So, Thunderbolt is essentially dead - it is the new proprietary firewire. USB-C is the new universal standard for all peripherals.
This means that macbook air and macbook pro and Mac Pro and iMac sans USB-C have been PWNED! All macbook's will eventually be in the same form factor as the newly introduced MacBooks but with different spec.
This could spell trouble for mac product line sales until new refreshes come out supporting USB-C. USB-C is a bigger deal than people think and this puts apple's mac lineup in short term jeopardy.
and the iPhone connector in the future? is this a mini USB-C?
How the hell did you arrive at that conclusion? Can USB-C run a 5K display off a single port? If not, then I don't think you can say TB is dead.
It can, it can be built with 4 lanes with 10Gbps each and some protocols can use all of them. The actual USB protocol doesn't seem to be able to use them all at once per device but Displayport is able to. It gets about 32Gbps after allowing for overhead, which is enough for 5K 30bit at 60Hz.
They use 3.1 gen 1 aka 3.0, which is 5Gbps per lane and the Macbook spec page lists displayport 1.2 compatibility so no 5K yet. It should be enough for a 4K display. It must be 4-lane 5Gbps.
Skylake moves to PCIe4 doubling bandwidth so Apple can make a 5K compatible update at the end of the year.
USB C definitely has the potential to replace Thunderbolt and it wouldn't be a problem if it did as long as it retained compatibility. If it doesn't retain compatibility, I would think that Apple will just switch magsafe for USB C so that a MBP has 3x USB C and 2x TB.
It can, it can be built with 4 lanes with 10Gbps each and some protocols can use all of them. The actual USB protocol doesn't seem to be able to use them all at once per device but Displayport is able to. It gets about 32Gbps after allowing for overhead, which is enough for 5K 30bit at 60Hz.
They use 3.1 gen 1 aka 3.0, which is 5Gbps per lane and the Macbook spec page lists displayport 1.2 compatibility so no 5K yet. It should be enough for a 4K display. It must be 4-lane 5Gbps.
Skylake moves to PCIe4 doubling bandwidth so Apple can make a 5K compatible update at the end of the year.
USB C definitely has the potential to replace Thunderbolt and it wouldn't be a problem if it did as long as it retained compatibility. If it doesn't retain compatibility, I would think that Apple will just switch magsafe for USB C so that a MBP has 3x USB C and 2x TB.
1) Good info. Thanks.
2) I wouldnt think the new MB could support the a 5K display. I would expect that to come with MBPs. I hope the 15" gets all these wonder changes soon. I'll certianly buy a new 15" MBP when it arrives.
Well, I certainly hope that the next macbook pro has a lightening port unlike the new macbook. There are some going points made above. Will the two co-exist and have multiple ports in the near future - I hope so.
Well, I certainly hope that the next macbook pro has a lightening port unlike the new macbook.
Why in the world would you want that? You have to buy new cables or adapters anyway, so why not rather have be universal option that is less expensive to license to cable makers and possibly has a better road map due to the additional pinouts on the connector?
Why in the world would you want that? You have to buy new cables or adapters anyway, so why not rather have be universal option that is less expensive to license to cable makers and possibly has a better road map due to the additional pinouts on the connector?
Marvin made a good point that USB-C would not be able a 4K display if his info is correct. If that is the case, wouldn't a macbook pro also need a lightning port in addition to 1-2 USB-C ports? If USB-C can drive a 4K display, then I agree with you.
Marvin made a good point that USB-C would not be able a 4K display if his info is correct. If that is the case, wouldn't a macbook pro also need a lightning port in addition to 1-2 USB-C ports? If USB-C can drive a 4K display, then I agree with you.
It can drive a 4K display, Apple's Macbook spec page lists 4K support, just not 5K yet but neither can Thunderbolt yet. The above question about Lightning is that Lightning is the port on the iPhone. It sometimes gets mixed up with Thunderbolt and they must have named them to fit together - Thunderbolt and Lightning - but they are completely different ports.
An upcoming Macbook Pro wouldn't necessarily need Thunderbolt on top if they use 10Gbps USB C ports but they aren't going to make it much slimmer so there's no reason to break compatibility for the sake of it. Existing Thunderbolt displays might still work over USB C to mini-displayport but not the ports on it so they'd be best to keep Thunderbolt for a while.
If they switch Magsafe for USB-C, the MBP would then have 2xTB + 3x USB-C, which would allow you to drive at least 5 displays when it's not being charged. If they go with TB3, they have a USB 3 mode so it would also be like having 5 USB ports. That makes me think they might consider dropping the number of ports down to say 1x TB + 3x USB-C. You can daisy chain TB devices and this would push adoption of USB-C more.
USB-C will scale to 40Gbps per device too. USB and TB were always intended to co-exist though.
Marvin made a good point that USB-C would not be able a 4K display if his info is correct. If that is the case, wouldn't a macbook pro also need a lightning port in addition to 1-2 USB-C ports? If USB-C can drive a 4K display, then I agree with you.
