App Store reviewers rejecting games for depicting guns or violence in screenshots - report

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  • Reply 21 of 43
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 1,756member
    when did this country become full of such overprotective wimps!?

    1968 or so.

    Maybe it started then, but the transition wasn't complete. I was a fan of Curious George books as a tyke in the 70s. I was horrified to see that by the 90s, the illustrations in the original had been altered to remove the Man With the Yellow Hat's hunting rifle from every page where it had been. Dude was in Africa for a hunting safari, but somehow just the gun just being present--never aimed--apparently became intolerable...
  • Reply 22 of 43
    xixoxixo Posts: 422member
    "Rooster Teeth vs. Zombiens"? More like "angry hipster vs ..,?"

    1968 or so.

    Reagan did it. 1981.

    Boy, 7, suspended for throwing imaginary grenade

    ...his imaginary play is subject to discipline at Mary Blair Elementary, which utilizes a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to violence and weapons — whether they’re “real or play.”

    The school enforces a list of “ABSOLUTES,” an agenda of rules that cannot be broken, designed to “make Mary Blair a safe environment.”

    The first two items on the list are: “No Weapons (real or play), illegal drugs (including tobacco) or alcohol” and “No Physical Abuse or Fights — real or ‘play fighting,’" which pertains to Evans’ imaginary grenade.


    Also, no imagination allowed.
  • Reply 23 of 43
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

     



    Who in their right mind would bring a gun to school  even if is was unloaded.What year was this may i ask?




    Kids on the school rifle team, for one. Back in the '60s when I was in junior high and high school kids took their guns back and forth on the school bus.

     

    There are still schools that have rifle teams. I don't know how they transport their weapons nowadays.

  • Reply 24 of 43

    Honestly, Apple needs to take a look at some of the ads. "Boom Beach" is getting to be really obnoxious with its cartoons of people overjoyed at the opportunity to take down the enemy with cannons.

  • Reply 25 of 43
    cjcampbell wrote: »

    Kids on the school rifle team, for one. Back in the '60s when I was in junior high and high school kids took their guns back and forth on the school bus.

    There are still schools that have rifle teams. I don't know how they transport their weapons nowadays.

    Yep. I also remember high school kids in ROTC or marching teams with rifles (I think the marching rifles were nonfunctional, to be truthful).
  • Reply 26 of 43
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,709member
    I think Apple's just following Hollywood's lead. I don't think the content creators can show guns in the posters and such.

    I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it is what it is.
  • Reply 27 of 43
    nhtnht Posts: 4,494member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post



    Yep. I also remember high school kids in ROTC or marching teams with rifles (I think the marching rifles were nonfunctional, to be truthful).

     

    They are non-functional and they are often not allowed in middle and elementary schools even though approved at the HS level as too weapon like.

  • Reply 28 of 43
    Originally Posted by xixo View Post


     

    Reagan suspended some kid at some school?

  • Reply 29 of 43
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member
    No games on Apple TV so not my concern.
  • Reply 30 of 43
    Very good news, good on you Apple :)
  • Reply 31 of 43
    Originally Posted by gregq View Post

    Very good news, good on you Apple image



    Your reasoning is what, exactly?

  • Reply 32 of 43
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     



    Your reasoning is what, exactly?


    I personally believe that there's a connection between violent video games, violence in movies and out-of-the-ordinary violent events in real life (think Columbine, etc). I believe Apple is being socially responsible by limiting aggressive publicity for these games. I'm personally fed up with seeing an actor with a gun in his/her hands, and as a Dad, I don't care for my kids to be browsing the app store and being exposed to violent images. 

  • Reply 33 of 43
    arlorarlor Posts: 502member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gregq View Post

     

    I personally believe that there's a connection between violent video games, violence in movies and out-of-the-ordinary violent events in real life (think Columbine, etc). I believe Apple is being socially responsible by limiting aggressive publicity for these games. I'm personally fed up with seeing an actor with a gun in his/her hands, and as a Dad, I don't care for my kids to be browsing the app store and being exposed to violent images. 


     

    Al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan were full of Call of Duty and Medal of Honor games, right? 

  • Reply 34 of 43
    Originally Posted by gregq View Post

    I personally believe that theres a connection between violent video games, violence in movies and out-of-the-ordinary violent events in real life.



    There isn’t, though. At all.

  • Reply 35 of 43
    gregq wrote: »
    I personally believe that there's a connection between violent video games, violence in movies and out-of-the-ordinary violent events in real life.

