That wasnt the point. If you look again, you should see that it was a response to Rogifan's claim that "Tim Cook's viewpoint is NOT the majority viewpoint by a long shot. It's only a majority view point in the media, pop culture and tech echo chamber"
Let's wait and see as these people get older.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber
Sad that "contributors" have so little to contribute to the discussion. What passes as news in this country has devolved into little more than the TV equivalent of click bait. Reinforce people's prejudices or scare the hell out of them with wall-to-wall doomsday coverage. Discussions consist of pitting two diametrically opposed ideologues against each other who attempt to win by scoring the most points. The theory being that truth will miraculously appear in the collision of two speeding locomotives. Oh, for a nice thoughtful, low key conversation among real experts who have no ax to grind and who are interested in learning from each other. PBS and BBC come close sometimes.
BBC fired Jeremy Clarkson and killed TopGear, they're dead to me now.
I'm starting to agree with people here saying Tim should have kept quiet about this. Perhaps it would have been wiser to donate some of is billion dollar net worth to others to take the fight to Indiana and elsewhere. He's going to give away the money anyway. Then he could distance himself one level and just tweet a thumbs up. None of these otherwise rational posters here would have nervous breakdowns and pollute these threads with their their religious zealotry and anger. We AI readers would be spared all the hate since Tim would be seen as just a minor player in the world of politics yet his cause would be advanced by his donations.
I personally have nothing against him speaking out, but these threads are a disaster.
Oh and by the way, in just 2 days over $800K has been raised by over 28,000 people in support of Memories Pizza. Tim Cook's viewpoint is NOT the majority viewpoint by a long shot. It's only a majority view point in the media, pop culture and tech echo chamber,
Latest polls: 54% in favor of legalizing gay marriage, 36% against, 10% undecided. I'd say the majority is on Mr. Cook's side, and history is on his side as well (among younger people, support is even higher - around 65%). Ten years from now even you will be saying gay marriage is no big deal - just like the many racists of the 1950s who convieniently "forgot" they were racists twenty years later.
Fox News (including its business division) easily takes the crown for being the dumbest and most biased news outlet in the US. Spades of research shows that their viewers are even worse on both scales. The news outlet and its viewers collectively wallow in a mutual backslapping ignorance that is breathtaking. You really have to watch it to believe it.
In a country where most television news is by low-information people for low-information people, that takes some doing.
Fox News (including its business division) easily takes the crown for being the dumbest and most biased news outlet in the US. Spades of research shows that their viewers are even worse on both scales. The news outlet and its viewers collectively wallow in a mutual backslapping ignorance that is breathtaking. You really have to watch it to believe it.
In a country where most television news is by low-information people for low-information people, that takes some doing.
I don't think they've been accused of editing footage to incite a race war, unlike some other networks.
The pressure from the SVP of Ad Sales was probably the only reason for an apology. This network is a dangerous farce of mindless entertainment and babble conjecture.
I don't feel that anyone, including Apple & Tim Cook, must refrain from doing business parties they disagree with to not be hypocrites. Engagement is certainly a more productive way to bring others around to your opinion. When it gets down to it, no one has a monopoly on moral perfection. Anyone who claims their side is the pure representation of good is full of it.
Examples of US foreign policy based upon isolation of countries we disagree with: Cuba, North Korea & Iran. Did we convince them by shunning them? Have they changed their ways? Not really. How about another country we formerly shunned: China. We re-engaged decades ago (thanks Richard Nixon, the guy wasn't all bad), and while the change wasn't overnight, things have changed over time. Exposure to American people, businesses & culture certainly has shaped China's transformation.
No doubt, there are still many things Americans should rightly disagree with China on. I'm not saying it's some utopia.
On the flip-side, where would China be today if the USA had continued shunning and refusing to engage them?
My point being, interact with people. All people. All races, religions, genders, sexuality, wealth, class, etc...If you disagree with them, perhaps it's even more important to interact.
Our politicians (I'm an American) could learn from this philosophy as well.
but clearly he's a hypocrite if it's ok to do business with places that consider homosexuality a capital crime, but not Indiana
Did Tim Cook state that Apple would no longer do business with the state of Indiana?
He is an American. No better place to start than here anyway. If he started butting into this issue in other countries it would be a disaster anyway. I didn't see him say that fwiw.
Did Tim Cook disparage or discriminate against others because of their beliefs? No, thus he's not a bigot.
Does disagreeing with one law obligate Tim Cook to hold a boycott? No, thus he's not a hypocrite.
Does commenting on the law of one region obligate Tim Cook to comment on other regions? No, thus he's not a hypocrite.
