Tim Cook says Apple Watch will replace electronic car keys, confirms Apple Store revamp

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  • Reply 101 of 201
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,511member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    but what if your car battery is dead and your car can't tell you your FOB is about to die?

     

    That's how ridiculous these concerns about a dead watch are.  Your phone is the backup.  


    Weird response.  All I was trying to do was correct your statement that your electronic key can fail without warning.  I'm not sure what that has to do with your car battery, but I'll answer your post anyway...

     

    First of all, if your car battery is dead for months (which is how long of a warning you get that the fob is low) then you have bigger life issues to deal with than your fob battery or your AppleWatch.  Perhaps you should forgo getting a watch and replace your car battery instead.

     

    Second of all, if your car battery is dead at all, then it doesn't matter what you use as a key (keyless fob, physical key, AppleWatch, iPhone, etc, etc, etc) your car still isn't going to start.

     

    Finally, carrying just your AppleWatch and iPhone (no fob or physical key) as the only means of unlocking and/or starting a car would be just begging for trouble.  It may be rare that they would both be dead, but the result could be a huge pain-in-the-ass.  You could find yourself in a strange place, locked out and/or unable to activate the ignition.  In my car, no ignition means no juice to the USB chargers, so it's not like I could just charge up my phone and then start my car.   Bad deal, and I wouldn't be able to call anybody for assistance.

     

    Sure, this occurrence may be rare, but it would definitely happen on a daily basis to somebody, somewhere.  (Different somebodies, different days, and maybe me eventually.)  So, just to be safe, I would feel compelled to carry my keyfob with me too.  In that case, why would I get excited (or even care) which of the devices is starting my car?  Why would I be excited about the AppleWatch having this capability?

     

     There's no way in heck I would rely on any device with such limited battery duration as my primary means of access to my car doors and ignition.

     

    Thompson

  • Reply 102 of 201
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    On some new cars having your fob in your pocket standing close to the car allows you to just reach for the door handle and the doors unlock. Same with the ignition. Just sitting in the drivers seat with all doors closed will allow you to press the start/stop engine button with the fob still in your pocket. Lastly when leaving you simply touch the designated spot on the door handle and all doors lock.


     

    ... but that's what I was talking about... proximity based keyless... which is what is being offered on most cars in 2015.

     

    Anan seems to be talking about something else... either that or we're all talking about the same thing and people aren't realizing that proximity sensing is the standard these days.

     

    Not sure.

  • Reply 103 of 201
    Interesting. 'Proximity key' was not an option when I bought the car in Dec 2013.

    I don't recall it as a feature when I bought one in April 2013, but I also didn't get that package with the large color display. I wish i would have.

    I'm actually having a new vehicle delivered tomorrow, but this is a utility van, but I opted for the technology package, but still have to press a button to lock and unlock. Utility vehicles don't get the same updates as even compact cars, which isn't unexpected.
  • Reply 104 of 201
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

    I don't really understand the difference between the two.


    By the former (i.e., 'comfort access' in the case of BMW), I mean this (the link calls it a 'smart key'); the term 'keyless entry', however, apparently means this (a remote system to open the vehicle without physically inserting the key).*

     

    More to the point, even with the latter, there is presumably some sort of sensor that recognizes a signal from a button press at a distance to unlock/lock. Why would such a sensor not work with a watch or a phone as the signaling device?

     

     

    *However, it would appear that some people use the term 'keyless' to refer to 'smart keys' (which is what I initially did). There does not appear to be a commonly accepted usage from what I can see!

  • Reply 105 of 201
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

     

    By the former (i.e., 'comfort access' in the case of BMW), I mean this (the link calls it a 'smart key'); the term 'keyless entry', however, apparently means this (a remote system to open the vehicle without physically inserting the key).*

     

    More to the point, even with the latter, there is presumably some sort of sensor that recognizes a signal from a button press at a distance to unlock/lock. Why would such a sensor not work with a watch or a phone as the signaling device?

     

     

    *However, it would appear that some people use the term 'keyless' to refer to 'smart keys' (which is what I initially did). There does not appear to be a commonly accepted usage from what I can see!


     

    Okay... I got it.

     

    Proximity based systems are what is being offered in most cars in 2015... Hondas had it in 2014.

     

    Like what was being said about Car Play the other day... people will start not accepting a car without proximity based keyless entry in the near future... but I believe most manufacturers have started offering it now.

  • Reply 106 of 201
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thompr View Post

     

    Finally, carrying just your AppleWatch and iPhone (no fob or physical key) as the only means of unlocking and/or starting a car would be just begging for trouble. 


    I wouldn't do it either because I never know when out of the blue a client wants to give me a big contract and we need to talk about it over lunch, where we go there is only valet parking. Or, the tire pressure indicator lights up and I need to swing by the dealer to have it looked at. Surprisingly, this happens a couple times a year as the seasons change. I wouldn't want to have to give them my watch to drive it into the garage. Having to plan ahead when you might need your fob and when you probably won't is not a decision I want to make on a daily basis, especially first thing in the morning as I'm walking out the door un-caffeinated. My fob is staying in my pocket with the three-pat technique everyday.

