It's better to remain a shareholder and make your opinion heard. Don't you agree?
It's funny...when someone suggests Apple should stop doing business in the states that have these laws they're told that's not the way to go about. Yet at the same time they tell people who don't like Cook making Apple more and more political to sell their stock. Seems like a double standard to me.
A private business owner should be able to pick and choose whomever they want to conduct their business. I think it's wiser to be open and accepting of everyone's business, but freedom of association also means freedom to not associate.
THAT IS NOT THE WAY THE LAW WORKS!
Learn something about the caselaw concerning this type of thing.
Some of you DO know that you can have both, right? Religious "freedom" AND freedom from its use as a discrinatory mechanism.
None of this is an issue for your neighbour north of the border. We have folks of all sexual orientations here, all religious persuasions, and all colours and ethnicities. The practice of religion - whatever it might be - is open and accepted as a facet of the diversity Canadian culture.
However, the buck stops where individual rights to access services - private or personal - are concerned, as they relate to discriminatory pracitces based on gender, sexual orientation, and so on.
People understand this. Always have. It's for the collective good and it's ingrained culturally that since we're all in this together, we need to make room for each other.
But this is probably difficult where you're born into and conditioned by a culture that places a premium on "the other vs. me", separateness, and little to no concept of the collective good.
I can seperate the stock price and Tim Cooks personal opinions
But this isn't Tim Cook's personal opinion. This editorial was written on behalf of Apple the company. If it had just been Tim Cook private citizen I wouldn't care (even though I still wouldn't agree with what he said).
You have a sadly misguided notion of "religious freedom". Forcing everyone to behave according to your own personal religious beliefs--for instance, tossing someone out of your restaurant because they are gay--is not "freedom", it's fascism. I would also be shocked if any business owner who justified such an action really lived according to beliefs--eg, denying service to divorced individuals, or people who work on the Sabbath. It's simply an excuse to discriminate against the lgbt community because of your closemindedness. For the record, I wouldn't want some bigoted baker forced to make my wedding cake--but I also don't want to suffer the embarrassment of being asked to leave a restaurant or hotel simply because I'm gay. If these business owners are so proud of their bigotry, let's require them to post a big sign out front so I know which businesses to avoid (as was suggested in Oklahoma, right before they realized how stupid this entire line of thinking was).
And making same-sex marriage legal doesn't mean you have to marry someone of the same sex--and if you feel that your own opposite-sex marriage is somehow devalued or threatened, perhaps you should seek counseling.
Why do religious people think that marriage started with them? It's a wee bit older than that. The number of insane posts leads me to believe that either a) half the people in America are nuts or b) the USofA is a nation of satirists.
Marriage was instituted in the bible, by God. Who also said that homosexuality is wrong; in the same book.
I'm patiently awaiting Apple to stop selling their products in the 19 states that have religious freedom laws. And I assume too then that Apple will move its offices from Austin to a state that doesn't have this so-called bigoted law? Put your money where your mouth is Tim.
And here i was thinking that the crusades were over! Lets love thy brother as long as they have my same mentality as me. Most of the greatest leaders in history have been homosexuals. People are acting as if homosexualism is somthing new, when homosexualism has been around for like ever. And now we have somebody acting as if homosexualism was the "gateway sin" we are all going to become this even more sinfull society because of homosexuals. Relogion is used more as a weapon for destruction then a tool for helping others. People should try and practice the positive side of religious techings. I do not agree with homosexuality, is against my catholic beleives, but i dont descriminate them either because is also against my believes as well. I try to live a positive life and influence others in a good way without shoving my own belives in their throats. My point is be the best person possible in the best possible way. Isnt that what religion teaches?
The Indiana Chamber of Commerce was narrow in its opposition to the religious freedom law in a statement earlier this week, with its CEO Kevin Brinegar saying it was unnecessary—religious freedom was already protected by state law—and there was risk it could expose businesses to lawsuits over religious belief claims from employees.
Quote:
But other voices from the business community went further. Columbus, Indiana-based Cummins, the world's largest diesel engine maker—which has been among the nation's most outspoken business voices against LGBT discrimination statutes—publicly opposed the new law in strong terms, fearing a weakened hand for corporations based in Indiana when trying to lure top talent to the state.