That said, I don't see what the big deal is about someone voicing an opinion that is mildly offensive to some. Why is there always a rush to publicly shame people. It was a silly, and factually wrong, thing to say to make a point, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. (Edit: Insert what polymnia said about engagement.)
As they say, opinions are like assholes, everyone feels the need to tell everyone else why theirs is the best, oh wait.
This whole thing is silly. I'm bisexual, so if you call me a right wing anything, it just exposes you.
It is legal in Indiana and nearly every state to discriminate against gays. It always has been, this law didn't change anything.
That pizzeria isn't run by bigots. She said she was happy to have gay customers come to the restaurant. She said she wasn't going to cater a gay wedding--- because she doesn't cater weddings. Duh.
Tim Cook actually shouldn't have said anything because he was responding to the media lie about the law rather than the actual law.
The truth of the matter is gays and everyone else have a fundamental right to marry-- this is what's know as Freedom of Association.
You know what else is guaranteed by freedom of association? Discrimination. I have the right to not sell to christians if I want, just as a black person has a right not to sell to the KKK.
I do business with everyone and don't discriminate because most people aren't bigots-- and you get the best result from christians by turning the other cheek!
Yet our society is so messed up that nobody even is aware of what this law ACTUALLY says, they're all responding to what the media told them it says.
Did you know that Clinton signed the original version of this law at the federal level? It's only happening in states now because the supreme court rules that the clinton law wasn't sufficient for state laws.
Actually, it was Imus not McGuirk who called those women jiggaboos. And as for it being par for the course, I suspect your par for the course comment has more to do with the political and gender discrimination preferences of the person whose mouth is spewing the words. Inappropriate commentary is far from being the exclusive provence of the far right. It's also a frequent habit of the left.
That said, it's more par for the course for Fox or MSNBC or Huffington Post or Rush the drug addict Limbaugh. They are all the same thing with some different spices sprinkled on top so it looks like it tastes different.
This whole thing is silly. I'm bisexual, so if you call me a right wing anything, it just exposes you.
It is legal in Indiana and nearly every state to discriminate against gays. It always has been, this law didn't change anything.
That pizzeria isn't run by bigots. She said she was happy to have gay customers come to the restaurant. She said she wasn't going to cater a gay wedding--- because she doesn't cater weddings. Duh.
Uhhh...no. She said ONLY gay wedding. You also clearly haven't heard what they also said. "gays chose to be gays and we chose to be straight....", etc.
This whole thing is silly. I'm bisexual, so if you call me a right wing anything, it just exposes you.
It is legal in Indiana and nearly every state to discriminate against gays. It always has been, this law didn't change anything.
That pizzeria isn't run by bigots. She said she was happy to have gay customers come to the restaurant. She said she wasn't going to cater a gay wedding--- because she doesn't cater weddings. Duh.
Tim Cook actually shouldn't have said anything because he was responding to the media lie about the law rather than the actual law.
The truth of the matter is gays and everyone else have a fundamental right to marry-- this is what's know as Freedom of Association.
You know what else is guaranteed by freedom of association? Discrimination. I have the right to not sell to christians if I want, just as a black person has a right not to sell to the KKK.
I do business with everyone and don't discriminate because most people aren't bigots-- and you get the best result from christians by turning the other cheek!
Yet our society is so messed up that nobody even is aware of what this law ACTUALLY says, they're all responding to what the media told them it says.
Did you know that Clinton signed the original version of this law at the federal level? It's only happening in states now because the supreme court rules that the clinton law wasn't sufficient for state laws.
Barack Obama supported this law in Illinois.
Jesus but this whole thing is stupid.
You're right that individuals are AND SHOULD BE ABLE TO discriminate. That's America. Others will, by and large, tend to shy away from, or denounce those who do discriminate and the "bad word" gets around fast enough, especially in today's connected world. In fact, it is alarming how fast people are to judge and attack, rather than do the slightest amount of investigation into what is real and what is propaganda. Reputations and lives are ruined faster than ever for the slightest of slights and that is not good. In fact, mob rule is just one more reason why democracies are dangerous and why our constitutional republic was created.
Having said that, it seems to me that the original law passed by Bill Clinton was also wrong at the time. Any establishment of or favor toward a particular religion is a violation of the Establishment Clause and it doesn't matter if one is in favor or against these things...they're all still unconstitutional and yet more dangerous precedent is set.
