Study: 6% of iPhone 6 owners have used touchless Apple Pay in stores, 85% have not

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  • Reply 61 of 92
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,148member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    You naled it.



    My first thought was ... then ?Pay has 85% more market to grow but like you I suspect a lot of those folks never will or will have to be coached.



    I always get cornered at parties or by neighbors in the street for help with Apple stuff. The St. Paddy party was no different this week. One lady was frustrated she could no longer open any folders since updating her old Mac to a later OS X as 'as soon as she opens a folder on the dock it flies up contents and then springs back before she can even see what's in there'. She had given up trying to use her Mac since this started.

     

    Honestly, this kind of ignorance pisses me off. It's excusable if you're an older person or averse to technology. But when you're part of the facebook generation, buy a 5S/6, and are too fucking lazy to spend a few min looking up the main features, at least the beneficial ones in day to day use, there's no excuse. A fried bought a 5S a week ago and he's been texting me the most basic Qs, without wanting to invest a few min of his own time actually tapping icons, investigating settings, or looking stuff up.  Eventually I asked him if he's using Touch ID, and of course he was like "whats that? Oh it can do that?? Cool! Can you come over and help me set it up??" I should start charging for this shit. 

  • Reply 62 of 92
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,445member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

     

    I use Apple Pay about once a week., but I totally believe these stats. 

     

    There's a local grocery store in my town that has the NFC terminals, and it does work, but they don't have an ApplePay logo and they don't promote it at all. I've just been holding my iPhone up to every terminal I come across to see where it works and where it doesn't. I've been using my iPhone to pay for purchases at this store since ApplePay went live, yet just last week a cashier there saw me use it and said "that's cool -- that's the first time i've seen somebody use that!" I suspect that cashier has a far more representative view of what happens among normal people than I do. 

     

    Another anecdote -- my GF has an iPhone 6+. She tried to set up ApplePay once, but she ran into some problems with her bank. She hasn't tried again. I keep meaning to set it up for her, but there's always something more important to do. And it's not like her credit card doesn't work. 

     

    I think the bottom line is... ApplePay represents a small, marginal increase in convenience, once you've got it set up and if you shop at merchants that accept it. But the inconvenience of setup and the scarcity of merchants really limit usage. Over time I think this will improve. Normal people will see people like me using it and be more inclined to try it themselves. Merchant acceptance will grow. Apple just needs to be patient (and I'm sure they will be). 


    There's another issue.  I'm able to use ApplePay at my local chain supermarket, but the terminal still makes you approve the amount and sign.  And since the terminal doesn't always recognize the NFC right away, it's actually not any more efficient to use ApplePay than to swipe a card - it just presumably gives you a bit more security.

     

    I was also in a pharmacy recently and the cashier didn't know whether ApplePay was supported although it was obvious to me that the terminal did have NFC. The iPhone did recognize the terminal and asked me to use Touch ID.  But the transaction didn't go through - the cashier said the payment was rejected.   So I swiped my card instead and then quickly double-checked my account to make sure I wasn't billed twice (I wasn't).   

     

    Also, it's unclear to me whether the NFC is supposed to wake up the iPhone on its own.   IMO, it should, but it doesn't seem to.   

     

    And while I was able to setup most of credit cards quite easily, one of my Business credit cards was not accepted, even though it's from the same bank as another card that was accepted.

     

    So until these issues are resolved and until it's ubiquitous (and works at ATM's as well), you really can't leave your credit/debit cards at home.   And that would include all restaurants implementing it using portable terminals.   And only in the very best of implementations is it more efficient.   So I think it's got a long way to go before both merchants and consumers will want to use it en masse.   As far as consumers go, the best advertisement for them will be seeing other consumers use it and saying to themselves, "I can do that with my phone?"

     

    One of the things I think Apple should do is to create an Apple Pay sticker that goes on the door of retailers just like the AMEX, Discover, MasterCard and VISA stickers do, so you know who accepts it.   Once it's recognized that Apple Pay drives sales (which is really the purpose of any credit card), more merchants will adopt it quicker, IMO.    

     

    Another possibility would be for Apple to create some kind of "frequent flyer program" independent of any points you get from the credit/debit cards themselves.   Because there's not enough convenience improvement to make people really want to use it as it currently is.  

