[quote]Just a question. How does all of this personally affect you? You act like Apple's come into your house, killed your dog, ate your dinner and then charged you for it.<hr></blockquote>
what do you mean? how does it affect anyone on these boards? Is it not possible to comment on something if you are not directly related to it?
That's not how I'm acting at all. The original message was that Apple is missing expectations once again citing poor consumer and creative market demand. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but those two areas have ALWAYS been apple's biggest and most reliable markets. for those two to be the cause of financial problems is pretty big news IMO and reason for concern.
It's not like its just a problem now. The PowerMacs have been plagued with mediocre price/performance for 2+ years now. I'm hoping there will be a major announcement at MWNY but we have all been hoping the same for the past 2 years. When is it finally going to come?
[quote]t time you decide to act like you know better than I about what I think, maybe understand that you don't. Until you work in the industry, try to stop making it seem like you have a clue about what you're talking about. <hr></blockquote>
I don't need to justify to you why this is an important issue to me as you apparantly see fit to do so to me.
Great your company is getting along fine with hardware that is a year old, and in some cases 2. is that a surprise? did I expect your company to need to pdate every 6 months?
But in a way you are also supporting my complaint. There hasn't been enough significant improvements to justify your company replacing the machines you have. the increase in productivity you would see is likely small.
My main system is a Sawtooth G4/400. I've wanted to replace it for a while now. But with the exception of the Superdrive, the new machines don't really do anything I can't do. Nor do they do it much better. Of course I would like a dual 1Ghz to compress my videos a lot quicker but the difference is not big enough to justify spending 3600 on the machine plus a 15 inch LCD.
I can't even get a new mac with a PCI slot and an apple monitor for less than $2100. I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. And its not like these machines are just priced that way due to their amazing feature set. that is the lowend machine which in many ways is outfeatured by the iMac G4/800 for $1899
Heck for the price of the dual 1Ghz I can get 2 iMac LCDs. that's two displays and two of every component for less than the tower.
Gosh, we aren't the French. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
As someone of French descent, I feel very slighted at that remark.
I demand a full apology written in the dialect of the eastern edge tribe from Paupau New Guinea consisting of 5 pages...all in triplicate by hand..no machines or carbon!
Apple is doing the best they can in a tough market right now. Look at AMD. They just announced a "substantial operating loss". At least Apple is still making a profit.
I think Apple's new "Switch" campaign is a good thing for them. I was one of those Windoze Users who switched over a year ago when OSX came out. Several of my other friends have also made the switch. Granted some things are faster on the PC end, but when you take into account how many times you have to apply security patches, reboot your machine, and re-install Windows, the Mac comes out ahead. Granted OSX is not perfect, but it is getting better. That is more to be said for Windows XP. I recently installed XP on my old Windows 2000 machine and found that the interface had changed once again. I found myself having to relearn once again. In fact, it took me longer to relearn XP than to learn OSX from scratch.
I think Apple feigned the whole iMac LCD shortage fiasco/excuse in order to come out with profitability by raising prices on the iMacs by $100.
It's clever, but unfortunately won't help the fundamentals. Apple is doomed.
Estimates assert that Apple will sell approximately 220,000-260,000 iMacs this quarter. For this example, lets assume Apple sells 240,000 iMacs this quarter.
240,000 * $100 = 24 million profit
This of course does not include the profit Apple made per unit before the price hike. The $100 price hile was initiated to reduce demand while offsetting rising LCD prices. Let us assume that rising LCD prices and lower DRAM prices offset this pre-price hike profit so that for the purpose of this analysis, Apple makes $100 profit per iMac sold.
Apple is guiding to a profit of approximately $30-$35 million and $24 million is a large chunk of that.
What about the PowerMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks and other products Apple sells?
Revenues are expected to be around $1.4 billion. If Apple sells 240,000 iMacs at an average price of, say, $1600, then that's only $384 million in revenue. The other $1 billion is constituted of the other hardware and software Apple sells.
So, according to numbers being thrown around on Wallstreet and by Apple, Apple is making between $6 and $11 million on that other $1 billion in revenue.
I don't need to justify to you why this is an important issue to me as you apparantly see fit to do so to me.
<hr></blockquote>
What the hell does that even mean?
