn't be any different than those for a laptop or a desktop Mac. You buy or upgrade when it is needed, not when new stuff comes out. You seem to think sales would be driven by a "better" IPad yet IPad 2 is a tremendous upgrade over the old models. That doesn't get people to buy though.
IPad Air 2 is already pretty attractive but that doesn't mean people will drop everything to buy one. When 50 to 75 percent of IPad buyers are new customers that pretty clearly indicates that there isn't a strong need to upgrade yet.
Not just in the outside but we're it matter on the inside. People do not realized how much more they will use it if they had the speed of the iPad Air 2. Every person I ask after I upgrade tells me the same. The increase on processing speed alone makes it worth the upgrade.