  • Reply 107 of 201
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,511member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    I don't recall it as a feature when I bought one in April 2013, but I also didn't get that package with the large color display. I wish i would have.



    I'm actually having a new vehicle delivered tomorrow, but this is a utility van, but I opted for the technology package, but still have to press a button to lock and unlock. Utility vehicles don't get the same updates as even compact cars, which isn't unexpected.

    My Infiniti G35S from 2008 has the keyless entry using the keyfob.  So it's definitely not a new feature.  It was kind of a high-end feature back then, but not new in 2013.  My 2012 Sienna Van also had it.

     

    Thompson 

  • Reply 108 of 201
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,511member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

     

     

    Okay... I got it.

     

    Proximity based systems are what is being offered in most cars in 2015... Hondas had it in 2014.

     

    Like what was being said about Car Play the other day... people will start not accepting a car without proximity based keyless entry in the near future... but I believe most manufacturers have started offering it now.


    Infiniti had this in 2008.  Toyota had it in 2012.

  • Reply 109 of 201
    mj webmj web Posts: 918member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

     

    I'm really debating whether to throw another 10-20K into Apple stock. If the Apple Watch launch is a massive success we could be in a valley right now. But who knows. 




    AAPL generally conforms to "Buy the rumor sell the news" so I anticipate AAPL dipping regardless of the Watch's merits. Nothing goes straight up and AAPL has had a great run in 2015. As a longhorn shareholder I expect a 150 handle on the stock by Q4 but not without retreats and breathers. 

  • Reply 110 of 201
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eightzero View Post

     

    FOB= "Fixed On Board" It's a shipping term. FOB purchaser means they pay the shipping and bear risk of loss for the state price. FOB manufacturer is...you guessed it.




    It can also be "Forward Operating Base" (see news articles on Afghanistan etc)

  • Reply 111 of 201
    "Some have speculated that the current spate of rumors surrounding the development of an Apple Car actually point to an expansion of CarPlay"

    This is my vote. I don't think they want to make a car so much as understand how Apple products can better work with cars. Imagine CarPlay being able to give us the same deets that right now we need devices like Automatic for.
  • Reply 112 of 201
    thompr wrote: »
    My Infiniti G35S from 2008 has the keyless entry using the keyfob.  So it's definitely not a new feature.  It was kind of a high-end feature back then, but not new in 2013.  My 2012 Sienna Van also had it.

    Thompson 

    1) You use the term "keyless entry" but we're talking about a proximity sensor and push button start. Yes, that's also keyless, but you don't have a press a button on a fob in order to unlock the doors.

    2) Having this feature available on other cars means nothing. No one is saying that Hyundai invented the proximity sensor and push button start, or that they first used it in the Hyundai Elantra. It should be obvious that the Elantra would not be the first car in the world to use this technology.
  • Reply 113 of 201
    charlituna wrote: »
    "Some have speculated that the current spate of rumors surrounding the development of an Apple Car actually point to an expansion of CarPlay"

    This is my vote. I don't think they want to make a car so much as understand how Apple products can better work with cars. Imagine CarPlay being able to give us the same deets that right now we need devices like Automatic for.

    CarPlay is coming to most manufacturers. It'll be in the Hyundai Sonata later this year for their 2016 models, according to their website. It will also include Android Auto.
  • Reply 114 of 201
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thompr View Post

     

    Weird response.  All I was trying to do was correct your statement that your electronic key can fail without warning.  I'm not sure what that has to do with your car battery, but I'll answer your post anyway...

     

    First of all, if your car battery is dead for months (which is how long of a warning you get that the fob is low) then you have bigger life issues to deal with than your fob battery or your AppleWatch.  Perhaps you should forgo getting a watch and replace your car battery instead.

     

    Second of all, if your car battery is dead at all, then it doesn't matter what you use as a key (keyless fob, physical key, AppleWatch, iPhone, etc, etc, etc) your car still isn't going to start.

     

    Finally, carrying just your AppleWatch and iPhone (no fob or physical key) as the only means of unlocking and/or starting a car would be just begging for trouble.  It may be rare that they would both be dead, but the result could be a huge pain-in-the-ass.  You could find yourself in a strange place, locked out and/or unable to activate the ignition.  In my car, no ignition means no juice to the USB chargers, so it's not like I could just charge up my phone and then start my car.   Bad deal, and I wouldn't be able to call anybody for assistance.

     

    Sure, this occurrence may be rare, but it would definitely happen on a daily basis to somebody, somewhere.  (Different somebodies, different days, and maybe me eventually.)  So, just to be safe, I would feel compelled to carry my keyfob with me too.  In that case, why would I get excited (or even care) which of the devices is starting my car?  Why would I be excited about the AppleWatch having this capability?

     

     There's no way in heck I would rely on any device with such limited battery duration as my primary means of access to my car doors and ignition.