[quote]
Great your company is getting along fine with hardware that is a year old, and in some cases 2. is that a surprise? did I expect your company to need to pdate every 6 months?
<hr></blockquote>
No. But do you think every company or consumer needs to update every six months or even now as well? Probably not, so to then, it really doesn't make a difference what PowerMacs are available right now, does it?
[quote]But in a way you are also supporting my complaint. There hasn't been enough significant improvements to justify your company replacing the machines you have. the increase in productivity you would see is likely small. <hr></blockquote>
Did you even read the post? The question here is not the significance of improvements to the hardware, it's the lack of IT SPENDING. Reread what I posted. Go ahead. Budget cuts abound. That's exactly why the pc industry as a whole is facing a purchasing drought. Trust me, enterprise is responisble for that fact just as much as consumers are if not more. Open your eyes.
[quote]My main system is a Sawtooth G4/400. I've wanted to replace it for a while now. But with the exception of the Superdrive, the new machines don't really do anything I can't do. Nor do they do it much better. Of course I would like a dual 1Ghz to compress my videos a lot quicker but the difference is not big enough to justify spending 3600 on the machine plus a 15 inch LCD.<hr></blockquote>
My main is a 733 Graphite. It does what I want it to do, as a matter of fact, so does my Pismo. So what's your point? If you can do what you need to, why bitch about what's available? You're getting it done, aren't you?
[quote]I can't even get a new mac with a PCI slot and an apple monitor for less than $2100. I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. And its not like these machines are just priced that way due to their amazing feature set. that is the lowend machine which in many ways is outfeatured by the iMac G4/800 for $1899<hr></blockquote>
The lowend PowerMac is 1599. It's faster than your current Mac, or did you not realize that? What's pushing you over the ledge is your desire for an LCD. An Apple one at that. You do have other options, you know. That statement is silly.
[quote]Heck for the price of the dual 1Ghz I can get 2 iMac LCDs. that's two displays and two of every component for less than the tower. the prices just don't make sense.<hr></blockquote>
Your logic is flawed. Sure you could buy two, but aren't you the one lamenting about a lack of a pci slot in the iMac? You cant compare the two cuz they are aimed at two very different groups.
<strong>Apple is doing the best they can in a tough market right now. Look at AMD. They just announced a "substantial operating loss". At least Apple is still making a profit.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I'm sure that a 133MHz bus in their Pro machines is the best Apple can do
It's clever, but unfortunately won't help the fundamentals. Apple is doomed.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I may not be one of the most optimistic people here, but Apple is not really doomed. People have been saying they're doomed since the mid-90's but Apple's still around, right? They've got a lot of problems that they need to fix if they wanna gain marketshare, but they're not doomed.
Here's an interesting observation. The people who seem to think Apple is on shaky ground, such as me, Applenut, Nostradamus, and Junkyard Dawg all seem to quote actual sales statistics and long term trends. The people who argue vehemently that we are trolling don't have any numbers but merely repeat something hopeful from the current week's headlines, like
"The iMac is so hot that can't even meet demand" or
"Yeah they had an OK quarter this time but there's huge pent up demand for the iMac so NEXT quarter will be the killer" or
"Their sales are down but there's a recession" or
"Sales of the current model are just slow because everyone knows the next model is coming soon" or
"When Photoshop gets here everything will be alright" or
"When the performance problems of OS X are ironed out they'll be lots of people buying new machines"
"I don't have any numbers, but Apple must be doing better than ever because I just read that their marketshare doubled in Switzerland"
Frankly, these threads have no objectivity whatsoever by any party. There's no reason to think anyone here is more realistic than anyone else. Everyone here gets delusional about Apple one way or the other.
"Apple is doomed."
"It's bump in the road."
Surely the truth isn't somewhere in between?
(Answer: don't call me surely.)
--------------
Couple points:
Apple could not succeed with Microsoft's business model because Microsoft succeeded so well with it.
Also, if Apple invented the stories of production problems with the iMac to happily surprise Wall Street, you could bet that the SEC would tear them a new ******* before you could say "fraud." And if that is the case, then you won't have to blame poor sales for the demise of Apple.
