Update your Mac: Apple fixes major flaw in OS X Yosemite, but won't patch Lion, Mountain Lion or Mav

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  • Reply 61 of 102
    asdasd wrote: »
    It's rock steady for me too. From 10.10.1.
    Look. Root access is overblown. You give all non-Mac store non-sandboxed apps admin access. Anyway.
    What? No, you don't. Apps only have admin access if you run under an admin account, and even then they don't have root access unless you specifically authorize them by entering your password.

    When you give root access to all running apps, you essentially have Windows XP. There never were any problems on that OS, were there?
  • Reply 62 of 102
    zabazaba Posts: 226member
    Old machine, no money to upgrade hardware. Guess I have to live with the issue. ????
    Late 2007 iMac running Yosemite. Runs like a dream. That's nearly 8 years old. It really says heaps about the quality of Apple Hardware and Software. There are no major bugs, just some early wifi issues, which have since been resolved. Yosemite really is fantastic.
  • Reply 63 of 102
    mariomario Posts: 348member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post





    It's rock steady for me too. From 10.10.1.

    Look. Root access is overblown. You give all non-Mac store non-sandboxed apps admin access. Anyway.



    No you absolutely do not. Please abstain from commenting if you don't have a slightest idea what the terms you are using actually mean.

  • Reply 64 of 102
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    What? No, you don't. Apps only have admin access if you run under an admin account, and even then they don't have root access unless you specifically authorize them by entering your password.

    When you give root access to all running apps, you essentially have Windows XP. There never were any problems on that OS, were there?

    Yeah. Let's be clear how I and the vast majority of people run os x

    We run one account as admin. Therefore those apps can access the home account. Which is where I keep stuff I care about. To be safe download Mac store apps.
  • Reply 65 of 102
    asdasd wrote: »
    Yeah. Let's be clear how I and the vast majority of people run os x

    We run one account as admin. Therefore those apps can access the home account. Which is where I keep stuff I care about. To be safe download Mac store apps.
    Accessing stuff in the current user's home folder has nothing to do with either admin or root access.
  • Reply 66 of 102
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    mario wrote: »

    No you absolutely do not. Please abstain from commenting if you don't have a slightest idea what the terms you are using actually mean.

    You give them access to the local users account. Yes there are certain functions that need some re entry of that admin password but the users admin local directory is readable. Documents are readable. What most people care about is readable.
  • Reply 67 of 102
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Accessing stuff in the current user's home folder has nothing to do with either admin or root access.

    Oh ffs. I know that. My point is root access as a security violation is overblown. There is nothing outside my home directory which is personal to me and apps downloaded from the web can do what they want. Spawn new local processes. Read non password protected documents. Upload to servers. Get my contacts. Read my mail. Install scripts to run at login. Etc.

    To be totally safe the user should only download sandboxed apps from the Mac store where access to even the local filesystem, user contacts and anything else of any possible danger demands user intervention or is disallowed.

    If you don't then root access, root escalations are a minor concern for most users. But you have taken the risk.

    This is how Apple is handling security. I expect that Apple will make App Store only apps the default with a strong warning when you downgrade security.
  • Reply 68 of 102
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    I have zero sympathy for people complaining about free and how it doesn't meet their definition of support.
  • Reply 69 of 102
    asdasd wrote: »
    Oh ffs. I know that. My point is root access as a security violation is overblown. There is nothing outside my home directory which is personal to me and apps downloaded from the web can do what they want. Spawn new local processes. Read non password protected documents. Upload to servers. Get my contacts. Read my mail. Install scripts to run at login. Etc.
    Intercept network traffic and steal your credit card information. Sniff through the swapfiles to find passwords to read password protected documents. Replace the software that pops up the password prompts, so that when you enter a password you give it to the bad guys instead. Disguise other malware to make it almost impossible to detect. Screw with the system keychain. Install malware so deep in the system that you'll never find it and root it out. Infect every single binary on the whole system, forcing a full reformat to get the system clean again.

    ... oh wait.
  • Reply 70 of 102
    desuserigndesuserign Posts: 1,316member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

    I have zero sympathy for people complaining about free and how it doesn't meet their definition of support.

    The OS isn't "free." We paid for it when we bought a Mac. Just because you label the OS "free" doesn't mean we will just settle for what we get if it's not what we wanted or expected when we bought it. It's also not an excuse for Apple to orphan the system they sold us.

