Why doesn't the industry go MiniDisc?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
One question...



Why doesn't the computing industry go MiniDisc? I've never understood the advantages of using the larger and easier damaged CDs. MiniDiscs all very recordable and they're all very write-protectable, so what's the deal? They're only a few more cents a pop.



:confused:



Another idea is the blue laser CD, but only if it comes in a cartridge like the MiniDisc.



Perhpas Apple should take the initiative to include a MiniDisc drive in new PowerMacs. Let's mail Steve Jobs!



[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: DanRuleUniverse ]



[edit by Amorph: Changed title]



[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    sizzle chestsizzle chest Posts: 1,133member
    Minidiscs are more expensive and have less capacity. "A few cents more?" Where are you shopping for CDRs?
  • Reply 2 of 25
    jambojambo Posts: 3,036member
    Please use a more descriptive thread title like 'MiniDiscs in PowerMacs' or something that will give us half a clue about what you're going to be talking about.



    Thaaaaaaaaaaaaanks!
  • Reply 2 of 25
    The MiniDiscs I see record a full 80 minutes of raw audio. How's that less?



    Personally, I'd be willing to pay a little more for a MiniDisc that fits in my pocket.
  • Reply 4 of 25
    [quote]Originally posted by Jamie:

    <strong>Please use a more descriptive thread title like 'MiniDiscs in PowerMacs' or something that will give us half a clue about what you're going to be talking about.



    Thaaaaaaaaaaaaanks! </strong><hr></blockquote>



    My bad.
  • Reply 5 of 25
    Well, first of all, something called quality... The bitrate of MD is a ton lower than cd (I believe they hold 340 megs) Then of course like was mentioned, price.. 2 bucks as compared to a few cents. Sony owns this medium, and it is compressed in the proprietary Atrac format, which is aging as well. I could see some of the newer half size discs taking over though, like the blue light thing. But MD I think has too many shortcomings: a good idea for its time, but something that will never catch on majorly, although it will continue to have a small following.
  • Reply 6 of 25
    Sorry. Minidiscs do not contain 80 minutes of raw audio. They only have ~128 MB of capacity. 80 minutes is lossy compression. I can't remember the compression standard used. I used to work at Sony, and we got to play with the MDs when they were beta. Pretty cool stuff, but definitely not as large a capacity as CD.
  • Reply 7 of 25
    jambojambo Posts: 3,036member
    [quote]Originally posted by DanRuleUniverse:

    <strong>



    My bad.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yeah I know.



    Please click the 'Edit' button on you original post and change it.



    Thanks again.
  • Reply 8 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,258member
    Minidisc had potential. I bought a MDS 501 deck years ago and loved it.



    Sony screwed up though. They tried to market MD 140MB drives that were incompatible with the Audio Discs and they came out with 140MB MD-DATA discs at $25 a pop.



    Sony's greed and lack of vision prevented MD from hitting critical mass. I will support the format until it's death but recently Sony has only prolonged this inevitable death with that advent of small HD and more competitors in the Compressed Audio expertise.
  • Reply 9 of 25
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Moving to General Discussion.
  • Reply 10 of 25
    You get 80 minutes of music on a MiniDisc because of the ATRAC compression, not because it has 700 MB. I've seen ATRAC compared to MP3 at 192kb.



    Fujitsu has carried on the magneto-optical flag. Their DynaMO line has 3.5" 2.3 and 1.3 GB MO disks.



    MO disks are pokier than hard drives, but I like using them to do my backups. My Docs exceed a CD-RW, but is okay with a 1.3GB MO.



    I'm not so big on removables anymore. I'd rather have a Firefly (for example) and have all that stuff with me all the time.
  • Reply 11 of 25
    cliveclive Posts: 720member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>Sony's greed and lack of vision prevented MD from hitting critical mass. I will support the format until it's death but recently Sony has only prolonged this inevitable death with that advent of small HD and more competitors in the Compressed Audio expertise.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Sorry, that's not true. the reason for the split between the data Md and the music MD was, predictably enough, due to the music business. They were afraid of having mixed data and music formats, where people could make digital duplicates on computers.



    So, they exerted pressure on Sony to split the format.



    ironically the data format disks are used extensively in the music industry for mastering.
  • Reply 12 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,258member
    Clive...yes hence my "lack of vision" statement.



    It's a conflict of interest to own a Music Publishing arm and also have an arm that creates products that could underminde each other. That made absol no sense but it'll have to do
  • Reply 13 of 25
    crusadercrusader Posts: 1,129member
    Excuse my ignorance in the "Mini" storage arena but wouldn't MiniCDs be the way to go?



    MiniCD\t\tMiniDisk

    185 MB\t\t160 MB

    $2.00 (RW)\t\t$3.50 Per Disk

    20 Min\t\t80 Min



    The only major disadvatage is the 20 min of audio, but using MiniCD mp3 players, MiniCDs are back on top. Plus MiniCDs can be used in almost any computer unlike MiniDisks. When MiniDVDs come out for recording... drool...



    [ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Crusader ]</p>
  • Reply 14 of 25
    ihxoihxo Posts: 562member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>Sony's greed and lack of vision prevented MD from hitting critical mass. I will support the format until it's death but recently Sony has only prolonged this inevitable death with that advent of small HD and more competitors in the Compressed Audio expertise.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    This is so not true, Sony's greed and lack of vision didn't prevent Minidic from hitting critical Mass in Asia and Europe, Most people in asia got at least one or maybe 2 Minidisc player. The Anti-minidisc thing I believe is an American thing.
  • Reply 15 of 25
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    I had the impression that Sony wanted to control the minidisc market much the same way it tried to control the betamax market. And we all had betamax players, right? Compare how Sony controls its storage media (memory sticks, betamax, minidiscs) to how a company liike Philips does it (VHS, CD, DVD, etc.)



