Tell me fine sir why Frost has not been banned yet? He has HUNDREDS of flagged post the last few weeks.
What will it take? Seriously what will it take? There was already a poll taken to ban Frost and over 100 users said he should. So are you going to value 1 member over the majority? It is obvious that the majority of users here are sick of his constant bashing of Apple, Tim Cook, his sexist comments and racially insensitive comments. He has broken TOS by constant negative trolling. What will it take?
I'm not saying to perma-ban him. But allowing him to wreck havoc on this site unchecked is bring the quality of this site down.
I didn't know anything about any of this until today, but I can assure you it will be taken care of. In the future anyone can email me directly and let me know.
That's nice.
But are you telling us then that your flagging icon has amounted to a hill of beans all this while? Or the mods have simply not been reading these threads (including the one with a major flare-up yesterday from a lot of long-term posters who were utterly disgusted)?
But are you telling us then that your flagging icon has amounted to a hill of beans all this while? Or the mods have simply not been reading these threads (including the one with a major flare-up yesterday from a lot of long-term posters who were utterly disgusted)?
If so, what a freakin' disgrace.
All those posts from yesterday/last night are gone, deleted by the moderators. That was in the Macbook benchmarks topic. Solipsism Y, you, PScooter53, and I all said we were through with this forum because of the trolling. There was another or others whom I forget; the record is gone. They're not going to let us register a protest or do a public boycott, evidently, but they will allow the troll to keep working here 18 hours a day.
Yes, Benjamin Frost makes controversial posts but you have to allow minority viewpoints on a discussion forum. Is he a troll? I don't think so. The distinction I make between a troll and a genuine critic is how much thought they have put in to it vs just making a flippant remark, and if you engage with him he really has thought about it.
I personally find the way some posters shout him down to be more disturbing than the original posts. The language they use is unneccessarily personal and it creates an ugly "mob rule" vibe when several of them do it at once.
Trolls have opinions and occasionally even well thought through opinions, it is their incessant interjection of those opinions into every nook and cranny, disrupting other discussion that makes them trolls. The vast majority of Frosty's posts are about how the ?Watch sucks, or Tim Cook should leave Apple to start a political career, and the vastly majority of those are in threads with little or no call for that kind of comment. Add in the sexism, racism, ignorance, and bloody mindedness, and he's of no value at all to this forum.
I personally find the way some posters shout him down to be more disturbing than the original posts. The language they use is unneccessarily personal and it creates an ugly "mob rule" vibe when several of them do it at once.
And therein lies the cultural problem.
Not to oversimplify, but long-term-invested, thoughtful posters value sophisticated, richly-contented discussion. I've witnessed enough stretches of time where this was maintained that it's generally hoped, like Apple itself, this culture of continual refinement could be sustained ad infinitum.
But AI as a business needs to reach as large an audience as possible, and becoming as niche-y as this may worry them. But do they really want to abandon what makes them special and distinctive from their competitors?
Well, you two have a broader definition of a troll than me then. I think that as long as someone has properly thought out their opinion, and as long as it's on-topic for the thread, it's not trolling.
As for level of repetition, it's a hard site to judge that on, because there are a lot of articles per day with very similar topics.
Thank you [B]Crowley[/B] and [B]sog35[/B] for spelling out the exact problem. [B]BFrost[/B] not only has an [B]anti-Apple/anti-Tim Cook agenda, he has an anti-Apple Insider forum agenda.[/B]
He makes it impossible to enjoy the forum, in fact he is bad for one's health—elevated blood pressure and stress hormones, etc. He may be the reason we no longer hear from Tallest Skil or Dick Applebaum, for example. He is a destructive presence here.
^ dunno about that, I put Tallest Skil in a similar lying egotist troll pile to Frost. And while Frost may be obnoxious, at least he's not outright rude.
I find that even the way that "benjamin frost" disagrees is obnoxious. He won't so much say "I do not think Tim should be as vocal about social issues as he is", but instead aggressively says things like, "The Watch is going to flop, all the while Tim is ranting about social issues. The board will nix him by next year." It is like he is more interested in his imagined world of how things will play out, and specifically *wants* it to play out that way. Like he wants to see failure. *That* is what makes him a troll.
Well, you two have a broader definition of a troll than me then. I think that as long as someone has properly thought out their opinion, and as long as it's on-topic for the thread, it's not trolling.
As for level of repetition, it's a hard site to judge that on, because there are a lot of articles per day with very similar topics.