     

    Apple's is a different value proposition from what is customary but some of us have expectations based on 35+ years worth of experience as loyal Apple customers.  Apple customer expectations are very high, as has been managed (engineered even) by Apple for a few decades now. A rock solid OS (and some version wiggle room) for all my Apple HW for several years is a foundational expectation for me.

  • Reply 71 of 102
    xiao-zhixiao-zhi Posts: 112member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by King Editor the Grate View Post



    This is one of those times I'm glad to still be on Snow Leopard!

    So you think Snow Leopard is more secure?  

     

    You seem to be using the internet so you might want a reality check of that.

     

    Are you also running Windows XP on Boot Camp by any chance?

  • Reply 72 of 102
    For an individual with a compatible machine the upgrade may not be a problem. For institutions and businesses with an Apple infrastructure on 10.9 this may not be possible due to all kinds of factors. In my school upgrades are only possible during the summer holiday and may sometimes skip a year.
  • Reply 73 of 102
    Almost as an aside: I use Aperture for some things and iPhoto for others, and if Photos doesn't let me rate photos with zero to five stars, my entire years long system of sorting and integrating thousands of photos per year completely breaks down. So for now, Photos is virtually useless for me, and I'll just keep using the old apps.

    Point being: features that some people won't miss at all are mission critical to others. And Apple casually discarding them is bafflingly myopic.

    Can I install iTunes 10 on a Yosimite machine? (I honestly don't know the answer.) If not, then I've got to keep my 2009 Mini/media center running an older OS. Because the iTunes revisions since 10 are pale shadows of that pinnacle version. (Jeez, simply being able to have more than a single window open is huge.).

    Point being: features that some people won't miss at all are mission critical to others. And Apple casually discarding them is baffling and myopic.

    Got a new MBP recently, and it's got Yosemite, and I'm checking it out. (I made sure to buy it in time to properly install Aperture from the App Store. (Lightroom is NOT an acceptable alternative.) ). It's pretty ugly, but maybe I'll eventually upgrade my 2012 Mini from Mavericks to run it too (since it's already stuck with the abysmal iTunes). Seems to me that it's a most basic human right that I can do so when I'm ready, not when I'm forced into it by malware coders on one side and blithe corporate indifference on the other.

    So point being: Some of you people need to get off your high horse. Most of the pissiness in this thread is ridiculous and unwarranted, insisting that you know better than someone else how to live his life and care for his hardware and balance his priorities. Please, get over yourself, and work on your own wisdom and understanding instead. I've been reading AI threads for a long time (usually as a lurker), and I don't remember ever seeing such snotty and pointless arrogance as quickly got started up above. I mean just *pointless* arrogance, as if there was no other tone available. If I ever actually met someone like that in real life it'd be over in three minutes. Jeez, did anyone even TRY to raise you properly? Or teach you the meaning of civility?

    People should be allowed to speak up about their circumstances without being blithely and pointlessly disdained by others. If this is what the Yosemite fan club thinks is normal, count me out.
  • Reply 74 of 102
    quevarquevar Posts: 101member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by justThorne View Post



    Almost as an aside: I use Aperture for some things and iPhoto for others, and if Photos doesn't let me rate photos with zero to five stars, my entire years long system of sorting and integrating thousands of photos per year completely breaks down. So for now, Photos is virtually useless for me, and I'll just keep using the old apps.



    Point being: features that some people won't miss at all are mission critical to others. And Apple casually discarding them is bafflingly myopic.



    Can I install iTunes 10 on a Yosimite machine? (I honestly don't know the answer.) If not, then I've got to keep my 2009 Mini/media center running an older OS. Because the iTunes revisions since 10 are pale shadows of that pinnacle version. (Jeez, simply being able to have more than a single window open is huge.).



    Point being: features that some people won't miss at all are mission critical to others. And Apple casually discarding them is baffling and myopic.



    Got a new MBP recently, and it's got Yosemite, and I'm checking it out. (I made sure to buy it in time to properly install Aperture from the App Store. (Lightroom is NOT an acceptable alternative.) ). It's pretty ugly, but maybe I'll eventually upgrade my 2012 Mini from Mavericks to run it too (since it's already stuck with the abysmal iTunes). Seems to me that it's a most basic human right that I can do so when I'm ready, not when I'm forced into it by malware coders on one side and blithe corporate indifference on the other.



