Its clearly mentioned any of this investment is not for Apple to hire directly. Its to enlighten women population. When you go into a mall to buy toys for kids, you find all remote controlled cars, legos and stuff that demands you to think, and for girls its only Barbie dolls. People have to know about that. They should know girls can do better than being cute. And it takes money to propagate that idea. Apple is not the only tech company that thinks more women should be in tech arena. All big players and more enlightened individuals think so.
When you go into a mall to buy toys for kids, you find all remote controlled cars, legos and stuff that demands you to think, and for girls its only Barbie dolls. People have to know about that.
Except that isn’t even remotely close to being the case.
They should know girls can do better than being cute.
When you go into a mall to buy toys for kids, you find all remote controlled cars, legos and stuff that demands you to think, and for girls its only Barbie dolls. People have to know about that.
They should know girls can do better than being cute. And it takes money to propagate that idea.
I like how you're the one levelling accusations of ignorance and in the same paragraph spout non-sequitur drivel about legos vs barbie dolls.
Watch this:
There's REAL SCIENCE to explain why girls play with barbies and kitchen sets, and boys play with toy soldiers, firetrucks and toy tools.
LOL @ needing to enlighten women, implying that preferring social situations, dealing with people face to face and taking care of a household for example are less worthy than crying in the fetal position after an engineering final exam during 3-5 years of hell on earth.
Please go back to the plebbit --- sorry -- reddit hug box. And feel free to make a post on tumblr about how someone disrespected your preferred pronoun or something.
If I discovered I lost out of a job opening because a person less qualified got it just because that person was a woman, or black, or whatever.. I'd sue for discrimination. I'm Hispanic and I don't believe one iota that a person's gender, color, etc.. should be given consideration over another applicant.
I busted my ass to get to where I'm at. I came from a poor, disadvantaged background and against all odds, I made it. I didn't have anyone spoon-feed me an opportunity because of my background. White folks back in the segregated days always did it, now we're doing it in the reverse and somehow that makes it okay? Affirmative action for the corporate world is still discrimination.
I'm all for more women and people of color in the workplace. Absolutely for it, but get them in there because they earned it.
If there aren't enough women in engineering, well then make engineering more attractive to women.
If there aren't enough people of color in college to get those degrees, well then get those programs in place and work on society's social ills to resolve that. There are tons of opportunities for disadvantaged folks to enter college if they choose to make the effort to do it.
Heck... besides white folks, Asians don't seem to have any problem getting into that very desirable area either and last time I checked, asians are a "minority" group too. Why are they able to get to that level and not others given many had the same rough upbringing?
Well said. You don't see any hispanic, east indian or asian marches demanding equality. They just go out and get 'er done.
Currently OS X (Yosemite) and iOS are disasters. That came to be with what APPLE currently has in house. It's time for diversity.
The weather has sucked lately.....it's time for diversity. There's too many mosquitoes in my backyard....it's time for diversity. My mailman always delivers the mail late....it's time for diversity. I hate the pothole at the end of my street.....it's time for diversity. WOW! Diversity really does cure everything!
Really? I just quoted how things are in a normal, everyday mall. My statement had no hint of humor in it. Except you wanted to use that fancy word of your's, I suppose. Please go back to the plebbit --- sorry -- reddit hug box. And feel free to make a post on tumblr about how someone disrespected your preferred noun or something.
Real science says people like to eat lot of fatty food. Do you in your right mind eat lot of that 'cos you have seen it on youtube?
Do you think Apple had a good mood and wanted to throw a cheque of $50 million to some random cause?
Real science show people like to do a lot of unhealthy stuff. Governments all around the world spend billions to enlighten people to tell following instincts is not necessarily a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by qvak
...
LOL @ needing to enlighten women, implying that preferring social situations, dealing with people face to face and taking care of a household for example are less worthy than crying in the fetal position after an engineering final exam during 3-5 years of hell on earth.
...
Man! This funding nowhere talks about reservations for women, except you like to look at it like that and want everyone to have your view. For once, take off your colored glasses and read the whole article and come back to reply.
