Legitimate question: can you have a feature like talking into a microphone and be waterproof? (without having to scream)
Exactly what I was thinking.
My response would be impossible (almost), especially for high quality stuff. Noting is impossible for engineers though, that's why they exist.
I'm not sure I understand this. Isn't the "7" rating inclusive of the 0-6 Liquid ingress protection categories? Which include water splashing, and water jets such as from a shower?
It's not inclusive. They are different tests. To get a rating certification you just have to pass the test you you want the certification for. IPX7 rating is theoretically more protective than IPX6, but not necessarily. Also if you read the IPX6 spec carefully you will see that the water jets are shot from 3 meters away. The effect at the object is much less than the spec might suggest (the standard for the jet are for near the nozzle of the jet, not at the object.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror
Wrong. IPX6 tests against water jets:
Water projected in powerful jets (12.5 mm nozzle) against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects.
Test duration: at least 3 minutes
Water volume: 100 litres per minute
Pressure: 100 kPa at distance of 3 m
The test for IPX7 covers the IPX6 case because the pressure at 1 m depth is 111 kPa, higher than that of the water jet.
Nope.
They are two very different tests, and IPX7 certification, though considered a higher level of protection, does not mean IPX6 was also passed. IPX7 is static while IPX6 is dynamic (which tests the item in a different way.) Also keep in mind these are lab tests and there's a big difference between passing a lab test and performance in use. The spec means it passed the spec. Real world experience shows what something that passes the spec can be expected to withstand. Apple doesn't' OK showering or swimming it because they know from tests that it's not a good idea.
Battery life can't be compared or debated….until your beloved Pebble's capabilities match AppleWatch.
Just like iPhone 1.0, Apple is just getting their feet wet with AppleWatch 1.0. The next iteration will satisfy most of the naysayers.
Well you can't have it both ways
If you want to compare the first colour product, then the new pebble time with a colour screen has a 7 day battery life
If you want to compare the first watch made, then the first pebble had a 5 day battery life
Why is it that Apple fans have to trash talk anything that doesn't have the apple logo on it?
Yes Apple makes some great products
But that doesn't mean that anything else is trash
And it doesn't man that you can't see the merits of some of the competition
Just like the Apple fans who tash talked the phablets, that are not carrying an iPhone 6 plus
Well you can't have it both ways
If you want to compare the first colour product, then the new pebble time with a colour screen has a 7 day battery life
If you want to compare the first watch made, then the first pebble had a 5 day battery life
Why is it that Apple fans have to trash talk anything that doesn't have the apple logo on it?
Yes Apple makes some great products
But that doesn't mean that anything else is trash
And it doesn't man that you can't see the merits of some of the competition
Just like the Apple fans who tash talked the phablets, that are not carrying an iPhone 6 plus
You're the one talking shit. You're comparing devices that extremely different HW features to slam ?Watch battery life. Your anti-Apple argument using Pebble is as stupid as someone sayjng your Pebble watch is a piece if shit because the battery only lasts a week when a cheap $5 Casio watch battery can last years.
Legitimate question: can you have a feature like talking into a microphone and be waterproof? (without having to scream)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bro2ma
Exactly what I was thinking.
My response would be impossible (almost), especially for high quality stuff. Noting is impossible for engineers though, that's why they exist.
Only a tiny orifice is necessary for a microphone to work. The surface tension of water, along with the bubble of air within the cavity of the orifice, prevents water from entering that orifice, provided the microphone is sealed to the orifice inside the device.
The pressure of water below 1m. will force water past that bubble of air.
Guys, this is all done purposefully. Apple could easily create a waterproof watch good for swimming, but then what would be the big surprise during rev. 2. This is typical marketing.
Not when Tim Cook is on record as having said he wears his watch in the shower all the time. That's all I need to play for the genius at the Apple Store when I take it in for replacement due to water damage.
"Under the IPX7 designation, the Apple Watch will be able to withstand immersion in water up to 1 meter for up to 30 minutes. "
You had HIGHER expectations than this? I mean, fucking really? I don't know how anyone in their right mind expected the Apple Watch to be completely waterproof. That's just irrationality on your part.
Guys, this is all done purposefully. Apple could easily create a waterproof watch good for swimming, but then what would be the big surprise during rev. 2. This is typical marketing.
Yep. Every single improvement Apple makes in their product lines is just purposely held back, and could have existed from the very beginning. Hell, they just "purposefully" waited till now to release the new Macbook, they could have done so in 1992.