Here's a properly thought-out Frost opinion for your enjoyment:
Indeed.
It shows that Cook has no balls, and has so little faith in the Apple Watch that he doesn't dare disclose sales figures because he knows they will be too low.
In contrast, Jobs put his neck on the line and predicted that Apple would sell at least 10 million iPhones in its first year. So it did, and more.
Cook's weaselly excuse is that he doesn't want to give competitors an advantage by disclosing sales figures. It didn't exactly hurt the iPhone or iPad, though, did it?
It took me me a little bit to notice the watch! I see what Apple is clearly doing, advertising the Apple watch for Fashion and Fitness. When Apple first announced the Apple Watch, I was saying WHY? It's a Dying market. Not a market that hasn't really been exploited. Who's going to buy one? Now I think Apple will have record sales for a Smart Watch. Blowing everyone else out of the water combined, which really isn't all that hard to do as sales have been poor so far.
I still have no plans to buy one. I stopped wearing watches when I got my first Cell phone. I don't know if I want to start strapping on a watch all the time. I can't wear one at work anyway with what I do so that limits me to days when I'm off. Besides, these days I'm not a early adopter. To me it's smarter to wait for the second generation device at least. My first iPhone was the 4, my first iPad was a 3 (Which didn't work out with the 4 released 6 months later). my AppleTV's are 3's. Let people buy up the first generation devices. Test them out. Pro's and Con's, See how it is in the real world. Apple see's what works and what doesn't and the Second Generation Improved version is the one to really get. At that point, maybe I'd buy a cheap first generation Apple watch from someone who wants to upgrade.
^ dunno about that, I put Tallest Skil in a similar lying egotist troll pile to Frost. And while Frost may be obnoxious, at least he's not outright rude.
Yes, I forgot you had issues with TS. I know what you mean, but having spent many years myself in Indiana, where he lives, I see him as a character with a tragic flaw, sort of like Hotspur in Henry IV, where Shakespeare portrays him as a temperamental border Welshman, or was it Scotsman?
My other watches are around 37mm - 39mm, so I'm going with the 38mm Apple Watch. I think the 42mm watch would look too big and out of place on me. (I'm 5' 11" and have a 180mm wrist). I don't expect the smaller size to be a problem in terms of readability (I trust the designers, I guess). I wear a lot of long sleeve shirts and I don't want to have trouble with the cuffs getting hung up on the larger watch.
There's only a 4mm size difference. Considering just how small a difference that is, I found myself wondering today why they didn't just do a 40mm watch and do a one-size-fits-all approach. Certainly would have simplified the initial launch of the product.
As for the shirt sleeves, some reviewers have commented that it doesn't easily slip under a standard shirt sleeve cuff, but my shirt cuffs are far from standard, so I suspect your milage may vary.
I just noticed he is banned. I guess the mods don't see it your way.
Woo-hoo!!!!
Yea, mods. To paraphrase Churchill's reference to America, they always do the right thing when all other options have failed!" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
The mods are worthless. Ben Frost has literally THOUSANDS of reported posts. yet nothing is done.
IMO Ben Frost actually works for AppleInsider. His sole purpose is to rile up true Apple fans so threads have more posts and activities.
And if any Mod is reading this I challange you to tell me why Ben Frost has not been banned yet. He has broken TROLLING rules, FLAMING rules, RACIST rules, SEXIST rules, yet nothing. Come on you coward Mods. Tell me why he isn't banned. Oh I forgot. Its because Ben Frost is a mole planted by the staff.
agreed -- the moderation can be lousy. ive been banned for saying hes a troll, but hes been allowed to continue trolling (posting racist messages, or messages w/ the sole intention of inflaming or irritating others). its ridiculous.
I just oversee the news content, though I've been trying to clean up the comments as something of a side project when I have time. For example, I wrote the new commenting guidelines that we rolled out a few months ago. Admittedly I do not spend as much time in the comments as many of you. If there is a problem, I can handle it.
the problem w/ the new commenting guidelines is -- they seemed designed to stop commenters from critiquing the news content by saying "slow news day?" that, to me, does not offer much value as a reader. "slow news day?" comments dont bother me. but aggressive trolling does. so if the new policy seems geared to silencing content crits, but not trolls, then it's not much of an improvement.
Tell me fine sir why Frost has not been banned yet? He has HUNDREDS of flagged post the last few weeks.