    So far there is no evidence to support that as being the case, but it's also very hard to disprove a negative so there is also no evidence to say, without a doubt, that violence in video games and movies cause people to be violent. Perhaps this could be your life's work.
  • Reply 36 of 43
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     
    Originally Posted by gregq View Post

    I personally believe that theres a connection between violent video games, violence in movies and out-of-the-ordinary violent events in real life.



    There isn’t, though. At all.


     

     

    Sure there is.

     

    School shootings involve children shooting other children using guns. Violent video games involve lots of guns and shooting other people for fun. Children play violent video games. 

     

    Ergo, there is a connection between violence in real life involving guns and violent video games. Children are not good at separating real life from fantasy.

  • Reply 37 of 43
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,228moderator
    gregq wrote: »
    I personally believe that there's a connection between violent video games, violence in movies and out-of-the-ordinary violent events in real life (think Columbine, etc). I believe Apple is being socially responsible by limiting aggressive publicity for these games. I'm personally fed up with seeing an actor with a gun in his/her hands, and as a Dad, I don't care for my kids to be browsing the app store and being exposed to violent images.

    http://petapixel.com/2013/03/18/shopped-stills-from-action-movies-with-guns-replaced-with-thumbs-ups/

    People who believe there's a connection between gun violence and games normally don't play games. Feminists who don't play games also think that games objectify women. The conclusions are already made and picking a game up for 5 minutes and seeing a character with a gun or a women in a dress will immediately lead these people to justify their conclusions.

    What gets confused is the difference between fantasy and real-world environments. Someone can enjoy firing a gun in a game or watching someone shooting a gun in a movie but be completely against using a real gun. This applies to any weapon or even hand-to-hand combat. People who handle real guns sometimes even point to gun violence in games as being a root cause of the problem rather than gun ownership itself.

    The same applies to literature. A book can reference theft, adultery, murder, even more horrific violence than could be portrayed in film or games. A DIY store recently put out a warning to staff about people buying bondage gear as a result of the 50 Shades of Grey book/movie and to potentially question customers:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11400246/BandQ-sends-Fifty-Shades-of-Grey-memo-warning-staff-to-expect-soar-in-demand-for-cable-ties-and-rope.html

    All of these forms of media can certainly influence behaviour in the sense that people can be driven to replicate what they portray. If people are devoted enough to religious texts then they can be persuaded to kill based on the words written in them.

    There have been a few cases where games have been linked to the crimes committed:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/19/anders-breivik-call-of-duty
    "Anders Behring Breivik has described how he "trained" for the attacks he carried out in Norway last summer using the computer game Call of Duty: Modern Warfare. The 33-year-old said he practised his shot using a "holographic aiming device" on the war simulation game, which he said is used by armies around the world for training."You develop target acquisition," he said. He used a similar device during the shooting attacks that left 69 dead at a political youth camp on the island of Utøya on 22 July.

    http://kotaku.com/call-of-duty-blamed-as-boy-admits-killing-mom-with-birt-491086348
    "An Iowa boy says he killed and attempted to rape his mother after she took away Call of Duty. He shot his mother 20 times. His mother, Gretchen Crooks, had confiscated his video game about three hours before she was shot to death, an act believed to spark the fit of rage that led to her killing. It was the first homicide reported in that town since 1898.
    “I’m not joking at all. She’s dead. I’m scared. I killed my mom with my .22. I don’t know why I did it,” he told the 911 dispatcher. "I tried to rape her. I tried to rape her but I couldn’t do it." He spoke of playing Call of Duty and said his mother took it away because he got bad grades. “Something just came over me,” he said."

    http://kotaku.com/grand-theft-auto-blamed-after-eight-year-old-shoots-gra-1201375715
    "an eight-year-old boy picked up a loaded gun and shot his grandmother in the head a few minutes after playing Grand Theft Auto IV. You'll never guess which part of that sentence has become a talking point for pundits and media analysts over the past couple of days."

    People who are gun fanatics tend to jump on the games as being the problem in order to dispel any motivation for gun control. They wouldn't question why a 14 year old child has a rifle or why a gun was left lying around in the presence of an 8 year old or why Anders Breivik was able to collect over 300 rounds of ammo and hollow-point bullets (he ordered them from the US, despite being from Norway).

    These stories would appear to confirm that there is a connection between game violence and real violence but that statement is too vague. There's no direct correlation between the portrayal and the violence because millions of people play the same games for decades and have never done any such thing just like millions of people read the same religious texts or watch the same movies and violence doesn't happen as a result.