Anything a company does in this nature is great. However are minorities and women really that disadvantaged? If a woman was driven are you telling me they would not be able to navigate into tech? Or a black skinned american? I am being serious. I just do not believe that there is a disadvantage if you apply yourself. Thoughts???
One of the problems is that it goes back a long time. It may not seem so relevant in today's society (although the police killings of African-Americans are a reminder that it's not such a rosy world), but think of the long-term problem. Because of rampant discrimination even through the 1980s, the older generation of African-Americans had much less chance of getting an education, or getting a well-paying job. So many in the newer generation are disadvantaged in a subtler way - their parents may have no knowledge on how to help them get an education, may not be able to give them the extras growing up that they need, or be able to pay the extra expenses needed in college.
This program is geared toward giving young people (women, minorities, veterans) the confidence to try and succeed. Even today, bad teachers in bad schools all too often discourage instead of encourage smart young minorities, who may not have educated parents to help guide them.
I can see people thinking that slavery happened a long time ago, women have had the vote for 100 years now, legal school discrimination ended in the 1960s, they;re sick of hearing about it, etc. But the repercussions are still being felt, and there are more subtle roadblocks to get through.
Example: my friend's daughter is applying for college engineering programs. Through the state university, there are 36 people from tech and other companies conducting interviews for a special program. 35 of them are men. If you've followed recent stories about how some women are treated by male students in some of the best engineering programs in the country (even Stanford), you can see the extra barriers they face.
Anything a company does in this nature is great. However are minorities and women really that disadvantaged? If a woman was driven are you telling me they would not be able to navigate into tech? Or a black skinned american? I am being serious. I just do not believe that there is a disadvantage if you apply yourself. Thoughts???
Some people at a company I was hired at awhile ago quit because the sexism was so bad. The same thing happened with employees that are of a minority status. I think the sexism happens more often than racism in the tech world. However, many qualified minorities never get through the door because of things like "ohh we don't share the same vision technologically". The goal of diversity is to have diversity of thinking. If everyone comes from the same background it can be difficult to address up and coming challenges. In the tech world it's always the basement dweller type guy from an upper middle class white family who they are giving the jobs too. If you always hire that person you are going to likely get the same old ideas and no out of the box thinking because everyone is basically the same person but with a different last name.
When a black guy does actually get hired they don't offer up any encouragement at the same levels of everyone else. You get treated like you are stupid and ridiculed and overlooked for promotions and treated like less than the other employees no investment in growing you like they do with other devs etc... Let me tell ya from first hand experience... it can be very draining. I think the best manager I had was a really good female dev manager that didn't actually write code who the company ran off. She could be tough but she helped me grow a lot. My next manager benefitted greatly from her helping me grow and on the next performance review I received a big bonus, salary increase, and got to take on some more responsibility.
Rather than saying ohhh there aren't any qualified black people.... lets be honest you need to hire up the ones who are already in the market and train them to work within your organization...and they can show the others who are up and coming how it's done and help them along. Companies nowadays want a ready made product but in reality you need to invest in the people and train people to be what you need them to be. Throwing $50 million dollars around isn't going to do much of anything. That money will mostly be wasted and have no accountability and oversight. Companies would be better off just hiring and training people to do the jobs they need them to do.
^^^ Being black isn't the issue, I gotta tell ya. All businesses are competitive internally. Every place I've worked at there is backstabbing, blaming others and assaults against the character of others. Politics is everything and a person who is unable to play politics gets passed over for promotions, will become a target and not rise to the top in the organization. Personally, I detested and avoided the politics and often got played by other employees who were dishonest and willing to throw anyone under the bus.
I work in tech and there aren't many women, but I don't think it's because of discrimination. Most of the guys I work with are nice nerdy guys and whenever the rare women comes around she is made to feel welcome.