What will it take? Seriously what will it take? There was already a poll taken to ban Frost and over 100 users said he should. So are you going to value 1 member over the majority? It is obvious that the majority of users here are sick of his constant bashing of Apple, Tim Cook, his sexist comments and racially insensitive comments. He has broken TOS by constant negative trolling. What will it take?
I'm not saying to perma-ban him. But allowing him to wreck havoc on this site unchecked is bring the quality of this site down.
yeah, the blatant trolling is a real drag on the signal-to-noise ratio on AI. it degrades the usefulness of the site and experience. i come here to read apple news and engage in thoughtful discussion w/ other enthusiasts -- not have to read disparaging and even racist remarks from somebody intentionally trying to inflame people. i can get that all day long on MacRumors...
Now I think Apple will have record sales for a Smart Watch. Blowing everyone else out of the water combined, which really isn't all that hard to do as sales have been poor so far.... I don't know if I want to start strapping on a watch all the time.
You are absolutely right. No doubt about it the ?Watch will change the smart watch market, and reign supreme in the marketplace for some time to come.
As for wearing a watch, I suspect that many who have stopped wearing watches may well take the same approach. To me, the pragmatic decision to buy one would be for wearing to the gym. Then I don't really have to worry about charging it every night, since it will basically live on the charger, and it's ready to go when I need it. I can also see it for travel days. From there, I suspect I will find other uses for it, and slowly expand my need for it, eventually leading me to possibly upgrade to a "nicer" model. It may be a gradual re-entrenchment back into the watch wearing mode for people, based on how indispensable the watch becomes. The more things it can do by itself, the more people miss the convenience, and the more likely they're going to wear the watch all the time again.
For those whom the entry price is no issue, and the Apple fan base, buying the watch seems like a no brainer, even if it doesn't necessarily serve all of an individual's needs. Whether people who have to sacrifice to buy even an entry level Sport model will be so eager to buy into it remains to be seen. Despite the impending arrival of the ?Watch, various assistants in my office have recently bought FitBits for use with their iPhones -- precisely because they want to track their fitness, but don't want to pay a lot of money for it. In the end nobody NEEDS an ?Watch. It's not like a cellphone, which Apple competes head to head in the marketplace with even the cheapest cell phones (at least on plan subsidies). People chose a smart watch for many different reasons, and perhaps that's why Apple threw everything but the kitchen sink into the debut model. If they hadn't included any of the health aspects of it, the watch likely would have sold just as well to the market that sees the benefit in daily notifications without having to reach for their iPhones -- especially since these people are in an income level that Apple typically targets. But fitness opens the door for people like me who might want to wear a watch when I'm working out, rather than carry around my iPhone, and for others still to track their fitness, all while integrating into their Apple lifestyle, even if they wear it for no other purpose; and I'm sure will account for a hefty number of sales. Because nobody needs an ?Watch at this time, I realize now it needs to do a lot to justify the purchase price for some. And I've no doubt it will become an indispensable tool that will revive wrist watch wearing for some.
the problem w/ the new commenting guidelines is -- they seemed designed to stop commenters from critiquing the news content by saying "slow news day?" that, to me, does not offer much value as a reader. "slow news day?" comments dont bother me. but aggressive trolling does. so if the new policy seems geared to silencing content crits, but not trolls, then it's not much of an improvement.
The guidelines are just as focused on trolls as they are what you refer to as "critics." We're just looking to cut down meaningless comments that distract from the conversation. The offensive comments left on this thread certainly fall under that category of comments we don't want. I just try not to personally moderate as I am not watching the forums as closely as others.
Comments
Tell me fine sir why Frost has not been banned yet? He has HUNDREDS of flagged post the last few weeks.
What will it take? Seriously what will it take? There was already a poll taken to ban Frost and over 100 users said he should. So are you going to value 1 member over the majority? It is obvious that the majority of users here are sick of his constant bashing of Apple, Tim Cook, his sexist comments and racially insensitive comments. He has broken TOS by constant negative trolling. What will it take?
I'm not saying to perma-ban him. But allowing him to wreck havoc on this site unchecked is bring the quality of this site down.
I didn't know anything about any of this until today, but I can assure you it will be taken care of. In the future anyone can email me directly and let me know.
That's nice.
But are you telling us then that your flagging icon has amounted to a hill of beans all this while? Or the mods have simply not been reading these threads (including the one with a major flare-up yesterday from a lot of long-term posters who were utterly disgusted)?
If so, what a freakin' disgrace.