I feel sorry for you, if you believe it's "easy" to make something like the Apple Watch completely waterproof. It means you have little understanding of what goes into it, and how technology works. If Apple could have done so reliably with no major design or technology compromises, I'm sure they would have, since they can't afford to "purposefully" leave stuff out with this new product line. They need it to start with a bang. If it's not waterproof, its because of better reasons than "na, we'll just wait till rev. 2".
Despite Mac_128's trolling, Cook did say he wears it in the shower, and Apple's own sites state you can get it wet in the rain (which can be more rough than a shower), washing hands (which can be a lot more water over the wrists than a shower), and has an IPX7 rating (which is passing a 1M depth submersion test for 30 minutes (which means it's rated to survive a standard bath and very likely causing no ingress issues into the components if you were to swim on a regular basis).
Note, for the last item, I don't recommend without knowing more about the microphone because even if water doesn't get into the components causing it to shut down, the microphone isn't going to work properly if the external compartment is water filled. And then you have the potential for soap to gum up (which can happen with washing hands if you're not careful) or chlorine to wear away at certain materials if you use it for swimming.
"Under the IPX7 designation, the Apple Watch will be able to withstand immersion in water up to 1 meter for up to 30 minutes. "
You had HIGHER expectations than this? I mean, fucking really? I don't know how anyone in their right mind expected the Apple Watch to be completely waterproof. That's just irrationality on your part.
There are some posters here I wouldn't mind holding under 1M of water for 30 minutes. :smokey:
Despite Mac_128's trolling, Cook did say he wears it in the shower, and Apple's own sites state you can get it wet in the rain (which can be more rough than a shower), washing hands (which can be a lot more water over the wrists than a shower), and has an IPX7 rating (which is passing a 1M depth submersion test for 30 minutes (which means it's rated to survive a **standard bath**?and very likely causing no ingress issues into the components if you were to swim on a regular basis).
Note, for the last item, I don't recommend without knowing more about the microphone because even if water doesn't get into the components causing it to shut down, the microphone isn't going to work properly if the external compartment is water filled. And then you have the potential for soap to gum up (which can happen with washing hands if you're not careful) or chlorine to wear away at certain materials if you use it for swimming.
Sounds like you're talking out your ass.
I have never seen IPX7 certification characterized in the way you claim here.
Share with us your documentation of these "facts" you are proclaiming about IPX7 certified electronics and repeated swimming with them. It sounds fascinating, especially the "standard baths."
Is anyone even a little stunned at the costs? This is a first gen version and we are expected to spend significant $$'s on watch and bands or something that isn't even waterproof. The cost of the bands is insane. I say wait for version 2 at least and also wait for android wear to be iOS compatible in the spring.
Sounds like you're talking out your ass.
I have never seen IPX7 certification characterized in the way you claim here.
Share with us your documentation of these "facts" you are proclaiming about IPX7 certified electronics and repeated swimming with them. It sounds fascinating, especially the "standard baths."
What kind of documentation could you actually need? I know that the metric system can be challenging for Americans but it's pretty fucking simple to convert 1 meter into inches or feet.
Now tell me, how many bathtubs in homes are deeper than 3.28 feet? I don't know of any and yet you're saying I'm "talking out my ass" and want some documentation that 1M is less deep than a bathtub. Seriously?! :rolleyes:
I have never seen IPX7 certification characterized in the way you claim here.
Share with us your documentation of these "facts" you are proclaiming about IPX7 certified electronics and repeated swimming with them. It sounds fascinating, especially the "standard baths."
Wow, just wow. Would have taken you 5 seconds to use Google, instead of making a complete idiot out of yourself by attacking him for being right.
Yep. Every single improvement Apple makes in their product lines is just purposely held back, and could have existed from the very beginning. Hell, they just "purposefully" waited till now to release the new Macbook, they could have done so in 1992.
I feel sorry for you, if you believe it's "easy" to make something like the Apple Watch completely waterproof. It means you have little understanding of what goes into it, and how technology works. If Apple could have done so reliably with no major design or technology compromises, I'm sure they would have, since they can't afford to "purposefully" leave stuff out with this new product line. They need it to start with a bang. If it's not waterproof, its because of better reasons than "na, we'll just wait till rev. 2".
Water proof smart watches have existed for many years now. Apple is so late in the game with this they could have easily incorporated this, pretty much every major company besides Del Monte Foods has a smart watch out.
Water proof smart watches have existed for many years now. Apple is so late in the game with this they could have easily incorporated this, pretty much every major company besides Del Monte Foods has a smart watch out.
Show me a single "smartwatch" that existed many years ago that in any way completes with ?Watch. I haven't seen any. They've all been mostly black plastic and I don't recall any that had the HW components Apple is using on there high-end design.