"We're disappointed with the passage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act," said a Cummins spokesman. "Cummins believes it's bad for business and bad for Indiana and sends the message that the state is unwelcoming." He added, "We are a global company in a competitive environment and it could hinder our ability to attract and retain top talent.
Quote:
Salesforce.com's Marketing Cloud division CEO Scott McCorkle wrote in a recent letter speaking out against the act, "Our success is fundamentally based on our ability to attract and retain the best and most diverse pool of highly skilled employees, regardless of gender, religious affiliation, ethnicity or sexual orientation." Salesforce bought Indianapolis-based marketing software company ExactTarget in 2013.
Quote:
Yelp CEO Jeremy Stoppelman posted an open letter on Yelp's official blog stating that it was "unconscionable to imagine that Yelp would create, maintain, or expand a significant business presence in any state that encouraged discrimination by businesses against our employees, or consumers at large."
Quote:
PayPal co-founder Max Levchin tweeted that what was happening in Indiana, no matter how it was "dressed up" was discrimination and "pretty unbelievable."
Quote:
The organizers of Gen Con, a gaming conference that is among the marquee events of the year in the city, sent a letter to Gov. Pence this week stating that it might move in future years if he signed the bill.
Again if you are not owning stock to make money you are doing it wrong.
Do you appreciate that Cook's opinions will have a material impact on sales if he manages to offend a large number of customers or potential customers? You keep insisting its all about money. Well, beliefs translate into buying decisions.
I'm patiently waiting for Tim to call out Islam to reform their religious freedoms. You know, when the execute homosexuals? I'm sure he's very concerned about that too.
He'd probably say something sensible about getting the US fixed first.
Do you appreciate that Cook's opinions will have a material impact on sales if he manages to offend a large number of customers or potential customers? You keep insisting its all about money. Well, beliefs translate into buying decisions.
So, you feel the same way about the NFL, the NBA, the NCAA, Walmart, and all the corporations I listed above, not to mention the ones I didn't list, right?
Do you really think companies should stay out of political matters? Tell that to the Koch brothers, or Chik-fil-A, Hobby Lobby, or any company that criticizes Cuba, China, Iran, etc for their human rights abuses.
Personally, I believe that free speech should be encouraged and protected, especially when it's inclusionary and positive.
Don't conservatives ever tire of being on the wrong side of history? Slavery, anti-women's rights, anti civil rights, anti-gay, anti immigrant- don't they see that the natural arc of history is for an expansion of human rights? It's also laughable how many religious bigots point to the bible for their "one man, one woman" conception of marriage. That, in fact, is the exception in the Bible- Biblical marriage includes arranged marriages, women purchased through dowries, marriages with slaves, polygamy, incest, pedophilia, etc, etc. Most Biblical scholars think Mary was 15 or 16 when she gave birth to Jesus.
I don't think Biblical marriage means what bigoted conservatives think it means.
Do you appreciate that Cook's opinions will have a material impact on sales if he manages to offend a large number of customers or potential customers? You keep insisting its all about money. Well, beliefs translate into buying decisions.
Who's to say that his stand won't generate more sales?
If I was gay and were using an Android phone I'd probably be influenced to switch to Apple after hearing what Cook said.
From a purely net sales gain perspective, I am not sure, because numbers I've seen say that we're talking about 3-4% of the population. If that.
Our two views are explicitly different in one particular way: You're saying that people should shut up, while I'm doing the opposite.
If you don't believe that Cook's right to free speech is just as important as yours or anyone else's, then just say that. If you do, then what argument are you making, exactly?
Comments
It's funny...when someone suggests Apple should stop doing business in the states that have these laws they're told that's not the way to go about. Yet at the same time they tell people who don't like Cook making Apple more and more political to sell their stock. Seems like a double standard to me.
A private business owner should be able to pick and choose whomever they want to conduct their business. I think it's wiser to be open and accepting of everyone's business, but freedom of association also means freedom to not associate.
THAT IS NOT THE WAY THE LAW WORKS!
Learn something about the caselaw concerning this type of thing.
None of this is an issue for your neighbour north of the border. We have folks of all sexual orientations here, all religious persuasions, and all colours and ethnicities. The practice of religion - whatever it might be - is open and accepted as a facet of the diversity Canadian culture.
However, the buck stops where individual rights to access services - private or personal - are concerned, as they relate to discriminatory pracitces based on gender, sexual orientation, and so on.