All those posts from yesterday/last night are gone, deleted by the moderators. That was in the Macbook benchmarks topic. Solipsism Y, you, PScooter53, and I all said we were through with this forum because of the trolling. There was another or others whom I forget; the record is gone. They're not going to let us register a protest or do a public boycott, evidently, but they will allow the troll to keep working here 18 hours a day.
Yes, Benjamin Frost makes controversial posts but you have to allow minority viewpoints on a discussion forum. Is he a troll? I don't think so. The distinction I make between a troll and a genuine critic is how much thought they have put in to it vs just making a flippant remark, and if you engage with him he really has thought about it.
I personally find the way some posters shout him down to be more disturbing than the original posts. The language they use is unneccessarily personal and it creates an ugly "mob rule" vibe when several of them do it at once.
I personally find the way some posters shout him down to be more disturbing than the original posts. The language they use is unneccessarily personal and it creates an ugly "mob rule" vibe when several of them do it at once.
And therein lies the cultural problem.
Not to oversimplify, but long-term-invested, thoughtful posters value sophisticated, richly-contented discussion. I've witnessed enough stretches of time where this was maintained that it's generally hoped, like Apple itself, this culture of continual refinement could be sustained ad infinitum.
But AI as a business needs to reach as large an audience as possible, and becoming as niche-y as this may worry them. But do they really want to abandon what makes them special and distinctive from their competitors?
There has to be a happy medium in here somewhere.
Well, you two have a broader definition of a troll than me then. I think that as long as someone has properly thought out their opinion, and as long as it's on-topic for the thread, it's not trolling.
As for level of repetition, it's a hard site to judge that on, because there are a lot of articles per day with very similar topics.
He makes it impossible to enjoy the forum, in fact he is bad for one's health—elevated blood pressure and stress hormones, etc. He may be the reason we no longer hear from Tallest Skil or Dick Applebaum, for example. He is a destructive presence here.
I find that even the way that "benjamin frost" disagrees is obnoxious. He won't so much say "I do not think Tim should be as vocal about social issues as he is", but instead aggressively says things like, "The Watch is going to flop, all the while Tim is ranting about social issues. The board will nix him by next year." It is like he is more interested in his imagined world of how things will play out, and specifically *wants* it to play out that way. Like he wants to see failure. *That* is what makes him a troll.
Here's a properly thought-out Frost opinion for your enjoyment:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/183399/apple-watch-chip-suppliers-rumored-to-start-production-soon-orders-at-30m-to-40m-units/80#post_2639076
I just noticed he is banned. I guess the mods don't see it your way.
It took me me a little bit to notice the watch! I see what Apple is clearly doing, advertising the Apple watch for Fashion and Fitness. When Apple first announced the Apple Watch, I was saying WHY? It's a Dying market. Not a market that hasn't really been exploited. Who's going to buy one? Now I think Apple will have record sales for a Smart Watch. Blowing everyone else out of the water combined, which really isn't all that hard to do as sales have been poor so far.
I still have no plans to buy one. I stopped wearing watches when I got my first Cell phone. I don't know if I want to start strapping on a watch all the time. I can't wear one at work anyway with what I do so that limits me to days when I'm off. Besides, these days I'm not a early adopter. To me it's smarter to wait for the second generation device at least. My first iPhone was the 4, my first iPad was a 3 (Which didn't work out with the 4 released 6 months later). my AppleTV's are 3's. Let people buy up the first generation devices. Test them out. Pro's and Con's, See how it is in the real world. Apple see's what works and what doesn't and the Second Generation Improved version is the one to really get. At that point, maybe I'd buy a cheap first generation Apple watch from someone who wants to upgrade.
Yes, I forgot you had issues with TS. I know what you mean, but having spent many years myself in Indiana, where he lives, I see him as a character with a tragic flaw, sort of like Hotspur in Henry IV, where Shakespeare portrays him as a temperamental border Welshman, or was it Scotsman?
As for the shirt sleeves, some reviewers have commented that it doesn't easily slip under a standard shirt sleeve cuff, but my shirt cuffs are far from standard, so I suspect your milage may vary.
I just noticed he is banned. I guess the mods don't see it your way.
Woo-hoo!!!!
Yea, mods. To paraphrase Churchill's reference to America, they always do the right thing when all other options have failed!
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
The mods are worthless. Ben Frost has literally THOUSANDS of reported posts. yet nothing is done.
IMO Ben Frost actually works for AppleInsider. His sole purpose is to rile up true Apple fans so threads have more posts and activities.
