"Compared to the Ion-X display, the sapphire cover reflects about twice as much ambient light. The sapphire on the Apple Watch is said to reflect about 8.2 percent of light, compared to just 4.6 percent with the Ion-X glass."
Actually, compared to the Ion-X display, the sapphire cover reflects about 78% more ambient light; not about twice as much (100% more).
Actually the sapphire both reflects and transmits light. Ideally one would want 100% transmission and 0% reflectance. In this case if the sapphire reflects about twice as much as the Ion-X glass (8.2% vs. 4.6%) the OLED screen below the sapphire would not be able to transmit as much light through the sapphire to the viewer. Also its top surface would have more reflected light interfering with the OLED light being transmitted through. Having increased reflectance is doubly bad for screens.
Well, it's the same for all quality watches with sapphire covers.
That's correct.
You compromise screen clarity to have an almost scratch proof screen. Worth it IMO.
I don't think clarity is the right word for this. The sapphire cover doesn't reduce clarity overall. It just reflects more light.
A watch face looks just as "clear" under glass as it does sapphire... until the glass gets scratched up anyway.
Just to be clear, you and I agree, I just don't think it is fair to say you "compromise screen clarity" with sapphire. Nor do I have a suggestion on what to call the sapphire vs glass reflectivity... other than hokum.
With enough scratches to the glass, you'll be hard pressed to see the screen well. That problem doesn't exist with sapphire over a watch face. Granted, you'll probably replace an Apple Watch Sport (or Apple Watch for that matter) well before the glass gets that scratched up.
If more light is reflected then, by definition, less is transmitted to the surface underneath, which then has less to reflect back through the button to the observer. It doesn't require any particular light source to illuminate it.
It has more to do with the source light (display) competing with reflected ambient light. Also a minuscule of the sources light (display) will be reflected back to the source (display).
If all this is a "problem", turn your wrist slightly so that it is not reflecting anything bright. "Problem" solved.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">I don't see it being a real practical issue for most, if not all, users.</span>
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">But the data in the article is probably real data. It's just not enough to get in a twist over, one way or the other.</span>
Yes - that is the actual issue under discussion, but I was responding to comments about the button on the white iPhone looking less white than the surround. Same cause - difference in the reflectance.
Soneira tried to act like he was a genius by claiming the Retina Display was not "retina" grade, and was promptly slapped down by real experts.
Wow, so your evidence that he has a bone to pick with Apple is that he disputed the retina claims made in 2010? What's retina and what isn't depends entirely on what assumptions you make about the viewer's eyesight and viewing distance. All Soneira did was point this out. Incidentally, Apple eventually did increase the resolution of the iPhone 6 Plus, which would have been unnecessary if the iPhone 4 were truly retina under all circumstances which of course it isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay
Accurate and relevant are not necessarily related.
What would be appropriate is a comparison with, for example, current iPhones and even Android Wear devices. There's nothing wrong with thorough testing, but his business is display testing, so the usual caveats for real world usage apply; YMMV.
Soneira is giving you the facts- sapphire is slightly more opaque than glass- and letting you decide if that impacts your decisions or not. Myself, I don't care about such slight effects. However, I don't fault him for sticking to the science and not telling me what to believe.
Well, it's the same for all quality watches with sapphire covers.
Isn't this also true of the sapphire covers on the iPhone cameras? If light reflection were truly a problem here, wouldn't that be a huge problem for a camera? Does the software compensate for this effect then?
There's no software correction - the lens is just a tad slower than if it did not include sapphire.
My Saphire display is just gorgeous. I’m sure everybody reading this article is all too well aware of the trend by some “experts” of finding fault no matter how subjective to garner clicks and eyeballs for their pages. Cynical nonsense.
Glad I ordered the Sport Edition, which btw arrived on Friday (4/27)
Still getting familiar with the watch and am presently surprised how light and comfortable it is. Used it on my run, this AM, and I really like being able to check status on my wrist as my iPhone is inconveniently in my running belt. I am under no illusions that this is a perfect product (when is any 1.0 version?), but I really am happy with it so far...
Okay so this guy took some measurements, but failed to explain how it will affect the end user. So what the sapphire reflect more light that is true for all sapphire crystals, it does not mean it affect how the person uses it.