    So point being: Some of you people need to get off your high horse. Most of the pissiness in this thread is ridiculous and unwarranted, insisting that you know better than someone else how to live his life and care for his hardware and balance his priorities. Please, get over yourself, and work on your own wisdom and understanding instead. I've been reading AI threads for a long time (usually as a lurker), and I don't remember ever seeing such snotty and pointless arrogance as quickly got started up above. I mean just *pointless* arrogance, as if there was no other tone available. If I ever actually met someone like that in real life it'd be over in three minutes. Jeez, did anyone even TRY to raise you properly? Or teach you the meaning of civility?



    People should be allowed to speak up about their circumstances without being blithely and pointlessly disdained by others. If this is what the Yosemite fan club thinks is normal, count me out.



    Very well stated!  Everyone who posted above should read what you wrote.

  • Reply 75 of 102
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member

    Regardless of whether or not I like Yosemite's UI or the new Photos app or whatever, the fact its that Yosemite has been out for less than a year; and historically speaking we could typically rely on Apple to provide at least security updates for the previous two versions of the OS. Here they aren't even providing it for Mavericks which less than 9 months ago was the newest Mac OS, and from the sounds of it this is fairly big security hole.

     

    The fact that Yosemite is free is irrelevant. There are a lot of free things in this world, that doesn't mean I want any of them. Even if someone's only reason to not upgrade is sheer stubbornness, Apple not providing a critical security update to 10.8 and 10.9 could be seen as a warning flag concerning the kind of support you might expect from Apple in the future.

     

    Bad move Apple. You have one of the biggest cash hoards of any company in the world. You clearly have the resources to fix this if you wished.

  • Reply 76 of 102
    mutoneonmutoneon Posts: 51member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MagMan1979 View Post

     

    I can see a lot of people, even some I didn't expect to be, bashing Yosemite, for various different reasons... Some are legitimate, like those experiencing bugs which, like Slurpy said, will ALWAYS be present in software.

     

    With the 10.10.3 update, Yosemite is now rock-solid, and solves the majority of issues people experienced. I've already deployed it to several Yosemite Mac's we have at work, and the owners have come back saying all their issues are gone, and that speed has improved. Which brings me to my next response to people claiming it slowed their machines down, again, bullshit. I had two identical 2011 MBP's side-by-side, one with Mavericks 10.9.5, the other with Yosemite 10.10.3, both freshly minted via USB installations onto blank drives. The Yosemite rig booted faster, responded quicker, and ran smoother. The only thing I can see Yosemite having issues with vs Mavericks on the other machine is certain translucent animations being a bit choppier on Yosemite, but not a deal breaker by any means.

     

    The others going on about the look of it, and some because of the new Photos app... To those screaming they won't upgrade because of the new look, get over yourselves. The same bullshit arguments were made about iOS 7 when it launched, and now, looking back at iOS 6 and older, how the hell did we ever get by with them? The OS is clean, crisp, and vibrant.

     

    I've found people to be highly resistant to changes of any kind, but we're not talking Microsoft's wholesale change methodology of screwing with a proven OS UX and dumping a steaming pile of horse dung onto its users! The changes in OS X Yosemite were mostly just "skin deep", and the addition of tons of features and security enhancements to the back-end negate ANY argument against upgrading to it!

     

    As for the Photos app, like someone here already said, you're not tied to it, there are plenty of alternatives available. Using that as a bullet point against upgrading is quite frankly adolescent and foolish.




    Your contention that legibility is a non-issue is ridiculous.  Many people have poor vision, and there's only so much you can do with the Accessbility preference pane.  People with bad vision are often older, less literate users as well, so it only makes things more difficult.  It's one thing to buy a new computer with a different interface, but this is now a forced "upgrade" for everyone who cares about security.

     

    Have you ever seen iOS 7/8 on an iPad 2 or Mini?  It is not a good look.  I would venture a guess that the majority of the Mac OS X installed base does not have a retina display.  Apple doesn't even sell them outside of the iMac 27".  They are basically forcing every Mac customer to change their operating system interface from something that was refined over the course of 14+ years to something that wasn't even designed for their hardware.  That's a far cry from the Apple experience that I've known.  I want icons that were designed to look good at the resolution of my current display.  Is that really so much to ask for?  I'm not even talking about the system icons, which I actually think are fine.  I mean the little pieces of GUI, from the menu bar to the browser window.  All the little monochrome bits look hideous to me without the 4x resolution of a retina display.