I think it's because engineers in general have a low social status (unlike say, doctors or movie stars) and women are more sensitive to their social status than men. It's not some kind of biological preference against engineering. Yes, little boys and girls have biological preferences (cowboys vs tea sets) but by the time you reach adulthood, you have passed the age of reason and your mind has taken over. And once that happens there's no reason you can't get a female mind that likes engineering.
As a percentage, the number of women studying computer science is falling. The industry is becoming more hostile to women as it transitions from being an industry full of outsiders to an industry full of bros.
Yeah right, let's just throw trillions of dollars at it like the stupid people do and watch what happens. So many people here are dense, I can even see the protectionism by many of the white males here. Get over yourselves, you are not the cure to humanity, you are the cancer, get it.
One of the problems is that it goes back a long time. It may not seem so relevant in today's society (although the police killings of African-Americans are a reminder that it's not such a rosy world), but think of the long-term problem. Because of rampant discrimination even through the 1980s, the older generation of African-Americans had much less chance of getting an education, or getting a well-paying job. So many in the newer generation are disadvantaged in a subtler way - their parents may have no knowledge on how to help them get an education, may not be able to give them the extras growing up that they need, or be able to pay the extra expenses needed in college.
This program is geared toward giving young people (women, minorities, veterans) the confidence to try and succeed. Even today, bad teachers in bad schools all too often discourage instead of encourage smart young minorities, who may not have educated parents to help guide them.
I can see people thinking that slavery happened a long time ago, women have had the vote for 100 years now, legal school discrimination ended in the 1960s, they;re sick of hearing about it, etc. But the repercussions are still being felt, and there are more subtle roadblocks to get through.
Example: my friend's daughter is applying for college engineering programs. Through the state university, there are 36 people from tech and other companies conducting interviews for a special program. 35 of them are men. If you've followed recent stories about how some women are treated by male students in some of the best engineering programs in the country (even Stanford), you can see the extra barriers they face.
Thanks for the intelligent and appreciated post. Brings me some perspective. It is just tough for me as a business owner with 600 employees that type of treatment is so far from our core values it is tough for me to realize that we are not always the norm. I also have 3 daughters so women are king in my world.
As a percentage, the number of women studying computer science is falling. The industry is becoming more hostile to women as it transitions from being an industry full of outsiders to an industry full of bros.
LOL! Meanwhile the SJW noose tightens and two programmer dorks that made a "dongle" joke at a tech conference got shitcanned, as did Pax Pickinson for his political leanings.
The feminist oppression fantasy involving "brogrammers" in a frat party/date rape environment is simply untrue, it's some 50-shades-of-grey-level make-believe degeneracy. MOST programmers and software engineers are on the autism spectrum and very much lacking in social ability. The side effect of them living in their heads is that they can write excellent code. Now parasite feminists are trying to invade THEIR space to make the typical maladjusted but brilliant software nerd unemployable due to crimes against politica;l correctness (basically, feminists believe the existence of male software engineers is a crime in itself.)
The most laughable thing about your post is is the assertion that "The industry is becoming more hostile to women" as if that even means anything. This is the same type of vague argumentation as "think of the children" or "no true scotsman..." Basically words devoid of any real meaning or context but successful in manipulating the readers' emotions.
Consider the following: Software engineering is hard. Programming is hard. And boring. And the indutrsy drives its resources like slaves, where 60-80 hour weeks are typical. Software development is not the ritzy/glitzy ego and status booster that women imagine it to be, and to top it off, political correctness in the office means that any amount of human contact/civility these already socially deficient autists may have practiced with the women in the office is no longer done because everyone is terrified of having their career destroyed by another Stage IV Retard like Adria Richards, so whatever fun the women might have had with social interaction is gone.
Basically, you're either ignorant of the facts and just repeat what you're told, or you're mentally ill like all k-selected liberals. Take it from someone who has been in the software industry for years, the reason women do not go into tech is that they don't like it, it doesn't boost status and the hours and pay are shit.
AND NO AMOUNT OF MONEY WASTED IN THESE IDIOTIC SCHEMES TO PROMOTE DIVERSITY WILL CHANGE THE BASIC FACTS.