People understand this. Always have. It's for the collective good and it's ingrained culturally that since we're all in this together, we need to make room for each other.
But this is probably difficult where you're born into and conditioned by a culture that places a premium on "the other vs. me", separateness, and little to no concept of the collective good.
But this isn't Tim Cook's personal opinion. This editorial was written on behalf of Apple the company. If it had just been Tim Cook private citizen I wouldn't care (even though I still wouldn't agree with what he said).
You have a sadly misguided notion of "religious freedom". Forcing everyone to behave according to your own personal religious beliefs--for instance, tossing someone out of your restaurant because they are gay--is not "freedom", it's fascism. I would also be shocked if any business owner who justified such an action really lived according to beliefs--eg, denying service to divorced individuals, or people who work on the Sabbath. It's simply an excuse to discriminate against the lgbt community because of your closemindedness. For the record, I wouldn't want some bigoted baker forced to make my wedding cake--but I also don't want to suffer the embarrassment of being asked to leave a restaurant or hotel simply because I'm gay. If these business owners are so proud of their bigotry, let's require them to post a big sign out front so I know which businesses to avoid (as was suggested in Oklahoma, right before they realized how stupid this entire line of thinking was).
And making same-sex marriage legal doesn't mean you have to marry someone of the same sex--and if you feel that your own opposite-sex marriage is somehow devalued or threatened, perhaps you should seek counseling.
I am holding Apple to make money, but I also first got interested in Apple because of their philosophy on design and computing.
Tim is publicly exercising his personal beliefs, but using his position as head of Apple to draw attention to his pet issues.
Ah so that's why Cook doesn't speak out on China's appauling human rights record (including treatment of gays). It's all about making money,...
Marriage was instituted in the bible, by God. Who also said that homosexuality is wrong; in the same book.
I'm patiently awaiting Apple to stop selling their products in the 19 states that have religious freedom laws. And I assume too then that Apple will move its offices from Austin to a state that doesn't have this so-called bigoted law? Put your money where your mouth is Tim.
Ridiculous.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102538002
But other voices from the business community went further. Columbus, Indiana-based Cummins, the world's largest diesel engine maker—which has been among the nation's most outspoken business voices against LGBT discrimination statutes—publicly opposed the new law in strong terms, fearing a weakened hand for corporations based in Indiana when trying to lure top talent to the state.
"We're disappointed with the passage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act," said a Cummins spokesman. "Cummins believes it's bad for business and bad for Indiana and sends the message that the state is unwelcoming." He added, "We are a global company in a competitive environment and it could hinder our ability to attract and retain top talent.
And etc.
Do you appreciate that Cook's opinions will have a material impact on sales if he manages to offend a large number of customers or potential customers? You keep insisting its all about money. Well, beliefs translate into buying decisions.
I'm patiently waiting for Tim to call out Islam to reform their religious freedoms. You know, when the execute homosexuals? I'm sure he's very concerned about that too.
He'd probably say something sensible about getting the US fixed first.
Do you appreciate that Cook's opinions will have a material impact on sales if he manages to offend a large number of customers or potential customers? You keep insisting its all about money. Well, beliefs translate into buying decisions.
So, you feel the same way about the NFL, the NBA, the NCAA, Walmart, and all the corporations I listed above, not to mention the ones I didn't list, right?
...
Till then take it like a man or sell your stock.
Personally, I believe that free speech should be encouraged and protected, especially when it's inclusionary and positive.
Don't conservatives ever tire of being on the wrong side of history? Slavery, anti-women's rights, anti civil rights, anti-gay, anti immigrant- don't they see that the natural arc of history is for an expansion of human rights? It's also laughable how many religious bigots point to the bible for their "one man, one woman" conception of marriage. That, in fact, is the exception in the Bible- Biblical marriage includes arranged marriages, women purchased through dowries, marriages with slaves, polygamy, incest, pedophilia, etc, etc. Most Biblical scholars think Mary was 15 or 16 when she gave birth to Jesus.
I don't think Biblical marriage means what bigoted conservatives think it means.
From a purely net sales gain perspective, I am not sure, because numbers I've seen say that we're talking about 3-4% of the population. If that.
Our two views are explicitly different in one particular way: You're saying that people should shut up, while I'm doing the opposite.
If you don't believe that Cook's right to free speech is just as important as yours or anyone else's, then just say that. If you do, then what argument are you making, exactly?
Well put.