From a purely net sales gain perspective, I am not sure, because numbers I've seen say that we're talking about 3-4% of the population. If that.
Are you talking about how many people are gay? Because it's larger than that.
But that's not the question. I'm not gay and I'm completely against this on every level and will support anyone who is against it (well, not Walmart, but that's a different story altogether).
Do you really think companies should stay out of political matters? Tell that to the Koch brothers, or Chik-fil-A, Hobby Lobby, or any company that criticizes Cuba, China, Iran, etc for their human rights abuses.
Personally, I believe that free speech should be encouraged and protected, especially when it's inclusionary and positive.
Don't conservatives ever tire of being on the wrong side of history? Slavery, anti-women's rights, anti civil rights, anti-gay, anti immigrant- don't they see that the natural arc of history is for an expansion of human rights? It's also laughable how many religious bigots point to the bible for their "one man, one woman" conception of marriage. That, in fact, is the exception in the Bible- Biblical marriage includes arranged marriages, women purchased through dowries, marriages with slaves, polygamy, incest, pedophilia, etc, etc. Most Biblical scholars think Mary was 15 or 16 when she gave birth to Jesus.
I don't think Biblical marriage means what bigoted conservatives think it means.
Cook is choosing his battles. He knows he has no power to change China's policies but he can make a difference in the USA
Nah, he speaking out when it's totally safe to do so. Believe me if Cook or the board was worried about shareholder reaction he wouldn't be doing it, period. Hence why Apple isn't pulling business from states that have these laws. But hey this editorial is good PR for Cook. I mean heck, Fortune just named him the worlds greatest leader.
Do you really think companies should stay out of political matters? Tell that to the Koch brothers, or Chik-fil-A, Hobby Lobby, or any company that criticizes Cuba, China, Iran, etc for their human rights abuses.
Personally, I believe that free speech should be encouraged and protected, especially when it's inclusionary and positive.
Don't conservatives ever tire of being on the wrong side of history? Slavery, anti-women's rights, anti civil rights, anti-gay, anti immigrant- don't they see that the natural arc of history is for an expansion of human rights? It's also laughable how many religious bigots point to the bible for their "one man, one woman" conception of marriage. That, in fact, is the exception in the Bible- Biblical marriage includes arranged marriages, women purchased through dowries, marriages with slaves, polygamy, incest, pedophilia, etc, etc. Most Biblical scholars think Mary was 15 or 16 when she gave birth to Jesus.
I don't think Biblical marriage means what bigoted conservatives think it means.
As I recall, it was only after it became politically expedient did Barack Obama suddenly supported legalizing gay marriage.
The scenarios you've laid out are simplistic and partisan, which has not been the case historically.
Well, it is believed that Joseph was much older than Mary when she married him at the age of 12. Wouldn't a 20-30 year old marrying a 12 year old count as pedophilia?
Well, it is believed that Joseph was much older than Mary when she married him at the age of 12. Wouldn't a 20-30 year old marrying a 12 year old count as pedophilia?
Actually, no. It would be immoral, but it wouldn't be pedophilia. Pedophiles are drawn to pre-pubescent children. Most girls are already going through puberty by that age.
Well, come to think of it, that's true now. It might not have been that far in the past.
Examine China, and Cook's hypocrisy quickly becomes apparent.
He would be better spending his money today on converting China to Christianity than on trying to stop a baker in Indiana declining to bake a cake for a homosexual 'marriage', even if the latter appears to cause him more mental torment than the torture of Christians in China.
Cook is the veritable bull in a china shop, modelling himself as a modern-day Indiana Jones on a mission. If Cook isn't careful, he will share the same metaphorical fate as the chief baker who shared a prison with Joseph.
never heard that one before. Based on what are they getting those ages?
Nothing in the bible points to those ages if I remember correctly.
Another thing to keep in mind is people died alot earlier in the 1st century. So it was very possible that it was the norm for girls to be married young and reproduce.
Actually, the Bible says he was much older than that-80 to 90 years of age when they married! She was 12. Of course, ages of men in the Bible (some of whom were said to live hundreds of years) should be taken with a grain of salt.
The hate against gays is really a basic fear. I'm not here to say being gay is good or bad. I'm not taking a stand here. My basic premise is the fear of gays is a basic survival instinct.
If a large portion of the population was gay there would be much less reproduction. Thus a basic instinct is to have less gays to have more reproduction. This is a very basic level. And it may take time for people to overcome that basic level fear. I'm not here to judge gays or people who 'hate' gays.
___________________
Next is that people don't choose to be gay but they are born gay. Fair enough.
But are some people born violent? Do some people have the predisposition to be violent?
Are some people born to be attracted to animals?
I don't know. But makes you think.
_______________________
All those who don't like Tim Cooks stance there is an easy solution: Sell your damn stock.
