Rumor: Apple deliberately delayed Tidal app updates to help Beats Music relaunch

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 95
    eideardeideard Posts: 427member
    A juvenile report from ego-smitten fools. Not worth inclusion even as back alley gossip.
  • Reply 62 of 95
    larryalarrya Posts: 591member



    Quote:


    Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

     

     

    Maybe that would be the case if the music was recorded in 256kbps in the first place. But in most cases, it's not. The music started out at a much higher bit rate and info was toss in order to make for smaller file sizes along the way. Info had to be toss in order to get what was on the master recording (not sure if they still use tape now of days.) so that the music can fit (and play) on a CD. And 75% of the info had to be toss in order to shrink the "lossless" file size on a CD to that of a 256kbps file. So the real question is not whether you can hear the difference between music on a CD and the same music on 256kbps AAC on a MP3 device, as the vast majority of the actual music wasn't tossed out. The real question is …... could you have heard the info that was tossed out, in order to shrink the CD music by 75% to 256kbps, on a good stereo system? Info that may be useful for imaging or ambience background noise or playing extended lows and highs on a good stereo system but useless for headphones on a MP3 player or the average stereo system.

     

    If you're listening to CD's on a stereo system that couldn't make use of the info that was tossed, then you will not hear a difference between a CD and 256kbps file and declare they sound the same. However, if you were listening to CD's on a stereo system that could make use of the info that was tossed, then you will hear a difference. Whether that difference matters or not, is up to the listener. (The cheaper the stereo system, the less it matters.)

     

    And there's no guarantee that hearing the toss info will actually make the music sound any better. To me, none of Rihanna music would sound any better from a CD on my high end stereo system, than from a bootlegged mono 32kbps file on an iPod. You need to toss out 100% of the info for that to happen. All the audiophile is trying to do is to play back as much info from their media as possible and as accurately as possible. They can't add any more info than what's already there. And in some cases, not all, playing those extra 75% of info that was tossed can easily be heard. But it may not always or maybe not most of the time, make the music sound any better. But for sure, they won't know if the info was tossed to make a 256kbps file in the first place. 

     

    So even if you heard just one CD that sounded better (or worst) than the 256kbps version of it, on a good stereo system, then the statement that 256kbps ACC is better than you can hear must be false. And the difference doesn't have to make the whole CD sound better or at the expense of music beyond our hearing ability. Just one instance of hearing the decay of a cymbal crash lasting a bit longer or the sound of a triangle being heard more clearly over the playing orchestra or the feeling that low bass is still being played, even if one can't hear it, is all it takes to count as a difference. I have heard that one CD, and my hearing is no where near perfect.

     

    That being said, I'm perfectly happy when listening to my music collection on an iPod, (thru a headphone amp and good headphones when possible) or on one of my average stereo systems. Even at 128kbps. 90% of my music listening is done this way. Good music transcends a good stereo system. Convenience matters. Our brain is funny in that we tend to hear our favorite music as we remember it from the best we heard it. Whether live, from a CD, tape or vinyl. So that even a compressed version will sound just as good as the version we remember, when played thru an iPod. (Of course if all you ever heard was the compressed 128kbps version on an iPod, then there is no missing info for your brain to fill in and it will sound as the way you always remembered it.)

     

    It's only about 5% (maybe less) of my music that I listen to on my high end system. Either from a CD or vinyl. The only streaming I trust are lossless files (AIFF) from CD's, in my Mac music server, to an Apple Express and using an iPad as a remote. Most of the times, I only want to listen to a few songs or just one, from a CD. (I use to get a lot more exercise, from switching CD's, when listening to music on my high end system.)  Even though nearly all of the music in my collection will benefit from being played on my high end system, (than on my average stereo systems or iPod), there's only about 5% that I really care to listen to, when as much info as my system can possibly extract is being played, because the difference it makes is worth it.  

     

    I bet not one person here will say that a CD sounds as good as the studio master it came from because a CD is also better than what we can hear. But just like listening to a CD of the studio master, when listening to a 256kbps version of a CD, it's not about the music that is there, it's about the "music" that is no longer there, that may matter. 


     

    I can buy detection of differences between a CD and perhaps even a high bitrate lossy compression...maybe.  But from studio master to CD?  With a sampling rate (frequency range) that is twice what a human ear can detect, at 65,000 levels of amplitude?  I have trouble believing that. 

  • Reply 63 of 95
    Or tidal is looking for publicity by stating this.
  • Reply 64 of 95
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wigby View Post





    Where do I find my local hi-fi shop? I'm not even sure I know what that is anymore? You do know that self-proclaimed music lovers cannot hear the difference between 256 AAC and uncompressed audio, right? In fact most of them picked iPhone audio over "technically superior" formats. I forget where but it was in a recent study released. Google it.



    But hey, I don't have a problem with someone buying expensive audio gear and using that money spent to convince themselves that it makes a difference. That mentality plays a role in many Apple purchases too. I just think a real music lover is actually into the convenience and variety of music much more than the ritual or buy in costs because those are the main differences between MP3 and high end audio files.

     

    Funny thing is even if your recorded this with at 192Khz 32 bits samples at 1 Mbs and played back on the most expensive playback + amplifier + speaker combo on the face of the earth, you'd still couldn't reliably pick this as better than 256 AAC

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by D.J. Adequate View Post





    I like higher quality streams. I don't hear a difference between the others, as all have basically the same quality streams. A company can say scientifically I'm wrong -- or the can charge me more and give me what I'm willing to pay for. Whether it's Tidal or someone else, I'm happy when someone offers what I like.



    No one tries to scientifically prove a fifteen dollar hamburger tastes better than a five dollar hamburger. I don't understand the hostility towards those of us who enjoy high end audio.