I love how we get these people who publish numbers and say it worse, but can not say how it worse to the every day user. It like saying two car have two different 0 to 60 times but the mass majority of driver will never see the difference since they do not drag race.
A better way to put this, how does this have anything to do with the price of tea in china.
If more light is reflected then, by definition, less is transmitted to the surface underneath, which then has less to reflect back through the button to the observer. It doesn't require any particular light source to illuminate it.
Yeah, that's a good point. That will darken the appearance of the button.
Thank goodness for all of these "experts". Society would crumble without their opinions.
Experts are a dime a dozen. I can call myself an expert on any subject I choose and there’s no board, commission, review committee, authorizing organization to say no.
That being said my biggest concerns are the weak minds right here on AI ready to accept what anybody says if it jives with their preconceived biases. Some “expert” said so it must be true.
What a crock. I tried the SS watch in the store and the screen is brilliant! This is a total non-issue and certainly didn't deserve a whole article on it. Move on.
It's a long report, but doesn't tell me whether it will work for me.
A picture of all the different options side by side in different lighting would tell me a lot more.
Okay so this guy took some measurements, but failed to explain how it will affect the end user. So what the sapphire reflect more light that is true for all sapphire crystals, it does not mean it affect how the person uses it.
I love how we get these people who publish numbers and say it worse, but can not say how it worse to the every day user. It like saying two car have two different 0 to 60 times but the mass majority of driver will never see the difference since they do not drag race.
A better way to put this, how does this have anything to do with the price of tea in china.
I tried on both Apple Watches, with the sapphire and ion glass, in the store a few days ago. They looked exactly the same to me. I would have never known if someone hadn't made a point to tell me. Saw zero difference. I saw the colors, resolution, crisp text, animations exactly/perfectly the same. So, as far as real world usage, I don't think the difference will matter.
In person, the Apple Watch looks awesome, the Sapphire didn't make a difference to me. What stood out, was how tiny the watch was… But yet the screen still looks so clear, detailed, and fantastic. Felt like I had just gone into the future. It's amazing to know that an entire computer exists in that small of a package. After seeing that, and then the new MacBook, I knew Apple is headed somewhere good. They have the right idea, they're headed in a very clear direction with the help of Tim Cook and Johnny Ive. Their stock is just going to keep going up.
I tried on both Apple Watches, with the sapphire and ion glass, in the store a few days ago. They looked exactly the same to me. I would have never known if someone hadn't made a point to tell me. Saw zero difference. I saw the colors, resolution, crisp text, animations exactly/perfectly the same. So, as far as real world usage, I don't think the difference will matter.
Of course not. As this analysis states, the difference is less than 10%. Your eye isn't going to notice that. It's like the difference between 100 Watt bulbs and 90 Watt ones. Soneira never said the issue was a deal breaker.
Comments
Neil Hughes wrote:
"Compared to the Ion-X display, the sapphire cover reflects about twice as much ambient light. The sapphire on the Apple Watch is said to reflect about 8.2 percent of light, compared to just 4.6 percent with the Ion-X glass."
Actually, compared to the Ion-X display, the sapphire cover reflects about 78% more ambient light; not about twice as much (100% more).
Actually the sapphire both reflects and transmits light. Ideally one would want 100% transmission and 0% reflectance. In this case if the sapphire reflects about twice as much as the Ion-X glass (8.2% vs. 4.6%) the OLED screen below the sapphire would not be able to transmit as much light through the sapphire to the viewer. Also its top surface would have more reflected light interfering with the OLED light being transmitted through. Having increased reflectance is doubly bad for screens.
Oh no, a less than 4% difference in the reflectance. Apple is doomed or something.
Well, it's the same for all quality watches with sapphire covers.
That's correct.
You compromise screen clarity to have an almost scratch proof screen. Worth it IMO.
I don't think clarity is the right word for this. The sapphire cover doesn't reduce clarity overall. It just reflects more light.
A watch face looks just as "clear" under glass as it does sapphire... until the glass gets scratched up anyway.
Just to be clear, you and I agree, I just don't think it is fair to say you "compromise screen clarity" with sapphire. Nor do I have a suggestion on what to call the sapphire vs glass reflectivity... other than hokum.