The law as originally passed bears little resemblance to the Federal law. You have no idea what you are talking about. And the idea that your declaration of bisexuality somehow gives you greater credibility is offensive. Your sexual preference is irrelevant. I couldn't care less who you sleep with. However, I do care very much about legally sanctioned discrimination. Certain types of discrimination have always been legal and should remain so. Others, such as race, creed, color, gender, etc. may have been legal at some point in time, but aren't now. you can soon add sexual orientation to that list. Freedom of association and illegal discrimination are two totally different things. What you choose to do in your private property is your business. The public arena and commerce s=conducted in the public arena is a different story buddy. Stop shooting off your mouth with unsupported drivel.
Oh and by the way, in just 2 days over $800K has been raised by over 28,000 people in support of Memories Pizza. Tim Cook's viewpoint is NOT the majority viewpoint by a long shot. It's only a majority view point in the media, pop culture and tech echo chamber,
Since when is 28,000 people a majority? I say *ONLY* 28,000 people that are in support?
The law as originally passed bears little resemblance to the Federal law. You have no idea what you are talking about. And the idea that your declaration of bisexuality somehow gives you greater credibility is offensive. Your sexual preference is irrelevant. I couldn't care less who you sleep with. However, I do care very much about legally sanctioned discrimination. Certain types of discrimination have always been legal and should remain so. Others, such as race, creed, color, gender, etc. may have been legal at some point in time, but aren't now. you can soon add sexual orientation to that list. Freedom of association and illegal discrimination are two totally different things. What you choose to do in your private property is your business. The public arena and commerce s=conducted in the public arena is a different story buddy. Stop shooting off your mouth with unsupported drivel.
Discrimination by the Federal government is unconstitutional. By individuals, constitutionally speaking, it should absolutely be allowed even though it is reprehensible and sickening. The thing about our constitutional rights is... either you defend them, or you have them gradually stripped away and trampled by government or by the mob.
How could he be called anything other than a bigot? On no level is he tolerant of opposing religious views. That's the definition of "Bigot". Apple is successful, yes. What the hell does that have to do with anything? The day Apple became a platform political politically pandering to and about homosexuals was the day that the rot set in. Right now, we see the momentum of the company. The success continues, but Tim Cook is going to damage the company before he's done, mark my words.
I have loved every Apple product, except the watch that I'm not so sure about. They make good products. But my iPhone isnt homosexual, is it? I don't think so, but I'm starting to think the company that makes it is. Apple seems to be trying to (re)define itself by its support for homosexuality
I wish Apple would leave politics alone and continue to make great products. I agree that Cook should be free to express his opinions, but to try to use Apple as some platform to give his voice more weight is just plain wrong.
So because something is popular, that makes it right? Okay then...
Precisely. Besides, consenting adults and private contracts make marriages, not a piece of paper issued by the government. There should be no involvement whatsoever by political parties in these matters.
28k people out of 300+ million? Your idea of majority needs some work. Come back in the unlikely event that even 1 million people - 1/3 of a percent - support this pizza shop. Tim's view may not be the majority, but at least he's supporting people, not tearing them down like the owners of that shop.
Comments
That wasnt the point. If you look again, you should see that it was a response to Rogifan's claim that "Tim Cook's viewpoint is NOT the majority viewpoint by a long shot. It's only a majority view point in the media, pop culture and tech echo chamber"
Let's wait and see as these people get older.
Sad that "contributors" have so little to contribute to the discussion. What passes as news in this country has devolved into little more than the TV equivalent of click bait. Reinforce people's prejudices or scare the hell out of them with wall-to-wall doomsday coverage. Discussions consist of pitting two diametrically opposed ideologues against each other who attempt to win by scoring the most points. The theory being that truth will miraculously appear in the collision of two speeding locomotives. Oh, for a nice thoughtful, low key conversation among real experts who have no ax to grind and who are interested in learning from each other. PBS and BBC come close sometimes.
BBC fired Jeremy Clarkson and killed TopGear, they're dead to me now.
I'm starting to agree with people here saying Tim should have kept quiet about this. Perhaps it would have been wiser to donate some of is billion dollar net worth to others to take the fight to Indiana and elsewhere. He's going to give away the money anyway. Then he could distance himself one level and just tweet a thumbs up. None of these otherwise rational posters here would have nervous breakdowns and pollute these threads with their their religious zealotry and anger. We AI readers would be spared all the hate since Tim would be seen as just a minor player in the world of politics yet his cause would be advanced by his donations.
I personally have nothing against him speaking out, but these threads are a disaster.
Oh and by the way, in just 2 days over $800K has been raised by over 28,000 people in support of Memories Pizza. Tim Cook's viewpoint is NOT the majority viewpoint by a long shot. It's only a majority view point in the media, pop culture and tech echo chamber,
Latest polls: 54% in favor of legalizing gay marriage, 36% against, 10% undecided. I'd say the majority is on Mr. Cook's side, and history is on his side as well (among younger people, support is even higher - around 65%). Ten years from now even you will be saying gay marriage is no big deal - just like the many racists of the 1950s who convieniently "forgot" they were racists twenty years later.