[quote] Yeah, I'm sure that a 133MHz bus in their Pro machines is the best Apple can do <hr></blockquote>
See the numerous posts in Future Hardware regarding the MPX bus that the current iteration of the G4s use. You'll see that Apple really can't do much better than PC133. They have DDR in the XServe, but the connection between the CPU and memory controller is still limited to 1 GB per second. (The increased bandwidth is useful for other things that are connected to the memory controller).
I don't deny, however, that there are other ways that Apple can increase value in the Pro line. Including but not limited to lower prices (within reason), more dual CPU configurations, more than 3 DIMM slots, and 2 5.25 inch drive bays.
"It's probably a combination of: a lot of people not seeing convincing value for money, and a lot of people holding out for MWNY."
I disagree that it's got anything to do with people waiting until MWNY. PowerMac sales have been down for a long time. At first we said they would pick up when OS X came out. Then last winter we said people were waiting for MacWorld in January and the expected 1 GHZ machines. Then we said that professional customers were waiting for native OS X apps like Photoshop. The gap is big enough that I don't think customers are waiting for small increases.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was assuming (silly me) that, given all the talk around here, people were holding out for a big increase, not an incremental one, at MWNY.
Money is tight, and the last thing that spurred a big round of hardware upgrades was the original G4. As applenut testified, the current G4s aren't enough of an upgrade incentive for people who already have a G4. As Shanny pointed out, it would take a whole lot to spur a round of upgrades in this economy, especially since the last few years' machines do the job perfectly well. That's why I mentioned technologies like DDR that really would take PowerMac performance to another level.
[quote]<strong>If this "Switchers" campaign does not produce results than I think that we can conclude that Apple has no real chance of DIRECTLY getting Windows users to move to the Mac.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes. And this is their biggest problem. Not anemic PowerMacs, because consumers don't buy most of those - design and press shops, studios and research labs do. Their problem is getting people to even look at them as an alternative, and once they do, they have to like what they see, and also feel reassured that they aren't taking a blind leap into the unknown, or getting a pretty machine that can't do what they want a computer to do. Apple is attacking this from several fronts because they have to, and more than one of them has to succeed.
[quote]<strong>So then what they need to do is go indirectly. Offer iPod for Windows. Sell iTunes, iMovie, and iPhoto for Windows cheaply or give them away free. If these differences don't get people to buy a Mac then Apple has to try to build a brand name with Windows users while they are using their Windows machine.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This might not be a bad idea simply because the more people see the Apple logo on their Windows box, the less fear they might have that Apple products live in their own little world.
[quote]<strong> Here's an interesting observation. The people who seem to think Apple is on shaky ground, such as me, Applenut, Nostradamus, and Junkyard Dawg all seem to quote actual sales statistics and long term trends.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I see no dispute over the numbers. It's a given in this thread, that Apple's sales are down, and it's known that the PowerMacs are not what they once were. Those of us that are hopeful are speculating about things that there are only rumors about (imagine that, on AppleInsider ) and so obviously there are no hard numbers.
I will only note that the "Apple is doomed" rhetoric has a 20 year long trend of being wrong. Apple survived 1996, and we aren't looking at 1996.
People are holding back on purchasing the pro equipment. Until they see a definite speed boost at the right price they will stick with what they have for a little longer.
If Apple has something up their sleeves, you'd think MWNY would definitely be the time to unveil it.
Apple needs to stop milking old hardware technology and improve it to match their innovative software.
Keep giving us small speed bumps at high prices and that RDF will start to fade even amongst the Apple loyalists.
<strong>Actually, Apple is doomed. Saying otherwise is absurd. There is no truth in between.
Apple's demise poses only two questions: when and how.
Given recent trends, there will be no Apple Computer in 5 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you really believe the ship is sinking, why are you still on board?
It just seems really odd that you would seek out a forum of apple devotees just to explain that apple is irreconcilably doomed to failure and a horrible death and there?s nothing anyone can do so we should just give up...
I sold all my PC gear 3 months ago, and I'm not going back. There are a lot of people here and elsewhere who feel the same. If you want to disagree, that's fine, but why troll here if you truely hate the company and the product in such a way?
Comments
what do you mean? how does it affect anyone on these boards? Is it not possible to comment on something if you are not directly related to it?