  • Reply 63 of 92
    I'd love to use Apple Pay. My obstacle is my credit union. Apple needs to get those 700 off the waiting list fast!
  • Reply 64 of 92
    old-wizold-wiz Posts: 194member
    I would probably use it,but my CC doesn't support it and they have no plans to do so. Sigh.
  • Reply 65 of 92
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,354member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    No, and you can't use ?Pay online after you get an ?Watch.



    Remember that ?Pay requires at least the NFC chip to be in the device in which it's used. This is because the secure element for all your secure card storage is there, not in iOS in the Flash NAND. The older iPhones are required for ?Pay only in setup because they 1) have a camera as well as a nice virtual keyboard in which to input the card data, and 2) have internet access so your card setup can be authenticated by your bank and you be given back a representational card number to be stored in NFC's secure element.











    PS: Because the iPhones is required for setup of ?Pay on ?Watch one might wonder why you can't simply use ?Watch to pay for in-app items on your iPhone via that same tether. If it's good enough for setting up ?Pay it should be good enough for the apps, right? Yes, but remember that ?Pay setup is really something you do once so the risk of that data being intercepted is low, not to mention it has to be done in order to set up your card(s). With an in-app ?Pay payment you're opening up the potential risk more frequently but more importantly the success of the iPhone and cost of ?Watch means that there will likely be only a small number of pre-iPhone 6 series and ?Watch wearers, and only for a short time, so it's ultimately a moot point. At least, that's how I would have justified it if I were in charge of this at Apple, even before getting into any logistical and security issues regarding how ?Pay APIs within apps can be accessed.

    Got it, thx.

  • Reply 66 of 92
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,354member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

     

     

    Honestly, this kind of ignorance pisses me off. It's excusable if you're an older person or averse to technology. But when you're part of the facebook generation, buy a 5S/6, and are too fucking lazy to spend a few min looking up the main features, at least the beneficial ones in day to day use, there's no excuse. A fried bought a 5S a week ago and he's been texting me the most basic Qs, without wanting to invest a few min of his own time actually tapping icons, investigating settings, or looking stuff up.  Eventually I asked him if he's using Touch ID, and of course he was like "whats that? Oh it can do that?? Cool! Can you come over and help me set it up??" I should start charging for this shit. 


    And the people are shocked, SHOCKED I say, when people are duped into buying stuff that doesn't work; or sending money to their uncle in the Ivory Coast. Yet...every US high school student is required to be able to cite the date of the Battle of Hastings, but has no clue about how to fill out a 1040.

     

    People. Are. Idiots. And they are driving a car right behind you.

  • Reply 67 of 92
    mystigomystigo Posts: 120member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    Discover, understandably. Credit Unions, that's going to take some time to get all of them but they should be coming. But BoA not accepting it for your card? What's unique about it? Is there another bank involved which is why it's not accepted?



    It's a corporate card (It's a corporation I own so I guess that makes it my card). Bank of America does not support corporate cards. Anyway, that's the sum total of credit cards I have, so for now I am out of luck.

  • Reply 68 of 92
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    mystigo wrote: »

    It's a corporate card (It's a corporation I own so I guess that makes it my card). Bank of America does not support corporate cards. Anyway, that's the sum total of credit cards I have, so for now I am out of luck.

    Yeah, that sucks, but I think BoA will add pre-paid, corporate, and small business cards to the list in the not to distant future.

    Here's a list of what is currently available:
  • Reply 69 of 92

    It always amazes me when people are over critical of a solution that is in its infancy.  Apple Pay will have issues here and there.  There is a learning curve as well for merchants.  Axle Rose once said, "we need a little patience...yeah...yeah...just a little patience...yeah...yeah...come on patience...I've been walking the streets at night...just tryin' to get it right.  It's hard to breath with so many around, you know I don't like being stuck in the ground and the streets don't change but maybe their names...I ain't got time for the pain cause I need you."

  • Reply 70 of 92
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,429member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eightzero View Post

     

    I am planning on using my iPhone 5s with Apple Pay when I get an Apple Watch, but can I use ApplePay online now? 


    You can if you have one of the devices which support it:

     

    iPhone 6/6+

    iPad Air 2

    iPad Mini 3

     

    The ?Watch does not appear to support it via your iPhone for no obvious reason. 

