You left out the part about massive financial losses and vaporizing margins...
Exactly!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53
When do we get to see a breakdown of Samsung "smartphone" models? I'd like to see how many of them are actually simply throwaway feature phones.
Indeed. Or just really crappy smartphones. It's amazing...Apple sells what...4 models of phones? The 6 and 6 plus are basically the same phone with a different display and a few other tweaks. So they really sell three models. Samsung sells literally dozens. According to CNN Money, Samsun released 52 "unique" smartphones in 2014 alone. Holy crap! I mean, that is truly amazing.
I get what you are saying that Apple is making more money but the fact is that Samsung is still making $3B last quarter in profits and they made $5.63 billion this quarter. Samsung is still making a huge amount of money regardless of Apple making more. The whole point of a company is to make a profit. Samsung is making a ton of it. Apple is just making more.
More? Um, Apple literally made 2,5 times as much last quarter. And Samung making billions is not indicative of the health of their mobile division, whose profits have been plunging. Their profits fell 74 percent in the mobile division at the end of 2014. 74 percent! The bottom line is Samsung has major issues with its mobile business. It's just that they have deep enough pockets. How long do you think they will be able to survive losing profits like that? If trends continue, Samung won't have a mobile division in less than 5 years.
Uhh DoD or DoD contractors that work in a top secret area?
Most of my friends in DC can not have a phone with a camera on it while at work.
Getting very difficult for them to find a cell phone that they can keep with them in these controlled areas. Might be a market there? Charge a premium, they have no choice if they want a cell phone.
It doesn't say shipments or sales on their chart, which I am interpreting as sales so you don't have to apologize for your 61.6M (actually 61.7M) iPhones sold.
No.
They increased channel inventory by 1M.
And they sold 13.6M iPads as they reduced channel inventory by 1M.
Apple does report shipments.
This is why you should attend the quarterly conference calls.
It's where Cook & Maestri show you the whole picture.
You left out the part about massive financial losses and vaporizing margins...
Or that most of the phones sold are the low end to Mid range which is why profits are dropping!!! When Apple is making 89% of the Smartphone profits yet only has 20% of the Smartphone market, Samsung had been making 10% of the profits, and everyone else, break even to razer this profits. Android has been a race to the bottom in profits where no one has been making money except Samsung really and they're making even less now. The only one who truly wins with Android is Google. Quite frankly, they don't care if you make a profit. Someone else can come along and try making Android phones for all Google cares.
Here's Simple terms that Fandroids don't seem to understand. I'm keep it really simple. Apple sells 1 iphone and makes $50 profit. Android (That's everyone) sells a ZILLION Android phones and broke even. Who won??? Well Apple did. They actually made $50 and did it selling just 1 phone!!! Fandroids would say Android one because a Zillion sold phones beats 1 iphone!!!
Take it to the next level. Apple Sells 10 iPhones and made $500. Android sold 10 ZILLION Android Phones and broke even. I'd take the $500 then working my butt off making 10 zillion phones with nothing to show for it!!!! What did that 10 zillion Android phones get you? Well you WON on market share for whatever that's worth. Really, not a whole lot. If all things were equal, market share would matter far more, but things are far from equal. Why fandroids can't see this? As guess they don't care, they got their cheap Android phone. Nothing wrong with cheap as long as you're making a profit. Windows PC's for years have been making razer thin profits, but still profits. The PC market has also shrunk over the years!!! In time that will have to happen with Android. There goes all the choices to a few.
Apple thought that WinPhone and Nokia (or BlackBerry) were the evil empire they would have to take on in Phone Wars, but instead it turned out to be Android/Samsung.
In the end, Samsung looks like it's 'failing' only because it's playing a different game than Apple. [Carrier commodity phones vs an ecosystem]. One needs to watch out as when Samsung ever gets an ecosystem where they can retain slightly more consumers than Apple, their installed base could quickly make Apple a 10% player. But 10% of a 1-3Billion phones a year... still a big number;-)
for the "I wish Samsung would just die...." crowd, Apple/iOS users probably needs a samsung/android to survive for several reasons:
1) just to avoid any monopolistic hoo-haa in the US and EU markets.
2) To highlight bad design vs good design
3) free 'market research' into usability trends [a petrie dish of hundreds of shapes and form factors and new functions]
Apple doesn't deliver first, but it tries to deliver 'better' on the cusp of market 'desire.'
4) cheap 'first' smartphones ['my dad bought me this crap phone... when I grow up, I'm gonna buy an iPhone!!!']
Last) to drive some level of competitive paranoia in the design and manufacturing teams.