We don't fear them.
I don't understand the need to go fishing for some biological theory in order to explain away a juvenile, irrational preoccupation with sexual orientation (and for that matter, race.)
The problem - in part - is the way your freedoms are codified and "guaranteed." There's very little in there that allows for mechanisms to address abuses. Freedom is prized over and above how its use might affect others.
It's a cultural problem that reinforces divisive, even destructive attitudes.
This is not a smart way to build a progressive society.
If you want to talk about religious freedom then let’s consider the true Christian take on this. Nowhere in the New Testament is there any admonition to shun or discriminate against anyone. Even if you firmly believe homosexuality is a great sin you are told to love them as you love yourself. Christ took great pains to associate with “sinners.” He loved them just as much, maybe more, than the so-called “righteous.”
As for a business owner who claims religious freedom in refusing service to someone he considers a sinner remember that we are to “render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.”
Remember also that many Christian denominations preached that slavery was perfectly okay and biblical. During the Civil War many mainline denominations split over the issue.
I defy anyone who supports this law to justify it from a Christian viewpoint, either scripturally or morally. Try to tell me that Christ would have told me to stay away from a homosexual and not do business with him.
The end result of jumping into such a fray will be harm to Apple's bottom line and the impression that Apple is two-faced, making a big stink about an issue in the US, while saying nothing about discriminatory or oppressive behaviors in other highly profitable markets. I'd rather Tim voluntarily quit to pursue a job in politics or at the UN if he prefers to take his attention away from Apple.
What you'd "rather" is totally irrelevant. You're nothing more than a keyboard warrior, posting anonymously. Cook is CEO of the most valuable company in the world. And if you think that Cook, and Apple, have said "nothing" about oppressive behaviors in other countries, then I don't know what planet you've been on. But the fact of the matter is, a person has to clean his own yard before it becomes his business to help his neighbor clean his. This is simply fundamental.
And I notice that you didn't name a company that doesn't get involved in political or social issues.
Actually, the Bible says he was much older than that-80 to 90 years of age when they married! She was 12. Of course, ages of men in the Bible (some of whom were said to live hundreds of years) should be taken with a grain of salt.
Of course, you have to take ANYTHING in the Bible with a grain of salt ... if that.
BUT, common sense will tell you that any child-bearing couples that long ago were more than likely made up of an older male and a younger female. That's just biology and expectations.
If a young woman is expected to produce multiple children, she needs to start early since life expectancy -- especially for those giving birth -- is short. Women mature more quickly than men. And the women are the ones possibly dying from the process. Also, women were property. And no one wants to buy something old that will only last a few years.
Listen, I'm not a bible-thumper anyway. In fact, I don't care for any organized religions. However, most people do claim some kind of religious affiliation.
Examine China, and Cook's hypocrisy quickly becomes apparent.
He would be better spending his money today on converting China to Christianity than on trying to stop a baker in Indiana declining to bake a cake for a homosexual 'marriage', even if the latter appears to cause him more mental torment than the torture of Christians in China.
Cook is the veritable bull in a china shop, modelling himself as a modern-day Indiana Jones on a mission. If Cook isn't careful, he will share the same metaphorical fate as the chief baker who shared a prison with Joseph.
Why worry about making things "equal" by demanding that Tim Cook concern himslef with these issues in China?
This is not a Tim Cook problem. It's a USA cultural problem. And the problem runs very deep.
Take Tim Cook out of it. Take China out of it. Don't concern yourself with anything other than the shameless bigotry of that baker, and how you should be EMBARRASSED - especially under the gaze of the rest of the modern democratic world - to even THINK of allowing such bigotry to be elevated to what is essentially a codified act in the United States of 2015.
70 years ago it was about blacks, and the excuse was? Pick one.
Today it's the LGBT community and the excuse is "religion."
Like... really???
It's 2015. What the hell is wrong with you people?
Comments
That's a simplistic and incorrect interpretation of my comments.
From a purely net sales gain perspective, I am not sure, because numbers I've seen say that we're talking about 3-4% of the population. If that.
Are you talking about how many people are gay? Because it's larger than that.
But that's not the question. I'm not gay and I'm completely against this on every level and will support anyone who is against it (well, not Walmart, but that's a different story altogether).
Do you really think companies should stay out of political matters? Tell that to the Koch brothers, or Chik-fil-A, Hobby Lobby, or any company that criticizes Cuba, China, Iran, etc for their human rights abuses.
Personally, I believe that free speech should be encouraged and protected, especially when it's inclusionary and positive.
Don't conservatives ever tire of being on the wrong side of history? Slavery, anti-women's rights, anti civil rights, anti-gay, anti immigrant- don't they see that the natural arc of history is for an expansion of human rights? It's also laughable how many religious bigots point to the bible for their "one man, one woman" conception of marriage. That, in fact, is the exception in the Bible- Biblical marriage includes arranged marriages, women purchased through dowries, marriages with slaves, polygamy, incest, pedophilia, etc, etc. Most Biblical scholars think Mary was 15 or 16 when she gave birth to Jesus.
