I would love it if target got Apple Pay - then I could really feel like I could leave the house without my wallet. As of now, I keep a credit card just in case. Looks like Apple is making inroads, it will happen soon. When Target accepts Apple Pay, Walmart will be right behind. Especially once they see that nobody will use currentc. Personally, I would never allow Walmart or the like to withdraw money directly from my checking account.
Nothing will ever eliminate credit card fraud for good. Reduce? Yes. For the moment. It's a cat and mouse game. New technology arrives, people find a way to exploit it eventually. Also, saying that any other company will fail and Apple is the only company on earth ever to protect you data is extremely short minded.
I agree with you that ApplePay is not 100% fool-proof. What is better about it compared to the other "solutions" is that the only two parties that have your Credit Card info is your bank and Apple.
I'm not sure how often credit card data is hacked at banks. I haven't heard anything about that. It probably happens, albeit nowhere near the level of incompetence that stores like Target display.
If my iPhone gets stolen, TouchID will keep it locked-down until I can wipe-it out remotely via iCloud. Case closed. I control that part.
The transmission portion is secure so I'm not worried about my CC info being transmitted wirelessly unencrypted, and since it't token-based, it's not like it will be any good to anyone once my immediate transaction is completed.
Alternate providers like CurrentC already got breached, they share customer details to the retail stores, and will be so ripe for another breach that I will refuse to do any business with a store that does not support ApplePay if they only offer CurrentC. Screw them. The last 12 months I had to have a couple of my credit cards renewed due to breaches. It's a pain in the backside and I'm fed up with it.
When Target accepts Apple Pay, Walmart will be right behind.
I doubt Walmart will accept ApplePay for the reasons that melgrosss pointed out in post #10 above. If they do, it'll be after everyone else has accepted it (due to consumer pressure).
If Walmart were serious about saving the consumer money, they'd be giving a small discount to consumers that paid in cash (like some gas stations did years ago). That ain't happening...
I agree with you that ApplePay is not 100% fool-proof. What is better about it compared to the other "solutions" is that the only two parties that have your Credit Card info is your bank and Apple.
I'm not sure how often credit card data is hacked at banks. I haven't heard anything about that. It probably happens, albeit nowhere near the level of incompetence that stores like Target display.
If my iPhone gets stolen, TouchID will keep it locked-down until I can wipe-it out remotely via iCloud. Case closed. I control that part.
The transmission portion is secure so I'm not worried about my CC info being transmitted wirelessly unencrypted, and since it't token-based, it's not like it will be any good to anyone once my immediate transaction is completed.
Alternate providers like CurrentC already got breached, they share customer details to the retail stores, and will be so ripe for another breach that I will refuse to do any business with a store that does not support ApplePay if they only offer CurrentC. Screw them. The last 12 months I had to have a couple of my credit cards renewed due to breaches. It's a pain in the backside and I'm fed up with it.
I'll agree with that. Limiting who actually has your info is always a good thing which is why I like Apple Pay and other NFC payments.
Lets be honest here though the terminal upgrades are not being implemented for the customers benefit but rather to avoid financial liability after the 10/1 rule changes.
Lets be honest here though the terminal upgrades are not being implemented for the customers benefit but rather to avoid financial liability after the 10/1 rule changes.
That's fine. I'm happy with the byproduct being consumer benefit.
The reality is no retail establishment like Target and Home depot can be trusted at all to keep customer financial data secure. No matter how many times they thump their chests and claim that "security is important", they just do not have the technical capabilities to pull it off. Third-party providers aren't worth jack either.
ApplePay on the other hand, has the potential to really eliminate credit card fraud for good. Apple has the chops to handle the technical challenges. I trust them. I also trust that ApplePay will not reveal any of my data to the jackasses at Target for marketing. Any other company attempting it will fail.
GooglePay - formerly the failed "GoogleWallet" - is just lipstick on a pig.
You are safer shopping at a small Mom & Pop place then one of these huge chain stores because the chain stores can store all your credit card Data on their own Computers and use that Data to track you. These small places can't do that. They have NONE of that Data. You swipe the card, it goes threw the machine and the transaction is done. They just basically get your money and that's it. They have no access to your credit card info. As long as you aren't just handing your card to someone blindly as they walk away, like in a restaurant, where anything can be done at that point, you're pretty secure. Of course if you use that card Online, you're back to being blind once again. These huge company's are allowed to store people's credit card Info. Their computers then get hacked and all the numbers get out into the wild.
"Our focus is on getting chip-and-PIN in place in time for the holidays," Cornell said. "Down the line we want to accept all the types of payments that our guests want."
Strongly seems to mean even after they install the new systems, Apple Pay/NFC will not be accepted for some period of time.
Chip and pin doesn't mean NFC ready. It will be easier to get that ready, then NFC, and when that's working, so will Apple Pay, Android Pay and others.
Really, you guys have to stop ascribing motives that make you happy to point to, and pay attention to what's actually happening.
I just want to point out, the Verifone terminals which Target has had for almost a year now are the very same ones in use at Trader Joe's, supporting Apple Pay.
