Apple's stylus receiver concept would improve the precision of digital pen-based input

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 55
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melgross View Post



    It's interesting that you would say that, after saying human Apple developed stylus would be a good thing.



    I believe that if a stylus was included, and I"m not saying that Apple ahould do that because of cost considerations, people would use it. This is one reason we don't see great support for the more esoteric designs now that do have pressure sensitivity, fine points and other features. Why support something that almost no one has?



    This is the chicken and egg problem.

    I don't actually care if Apple brings out a stylus or not but I'd love to see a technology included in the iPad design that would allow for 3rd parties to create styluses that will work as intended across all apps. I have no interest in promoting the use of any particular input device but I'd like for the option to be there should I so choose. As I have stated before I would love to plonk my iPad in some kind of a stand on my desk and be able to use a wireless keyboard and mouse to operate it. It would make my iPad infinitely more useable and efficient for certain kinds of jobs. 

     

    But yes, I understand that Apple will not include features that will cost a lot to implement and which few users will ever use.

  • Reply 22 of 55
    Looking forward to the 18kt gold version :)
  • Reply 23 of 55
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melgross View Post



    No pressure sensitivity. That takes electronics in the stylus and circuits in the device. But the point is about 3/32" in diameter. It's a matter of getting the magnet to be strong enough, and to have the magnetic field in the right orientation. The magnet itself needs to be big enough to have enough of a field, but the point can be small.



    Of course, now you're dealing with a strong magnet. I suppose the rest of the magnet could be shielded with a magnetic field around it, but that was too much to work on for me to bother.

    Did you find your stylus looking like a paperclip porcupine :)

  • Reply 24 of 55
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JBDragon View Post



    A pen has it's uses, but should never be the main input on a mobile device with a touch screen...

    Who says it would be main? 

    That's why the 'neener neener' crap about Jobs' old comment about stylus's is such nonsense. He was talking about primary method of input. Of course a stylus is more appropriate for certain tasks.

    Duh.

  • Reply 25 of 55
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    gqb wrote: »
    Who says it would be main? 
    That's why the 'neener neener' crap about Jobs' old comment about stylus's is such nonsense. He was talking about primary method of input. Of course a stylus is more appropriate for certain tasks.
    Duh.

    If a stylus was appropriate for certain tasks why wasn't one available from the beginning?
  • Reply 26 of 55
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post



    If Apple could make a pen better than Wacom I'd be all over that.



    As a mere accessory, sure. Let's just hope it's not "highly recommended for optimal usage of the iPad"...

  • Reply 27 of 55
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,379moderator
    If Apple could make a pen better than Wacom I'd be all over that.

    They wouldn't need to make a pen at all if they improved the sensor to adjust for pen input. It would need to offer palm rejection too. It would be like the game controller setup where they don't make the controllers themselves, they just have a spec that 3rd parties work to under the MFi program:

    https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/

    This can lead to higher costs as they sometimes require components to be sourced from their own approved suppliers but a pen wouldn't have many active parts, maybe none depending on how the sensor works. They would be best to avoid fixed nibs with small surface area to avoid the possibility of damaging the glass but a spring nib with a sensor for pressure and proximity that communicates to the iPad very quickly along with an updated display sensor would be enough. They could perhaps even manage to power the pen wirelessly to avoid it needing to be charged separately.

    The big thing to deal with is lag. Even with the active digitizers, you can still see the lines lagging behind the pen:


    [VIDEO]


    A real pen never does that. The iPad one there looked like it performed ok but it can be improved. Rather than showcase fingerpaintings, they can persuade higher profile artists currently using Wacoms to draw using the iPad instead:

    http://gallery.wacom.com/gallery/13925565/Personal-Work
    http://www.ioandumitrescu.com
    http://conceptartworld.com/?p=6063

    Wacoms go up to 27" though and they're not going to make a 27" iPad so it won't work for everyone but fine as a mobile drawing tablet.

    http://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-displays/cintiq-27-qhd-touch
  • Reply 28 of 55
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    Actually, Apple got the mouse right in 1984 with the release of the Mac.

    Really- was it left click/ right click then as it's now?
  • Reply 29 of 55
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
  • Reply 30 of 55
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    melgross wrote: »
    Why are you always so negative? Most of Apple's mice were just fine. The only odd one was the round one for the first iMacs. Why don't you concentrate on the vast majority of Apple's products that do work very well instead?