Comments
Careful
Partly in jest, but the man called me a racist for an idiotic reason.
I get why you wrote it, but you could end up with a temp ban.
http://blog.codinghorror.com/what-can-men-do/
Incidentally, some notes from Phillip Elmer DeWitt's attendance at the Apple shareholder meeting, which was today:
http://fortune.com/2015/03/10/apples-2015-shareholders-meeting-in-31-tweets/
Except that isn’t even remotely close to being the case.
They do.
It has been. To the detriment of everyone else.
Aww, that’s cute.
I am surprised at all you ignorant people.
I like how you're the one levelling accusations of ignorance and in the same paragraph spout non-sequitur drivel about legos vs barbie dolls.
Watch this:
There's REAL SCIENCE to explain why girls play with barbies and kitchen sets, and boys play with toy soldiers, firetrucks and toy tools.
LOL @ needing to enlighten women, implying that preferring social situations, dealing with people face to face and taking care of a household for example are less worthy than crying in the fetal position after an engineering final exam during 3-5 years of hell on earth.
Please go back to the plebbit --- sorry -- reddit hug box. And feel free to make a post on tumblr about how someone disrespected your preferred pronoun or something.
If I discovered I lost out of a job opening because a person less qualified got it just because that person was a woman, or black, or whatever.. I'd sue for discrimination. I'm Hispanic and I don't believe one iota that a person's gender, color, etc.. should be given consideration over another applicant.
I busted my ass to get to where I'm at. I came from a poor, disadvantaged background and against all odds, I made it. I didn't have anyone spoon-feed me an opportunity because of my background. White folks back in the segregated days always did it, now we're doing it in the reverse and somehow that makes it okay? Affirmative action for the corporate world is still discrimination.
I'm all for more women and people of color in the workplace. Absolutely for it, but get them in there because they earned it.
If there aren't enough women in engineering, well then make engineering more attractive to women.
If there aren't enough people of color in college to get those degrees, well then get those programs in place and work on society's social ills to resolve that. There are tons of opportunities for disadvantaged folks to enter college if they choose to make the effort to do it.
Heck... besides white folks, Asians don't seem to have any problem getting into that very desirable area either and last time I checked, asians are a "minority" group too. Why are they able to get to that level and not others given many had the same rough upbringing?
Well said. You don't see any hispanic, east indian or asian marches demanding equality. They just go out and get 'er done.
Currently OS X (Yosemite) and iOS are disasters. That came to be with what APPLE currently has in house. It's time for diversity.
The weather has sucked lately.....it's time for diversity. There's too many mosquitoes in my backyard....it's time for diversity. My mailman always delivers the mail late....it's time for diversity. I hate the pothole at the end of my street.....it's time for diversity. WOW! Diversity really does cure everything!
...
non-sequitur drivel
...
Really? I just quoted how things are in a normal, everyday mall. My statement had no hint of humor in it. Except you wanted to use that fancy word of your's, I suppose. Please go back to the plebbit --- sorry -- reddit hug box. And feel free to make a post on tumblr about how someone disrespected your preferred noun or something.
Real science says people like to eat lot of fatty food. Do you in your right mind eat lot of that 'cos you have seen it on youtube?
Do you think Apple had a good mood and wanted to throw a cheque of $50 million to some random cause?
Real science show people like to do a lot of unhealthy stuff. Governments all around the world spend billions to enlighten people to tell following instincts is not necessarily a good thing.
...
LOL @ needing to enlighten women, implying that preferring social situations, dealing with people face to face and taking care of a household for example are less worthy than crying in the fetal position after an engineering final exam during 3-5 years of hell on earth.
...
Man! This funding nowhere talks about reservations for women, except you like to look at it like that and want everyone to have your view. For once, take off your colored glasses and read the whole article and come back to reply.
The takeaway? Jackson had no business being there, other than to pressure Apple for more handouts. Completely sickening. Screw him.
Is he a shareholder?
Security should have denied him entry to the meeting. He shouldn't have even been there.