     

    However, the fact these iPads can handle ?Pay at all makes me wonder why you can't also use them to set up your ?Watch on them, without the need for an iPhone. Many people have the cellular versions of these devices and carry those around with them in backpacks, briefcases and purses ... seems like everything but the explicit phone calls would be relevant to these devices as well. I would expect them to support it in the future, as well as Macs.

  • Reply 71 of 92
    konqerrorkonqerror Posts: 685member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

     

    There's another issue.  I'm able to use ApplePay at my local chain supermarket, but the terminal still makes you approve the amount and sign.  And since the terminal doesn't always recognize the NFC right away, it's actually not any more efficient to use ApplePay than to swipe a card - it just presumably gives you a bit more security.


     

    Wait until you have to use chip card in October, or go try it at Wal-Mart today. It's a whole lot clunkier. Open wallet, put card in reader, stand with your wallet open until checkout finishes, stare at terminal during authorization, approve amount and sign, stare at terminal until it says finished, take card out, put back in wallet. Even worse is when you're at a store where you have to put the bags in the cart yourself. Do you put your wallet away or leave it on the counter? This is why Europe suddenly has a love affair with contactless.

  • Reply 72 of 92

    A two cent sticker that goes on the payment terminal will make the usage of ApplePay go up 1000%.   

  • Reply 73 of 92
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,445member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by konqerror View Post

     

     

    Wait until you have to use chip card in October, or go try it at Wal-Mart today. It's a whole lot clunkier. Open wallet, put card in reader, stand with your wallet open until checkout finishes, stare at terminal during authorization, approve amount and sign, stare at terminal until it says finished, take card out, put back in wallet. Even worse is when you're at a store where you have to put the bags in the cart yourself. Do you put your wallet away or leave it on the counter? This is why Europe suddenly has a love affair with contactless.


    One of my cards is a chip card and it doesn't seem to work any differently than before it had the chip, but maybe that's because the stores I shop in don't have new terminals as yet.  

     

    Besides, I don't see how "Open wallet, put card in reader, stand with your wallet open until checkout finishes, stare at terminal during authorization, approve amount and sign, stare at terminal until it says finished, take card out, put back in wallet" is any different from

    "Take phone out of pocket, make active, put near reader, press the touch button, stare at terminal to await confirmation, confirm amount, stare at terminal to await signature request, sign terminal, put phone back in pocket."

     

    Are you saying that with a chip card, you have to put the card in the reader while you're being rung up and leave it there until it's finished?   Why would that be?  I have swiped my card while they're ringing me up, but I was able to put my card away after I swiped. 

     

    As for Walmart, that's not a store I will ever be shopping in.   I've been in a Walmart exactly twice and was unimpressed.   While there were a few items at big discounts, any product that I would actually consider buying, whether electronics or food, such as fruit juice, was actually higher priced than at my local supermarket.   Thankfully, there are no Walmarts within the confines of New York City, but i have a feeling that's going to change in the not-too-distant future.   

  • Reply 74 of 92
    konqerrorkonqerror Posts: 685member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

     

    Are you saying that with a chip card, you have to put the card in the reader while you're being rung up and leave it there until it's finished?   Why would that be?  I have swiped my card while they're ringing me up, but I was able to put my card away after I swiped. 


     

    Exactly. You have to understand for "offline" transactions, the chip card stands in for the bank computer, handling credit limits, fraud detection, etc. Therefore, the chip needs to synchronize transactions, credit balances, etc. with the bank.

     

    The card itself decides whether a transaction can be conducted offline or online; this means the card needs to know the amount of the purchase before continuing. The chip also needs to know whether a transaction was completed, so that it can subtract it from its running credit limit counter. This means the card needs to stay in the reader from the beginning until the end of the transaction.

     

    Instead of a Wal-Mart rant I didn't read, you could go to Wal-Mart and educate yourself of the future of credit cards.

  • Reply 75 of 92
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,445member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eightzero View Post

     

    And the people are shocked, SHOCKED I say, when people are duped into buying stuff that doesn't work; or sending money to their uncle in the Ivory Coast. Yet...every US high school student is required to be able to cite the date of the Battle of Hastings, but has no clue about how to fill out a 1040.

     

    People. Are. Idiots. And they are driving a car right behind you.




    I can assure you that most U.S. high school students have absolutely no idea what the Battle of Hastings is or when it took place.  I'd be very surprised if even 10% knew this.    Most can't even tell you the decade of the Civil War or who we fought in WW II.    I think a fairly large percentage couldn't tell you the founding date of the U.S. or exactly what it is we celebrate on Independence Day.    And forget about the 1040, my bet is that half of U.S. high school students couldn't balance their own checkbooks, if they had one.  Etc.