In a country where most television news is by low-information people for low-information people, that takes some doing.
Fox News (including its business division) easily takes the crown for being the dumbest and most biased news outlet in the US. Spades of research shows that their viewers are even worse on both scales. The news outlet and its viewers collectively wallow in a mutual backslapping ignorance that is breathtaking. You really have to watch it to believe it.
In a country where most television news is by low-information people for low-information people, that takes some doing.
I don't think they've been accused of editing footage to incite a race war, unlike some other networks.
Examples of US foreign policy based upon isolation of countries we disagree with: Cuba, North Korea & Iran. Did we convince them by shunning them? Have they changed their ways? Not really. How about another country we formerly shunned: China. We re-engaged decades ago (thanks Richard Nixon, the guy wasn't all bad), and while the change wasn't overnight, things have changed over time. Exposure to American people, businesses & culture certainly has shaped China's transformation.
No doubt, there are still many things Americans should rightly disagree with China on. I'm not saying it's some utopia.
On the flip-side, where would China be today if the USA had continued shunning and refusing to engage them?
My point being, interact with people. All people. All races, religions, genders, sexuality, wealth, class, etc...If you disagree with them, perhaps it's even more important to interact.
Our politicians (I'm an American) could learn from this philosophy as well.
He is an American. No better place to start than here anyway. If he started butting into this issue in other countries it would be a disaster anyway. I didn't see him say that fwiw.
Perhaps not, but they certainly incited a real war.....
(As I mentioned in my post, I am not a huge fan of news from the 'other networks' either. Perhaps you should read my post again).
Did Tim Cook disparage or discriminate against others because of their beliefs? No, thus he's not a bigot.
Does disagreeing with one law obligate Tim Cook to hold a boycott? No, thus he's not a hypocrite.
Does commenting on the law of one region obligate Tim Cook to comment on other regions? No, thus he's not a hypocrite.
That said, I don't see what the big deal is about someone voicing an opinion that is mildly offensive to some. Why is there always a rush to publicly shame people. It was a silly, and factually wrong, thing to say to make a point, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. (Edit: Insert what polymnia said about engagement.)
As they say, opinions are like assholes, everyone feels the need to tell everyone else why theirs is the best, oh wait.
This whole thing is silly. I'm bisexual, so if you call me a right wing anything, it just exposes you.
It is legal in Indiana and nearly every state to discriminate against gays. It always has been, this law didn't change anything.
That pizzeria isn't run by bigots. She said she was happy to have gay customers come to the restaurant. She said she wasn't going to cater a gay wedding--- because she doesn't cater weddings. Duh.
Tim Cook actually shouldn't have said anything because he was responding to the media lie about the law rather than the actual law.
The truth of the matter is gays and everyone else have a fundamental right to marry-- this is what's know as Freedom of Association.
You know what else is guaranteed by freedom of association? Discrimination. I have the right to not sell to christians if I want, just as a black person has a right not to sell to the KKK.
I do business with everyone and don't discriminate because most people aren't bigots-- and you get the best result from christians by turning the other cheek!
Yet our society is so messed up that nobody even is aware of what this law ACTUALLY says, they're all responding to what the media told them it says.
Did you know that Clinton signed the original version of this law at the federal level? It's only happening in states now because the supreme court rules that the clinton law wasn't sufficient for state laws.
Barack Obama supported this law in Illinois.
Jesus but this whole thing is stupid.
Actually, it was Imus not McGuirk who called those women jiggaboos. And as for it being par for the course, I suspect your par for the course comment has more to do with the political and gender discrimination preferences of the person whose mouth is spewing the words. Inappropriate commentary is far from being the exclusive provence of the far right. It's also a frequent habit of the left.
That said, it's more par for the course for Fox or MSNBC or Huffington Post or Rush the drug addict Limbaugh. They are all the same thing with some different spices sprinkled on top so it looks like it tastes different.
This whole thing is silly. I'm bisexual, so if you call me a right wing anything, it just exposes you.
It is legal in Indiana and nearly every state to discriminate against gays. It always has been, this law didn't change anything.
That pizzeria isn't run by bigots. She said she was happy to have gay customers come to the restaurant. She said she wasn't going to cater a gay wedding--- because she doesn't cater weddings. Duh.
Uhhh...no. She said ONLY gay wedding. You also clearly haven't heard what they also said. "gays chose to be gays and we chose to be straight....", etc.
This whole thing is silly. I'm bisexual, so if you call me a right wing anything, it just exposes you.