Is he a shareholder?
Security should have denied him entry to the meeting. He shouldn't have even been there.
If pressuring, blackmailing or flim-flammery makes one a shareholder, then yes.
Currently OS X (Yosemite) and iOS are disasters. That came to be with what APPLE currently has in house. It's time for diversity.
No.
That came with the Cook era. Quality control went out the window.
Anything a company does in this nature is great. However are minorities and women really that disadvantaged? If a woman was driven are you telling me they would not be able to navigate into tech? Or a black skinned american? I am being serious. I just do not believe that there is a disadvantage if you apply yourself. Thoughts???
One of the problems is that it goes back a long time. It may not seem so relevant in today's society (although the police killings of African-Americans are a reminder that it's not such a rosy world), but think of the long-term problem. Because of rampant discrimination even through the 1980s, the older generation of African-Americans had much less chance of getting an education, or getting a well-paying job. So many in the newer generation are disadvantaged in a subtler way - their parents may have no knowledge on how to help them get an education, may not be able to give them the extras growing up that they need, or be able to pay the extra expenses needed in college.
This program is geared toward giving young people (women, minorities, veterans) the confidence to try and succeed. Even today, bad teachers in bad schools all too often discourage instead of encourage smart young minorities, who may not have educated parents to help guide them.
I can see people thinking that slavery happened a long time ago, women have had the vote for 100 years now, legal school discrimination ended in the 1960s, they;re sick of hearing about it, etc. But the repercussions are still being felt, and there are more subtle roadblocks to get through.
Example: my friend's daughter is applying for college engineering programs. Through the state university, there are 36 people from tech and other companies conducting interviews for a special program. 35 of them are men. If you've followed recent stories about how some women are treated by male students in some of the best engineering programs in the country (even Stanford), you can see the extra barriers they face.
Anything a company does in this nature is great. However are minorities and women really that disadvantaged? If a woman was driven are you telling me they would not be able to navigate into tech? Or a black skinned american? I am being serious. I just do not believe that there is a disadvantage if you apply yourself. Thoughts???
Some people at a company I was hired at awhile ago quit because the sexism was so bad. The same thing happened with employees that are of a minority status. I think the sexism happens more often than racism in the tech world. However, many qualified minorities never get through the door because of things like "ohh we don't share the same vision technologically". The goal of diversity is to have diversity of thinking. If everyone comes from the same background it can be difficult to address up and coming challenges. In the tech world it's always the basement dweller type guy from an upper middle class white family who they are giving the jobs too. If you always hire that person you are going to likely get the same old ideas and no out of the box thinking because everyone is basically the same person but with a different last name.
When a black guy does actually get hired they don't offer up any encouragement at the same levels of everyone else. You get treated like you are stupid and ridiculed and overlooked for promotions and treated like less than the other employees no investment in growing you like they do with other devs etc... Let me tell ya from first hand experience... it can be very draining. I think the best manager I had was a really good female dev manager that didn't actually write code who the company ran off. She could be tough but she helped me grow a lot. My next manager benefitted greatly from her helping me grow and on the next performance review I received a big bonus, salary increase, and got to take on some more responsibility.
Rather than saying ohhh there aren't any qualified black people.... lets be honest you need to hire up the ones who are already in the market and train them to work within your organization...and they can show the others who are up and coming how it's done and help them along. Companies nowadays want a ready made product but in reality you need to invest in the people and train people to be what you need them to be. Throwing $50 million dollars around isn't going to do much of anything. That money will mostly be wasted and have no accountability and oversight. Companies would be better off just hiring and training people to do the jobs they need them to do.
I work in tech and there aren't many women, but I don't think it's because of discrimination. Most of the guys I work with are nice nerdy guys and whenever the rare women comes around she is made to feel welcome.
I think it's because engineers in general have a low social status (unlike say, doctors or movie stars) and women are more sensitive to their social status than men. It's not some kind of biological preference against engineering. Yes, little boys and girls have biological preferences (cowboys vs tea sets) but by the time you reach adulthood, you have passed the age of reason and your mind has taken over. And once that happens there's no reason you can't get a female mind that likes engineering.