Samsung can NEVER have a ecosystem. They keep trying, but the fact remains, they don't own Android!!! Google does!!! No one wants to use a 3rd party service with Android except those in China running forked versions of Android, everywhere else, everyone wants to use Googles services, Ecosystem!!!!
Samsung dying and Android dying are 2 different things!!! Quite frankly, I'd be all for Blackberry eating up 20% of Androids market!!! I don't have a issue with say HTC. They're been innovative over the years and not flat out copying Apple like Samsung keeps doing. Samsung disappears, there's lots of others to come in and take their place!!!
Or that most of the phones sold are the low end to Mid range which is why profits are dropping!!! When Apple is making 89% of the Smartphone profits yet only has 20% of the Smartphone market, Samsung had been making 10% of the profits, and everyone else, break even to razer this profits. Android has been a race to the bottom in profits where no one has been making money except Samsung really and they're making even less now. The only one who truly wins with Android is Google. Quite frankly, they don't care if you make a profit. Someone else can come along and try making Android phones for all Google cares.
Here's Simple terms that Fandroids don't seem to understand. I'm keep it really simple. Apple sells 1 iphone and makes $50 profit. Android (That's everyone) sells a ZILLION Android phones and broke even. Who won??? Well Apple did. They actually made $50 and did it selling just 1 phone!!! Fandroids would say Android one because a Zillion sold phones beats 1 iphone!!!
Take it to the next level. Apple Sells 10 iPhones and made $500. Android sold 10 ZILLION Android Phones and broke even. I'd take the $500 then working my butt off making 10 zillion phones with nothing to show for it!!!! What did that 10 zillion Android phones get you? Well you WON on market share for whatever that's worth. Really, not a whole lot. If all things were equal, market share would matter far more, but things are far from equal. Why fandroids can't see this? As guess they don't care, they got their cheap Android phone. Nothing wrong with cheap as long as you're making a profit. Windows PC's for years have been making razer thin profits, but still profits. The PC market has also shrunk over the years!!! In time that will have to happen with Android. There goes all the choices to a few.
So what's the answer? You're regurgitating what's already known.
I’m an addicted iFanboy and have been since 1982 (Apple II+) but even I am getting tired of my own bias. I’m getting tired of the “mine is bigger than yours” arguments from both sides. Revenue, market cap, EPS, P/E ratios, sales, shipments, spec sheets, YouTube videos, Android peeing on iOS, analyst’s predictions of doom for either side.
I am going to try real hard to just enjoy my Apple products, keep an open mind if something better were to come along, live and let live, and not care who is on top at the moment.
I will try, I will try, I will try...
In this context it's about what you think makes you a better human being, above others, and if you think it's a freaking type of phone/PC you own then everything you listed will become a confirmation of that - in a sense of winning a holy war of good vs. evil and all that BS. The reality is - Apple is about craftsmanship and selling products rather than technology, and it just so happens that a lot of people prefer a finished product instead of a box of lego that allows fullfilling one's failed engineering aspirations by letting you rebuild a kernel, root a phone, tweak internal things via holes in the API (directly or via 3rd party apps that do it for you), etc etc. It's two distinct mindsets, one talking about "the most personal device" and another about "MHz, RAM size, megapixels".
"Samsung sold 99 million phones with an ASP of $200 (according to Samsung). That means those 83 million devices Samsung calls smartphones could have an ASP of no more than $240 (or so). Compared to $659 for Apple."
So, Samsung can do what Apple does for a fraction of the price. I guess that's why Apple go to Samsung to get their own stuff made.
I can ship more smart phones than Apple...it doesn't mean anyone is buying them.
No you cannot. You don't have the money, the skills, the logistics and the sales network to do that. And most probably, because you think you can, you don't have the brains neither.
Or that most of the phones sold are the low end to Mid range which is why profits are dropping!!! When Apple is making 89% of the Smartphone profits yet only has 20% of the Smartphone market, Samsung had been making 10% of the profits, and everyone else, break even to razer this profits.
When this figure was published, Apple was making 90% of the all "profits - losses", not 90% of the profits, only the around 70% of all the profits. Samsung was making 20% of the profits and the rest around 10%. Some companies were making huge losses (like Microsoft with Windows Phone) and these companies were skewing the figures considerably.
2 additional remarks:
- When this figure was published, Samsung had it worst quarter, so we can assume that this 90% figure is currently no longer correct.
- Most companies (like Apple and Samsung) don't publish profits per division. So while there is no doubt that the lion share of smartphone profits are for Apple, a lot of guessing is involved to come up with smartphone profit figures and marketshare.
Despite strong iPhone sales, Samsung was able to top Apple in terms of smartphone shipments during the March quarter and reclaim market leadership, research firm Strategy Analytics said on Wednesday.