     

    Thompson


     

    Of course, you wouldn't care just for that, but all those little things accrue.  For me, digging in my purse for keys in annoying (the purse seems to get bigger by the day!) and I'd welcome opening whatever off my wrist. Doesn't mean I wouldn't keep the keys in my purse/dongeon anyway for backup :-). The watch's already there for other functions; if it was the only thing it did, it would be pointless.

  • Reply 115 of 201
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    There's a couple of issues that we haven't seen any speculation on.

     

    1) If the car doesn't support proximity ignition/doors how can ?Watch interact?

     

    2) How does the ?Watch handle multiple cars?

     

    3) If the ?Watch can open cars, why can't the much more capable iPhone?

     

    4) will the watch have the normal long range wireless lock/unlock/panic feature?

  • Reply 116 of 201
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

     

    By the former (i.e., 'comfort access' in the case of BMW), I mean this (the link calls it a 'smart key'); the term 'keyless entry', however, apparently means this (a remote system to open the vehicle without physically inserting the key).*

     

    More to the point, even with the latter, there is presumably some sort of sensor that recognizes a signal from a button press at a distance to unlock/lock. Why would such a sensor not work with a watch or a phone as the signaling device?

     

     

    *However, it would appear that some people use the term 'keyless' to refer to 'smart keys' (which is what I initially did). There does not appear to be a commonly accepted usage from what I can see!


     

    Remote Keyless entry systems on cars use radio signals - 315 MHz in the US and 433.92 Mhz everywhere else.  Unless the ?Watch was designed and equipped with a radio transmitter that operates on the frequency these devices use it obviously couldn't generate a functional signal. Bluetooth operates in the range of 2400–2483.5 MHz so a standard Bluetooth transmitter couldn't do the job.  These systems use encryption systems with many having a rolling code functionality so that when used, the coded signal recognized by the car changes to prevent thieves with scanners from recording the signal and replicating it.

     

    I doubt the ?Watch could be made to work with existing cars.

  • Reply 117 of 201
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,511member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    1) You use the term "keyless entry" but we're talking about a proximity sensor and push button start. Yes, that's also keyless, but you don't have a press a button on a fob in order to unlock the doors.

    2) Having this feature available on other cars means nothing. No one is saying that Hyundai invented the proximity sensor and push button start, or that they first used it in the Hyundai Elantra. It should be obvious that the Elantra would not be the first car in the world to use this technology.

    (1) I'm talking about the same thing as you are regardless of my terminology. My key fob never leaves the confines of my pocket, gym bag, or briefcase. I touch a button on the door handle to unlock it, and I push a button to start the car.

    (2) I'm not trying to make some huge point or refute someone's argument. I'm just lettting folks know that these features have been around since at least 2008. Some folks on this thread seemed to have been unaware of that, and I thought they might appreciate the knowledge. At a minimum it adds this perspective: I have been doing this since March 2008 and I've had to change my key fob battery twice, most recently last month. So two batteries lasted about 7 years. Oh, and this: from my experience, there's no way I would go away from the house in my car with only the AppleWatch to do the honors of letting me in and firing it up.
  • Reply 118 of 201
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,511member
    foggyhill wrote: »
    Of course, you wouldn't care just for that, but all those little things accrue.  For me, digging in my purse for keys in annoying (the purse seems to get bigger by the day!) and I'd welcome opening whatever off my wrist. Doesn't mean I wouldn't keep the keys in my purse/dongeon anyway for backup :-).
    The watch's already there for other functions; if it was the only thing it did, it would be pointless.

    Oh, to be sure, I love the AppleWatch. I want the AppleWatch. I will HAVE the AppleWatch! :)

    I'm just pointing out that since I'll be carrying my key fob with me anyway, and it is doing its job wherever it is on my person, then this feature that Tim Cook is touting is redundant and therefore useless to me. If you have lived with this capability for seven years as I have (giving my key fob to valets, car wash attendants, battery life of 3.5 years with months of low bat warnings vs one day charges) you would rapidly come to the conclusion that Cook just engaged in what we typically see the competitors engage in: shallow showmanship. (I'm a Cook fan, btw, but I'm calling him out on this one and have already forgiven him.)
  • Reply 119 of 201
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post





    Ok, let me try: "Freight On Board"

     

    http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/FOB

  • Reply 120 of 201
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     

    I doubt the ?Watch could be made to work with existing cars.


    And there's more than that ... my Mercedes fob has a chip in it that tells the ignition the key is authorized to start the engine, otherwise the computer kills the engine. How will the ?Watch emulate that custom chip?

     

    It seems clear to me that Tim Cook is talking about the future ... keyless entry systems that have BlueTooth interface, the kind that tech pundits and security experts are wide open to be hacked allowing someone to remotely take over a car. The NSA, CIA and other agencies are likely already looking into ways to exploit such openings to combat the bad guys.

     

    These are value added features that consumers want from car companies, and they can charge a premium for them upfront, and to maintain them. But anybody expecting to buy an ?Watch to unlock their late-2000 mid-range compact keyless entry system will be very disappointed.

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