Here's a telling graph:
As a percentage, the number of women studying computer science is falling. The industry is becoming more hostile to women as it transitions from being an industry full of outsiders to an industry full of bros.
Yeah right, let's just throw trillions of dollars at it like the stupid people do and watch what happens. So many people here are dense, I can even see the protectionism by many of the white males here. Get over yourselves, you are not the cure to humanity, you are the cancer, get it.
One of the problems is that it goes back a long time. It may not seem so relevant in today's society (although the police killings of African-Americans are a reminder that it's not such a rosy world), but think of the long-term problem. Because of rampant discrimination even through the 1980s, the older generation of African-Americans had much less chance of getting an education, or getting a well-paying job. So many in the newer generation are disadvantaged in a subtler way - their parents may have no knowledge on how to help them get an education, may not be able to give them the extras growing up that they need, or be able to pay the extra expenses needed in college.
This program is geared toward giving young people (women, minorities, veterans) the confidence to try and succeed. Even today, bad teachers in bad schools all too often discourage instead of encourage smart young minorities, who may not have educated parents to help guide them.
I can see people thinking that slavery happened a long time ago, women have had the vote for 100 years now, legal school discrimination ended in the 1960s, they;re sick of hearing about it, etc. But the repercussions are still being felt, and there are more subtle roadblocks to get through.
Example: my friend's daughter is applying for college engineering programs. Through the state university, there are 36 people from tech and other companies conducting interviews for a special program. 35 of them are men. If you've followed recent stories about how some women are treated by male students in some of the best engineering programs in the country (even Stanford), you can see the extra barriers they face.
Thanks for the intelligent and appreciated post. Brings me some perspective. It is just tough for me as a business owner with 600 employees that type of treatment is so far from our core values it is tough for me to realize that we are not always the norm. I also have 3 daughters so women are king in my world.
Here's a telling graph:
As a percentage, the number of women studying computer science is falling. The industry is becoming more hostile to women as it transitions from being an industry full of outsiders to an industry full of bros.
LOL! Meanwhile the SJW noose tightens and two programmer dorks that made a "dongle" joke at a tech conference got shitcanned, as did Pax Pickinson for his political leanings.
The feminist oppression fantasy involving "brogrammers" in a frat party/date rape environment is simply untrue, it's some 50-shades-of-grey-level make-believe degeneracy. MOST programmers and software engineers are on the autism spectrum and very much lacking in social ability. The side effect of them living in their heads is that they can write excellent code. Now parasite feminists are trying to invade THEIR space to make the typical maladjusted but brilliant software nerd unemployable due to crimes against politica;l correctness (basically, feminists believe the existence of male software engineers is a crime in itself.)
The most laughable thing about your post is is the assertion that "The industry is becoming more hostile to women" as if that even means anything. This is the same type of vague argumentation as "think of the children" or "no true scotsman..." Basically words devoid of any real meaning or context but successful in manipulating the readers' emotions.
Consider the following: Software engineering is hard. Programming is hard. And boring. And the indutrsy drives its resources like slaves, where 60-80 hour weeks are typical. Software development is not the ritzy/glitzy ego and status booster that women imagine it to be, and to top it off, political correctness in the office means that any amount of human contact/civility these already socially deficient autists may have practiced with the women in the office is no longer done because everyone is terrified of having their career destroyed by another Stage IV Retard like Adria Richards, so whatever fun the women might have had with social interaction is gone.
Basically, you're either ignorant of the facts and just repeat what you're told, or you're mentally ill like all k-selected liberals. Take it from someone who has been in the software industry for years, the reason women do not go into tech is that they don't like it, it doesn't boost status and the hours and pay are shit.
AND NO AMOUNT OF MONEY WASTED IN THESE IDIOTIC SCHEMES TO PROMOTE DIVERSITY WILL CHANGE THE BASIC FACTS.