Samsung was estimated to have shipped 83.2 million smartphones, giving it a 24 percent marketshare. That put it above Apple's 17.7 percent share, based on sales of approximately 61.2 million iPhones announced on Monday.
OK, more click bait. When did “estimate smartphone shipments” = SALES. Carrying this straw man a little further, the fake sales results in "reclaim market leadership”.
OK, more click bait. When did “estimate smartphone shipments” = SALES. Carrying this straw man a little further, the fake sales results in "reclaim market leadership”.
Comments
What kind of god forsaken place do you work in?
Some kind of criminal organization?
Just a wild guess, but ever heard of Incirlik Air Base?
You left out the part about massive financial losses and vaporizing margins...
Exactly!
When do we get to see a breakdown of Samsung "smartphone" models? I'd like to see how many of them are actually simply throwaway feature phones.
Indeed. Or just really crappy smartphones. It's amazing...Apple sells what...4 models of phones? The 6 and 6 plus are basically the same phone with a different display and a few other tweaks. So they really sell three models. Samsung sells literally dozens. According to CNN Money, Samsun released 52 "unique" smartphones in 2014 alone. Holy crap! I mean, that is truly amazing.
I get what you are saying that Apple is making more money but the fact is that Samsung is still making $3B last quarter in profits and they made $5.63 billion this quarter. Samsung is still making a huge amount of money regardless of Apple making more. The whole point of a company is to make a profit. Samsung is making a ton of it. Apple is just making more.
More? Um, Apple literally made 2,5 times as much last quarter. And Samung making billions is not indicative of the health of their mobile division, whose profits have been plunging. Their profits fell 74 percent in the mobile division at the end of 2014. 74 percent! The bottom line is Samsung has major issues with its mobile business. It's just that they have deep enough pockets. How long do you think they will be able to survive losing profits like that? If trends continue, Samung won't have a mobile division in less than 5 years.
What kind of god forsaken place do you work in?
Uhh DoD or DoD contractors that work in a top secret area?
Most of my friends in DC can not have a phone with a camera on it while at work.
Getting very difficult for them to find a cell phone that they can keep with them in these controlled areas. Might be a market there? Charge a premium, they have no choice if they want a cell phone.
It doesn't say shipments or sales on their chart, which I am interpreting as sales so you don't have to apologize for your 61.6M (actually 61.7M) iPhones sold.
No.
They increased channel inventory by 1M.
And they sold 13.6M iPads as they reduced channel inventory by 1M.
Apple does report shipments.
This is why you should attend the quarterly conference calls.
It's where Cook & Maestri show you the whole picture.
You left out the part about massive financial losses and vaporizing margins...
Or that most of the phones sold are the low end to Mid range which is why profits are dropping!!! When Apple is making 89% of the Smartphone profits yet only has 20% of the Smartphone market, Samsung had been making 10% of the profits, and everyone else, break even to razer this profits. Android has been a race to the bottom in profits where no one has been making money except Samsung really and they're making even less now. The only one who truly wins with Android is Google. Quite frankly, they don't care if you make a profit. Someone else can come along and try making Android phones for all Google cares.
Here's Simple terms that Fandroids don't seem to understand. I'm keep it really simple. Apple sells 1 iphone and makes $50 profit. Android (That's everyone) sells a ZILLION Android phones and broke even. Who won??? Well Apple did. They actually made $50 and did it selling just 1 phone!!! Fandroids would say Android one because a Zillion sold phones beats 1 iphone!!!
Take it to the next level. Apple Sells 10 iPhones and made $500. Android sold 10 ZILLION Android Phones and broke even. I'd take the $500 then working my butt off making 10 zillion phones with nothing to show for it!!!! What did that 10 zillion Android phones get you? Well you WON on market share for whatever that's worth. Really, not a whole lot. If all things were equal, market share would matter far more, but things are far from equal. Why fandroids can't see this? As guess they don't care, they got their cheap Android phone. Nothing wrong with cheap as long as you're making a profit. Windows PC's for years have been making razer thin profits, but still profits. The PC market has also shrunk over the years!!! In time that will have to happen with Android. There goes all the choices to a few.
Apple thought that WinPhone and Nokia (or BlackBerry) were the evil empire they would have to take on in Phone Wars, but instead it turned out to be Android/Samsung.
In the end, Samsung looks like it's 'failing' only because it's playing a different game than Apple. [Carrier commodity phones vs an ecosystem]. One needs to watch out as when Samsung ever gets an ecosystem where they can retain slightly more consumers than Apple, their installed base could quickly make Apple a 10% player. But 10% of a 1-3Billion phones a year... still a big number;-)
for the "I wish Samsung would just die...." crowd, Apple/iOS users probably needs a samsung/android to survive for several reasons:
1) just to avoid any monopolistic hoo-haa in the US and EU markets.