It is legal in Indiana and nearly every state to discriminate against gays. It always has been, this law didn't change anything.
That pizzeria isn't run by bigots. She said she was happy to have gay customers come to the restaurant. She said she wasn't going to cater a gay wedding--- because she doesn't cater weddings. Duh.
Tim Cook actually shouldn't have said anything because he was responding to the media lie about the law rather than the actual law.
The truth of the matter is gays and everyone else have a fundamental right to marry-- this is what's know as Freedom of Association.
You know what else is guaranteed by freedom of association? Discrimination. I have the right to not sell to christians if I want, just as a black person has a right not to sell to the KKK.
I do business with everyone and don't discriminate because most people aren't bigots-- and you get the best result from christians by turning the other cheek!
Yet our society is so messed up that nobody even is aware of what this law ACTUALLY says, they're all responding to what the media told them it says.
Did you know that Clinton signed the original version of this law at the federal level? It's only happening in states now because the supreme court rules that the clinton law wasn't sufficient for state laws.
Barack Obama supported this law in Illinois.
Jesus but this whole thing is stupid.
You're right that individuals are AND SHOULD BE ABLE TO discriminate. That's America. Others will, by and large, tend to shy away from, or denounce those who do discriminate and the "bad word" gets around fast enough, especially in today's connected world. In fact, it is alarming how fast people are to judge and attack, rather than do the slightest amount of investigation into what is real and what is propaganda. Reputations and lives are ruined faster than ever for the slightest of slights and that is not good. In fact, mob rule is just one more reason why democracies are dangerous and why our constitutional republic was created.
Having said that, it seems to me that the original law passed by Bill Clinton was also wrong at the time. Any establishment of or favor toward a particular religion is a violation of the Establishment Clause and it doesn't matter if one is in favor or against these things...they're all still unconstitutional and yet more dangerous precedent is set.
The law as originally passed bears little resemblance to the Federal law. You have no idea what you are talking about. And the idea that your declaration of bisexuality somehow gives you greater credibility is offensive. Your sexual preference is irrelevant. I couldn't care less who you sleep with. However, I do care very much about legally sanctioned discrimination. Certain types of discrimination have always been legal and should remain so. Others, such as race, creed, color, gender, etc. may have been legal at some point in time, but aren't now. you can soon add sexual orientation to that list. Freedom of association and illegal discrimination are two totally different things. What you choose to do in your private property is your business. The public arena and commerce s=conducted in the public arena is a different story buddy. Stop shooting off your mouth with unsupported drivel.
Oh and by the way, in just 2 days over $800K has been raised by over 28,000 people in support of Memories Pizza. Tim Cook's viewpoint is NOT the majority viewpoint by a long shot. It's only a majority view point in the media, pop culture and tech echo chamber,
Since when is 28,000 people a majority? I say *ONLY* 28,000 people that are in support?
The law as originally passed bears little resemblance to the Federal law. You have no idea what you are talking about. And the idea that your declaration of bisexuality somehow gives you greater credibility is offensive. Your sexual preference is irrelevant. I couldn't care less who you sleep with. However, I do care very much about legally sanctioned discrimination. Certain types of discrimination have always been legal and should remain so. Others, such as race, creed, color, gender, etc. may have been legal at some point in time, but aren't now. you can soon add sexual orientation to that list. Freedom of association and illegal discrimination are two totally different things. What you choose to do in your private property is your business. The public arena and commerce s=conducted in the public arena is a different story buddy. Stop shooting off your mouth with unsupported drivel.
Discrimination by the Federal government is unconstitutional. By individuals, constitutionally speaking, it should absolutely be allowed even though it is reprehensible and sickening. The thing about our constitutional rights is... either you defend them, or you have them gradually stripped away and trampled by government or by the mob.
I have loved every Apple product, except the watch that I'm not so sure about. They make good products. But my iPhone isnt homosexual, is it? I don't think so, but I'm starting to think the company that makes it is. Apple seems to be trying to (re)define itself by its support for homosexuality
I wish Apple would leave politics alone and continue to make great products. I agree that Cook should be free to express his opinions, but to try to use Apple as some platform to give his voice more weight is just plain wrong.
So because something is popular, that makes it right? Okay then...
Precisely. Besides, consenting adults and private contracts make marriages, not a piece of paper issued by the government. There should be no involvement whatsoever by political parties in these matters.
28k people out of 300+ million? Your idea of majority needs some work. Come back in the unlikely event that even 1 million people - 1/3 of a percent - support this pizza shop. Tim's view may not be the majority, but at least he's supporting people, not tearing them down like the owners of that shop.