    Well I suppose everything evolves. Eventually.
  • Reply 31 of 55
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    They wouldn't need to make a pen at all if they improved the sensor to adjust for pen input. It would need to offer palm rejection too. It would be like the game controller setup where they don't make the controllers themselves, they just have a spec that 3rd parties work to under the MFi program:



    https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/



    This can lead to higher costs as they sometimes require components to be sourced from their own approved suppliers but a pen wouldn't have many active parts, maybe none depending on how the sensor works. They would be best to avoid fixed nibs with small surface area to avoid the possibility of damaging the glass but a spring nib with a sensor for pressure and proximity that communicates to the iPad very quickly along with an updated display sensor would be enough. They could perhaps even manage to power the pen wirelessly to avoid it needing to be charged separately.



    The big thing to deal with is lag. Even with the active digitizers, you can still see the lines lagging behind the pen:









    A real pen never does that. The iPad one there looked like it performed ok but it can be improved. Rather than showcase fingerpaintings, they can persuade higher profile artists currently using Wacoms to draw using the iPad instead:



    http://gallery.wacom.com/gallery/13925565/Personal-Work

    http://www.ioandumitrescu.com

    http://conceptartworld.com/?p=6063



    Wacoms go up to 27" though and they're not going to make a 27" iPad so it won't work for everyone but fine as a mobile drawing tablet.



    http://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-displays/cintiq-27-qhd-touch



    The Cintique Tablets are great and the Windows 8 one is has the advantage that is a stand alone device.

     

    But the video is old because the iPad stylus is las generation and the iPad is pre-air. Apparently this combo worked quite well but the Air and Air 2 and the 2nd ten stylus is a problematic combo.

  • Reply 32 of 55
    How does this differ from a Wacon digitizer and stylus? Don't they also have touchscreen displays that will also respond to capacitance touch at the same time, like the Galaxy Note?
  • Reply 33 of 55
    melgross wrote: »
    No pressure sensitivity. That takes electronics in the stylus and circuits in the device.

    ?Watch can detect pressure sensitivity via the display. But we don't yet know how it works, and I have to think it's probably not scalable to the same kind precision as a stylus on a large display.
  • Reply 34 of 55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post



    How does this differ from a Wacon digitizer and stylus? Don't they also have touchscreen displays that will also respond to capacitance touch at the same time, like the Galaxy Note?



    Do they? I'm aware of their high-end Cintiq line (very expensive) which does not have multi-touch, to my knowledge.

  • Reply 35 of 55
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member

    Do they? I'm aware of their high-end Cintiq line (very expensive) which does not have multi-touch, to my knowledge.

    Yes, they do.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6893/samsung-galaxy-note-80-review/4
  • Reply 36 of 55
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post

     
    Most of Apple's mice were just fine. 


    I'd have to disagree with that. They were all terrible in my opinion, especially the current version.

     

    It is getting hard to find good mice at the computer store these days. I still prefer a classic USB wired Logitech 3 button laser with indexed scroll wheel.

  • Reply 37 of 55

    If iOS starts supporting a stylus officially, Apple should bring back its Newton handwriting recognition technology as an alternative to covering a large portion of the screen with a keyboard. As the few people who were still using Newton in 1998 will never stop telling anyone who'll listen, it was finally working really well just before Jobs killed it.

  • Reply 38 of 55
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    paxman wrote: »
    I don't actually care if Apple brings out a stylus or not but I'd love to see a technology included in the iPad design that would allow for 3rd parties to create styluses that will work as intended across all apps. I have no interest in promoting the use of any particular input device but I'd like for the option to be there should I so choose. As I have stated before I would love to plonk my iPad in some kind of a stand on my desk and be able to use a wireless keyboard and mouse to operate it. It would make my iPad infinitely more useable and efficient for certain kinds of jobs. 

    But yes, I understand that Apple will not include features that will cost a lot to implement and which few users will ever use.

    We can use a wireless keyboard. I don't know if it's impossible to implement a mouse, or just whether no one has bothered.

    I have a virtual keyboard for my iPad that has all the keys of Apple's keyboard. I've been trying it out. But the keys are a bit smaller, and are much closer together, so I make too many errors. And for some reason, it can't do corrections using shortcuts, it apparently even doesn't use the corrections Apple uses for spelling or proper names, so every error is an error. For example, if I type I, we know that it will be capitalized. But with this keyboard, if you don't press the apostrophe key, it doesn't happen. So, for now at least, I've stopped using it. I make enough typing errors as it is.

    Ohh, just now saw a bad spelling error. Also fixed a sentence.
  • Reply 39 of 55
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    mstone wrote: »
    I'd have to disagree with that. They were all terrible in my opinion, especially the current version.

    It is getting hard to find good mice at the computer store these days. I still prefer a classic USB wired Logitech 3 button laser with indexed scroll wheel.

    I don't agree. I found most of them to be fine. But then, I usually prefer trackballs from Logitech where you use your thumb for the ball.
  • Reply 40 of 55
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,573member
    paxman wrote: »
    Did you find your stylus looking like a paperclip porcupine :)

    Well, it could have been less attractive.
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