    I could be wrong because I just haven't done the homework, but my impression is that mass media products don't do so well when their licensing, manufacture and distribution is so tightly controlled. Of course, all Cds are in fact certified as conforming to the Compact Disc license (that little logo), but they're not restrictive practices beyond such conformity to specs.
  • Reply 16 of 25
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    yep, miniCD's can be used without trouble in almost any computer except a slot load mac. Slot load, and expensive gimmick best done away with.



    As for the future of audio, I think that <a href="http://www.dataplay.com"; target="_blank">DataPlay</a> has a real shot at fusing the advantages of CD, compressed music, first party distribution, consumer recording, and a very small size. These tiny (loonie-sized - Ask a Canuk to explain it) can hold 500MB, and the drive that plays/records them is hardly bigger than a thick PC-Card. Combine 500MB with MPEG-4 and you have a lot of good quality sound in a small format. You could practically fit a whole CD in there with minimal compression.
  • Reply 17 of 25
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,321member
    I still dearly love my mini-disc collection that I keep with me in my car. BUT, I -have- seen the future and its name is iPod. I set one up for a director recently and was mightily impressed with the entire experience. When it can easily be hooked into an automobile audio system via wiring, not a crappy audio to cassette workaround, I'll be in line to buy one.



    Until then, the mini-discs continue their workhorse duties....tough little buggers that they are!



    D
  • Reply 18 of 25
    digixdigix Posts: 109member
    Yes. MiniCD (8 cm / 3 inch)!



    I like the 8 cm (3 inch / MiniCD) format. While this format don't have much popularity in countries such as the United States, but in countries such as Japan (then again, maybe currently it's only Japan?), they release songs in CD singles (8 cm format). Usually, it's only one or two songs per CD single, plus an extra track or two for the karaoke version of the song(s).



    And the packaging. Ahh... When in the term of cutesy in packaging, Japan is quite good. The whole package look like a brochure.



    And this popularity of the 8 cm format in Japan is also probably one of the reasons on why the current Nintendo's Gamecube uses a proprietary (designed in conjuction with Panasonic) MiniDVD-like (in 8 cm format) format that can contain around 1.5 Gigabytes of data.



    For a compact size. 8 cm CD is it



    The cute thing is that... an 8 cm (3 inch) CD is kinda like a 3.5 inch Floppy Disk. While the 12 cm (5 inch) is kinda like a 5.25 inch Floppy Disk.



    If ever Apple ever wanted a sort of Digital Hub Family Computer device. Chances it probably will use an 8 cm format like the Nintendo Gamecube. Maybe for the Macintosh's 20th anniversary? To mimick the first Macintosh use of the 3.5 inch Floppy Disk.



    / - /



    As for using an 8 cm CD into a slot loading Macintosh.



    I think that you can load an 8 cm CD into a slot loading Macintosh (except the Gigabit Ethernet PowerBook G4).



    What the slot loading Macintosh can't load is... irregular shape and size CDs.



    At least that's according to the Apple Knowledge Base article.



    <a href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58641"; target="_blank">http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58641</a>;



    The title of the article is ?Macintosh: Using Nonstandard Discs in CD-ROM or DVD-ROM Drives?.



    The article number is ?58641?.



    The article is created in ?6/1/00? and modified in ?4/29/02?



    ?

    Standard size and shape discs



    The 80 mm and 120 mm round discs are the only size and shape that work with slot loading or slotted tray CD-ROM and DVD-ROM drives. See Figures 1 and 2.

    ?



    ?

    Nonstandard size and shape discs



    Discs of the following sizes and shapes work only with drives that have a flat carrier tray such as certain Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics) computers. The discs do not work with slot loading CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drives. See Figure 3.

    ?



    ?

    The PowerBook G4 (Gigabit Ethernet) computer will not accept an 80 mm round disc.

    ?



    / - /



    Anyway. Back to Sony MiniDisc.



    I like the MiniDisc format, it's sorta like a mini Floppy Disk.



    Like it's first said in this topic, it's very recordable (like the Floppy Disk), its data is less easier damaged due scratches (it has a hard shell like the 3.5 Floppy Disk), and it's write protectable (like the Floppy Disk).



    Though there are currently other medias that kinda replaced the Floppy Disk, like Iomega's Zip.
  • Reply 19 of 25
    Oh, yes, I forgot about the Zip. And the Zip drive, in all its wonderful purpleness.



    Anyway, the point I'm trying to get across is that there really isn't a mainstream portable data drive anymore. Compact Discs are just too big in my opinion, and the elimination of the internal Zip drive from PowerMacs in my opinion was a step backwards. I think it's time that computer companies really give MiniDisc/Zip Disc some serious consideration.



    I also mentioned Philips's blue laser discs. <a href="http://www.press.ce.philips.com/press/20020220_248.html"; target="_blank">This article</a> discusses them. A disc the size of a standard CD/DVD can hold 27GB of data. Now that's a technology to look into.
  • Reply 20 of 25
    neutrino23neutrino23 Posts: 1,525member
    I think MD has seen its day and will start a long decline. I have a stack of MDs that I haven't used in over six months. Now music gets recorded directly to the powerbook and changed to MP3 format. Once I get my iPod the MD is totally gone.

    Interestingly enough, the other day I saw a TV ad for a Sony laptop with a builtin MD drive which could write at 32x speed. Five years ago that would have been cool. Now it is way too late. MDs just don't hold enough data. 150MB is too small.



    In Japan most computer users use MO drives for backup and for sharing files by sneakernet. Similar technology but faster and bigger.

    Zip drives are pretty rare.
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