That's not how I'm acting at all. The original message was that Apple is missing expectations once again citing poor consumer and creative market demand. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but those two areas have ALWAYS been apple's biggest and most reliable markets. for those two to be the cause of financial problems is pretty big news IMO and reason for concern.
It's not like its just a problem now. The PowerMacs have been plagued with mediocre price/performance for 2+ years now. I'm hoping there will be a major announcement at MWNY but we have all been hoping the same for the past 2 years. When is it finally going to come?
[quote]t time you decide to act like you know better than I about what I think, maybe understand that you don't. Until you work in the industry, try to stop making it seem like you have a clue about what you're talking about. <hr></blockquote>
I don't need to justify to you why this is an important issue to me as you apparantly see fit to do so to me.
Great your company is getting along fine with hardware that is a year old, and in some cases 2. is that a surprise? did I expect your company to need to pdate every 6 months?
But in a way you are also supporting my complaint. There hasn't been enough significant improvements to justify your company replacing the machines you have. the increase in productivity you would see is likely small.
My main system is a Sawtooth G4/400. I've wanted to replace it for a while now. But with the exception of the Superdrive, the new machines don't really do anything I can't do. Nor do they do it much better. Of course I would like a dual 1Ghz to compress my videos a lot quicker but the difference is not big enough to justify spending 3600 on the machine plus a 15 inch LCD.
I can't even get a new mac with a PCI slot and an apple monitor for less than $2100. I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. And its not like these machines are just priced that way due to their amazing feature set. that is the lowend machine which in many ways is outfeatured by the iMac G4/800 for $1899
Heck for the price of the dual 1Ghz I can get 2 iMac LCDs. that's two displays and two of every component for less than the tower.
the prices just don't make sense.
Gosh, we aren't the French. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>
Gosh, we aren't the French. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
As someone of French descent, I feel very slighted at that remark.
I demand a full apology written in the dialect of the eastern edge tribe from Paupau New Guinea consisting of 5 pages...all in triplicate by hand..no machines or carbon!
I think Apple's new "Switch" campaign is a good thing for them. I was one of those Windoze Users who switched over a year ago when OSX came out. Several of my other friends have also made the switch. Granted some things are faster on the PC end, but when you take into account how many times you have to apply security patches, reboot your machine, and re-install Windows, the Mac comes out ahead. Granted OSX is not perfect, but it is getting better. That is more to be said for Windows XP. I recently installed XP on my old Windows 2000 machine and found that the interface had changed once again. I found myself having to relearn once again. In fact, it took me longer to relearn XP than to learn OSX from scratch.
I think the switch campaign is the best thing in advertising that Apple has done in a long time.
I use Windows 2000 at work and I absolutely hate it. And this guy I work with went and bought a Dell earlier this year..what a dork.
So, why do you still have your PC?
It's clever, but unfortunately won't help the fundamentals. Apple is doomed.
Estimates assert that Apple will sell approximately 220,000-260,000 iMacs this quarter. For this example, lets assume Apple sells 240,000 iMacs this quarter.
240,000 * $100 = 24 million profit
This of course does not include the profit Apple made per unit before the price hike. The $100 price hile was initiated to reduce demand while offsetting rising LCD prices. Let us assume that rising LCD prices and lower DRAM prices offset this pre-price hike profit so that for the purpose of this analysis, Apple makes $100 profit per iMac sold.
Apple is guiding to a profit of approximately $30-$35 million and $24 million is a large chunk of that.
What about the PowerMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks and other products Apple sells?
Revenues are expected to be around $1.4 billion. If Apple sells 240,000 iMacs at an average price of, say, $1600, then that's only $384 million in revenue. The other $1 billion is constituted of the other hardware and software Apple sells.
So, according to numbers being thrown around on Wallstreet and by Apple, Apple is making between $6 and $11 million on that other $1 billion in revenue.
Pathetic.
<strong>I think...
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please..you are straining the hamster...I can see the smoke coming out now.
[quote]
Pathetic.<hr></blockquote>
yeah, you are right..your post is pathetic. Go buy a Dell dude..we don't need your negative attitude.
I don't need to justify to you why this is an important issue to me as you apparantly see fit to do so to me.
<hr></blockquote>
What the hell does that even mean?