Furthermore, there is more of a divide between those "more-stuff-a-traditional-watch-but-not exactly-a-smartwatch" than there is between today's iPhone 6 series and Blackberry 8800 series (from 2007). They were throwing shit at a wall, which is how all those companies do it while Apple is busy planning and perfecting actual features that will be useful and enjoyable to use. Now we'll see those same companies jump to copy Apple and people like you say what Apple did was obvious all this time even though everyone is now playing catch up... and, as you, they beat Apple to this market category many years ago.
Comments
Exactly what I was thinking.
My response would be impossible (almost), especially for high quality stuff. Noting is impossible for engineers though, that's why they exist.
I'm not sure I understand this. Isn't the "7" rating inclusive of the 0-6 Liquid ingress protection categories? Which include water splashing, and water jets such as from a shower?
It's not inclusive. They are different tests. To get a rating certification you just have to pass the test you you want the certification for. IPX7 rating is theoretically more protective than IPX6, but not necessarily. Also if you read the IPX6 spec carefully you will see that the water jets are shot from 3 meters away. The effect at the object is much less than the spec might suggest (the standard for the jet are for near the nozzle of the jet, not at the object.)
Wrong. IPX6 tests against water jets:
Test duration: at least 3 minutes
Water volume: 100 litres per minute
Pressure: 100 kPa at distance of 3 m
The test for IPX7 covers the IPX6 case because the pressure at 1 m depth is 111 kPa, higher than that of the water jet.
Nope.
They are two very different tests, and IPX7 certification, though considered a higher level of protection, does not mean IPX6 was also passed. IPX7 is static while IPX6 is dynamic (which tests the item in a different way.) Also keep in mind these are lab tests and there's a big difference between passing a lab test and performance in use. The spec means it passed the spec. Real world experience shows what something that passes the spec can be expected to withstand. Apple doesn't' OK showering or swimming it because they know from tests that it's not a good idea.
So making fun of the pebble that's been on the market for over a year
Or the new colour one, which happens to be the most succesful kickstarter EVER Is all you could come up with?
If the monotone or shitty colour watch maker can make a waterproof watch
Surely your beloved Apple could match them no?
Yeah the shitty colour watch also has a battery that lasts up to 10 days
Not 18 hours
So don't knock them too much, till Apple can match those specs
Battery life can't be compared or debated….until your beloved Pebble's capabilities match AppleWatch.
Just like iPhone 1.0, Apple is just getting their feet wet with AppleWatch 1.0. The next iteration will satisfy most of the naysayers.
No it won't. They'll just come up with other stuff;
'What? I can't teleport with it?? Ooooh that's a deal breaker for me."
Well you can't have it both ways
If you want to compare the first colour product, then the new pebble time with a colour screen has a 7 day battery life
If you want to compare the first watch made, then the first pebble had a 5 day battery life
Why is it that Apple fans have to trash talk anything that doesn't have the apple logo on it?
Yes Apple makes some great products
But that doesn't mean that anything else is trash
And it doesn't man that you can't see the merits of some of the competition
Just like the Apple fans who tash talked the phablets, that are not carrying an iPhone 6 plus
You're the one talking shit. You're comparing devices that extremely different HW features to slam ?Watch battery life. Your anti-Apple argument using Pebble is as stupid as someone sayjng your Pebble watch is a piece if shit because the battery only lasts a week when a cheap $5 Casio watch battery can last years.
Legitimate question: can you have a feature like talking into a microphone and be waterproof? (without having to scream)
Exactly what I was thinking.
My response would be impossible (almost), especially for high quality stuff. Noting is impossible for engineers though, that's why they exist.
Only a tiny orifice is necessary for a microphone to work. The surface tension of water, along with the bubble of air within the cavity of the orifice, prevents water from entering that orifice, provided the microphone is sealed to the orifice inside the device.
The pressure of water below 1m. will force water past that bubble of air.
Guys, this is all done purposefully. Apple could easily create a waterproof watch good for swimming, but then what would be the big surprise during rev. 2. This is typical marketing.
No it won't. They'll just come up with other stuff;
'What? I can't teleport with it?? Ooooh that's a deal breaker for me."
That's a completely different issue, IYAM.
Really? You have a recording of Cook saying this?
Answer: Nope.
That's a deal breaker for me.
"Under the IPX7 designation, the Apple Watch will be able to withstand immersion in water up to 1 meter for up to 30 minutes. "
You had HIGHER expectations than this? I mean, fucking really? I don't know how anyone in their right mind expected the Apple Watch to be completely waterproof. That's just irrationality on your part.