1) As he notes again it has the potential to drive 4K, and as for 5K (which seems to be the direction Apple is going) only the iMac with it's unique internal setup can drive that. (Yes, there are some 5K external monitors out there but they need multiple cables and chips to work, which is a nonstarter for Apple.)
2) If Apple includes DP signaling over the USB-C port interface then there is no need for TB. After all, the display signaling over TB is DP. What we need for 5K is DP1.3, which sounds doable in the not to distant future. Perhaps that's why the 15" MBP didn't receive any attention last week, but the 13" MBP did. Can we expect the 15" MBP to be updated with some expensive and/or still hard to come by components this summer at WWDC?
Comments
How the hell did you arrive at that conclusion? Can USB-C run a 5K display off a single port? If not, then I don't think you can say TB is dead.
[URL=http://mashable.com/2015/03/15/apple-watch-how-its-made/]http://mashable.com/2015/03/15/apple-watch-how-its-made/[/URL]
Sorry if the link is not correct. Long time reader, 1st post.
It can, it can be built with 4 lanes with 10Gbps each and some protocols can use all of them. The actual USB protocol doesn't seem to be able to use them all at once per device but Displayport is able to. It gets about 32Gbps after allowing for overhead, which is enough for 5K 30bit at 60Hz.
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150106006266/en/DisplayLink-Shows-5K-Display-Connectivity-Single-USB
It turns out that Apple isn't using version 3.1 gen 2 ports though:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/03/explaining-the-usb-3-1-gen-1-port-in-the-retina-macbook/
They use 3.1 gen 1 aka 3.0, which is 5Gbps per lane and the Macbook spec page lists displayport 1.2 compatibility so no 5K yet. It should be enough for a 4K display. It must be 4-lane 5Gbps.
Skylake moves to PCIe4 doubling bandwidth so Apple can make a 5K compatible update at the end of the year.
USB C definitely has the potential to replace Thunderbolt and it wouldn't be a problem if it did as long as it retained compatibility. If it doesn't retain compatibility, I would think that Apple will just switch magsafe for USB C so that a MBP has 3x USB C and 2x TB.
1) Good info. Thanks.
2) I wouldnt think the new MB could support the a 5K display. I would expect that to come with MBPs. I hope the 15" gets all these wonder changes soon. I'll certianly buy a new 15" MBP when it arrives.
Well, I certainly hope that the next macbook pro has a lightening port unlike the new macbook. There are some going points made above. Will the two co-exist and have multiple ports in the near future - I hope so.
Why in the world would you want that? You have to buy new cables or adapters anyway, so why not rather have be universal option that is less expensive to license to cable makers and possibly has a better road map due to the additional pinouts on the connector?
Why in the world would you want that? You have to buy new cables or adapters anyway, so why not rather have be universal option that is less expensive to license to cable makers and possibly has a better road map due to the additional pinouts on the connector?
Marvin made a good point that USB-C would not be able a 4K display if his info is correct. If that is the case, wouldn't a macbook pro also need a lightning port in addition to 1-2 USB-C ports? If USB-C can drive a 4K display, then I agree with you.
It can drive a 4K display, Apple's Macbook spec page lists 4K support, just not 5K yet but neither can Thunderbolt yet. The above question about Lightning is that Lightning is the port on the iPhone. It sometimes gets mixed up with Thunderbolt and they must have named them to fit together - Thunderbolt and Lightning - but they are completely different ports.
An upcoming Macbook Pro wouldn't necessarily need Thunderbolt on top if they use 10Gbps USB C ports but they aren't going to make it much slimmer so there's no reason to break compatibility for the sake of it. Existing Thunderbolt displays might still work over USB C to mini-displayport but not the ports on it so they'd be best to keep Thunderbolt for a while.
If they switch Magsafe for USB-C, the MBP would then have 2xTB + 3x USB-C, which would allow you to drive at least 5 displays when it's not being charged. If they go with TB3, they have a USB 3 mode so it would also be like having 5 USB ports. That makes me think they might consider dropping the number of ports down to say 1x TB + 3x USB-C. You can daisy chain TB devices and this would push adoption of USB-C more.
USB-C will scale to 40Gbps per device too. USB and TB were always intended to co-exist though.
1) As he notes again it has the potential to drive 4K, and as for 5K (which seems to be the direction Apple is going) only the iMac with it's unique internal setup can drive that. (Yes, there are some 5K external monitors out there but they need multiple cables and chips to work, which is a nonstarter for Apple.)
2) If Apple includes DP signaling over the USB-C port interface then there is no need for TB. After all, the display signaling over TB is DP. What we need for 5K is DP1.3, which sounds doable in the not to distant future. Perhaps that's why the 15" MBP didn't receive any attention last week, but the 13" MBP did. Can we expect the 15" MBP to be updated with some expensive and/or still hard to come by components this summer at WWDC?