     

    I was planning on running Mavericks for years to come on my 5 year old machines.  Now I'm scratching my head wondering what's happening to this company.  The software issues have reached a crisis point for me, personally.  You can't just throw people off an operating system you released 2 years ago.  I don't think they're going to get away with this one.

  • Reply 77 of 102
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

     



    I don't get your hate for Yosemite.  I'm curious what your lingering "real" issues are with Yosemite.  I think Apple is doing the right thing by not supporting older OS'es.  Heck, as far as I'm concerned, it would be the equivalent of Microsoft being expected to support WindowsXP right now too.  Not going to happen.  Adapt and move on or stay stuck in your outdated OS slumber.

     


    Supporting last year's OS isn't really comparable with supporting an OS released before OS X 10.0. Vista is supported until 2017. Win 7 (which all the businesses were finally dragged to last year) until 2020. Granted those are "extended lifecycle" dates intended probably only for security fixes, but even "mainstream support" lasts for at least five years (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle).

  • Reply 78 of 102
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,292member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mutoneon View Post

     



    Your contention that legibility is a non-issue is ridiculous.  Many people have poor vision, and there's only so much you can do with the Accessbility preference pane.  People with bad vision are often older, less literate users as well, so it only makes things more difficult.  It's one thing to buy a new computer with a different interface, but this is now a forced "upgrade" for everyone who cares about security.

     

    Have you ever seen iOS 7/8 on an iPad 2 or Mini?  It is not a good look.  I would venture a guess that the majority of the Mac OS X installed base does not have a retina display.  Apple doesn't even sell them outside of the iMac 27".  They are basically forcing every Mac customer to change their operating system interface from something that was refined over the course of 14+ years to something that wasn't even designed for their hardware.  That's a far cry from the Apple experience that I've known.  I want icons that were designed to look good at the resolution of my current display.  Is that really so much to ask for?  I'm not even talking about the system icons, which I actually think are fine.  I mean the little pieces of GUI, from the menu bar to the browser window.  All the little monochrome bits look hideous to me without the 4x resolution of a retina display.

     

    I was planning on running Mavericks for years to come on my 5 year old machines.  Now I'm scratching my head wondering what's happening to this company.  The software issues have reached a crisis point for me, personally.  You can't just throw people off an operating system you released 2 years ago.  I don't think they're going to get away with this one.




    Wow, just wow, from the sounds of things, you pulled that bovine excriment right out of your posterior, because it sounds to me like you've never even tried using Yosemite on a non-Retina display. I run Yosemite on 2011 MBP's, 27" Thunderbolt displays, and various non-Apple displays, and guess what? The icons, type faces, and Accessibility options, all work and look great, and just as legible and usable as pre-Yosemite. Same thing with non-Retina iOS devices. Use the right Accessibility tweaks, and the system legibility is actually SUPERIOR to pre iOS 7 versions. How do I know this? Because I've setup a LOT of older users who poor eyesight on iOS 8, and configured the options for them, and they love it!

     

    Quote:


     I was planning on running Mavericks for years to come on my 5 year old machines.  Now I'm scratching my head wondering what's happening to this company.


     

    Quote:


     The software issues have reached a crisis point for me, personally.


    Are you fucking kidding? You think Apple has reached a crisis point with their software?! Are you daft?! Probably... Their software has never been more sophisticated in their history! Why would ANY company support a depreciated, obsolete OS, when a newer, better, faster, fully-supported, FREE upgraded version is available to the masses?!

     

    Yup, I think we got another up-tight, hissy-fit-throwing troll here folks... Damn, my block function has been pulling double-shifts at this site lately!

  • Reply 79 of 102
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,292member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

     

    Supporting last year's OS isn't really comparable with supporting an OS released before OS X 10.0. Vista is supported until 2017. Win 7 (which all the businesses were finally dragged to last year) until 2020. Granted those are "extended lifecycle" dates intended probably only for security fixes, but even "mainstream support" lasts for at least five years (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle).




    Yes it is, when the new OS upgrade is free, and can be accomplished with a few mouse clicks. With 10.10.3, there is no more excuses for people NOT to upgrade to it...

  • Reply 80 of 102
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MagMan1979 View Post

     



    Yes it is, when the new OS upgrade is free, and can be accomplished with a few mouse clicks. With 10.10.3, there is no more excuses for people NOT to upgrade to it...


    The OS upgrade is "free" only in the sense of how much you pay out of pocket. There are other costs associated with changing an OS.

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