Guys, this is all done purposefully. Apple could easily create a waterproof watch good for swimming, but then what would be the big surprise during rev. 2. This is typical marketing.
Yep. Every single improvement Apple makes in their product lines is just purposely held back, and could have existed from the very beginning. Hell, they just "purposefully" waited till now to release the new Macbook, they could have done so in 1992.
I feel sorry for you, if you believe it's "easy" to make something like the Apple Watch completely waterproof. It means you have little understanding of what goes into it, and how technology works. If Apple could have done so reliably with no major design or technology compromises, I'm sure they would have, since they can't afford to "purposefully" leave stuff out with this new product line. They need it to start with a bang. If it's not waterproof, its because of better reasons than "na, we'll just wait till rev. 2".
Despite Mac_128's trolling, Cook did say he wears it in the shower, and Apple's own sites state you can get it wet in the rain (which can be more rough than a shower), washing hands (which can be a lot more water over the wrists than a shower), and has an IPX7 rating (which is passing a 1M depth submersion test for 30 minutes (which means it's rated to survive a standard bath and very likely causing no ingress issues into the components if you were to swim on a regular basis).
Note, for the last item, I don't recommend without knowing more about the microphone because even if water doesn't get into the components causing it to shut down, the microphone isn't going to work properly if the external compartment is water filled. And then you have the potential for soap to gum up (which can happen with washing hands if you're not careful) or chlorine to wear away at certain materials if you use it for swimming.
There are some posters here I wouldn't mind holding under 1M of water for 30 minutes. :smokey:
Despite Mac_128's trolling, Cook did say he wears it in the shower, and Apple's own sites state you can get it wet in the rain (which can be more rough than a shower), washing hands (which can be a lot more water over the wrists than a shower), and has an IPX7 rating (which is passing a 1M depth submersion test for 30 minutes (which means it's rated to survive a **standard bath**? and very likely causing no ingress issues into the components if you were to swim on a regular basis).
Note, for the last item, I don't recommend without knowing more about the microphone because even if water doesn't get into the components causing it to shut down, the microphone isn't going to work properly if the external compartment is water filled. And then you have the potential for soap to gum up (which can happen with washing hands if you're not careful) or chlorine to wear away at certain materials if you use it for swimming.
Sounds like you're talking out your ass.
I have never seen IPX7 certification characterized in the way you claim here.
Share with us your documentation of these "facts" you are proclaiming about IPX7 certified electronics and repeated swimming with them. It sounds fascinating, especially the "standard baths."
What kind of documentation could you actually need? I know that the metric system can be challenging for Americans but it's pretty fucking simple to convert 1 meter into inches or feet.
Now tell me, how many bathtubs in homes are deeper than 3.28 feet? I don't know of any and yet you're saying I'm "talking out my ass" and want some documentation that 1M is less deep than a bathtub. Seriously?! :rolleyes:
Sounds like you're talking out your ass.
I have never seen IPX7 certification characterized in the way you claim here.
Share with us your documentation of these "facts" you are proclaiming about IPX7 certified electronics and repeated swimming with them. It sounds fascinating, especially the "standard baths."
Wow, just wow. Would have taken you 5 seconds to use Google, instead of making a complete idiot out of yourself by attacking him for being right.
Yep. Every single improvement Apple makes in their product lines is just purposely held back, and could have existed from the very beginning. Hell, they just "purposefully" waited till now to release the new Macbook, they could have done so in 1992.
I feel sorry for you, if you believe it's "easy" to make something like the Apple Watch completely waterproof. It means you have little understanding of what goes into it, and how technology works. If Apple could have done so reliably with no major design or technology compromises, I'm sure they would have, since they can't afford to "purposefully" leave stuff out with this new product line. They need it to start with a bang. If it's not waterproof, its because of better reasons than "na, we'll just wait till rev. 2".
Water proof smart watches have existed for many years now. Apple is so late in the game with this they could have easily incorporated this, pretty much every major company besides Del Monte Foods has a smart watch out.
Show me a single "smartwatch" that existed many years ago that in any way completes with ?Watch. I haven't seen any. They've all been mostly black plastic and I don't recall any that had the HW components Apple is using on there high-end design.
Furthermore, there is more of a divide between those "more-stuff-a-traditional-watch-but-not exactly-a-smartwatch" than there is between today's iPhone 6 series and Blackberry 8800 series (from 2007). They were throwing shit at a wall, which is how all those companies do it while Apple is busy planning and perfecting actual features that will be useful and enjoyable to use. Now we'll see those same companies jump to copy Apple and people like you say what Apple did was obvious all this time even though everyone is now playing catch up... and, as you, they beat Apple to this market category many years ago.