[quote]
Great your company is getting along fine with hardware that is a year old, and in some cases 2. is that a surprise? did I expect your company to need to pdate every 6 months?
<hr></blockquote>
No. But do you think every company or consumer needs to update every six months or even now as well? Probably not, so to then, it really doesn't make a difference what PowerMacs are available right now, does it?
[quote]But in a way you are also supporting my complaint. There hasn't been enough significant improvements to justify your company replacing the machines you have. the increase in productivity you would see is likely small. <hr></blockquote>
Did you even read the post? The question here is not the significance of improvements to the hardware, it's the lack of IT SPENDING. Reread what I posted. Go ahead. Budget cuts abound. That's exactly why the pc industry as a whole is facing a purchasing drought. Trust me, enterprise is responisble for that fact just as much as consumers are if not more. Open your eyes.
[quote]My main system is a Sawtooth G4/400. I've wanted to replace it for a while now. But with the exception of the Superdrive, the new machines don't really do anything I can't do. Nor do they do it much better. Of course I would like a dual 1Ghz to compress my videos a lot quicker but the difference is not big enough to justify spending 3600 on the machine plus a 15 inch LCD.<hr></blockquote>
My main is a 733 Graphite. It does what I want it to do, as a matter of fact, so does my Pismo. So what's your point? If you can do what you need to, why bitch about what's available? You're getting it done, aren't you?
[quote]I can't even get a new mac with a PCI slot and an apple monitor for less than $2100. I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. And its not like these machines are just priced that way due to their amazing feature set. that is the lowend machine which in many ways is outfeatured by the iMac G4/800 for $1899<hr></blockquote>
The lowend PowerMac is 1599. It's faster than your current Mac, or did you not realize that? What's pushing you over the ledge is your desire for an LCD. An Apple one at that. You do have other options, you know. That statement is silly.
[quote]Heck for the price of the dual 1Ghz I can get 2 iMac LCDs. that's two displays and two of every component for less than the tower. the prices just don't make sense.<hr></blockquote>
Your logic is flawed. Sure you could buy two, but aren't you the one lamenting about a lack of a pci slot in the iMac? You cant compare the two cuz they are aimed at two very different groups.
[edit] crummy ubb code
[ 06-18-2002: Message edited by: Shanny ]</p>
<strong>Apple is doing the best they can in a tough market right now. Look at AMD. They just announced a "substantial operating loss". At least Apple is still making a profit.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I'm sure that a 133MHz bus in their Pro machines is the best Apple can do
<strong>
It's clever, but unfortunately won't help the fundamentals. Apple is doomed.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I may not be one of the most optimistic people here, but Apple is not really doomed. People have been saying they're doomed since the mid-90's but Apple's still around, right? They've got a lot of problems that they need to fix if they wanna gain marketshare, but they're not doomed.
"The iMac is so hot that can't even meet demand" or
"Yeah they had an OK quarter this time but there's huge pent up demand for the iMac so NEXT quarter will be the killer" or
"Their sales are down but there's a recession" or
"Sales of the current model are just slow because everyone knows the next model is coming soon" or
"When Photoshop gets here everything will be alright" or
"When the performance problems of OS X are ironed out they'll be lots of people buying new machines"
"I don't have any numbers, but Apple must be doing better than ever because I just read that their marketshare doubled in Switzerland"
[ 06-18-2002: Message edited by: spindler ]</p>
"Apple is doomed."
"It's bump in the road."
Surely the truth isn't somewhere in between?
(Answer: don't call me surely.)
--------------
Couple points:
Apple could not succeed with Microsoft's business model because Microsoft succeeded so well with it.
Also, if Apple invented the stories of production problems with the iMac to happily surprise Wall Street, you could bet that the SEC would tear them a new ******* before you could say "fraud." And if that is the case, then you won't have to blame poor sales for the demise of Apple.
See the numerous posts in Future Hardware regarding the MPX bus that the current iteration of the G4s use. You'll see that Apple really can't do much better than PC133. They have DDR in the XServe, but the connection between the CPU and memory controller is still limited to 1 GB per second. (The increased bandwidth is useful for other things that are connected to the memory controller).
I don't deny, however, that there are other ways that Apple can increase value in the Pro line. Including but not limited to lower prices (within reason), more dual CPU configurations, more than 3 DIMM slots, and 2 5.25 inch drive bays.