2) To highlight bad design vs good design
3) free 'market research' into usability trends [a petrie dish of hundreds of shapes and form factors and new functions]
Apple doesn't deliver first, but it tries to deliver 'better' on the cusp of market 'desire.'
4) cheap 'first' smartphones ['my dad bought me this crap phone... when I grow up, I'm gonna buy an iPhone!!!']
Last) to drive some level of competitive paranoia in the design and manufacturing teams.
Samsung can NEVER have a ecosystem. They keep trying, but the fact remains, they don't own Android!!! Google does!!! No one wants to use a 3rd party service with Android except those in China running forked versions of Android, everywhere else, everyone wants to use Googles services, Ecosystem!!!!
Samsung dying and Android dying are 2 different things!!! Quite frankly, I'd be all for Blackberry eating up 20% of Androids market!!! I don't have a issue with say HTC. They're been innovative over the years and not flat out copying Apple like Samsung keeps doing. Samsung disappears, there's lots of others to come in and take their place!!!
So what's the answer? You're regurgitating what's already known.
In this context it's about what you think makes you a better human being, above others, and if you think it's a freaking type of phone/PC you own then everything you listed will become a confirmation of that - in a sense of winning a holy war of good vs. evil and all that BS. The reality is - Apple is about craftsmanship and selling products rather than technology, and it just so happens that a lot of people prefer a finished product instead of a box of lego that allows fullfilling one's failed engineering aspirations by letting you rebuild a kernel, root a phone, tweak internal things via holes in the API (directly or via 3rd party apps that do it for you), etc etc. It's two distinct mindsets, one talking about "the most personal device" and another about "MHz, RAM size, megapixels".
So, Samsung can do what Apple does for a fraction of the price. I guess that's why Apple go to Samsung to get their own stuff made.
10.5 million Lumia phones in last quarter. Not much, but best Lumia quarter so far.
I can ship more smart phones than Apple...it doesn't mean anyone is buying them.
No you cannot. You don't have the money, the skills, the logistics and the sales network to do that. And most probably, because you think you can, you don't have the brains neither.
Or that most of the phones sold are the low end to Mid range which is why profits are dropping!!! When Apple is making 89% of the Smartphone profits yet only has 20% of the Smartphone market, Samsung had been making 10% of the profits, and everyone else, break even to razer this profits.
When this figure was published, Apple was making 90% of the all "profits - losses", not 90% of the profits, only the around 70% of all the profits. Samsung was making 20% of the profits and the rest around 10%. Some companies were making huge losses (like Microsoft with Windows Phone) and these companies were skewing the figures considerably.
2 additional remarks:
- When this figure was published, Samsung had it worst quarter, so we can assume that this 90% figure is currently no longer correct.
- Most companies (like Apple and Samsung) don't publish profits per division. So while there is no doubt that the lion share of smartphone profits are for Apple, a lot of guessing is involved to come up with smartphone profit figures and marketshare.
Quote: Samsung Q1, 2015 Financial Earnings Report
[Q1 Results]
? Mobile : Earnings improved QoQ due to decreased marketing expenses and
expansion of new mid/low-end smartphones (e.g. A/E/J) ;
Revenue declined slightly QoQ due to decreased shipments of tablet and feature-phones
? Marketing expenses decreased due to seasonality and stabilized inventory
- Smartphone: Shipments increased QoQ led by mid to low-end products, ASP declined QoQ
? Network: Revenue declined QoQ due to decreased investment in LTE network by overseas carriers
[2Q Outlook]
? Market: Expect smartphone and tablet demand to stagnate due to continued weak seasonality
? SEC: Expect earnings improvement led by increased high-end sales with S6 global expansion,
while smartphone shipments to remain at similar level due to decreased mid/low-end sales;
Expect marketing expenses to increase due to S6 expansion
[’15 Outlook]
? Market: Expect product/marketing competitions to intensify amid a slowdown of smartphone growth;
Risk for weaker demand exists due to exchange rate impact (e.g. weak €)
? SEC: Pursue smartphone shipments growth by enhancing product competitiveness;
Enhance R&D/marketing cost efficiency by streamlining line ups
Despite strong iPhone sales, Samsung was able to top Apple in terms of smartphone shipments during the March quarter and reclaim market leadership, research firm Strategy Analytics said on Wednesday.
OK, more click bait. When did “estimate smartphone shipments” = SALES. Carrying this straw man a little further, the fake sales results in "reclaim market leadership”.
Poor Samsung that this creates news..
Someone's paying attention!