     

    In 2011, Newsweek gave the official U.S. citizenship test to 1000 U.S. citizens and 29% couldn't name the VP, 73% couldn't define why we fought the Cold War, 44% couldn't define the Bill of Rights and 6% couldn't even circle Independence Day on a calendar.    A November, 2013 Gallup poll revealed that 46% of Americans believe the biblical account that God created humans in their current form less than 10,000 years ago.    A 2007 Gallup poll claimed that 68% of Republicans, 40% of Democrats and 37% of Independents do not believe in evolution.  I bet the numbers have gotten larger since then.

     

    I wouldn't worry too much about whether people know about every single function of their smartphone.  I'd worry a lot more about everything else.   Is there any wonder that we elect the idiots who occupy Congress?    

     

    I can't copy the link, but using Bing, search for Jay Leno Jaywalking and choose "Best of Jaywalking".    I don't know whether to laugh or cry.   I bet all of these idiots think of themselves as informed people.   And at least a fair percentage of them attended college. 

  • Reply 76 of 92
    Apple pay works awesome and being in the mobile industry for over ten years I would say apple pay is the most secure and convenient mobile payment platform made. I use it were ever it is available that's the main reason why cvs lost my business and Walgreens gained mine and many of my friends and family. Just think about this one example when it comes to Apple pay vs. using your physical card. I go to pay for something with my card and the sales rep takes my card to swipe it within a few moments of them turning their back or walking away depending on what type of location they are at a simple press of a button on their phone or watch or the many other mobile devices out there with built in cameras. They now have the front and back of your card all the info they need to steal your info and maybe even the info off your ID if they ask to see it. Where Apple pay it only shows the last 4 of my card and it's for my reference because when you use Apple pay its tied to a separate number set up through Apple and approved by your bank or credit union. And can only be used once it is approved by them and with your finger print. If you loose your phone and hopefully smart and had a passcode and or at least find my iPhone you can remote lock or wipe the device and boom your cards and personal info wiped off the phone no worries. Where you loose your card or wallet have fun canceling all your cards and waiting for new ones to come in the mail. But that's just one way I view it to each his own but keep up the awesome work Apple I've been a fan and loyal customer for the last 12 years and will never walk away
  • Reply 77 of 92
    xixoxixo Posts: 422member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    Assuming you're in the US, that's interesting since it seems over 99% of covered accounts are support(ed) at this time.

    My credit union has announced that its coming - nothing yet. Not everyone uses big banks.
  • Reply 78 of 92
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    xixo wrote: »
    My credit union has announced that its coming - nothing yet. Not everyone uses big banks.

    Sure, but those seem to coming aboard quickly. I'm certainly impressed by how quickly ?Pay is being adopted.
  • Reply 79 of 92
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,218moderator
    rob55 wrote: »
    I've witnessed some of this myself. Just last week, I was talking to a colleague when I noticed that she had a new iPhone 6. I asked her when she bought it, and she said she got it a month or two after release. I then noticed that she kept using her pin to unlock her phone. I asked why she wasn't using TouchID, and I got the same aforementioned blank stare. And the funniest thing was, a couple of her fingerprints were already set up. She apparently set them up when she got the phone, but seemed to have forgotten. I didn't even bother asking at that point, if she was using ApplePay. Doh! 

    I imagine some people assume complexity equates to better security too e.g typing 4 digits nobody knows vs just pressing the home button. Apple needs to spell it out to people that their pin code is insecure with a warning the way that password boxes do.

    The iPhone only came out about 6 months ago, even a single digit percentage of new iPhone users is millions of people. They sold 74.5m iPhones up until January, it will have easily topped 100m by now.

    Some people might be wary of putting cards into their phone because of in-app purchases. They don't want to be charged for things accidentally. It should be spelled out somewhere that it's to improve security and every new user should have to read through a single page that says using cards directly is insecure, explain why and what ?Pay does to improve security.
  • Reply 80 of 92
    dcj001dcj001 Posts: 301member
    [QUOTE] 6% of iPhone 6 owners have used touchless Apple Pay [/QUOTE]

    Touchless Apple Pay?

    How does one use Apple Pay without touching an iPhone?
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