With enough scratches to the glass, you'll be hard pressed to see the screen well. That problem doesn't exist with sapphire over a watch face. Granted, you'll probably replace an Apple Watch Sport (or Apple Watch for that matter) well before the glass gets that scratched up.
Yes - that is the actual issue under discussion, but I was responding to comments about the button on the white iPhone looking less white than the surround. Same cause - difference in the reflectance.
Soneira tried to act like he was a genius by claiming the Retina Display was not "retina" grade, and was promptly slapped down by real experts.
Wow, so your evidence that he has a bone to pick with Apple is that he disputed the retina claims made in 2010? What's retina and what isn't depends entirely on what assumptions you make about the viewer's eyesight and viewing distance. All Soneira did was point this out. Incidentally, Apple eventually did increase the resolution of the iPhone 6 Plus, which would have been unnecessary if the iPhone 4 were truly retina under all circumstances which of course it isn't.
Accurate and relevant are not necessarily related.
What would be appropriate is a comparison with, for example, current iPhones and even Android Wear devices. There's nothing wrong with thorough testing, but his business is display testing, so the usual caveats for real world usage apply; YMMV.
Soneira is giving you the facts- sapphire is slightly more opaque than glass- and letting you decide if that impacts your decisions or not. Myself, I don't care about such slight effects. However, I don't fault him for sticking to the science and not telling me what to believe.
There's no software correction - the lens is just a tad slower than if it did not include sapphire.
My Saphire display is just gorgeous. I’m sure everybody reading this article is all too well aware of the trend by some “experts” of finding fault no matter how subjective to garner clicks and eyeballs for their pages. Cynical nonsense.
Glad I ordered the Sport Edition, which btw arrived on Friday (4/27)
Still getting familiar with the watch and am presently surprised how light and comfortable it is. Used it on my run, this AM, and I really like being able to check status on my wrist as my iPhone is inconveniently in my running belt. I am under no illusions that this is a perfect product (when is any 1.0 version?), but I really am happy with it so far...
I love how we get these people who publish numbers and say it worse, but can not say how it worse to the every day user. It like saying two car have two different 0 to 60 times but the mass majority of driver will never see the difference since they do not drag race.
A better way to put this, how does this have anything to do with the price of tea in china.
If more light is reflected then, by definition, less is transmitted to the surface underneath, which then has less to reflect back through the button to the observer. It doesn't require any particular light source to illuminate it.
Yeah, that's a good point. That will darken the appearance of the button.
Glass-like display reflects light!
Egad!
Sell your stock now!
Thank goodness for all of these "experts". Society would crumble without their opinions.
Experts are a dime a dozen. I can call myself an expert on any subject I choose and there’s no board, commission, review committee, authorizing organization to say no.
That being said my biggest concerns are the weak minds right here on AI ready to accept what anybody says if it jives with their preconceived biases. Some “expert” said so it must be true.
Thank goodness for all of these "experts". Society would crumble without their opinions.
I wouldn't have believed it but the comparison photos said it all...
I tried on both Apple Watches, with the sapphire and ion glass, in the store a few days ago. They looked exactly the same to me. I would have never known if someone hadn't made a point to tell me. Saw zero difference. I saw the colors, resolution, crisp text, animations exactly/perfectly the same. So, as far as real world usage, I don't think the difference will matter.
I tried on both Apple Watches, with the sapphire and ion glass, in the store a few days ago. They looked exactly the same to me. I would have never known if someone hadn't made a point to tell me. Saw zero difference. I saw the colors, resolution, crisp text, animations exactly/perfectly the same. So, as far as real world usage, I don't think the difference will matter.
Of course not. As this analysis states, the difference is less than 10%. Your eye isn't going to notice that. It's like the difference between 100 Watt bulbs and 90 Watt ones. Soneira never said the issue was a deal breaker.
Well, it's the same for all quality watches with sapphire covers.
But it's only a story when it embarrasses Apple!
Also thank goodness Raymond doesn't have a bone to pick with Apple...wait...
Well, I think what he says is pretty correct, looking at mine. Also, it doesn't matter. It's a Watch, not a TV or computer or even phone.
I do think however that his point is "using sapphire on an iphone 7S is not happening". Maybe I misunderstood...