I don't think Biblical marriage means what bigoted conservatives think it means.
Agreed.
Nah, he speaking out when it's totally safe to do so. Believe me if Cook or the board was worried about shareholder reaction he wouldn't be doing it, period. Hence why Apple isn't pulling business from states that have these laws. But hey this editorial is good PR for Cook. I mean heck, Fortune just named him the worlds greatest leader.
10-15% of the U.S. population is gay? Your nuts.
Hmm...somehow I think the Cook defenders (besides you) don't see it that way.
As I recall, it was only after it became politically expedient did Barack Obama suddenly supported legalizing gay marriage.
The scenarios you've laid out are simplistic and partisan, which has not been the case historically.
Well, it is believed that Joseph was much older than Mary when she married him at the age of 12. Wouldn't a 20-30 year old marrying a 12 year old count as pedophilia?
Actually, no. It would be immoral, but it wouldn't be pedophilia. Pedophiles are drawn to pre-pubescent children. Most girls are already going through puberty by that age.
Well, come to think of it, that's true now. It might not have been that far in the past.
Tim Cook is right.
With "religious freedom" laws, we will soon have:
1. refusal to serve Blacks and colored people.
2. refusal to serve gays.
3. White only restaurants and businesses.
Great find.
Examine China, and Cook's hypocrisy quickly becomes apparent.
He would be better spending his money today on converting China to Christianity than on trying to stop a baker in Indiana declining to bake a cake for a homosexual 'marriage', even if the latter appears to cause him more mental torment than the torture of Christians in China.
Cook is the veritable bull in a china shop, modelling himself as a modern-day Indiana Jones on a mission. If Cook isn't careful, he will share the same metaphorical fate as the chief baker who shared a prison with Joseph.
http://m.nydailynews.com/life-style/old-mary-jesus-answers-burning-christmas-questions-article-1.996294
We don't fear them.
I don't understand the need to go fishing for some biological theory in order to explain away a juvenile, irrational preoccupation with sexual orientation (and for that matter, race.)
The problem - in part - is the way your freedoms are codified and "guaranteed." There's very little in there that allows for mechanisms to address abuses. Freedom is prized over and above how its use might affect others.
It's a cultural problem that reinforces divisive, even destructive attitudes.
This is not a smart way to build a progressive society.
'Too many cooks spoil the broth'.
With Tim, only one is required.
If you want to talk about religious freedom then let’s consider the true Christian take on this. Nowhere in the New Testament is there any admonition to shun or discriminate against anyone. Even if you firmly believe homosexuality is a great sin you are told to love them as you love yourself. Christ took great pains to associate with “sinners.” He loved them just as much, maybe more, than the so-called “righteous.”
As for a business owner who claims religious freedom in refusing service to someone he considers a sinner remember that we are to “render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.”
Remember also that many Christian denominations preached that slavery was perfectly okay and biblical. During the Civil War many mainline denominations split over the issue.
I defy anyone who supports this law to justify it from a Christian viewpoint, either scripturally or morally. Try to tell me that Christ would have told me to stay away from a homosexual and not do business with him.
Apple in the time of Steve Jobs.
Actually, the Bible says he was much older than that-80 to 90 years of age when they married! She was 12. Of course, ages of men in the Bible (some of whom were said to live hundreds of years) should be taken with a grain of salt.
Of course, you have to take ANYTHING in the Bible with a grain of salt ... if that.
BUT, common sense will tell you that any child-bearing couples that long ago were more than likely made up of an older male and a younger female. That's just biology and expectations.
If a young woman is expected to produce multiple children, she needs to start early since life expectancy -- especially for those giving birth -- is short. Women mature more quickly than men. And the women are the ones possibly dying from the process. Also, women were property. And no one wants to buy something old that will only last a few years.
Listen, I'm not a bible-thumper anyway. In fact, I don't care for any organized religions. However, most people do claim some kind of religious affiliation.
Why worry about making things "equal" by demanding that Tim Cook concern himslef with these issues in China?
This is not a Tim Cook problem. It's a USA cultural problem. And the problem runs very deep.
Take Tim Cook out of it. Take China out of it. Don't concern yourself with anything other than the shameless bigotry of that baker, and how you should be EMBARRASSED - especially under the gaze of the rest of the modern democratic world - to even THINK of allowing such bigotry to be elevated to what is essentially a codified act in the United States of 2015.
70 years ago it was about blacks, and the excuse was? Pick one.
Today it's the LGBT community and the excuse is "religion."
Like... really???
It's 2015. What the hell is wrong with you people?