     

    Your $15 burger will at least taste different than the $5 ones (generally) by means humans (and not some $1000000 dollar sensor) can detect; different is not the same as better, but at least its detectable. In the case of sound, past a certain point, first only 12 year old virgin ears can ear the difference, and then if you push it farther, only bats, dogs and rats can hear the difference. I'm all for letting our little critters have fine sound, but not at any cost :-).

  • Reply 65 of 95

    Well, having the infamous Benjamin Frost in your sig is not exactly lending credence to your argument.
    Whatever happened to Frost? For that matter what happened to DroidFTW? I haven't seen either of them around here in a while.
  • Reply 66 of 95
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post





    Whatever happened to Frost? For that matter what happened to DroidFTW? I haven't seen either of them around here in a while.



    BF was perma-frosted (banned)

  • Reply 67 of 95
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    cnocbui wrote: »

    BF was perma-frosted (banned)

    He's in deep-freeze.
  • Reply 68 of 95
    bc2009bc2009 Posts: 40member
    Or...... Tidal app updates were delayed because App Store reviewers had to prioritize apps with Apple Watch support due to the impending launch of Apple Watch? Hmmm..... which is more plausible?
  • Reply 69 of 95
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    He's in deep-freeze.

    I even have a photographic proof.:lol:
    400
  • Reply 70 of 95
    gregqgregq Posts: 62member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clexman View Post

     

    If this is true, Apple and the music business are about to part ways. The DOJ will take Apple to court. It doesn't matter if Tidal fails or not.

     

    That said, I find it hard to believe that one of the most secretive companies in the world would be this dumb.


    I agree with this comment. I ddoubt that anyone in management would condone this, it wouldn't be worth the risk. Someone lower down the food chain wouldn't have a reason too. However, major problems if this is found to be true.

  • Reply 71 of 95
    chadmaticchadmatic Posts: 285member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wigby View Post





    Where do I find my local hi-fi shop? I'm not even sure I know what that is anymore? You do know that self-proclaimed music lovers cannot hear the difference between 256 AAC and uncompressed audio, right? In fact most of them picked iPhone audio over "technically superior" formats. I forget where but it was in a recent study released. Google it.

     

     

    If it's on the internet it must be true, especially if there is a study to back it up.  Did you know that besides having poor ears, humans can't tell the difference between potatoes and tomatoes?  It's true, there is a study on the internet that proves it... https://youtu.be/bGYs4KS_djg

  • Reply 72 of 95
    If true I can sense a lawsuit or government intervention coming down the line. This is the sort of thing Microsoft used to do and for which they've paid some hefty fines.
  • Reply 73 of 95
    wigbywigby Posts: 692member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chadmatic View Post

     

     

    If it's on the internet it must be true, especially if there is a study to back it up.  Did you know that besides having poor ears, humans can't tell the difference between potatoes and tomatoes?  It's true, there is a study on the internet that proves it... https://youtu.be/bGYs4KS_djg




    Thanks for the snark but would you prefer I make up a link? The truly good news is we don't need studies to tell us what sounds good and what's convenient and cost effective for listening to music. Unfortunately, some "experts" and trolls feel that the only way they can make a valid point is by backing it up with links and studies. I was trying to speak to both audiences but I see you are far more advanced than I thought. In case you missed it, that was my attempt at snark.

  • Reply 74 of 95
    As a developer waiting for an update to be approved on a couple of Apps, I can say they are taking far, far longer than they usually do. And the apps I am waiting on approval for have nothing to do with music, or Rhianna, for that matter.
    I smell something funny in those claims.
  • Reply 75 of 95
    shenshen Posts: 434member
    I'll out myself as "one of those, too " I don't judge you for not hearing a difference, but I definately do. Having Tidal as an option doesn't really harm you, and right now I like it better than Beats -- though I'm anxious to see what Apple does with it. I don't understand the "there can only be one" mentality.

    Extensive listening tests show that the difference you hear is exactly like the problems of the gluten intolerant. May I introduce you to the placebo effect. May you have a wonderful life together.
  • Reply 76 of 95
    shenshen Posts: 434member
    ny3ranger wrote: »
    Or tidal is looking for publicity by stating this.

    Based on the underwhelming response the pathetic also ran service for wealthy artists is receiving, they need all the publicity they can get.
  • Reply 77 of 95
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,912member
    clexman wrote: »
    If this is true, Apple and the music business are about to part ways. The DOJ will take Apple to court. It doesn't matter if Tidal fails or not.

    That said, I find it hard to believe that one of the most secretive companies in the world would be this dumb.

    That's absurd. Apple and the music business part ways? Are you on crack? The DOJ? Come on, man. The DOJ does t get involved in petty disputes.

    Incidentally, Tidal sucks. It's overpriced. That's why it's failing.
  • Reply 78 of 95
    shenshen Posts: 434member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post



    So Apple owns the ecosystem and they just might not allow competitors to some of THEIR core services on their system, or might slow them down when using APPLE'S infrastructure. And they shouldn't do this because....? Seriously, they have every right to slow down or block competitors. It's their system!!!!!!



    No. they really don't. Microsoft tried this argument as well. It isn't right, and shouldn't be allowed. Feel free to sign up for my ethics class.

     

    Having said that, it seems unlikely that Apple actually has done anything, so the point is moot.

  • Reply 79 of 95
    This may be true, I have an updated IPHONE6 and when I tried downloading TIDAL app, it kept kicking me out of APP store, I gave up after my third try.
  • Reply 80 of 95
    I
    shen wrote: »
    Extensive listening tests show that the difference you hear is exactly like the problems of the gluten intolerant. May I introduce you to the placebo effect. May you have a wonderful life together.

    Ironic example, since I have genetically verified Celiac disease. But, I don't feel the need to justify what I enjoy. I don't demand you enjoy it to.
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