Apple's demise poses only two questions: when and how.
Given recent trends, there will be no Apple Computer in 5 years.
<strong>Amorph wrote:
"It's probably a combination of: a lot of people not seeing convincing value for money, and a lot of people holding out for MWNY."
I disagree that it's got anything to do with people waiting until MWNY. PowerMac sales have been down for a long time. At first we said they would pick up when OS X came out. Then last winter we said people were waiting for MacWorld in January and the expected 1 GHZ machines. Then we said that professional customers were waiting for native OS X apps like Photoshop. The gap is big enough that I don't think customers are waiting for small increases.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was assuming (silly me) that, given all the talk around here, people were holding out for a big increase, not an incremental one, at MWNY.
Money is tight, and the last thing that spurred a big round of hardware upgrades was the original G4. As applenut testified, the current G4s aren't enough of an upgrade incentive for people who already have a G4. As Shanny pointed out, it would take a whole lot to spur a round of upgrades in this economy, especially since the last few years' machines do the job perfectly well. That's why I mentioned technologies like DDR that really would take PowerMac performance to another level.
[quote]<strong>If this "Switchers" campaign does not produce results than I think that we can conclude that Apple has no real chance of DIRECTLY getting Windows users to move to the Mac.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes. And this is their biggest problem. Not anemic PowerMacs, because consumers don't buy most of those - design and press shops, studios and research labs do. Their problem is getting people to even look at them as an alternative, and once they do, they have to like what they see, and also feel reassured that they aren't taking a blind leap into the unknown, or getting a pretty machine that can't do what they want a computer to do. Apple is attacking this from several fronts because they have to, and more than one of them has to succeed.
[quote]<strong>So then what they need to do is go indirectly. Offer iPod for Windows. Sell iTunes, iMovie, and iPhoto for Windows cheaply or give them away free. If these differences don't get people to buy a Mac then Apple has to try to build a brand name with Windows users while they are using their Windows machine.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This might not be a bad idea simply because the more people see the Apple logo on their Windows box, the less fear they might have that Apple products live in their own little world.
[quote]<strong> Here's an interesting observation. The people who seem to think Apple is on shaky ground, such as me, Applenut, Nostradamus, and Junkyard Dawg all seem to quote actual sales statistics and long term trends.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I see no dispute over the numbers. It's a given in this thread, that Apple's sales are down, and it's known that the PowerMacs are not what they once were. Those of us that are hopeful are speculating about things that there are only rumors about (imagine that, on AppleInsider
I will only note that the "Apple is doomed" rhetoric has a 20 year long trend of being wrong. Apple survived 1996, and we aren't looking at 1996.
[ 06-18-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
People are holding back on purchasing the pro equipment. Until they see a definite speed boost at the right price they will stick with what they have for a little longer.
If Apple has something up their sleeves, you'd think MWNY would definitely be the time to unveil it.
Apple needs to stop milking old hardware technology and improve it to match their innovative software.
Keep giving us small speed bumps at high prices and that RDF will start to fade even amongst the Apple loyalists.
<strong>Actually, Apple is doomed. Saying otherwise is absurd. There is no truth in between.
Apple's demise poses only two questions: when and how.
Given recent trends, there will be no Apple Computer in 5 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Shut up.
<strong>Actually, Apple is doomed. Saying otherwise is absurd. There is no truth in between.
Apple's demise poses only two questions: when and how.
Given recent trends, there will be no Apple Computer in 5 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you really believe the ship is sinking, why are you still on board?
It just seems really odd that you would seek out a forum of apple devotees just to explain that apple is irreconcilably doomed to failure and a horrible death and there?s nothing anyone can do so we should just give up...
I sold all my PC gear 3 months ago, and I'm not going back. There are a lot of people here and elsewhere who feel the same. If you want to disagree, that's fine, but why troll here if you truely hate the company and the product in such a way?
<strong>Remember the clones? Apple had to pull the licenses because they were putting Apple out of business!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes! They were putting Apple out of business! Get it? That's why Apple can't clone!
Why won't people realize this
<a href="http://macnn.com/news.php?id=14809"; target="_blank">http://macnn.com/news.php?id=14809</a>;