And if any Mod is reading this I challange you to tell me why Ben Frost has not been banned yet. He has broken TROLLING rules, FLAMING rules, RACIST rules, SEXIST rules, yet nothing. Come on you coward Mods. Tell me why he isn't banned. Oh I forgot. Its because Ben Frost is a mole planted by the staff.
agreed -- the moderation can be lousy. ive been banned for saying hes a troll, but hes been allowed to continue trolling (posting racist messages, or messages w/ the sole intention of inflaming or irritating others). its ridiculous.
Thank you, mods!
I just oversee the news content, though I've been trying to clean up the comments as something of a side project when I have time. For example, I wrote the new commenting guidelines that we rolled out a few months ago. Admittedly I do not spend as much time in the comments as many of you. If there is a problem, I can handle it.
the problem w/ the new commenting guidelines is -- they seemed designed to stop commenters from critiquing the news content by saying "slow news day?" that, to me, does not offer much value as a reader. "slow news day?" comments dont bother me. but aggressive trolling does. so if the new policy seems geared to silencing content crits, but not trolls, then it's not much of an improvement.
Tell me fine sir why Frost has not been banned yet? He has HUNDREDS of flagged post the last few weeks.
What will it take? Seriously what will it take? There was already a poll taken to ban Frost and over 100 users said he should. So are you going to value 1 member over the majority? It is obvious that the majority of users here are sick of his constant bashing of Apple, Tim Cook, his sexist comments and racially insensitive comments. He has broken TOS by constant negative trolling. What will it take?
I'm not saying to perma-ban him. But allowing him to wreck havoc on this site unchecked is bring the quality of this site down.
yeah, the blatant trolling is a real drag on the signal-to-noise ratio on AI. it degrades the usefulness of the site and experience. i come here to read apple news and engage in thoughtful discussion w/ other enthusiasts -- not have to read disparaging and even racist remarks from somebody intentionally trying to inflame people. i can get that all day long on MacRumors...
You are absolutely right. No doubt about it the ?Watch will change the smart watch market, and reign supreme in the marketplace for some time to come.
As for wearing a watch, I suspect that many who have stopped wearing watches may well take the same approach. To me, the pragmatic decision to buy one would be for wearing to the gym. Then I don't really have to worry about charging it every night, since it will basically live on the charger, and it's ready to go when I need it. I can also see it for travel days. From there, I suspect I will find other uses for it, and slowly expand my need for it, eventually leading me to possibly upgrade to a "nicer" model. It may be a gradual re-entrenchment back into the watch wearing mode for people, based on how indispensable the watch becomes. The more things it can do by itself, the more people miss the convenience, and the more likely they're going to wear the watch all the time again.
For those whom the entry price is no issue, and the Apple fan base, buying the watch seems like a no brainer, even if it doesn't necessarily serve all of an individual's needs. Whether people who have to sacrifice to buy even an entry level Sport model will be so eager to buy into it remains to be seen. Despite the impending arrival of the ?Watch, various assistants in my office have recently bought FitBits for use with their iPhones -- precisely because they want to track their fitness, but don't want to pay a lot of money for it. In the end nobody NEEDS an ?Watch. It's not like a cellphone, which Apple competes head to head in the marketplace with even the cheapest cell phones (at least on plan subsidies). People chose a smart watch for many different reasons, and perhaps that's why Apple threw everything but the kitchen sink into the debut model. If they hadn't included any of the health aspects of it, the watch likely would have sold just as well to the market that sees the benefit in daily notifications without having to reach for their iPhones -- especially since these people are in an income level that Apple typically targets. But fitness opens the door for people like me who might want to wear a watch when I'm working out, rather than carry around my iPhone, and for others still to track their fitness, all while integrating into their Apple lifestyle, even if they wear it for no other purpose; and I'm sure will account for a hefty number of sales. Because nobody needs an ?Watch at this time, I realize now it needs to do a lot to justify the purchase price for some. And I've no doubt it will become an indispensable tool that will revive wrist watch wearing for some.
the problem w/ the new commenting guidelines is -- they seemed designed to stop commenters from critiquing the news content by saying "slow news day?" that, to me, does not offer much value as a reader. "slow news day?" comments dont bother me. but aggressive trolling does. so if the new policy seems geared to silencing content crits, but not trolls, then it's not much of an improvement.
The guidelines are just as focused on trolls as they are what you refer to as "critics." We're just looking to cut down meaningless comments that distract from the conversation. The offensive comments left on this thread certainly fall under that category of comments we don't want. I just try not to personally moderate as I am not watching the forums as closely as others.