    Crimes happen due to motive and opportunity. Games, films and literature do not provide opportunities to commit crimes. Violence in games very rarely provides the motive. Anders Breivik's motive was fighting again islamisation. There have been instances where a motive arose from a game:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2771676/I-wanted-live-12-year-old-girl-stabbed-19-times-classmates-wanted-impress-Slender-Man-reveals-cameras-doctors-reveal-millimeter-death.html
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/teen-inspired-slender-man-set-house-fire-police/story?id=25262814
    http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/06/09/slender-man-second-stabbing-teen-attacked-mom-internet-meme/
    http://slendergame.com

    There's an online game about a fictional character called the Slender Man and these people, mostly children (12-14 year old girls) have been influenced into arson and stabbing. The game itself is really an open-ended piece of fiction about a ghostly character. The game's creator said the horror stories posted online weren't there to promote violence:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/04/slenderman-creator-eric-knudsen-speaks-out_n_5449334.html

    The problem in all the above events is bad ideas. Ideas like believing in gods and ghosts or having a hatred towards people who don't believe in the same gods and ghosts.

    Let's say that all games portraying gun violence of any kind were banned (James Bond games, Tomb Raider, Halo), would it have a remedial effect on real-world violence? Of course not because the motive and opportunity for the crimes isn't coming from those games.

    This move on the App Store contradicts Apple's recent stance on freedom of expression too. They have allowed portrayals of Muhammad on the App Store with the Hebdo magazine, the likes of which has resulted in another shooting:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/14/copenhagen-blasphemy-lars-vilks-prophet-muhammad-krudttonden-cafe

    Images of guns have never persuaded someone to shoot someone else. People need a motive to use the guns and opportunity to obtain them. Suppressing the opportunity to obtain them is effective. Suppressing bad ideas, which result in a motive to kill is very difficult but games are rarely in this category anyway.
  • Reply 38 of 43
    Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

    [post]

     

    It’s a testament to your handle on sarcasm that I can’t tell if you’re being serious here.

  • Reply 39 of 43
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

    Images of guns have never persuaded someone to shoot someone else. 

    And you're an expert on this because...?

  • Reply 40 of 43
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,228moderator
    gregq wrote: »
    Marvin wrote: »
    Images of guns have never persuaded someone to shoot someone else. 
    And you're an expert on this because...?

    People who purposefully commit acts of violence do so with a motive. An image of a weapon doesn't give you this motive. The burden of proof here lies on people claiming that the images do give you this motive. I could just as well say that images of Justin Bieber have driven people to murder and all images depicting him should be banned to make the world safer but there's no proven link (yet). Millions upon millions of people have been exposed to images of weapons and Bieber and no violence has resulted from it so there's no direct correlation between the images and the violence.

    Young children might be influenced into playing with guns and accidentally shoot someone but the problem there is access to weapons e.g:

    http://news.sky.com/story/1399907/two-year-old-boy-shoots-mother-dead-at-walmart

    "The 29-year-old mother shot at an Idaho supermarket by her only son was a nuclear scientist and gun rights advocate. A two-year-old boy in a shopping trolley at a Walmart store accidentally shot dead his mother with a gun he found in her handbag."

    In the screenshot shown of the game icon, they switched out a gun that kids shouldn't have access to anyway for a baseball bat, which kids most likely would have access to. Are they to ban images of all weapons like knives, rope, bow and arrows, clenched fists, bats?

    The reason why games use guns so often is that developers haven't come up with a more reliable challenge scenario that can be quickly overcome with the player's interaction than having to shoot someone. Puzzles might never be solved, races take time to complete, beatings are not realistic if they take a single hit and are close range. Games can be interesting without guns but they move at a slower pace and there's less of an emphasis that the player's input is resulting in success or failure.

    Some games try to avoid guns like Remember Me, which got rid of guns entirely for hand-to-hand combat:


    [VIDEO]


    It's a nice change from shooting at things but it's the same general mechanic - groups of enemies and you defeat them with violence to proceed. The weapon the games use is irrelevant to the game mechanic.

    Art imitates life and police/military use guns to do their job. Kids like to play at that just as they have done for decades, long before video games existed. The noise about video games stems from the gun lobbyists who want to divert people away from restricting gun ownership i.e 'it's not the ridiculous amount of available guns that's killing people, it's the games that are convincing them to use the guns' as if a kid would never pick up and use a gun otherwise. This has been disproven numerous times like in the Walmart example.
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