Target has had the EMV slot blocked with a plastic plug on theirs, awaiting a firmware update to turn on ApplePay and EMV.
And if you read about what Trader Joe's said about Apple Pay, you'd have seen that it's going to take them time to roll the service out. You're going to give them a pass on this, and not Target. Why, because you like Trader Joe's, but not Target, because that's the feeling I'm getting here., from you, and others.
Nothing will ever eliminate credit card fraud for good. Reduce? Yes. For the moment. It's a cat and mouse game. New technology arrives, people find a way to exploit it eventually. Also, saying that any other company will fail and Apple is the only company on earth ever to protect you data is extremely short minded.
It's a common myth that everything can be broken. Maybe, some time in the far future, this can be broken, but it's highly unlikely anytime in the next decade, at least. Maybe, it even then. This type of system is considered to be highly secure.
Lets be honest here though the terminal upgrades are not being implemented for the customers benefit but rather to avoid financial liability after the 10/1 rule changes.
And Apple isn't doing Apple Pay for the benefit of the consumer, but to make money on the highly profitable payments they will get from every transaction, and the extra lock in to their hardware and software ecosystem.
And if you read about what Trader Joe's said about Apple Pay, you'd have seen that it's going to take them time to roll the service out. You're going to give them a pass on this, and not Target. Why, because you like Trader Joe's, but not Target, because that's the feeling I'm getting here., from you, and others.
I think you may be misreading me. I must not be expressing myself very well. I like both TJ's and Target. I think they're both imperfect. Target's mobile strategy isn't well thought out at all.
I also think they have different values when it comes to employees. TJ employees seem happier, are permitted to think for themselves, and knew what apple pay was and that it would be turned on in a week when the new terminals were installed.
The target employee seems discouraged from thinking for themselves, and pushes whatever the corp line is on Red Card, Red Perks, Cartwheel or whatever else it is this week.
But I do like shopping at both and don't think i'm giving one a pass and one not.
The issue is their card terminals don't have NFC either.
Target is installing the larger screen version of the MX Verifone credit card terminals, which have NFC as an OPTION. We do not know if Target has been buying the option from the start and have just left it disabled in software or if they intend to install the NFC module in their readers at a later date.
Target's main objective is to get the chip readers functioning on these Verifone terminals before October. If they do not accept chip card transactions by October, they then become liable for fraud from fake chip cards that are processed via magstripe at their stores; this liability shift is true for all people and companies that accept card present transactions.
Once Target gets chip card transactions working, they can focus their efforts on Apple Pay/NFC support. If they bought the option for NFC when they bought the new terminals, then it's a simple software update that they can roll out overnight, otherwise it's a hardware NFC option that has to be installed in each Verifone terminal and then a software update.
Accepting chip cards will increase security for shoppers at Target, and other stores, because they work in a similar fashion to Apple Pay. The card number remains the same with both types, but the CVV code that's found on the back of your card changes with each transaction. The only differences between Apple Pay and a chip card is Apple Pay transmits it's info over NFC whereas chip cards transmit with physical contact through a smart card reader AND Apple Pay has a virtual credit card number (Device Account Number) that is different from the physical card whereas chip cards use the number on the physical card. Both are very secure.
Target is installing the larger screen version of the MX Verifone credit card terminals, which have NFC as an OPTION. We do not know if Target has been buying the option from the start and have just left it disabled in software or if they intend to install the NFC module in their readers at a later date.
Target's main objective is to get the chip readers functioning on these Verifone terminals before October. If they do not accept chip card transactions by October, they then become liable for fraud from fake chip cards that are processed via magstripe at their stores; this liability shift is true for all people and companies that accept card present transactions.
Once Target gets chip card transactions working, they can focus their efforts on Apple Pay/NFC support. If they bought the option for NFC when they bought the new terminals, then it's a simple software update that they can roll out overnight, otherwise it's a hardware NFC option that has to be installed in each Verifone terminal and then a software update.
Accepting chip cards will increase security for shoppers at Target, and other stores, because they work in a similar fashion to Apple Pay. The card number remains the same with both types, but the CVV code that's found on the back of your card changes with each transaction. The only differences between Apple Pay and a chip card is Apple Pay transmits it's info over NFC whereas chip cards transmit with physical contact through a smart card reader AND Apple Pay has a virtual credit card number (Device Account Number) that is different from the physical card whereas chip cards use the number on the physical card. Both are very secure.
The terminals that I have seen seem to be the smaller Verifone MX915 model, but the current information on the Verifone web site says that both the MX915 (4.3" screen) AND the MX925 (7" screen) are "NFC/contactless enabled to support electronic wallets" (see http://www.verifone.com/products/hardware/multimedia/mx-915/ and .../mx-925/). In the past, NFC seemed to be standard in the MX915 but had been optional in the MX925.
The terminals that I have seen seem to be the smaller Verifone MX915 model, but the current information on the Verifone web site says that both the MX915 (4.3" screen) AND the MX925 (7" screen) are "NFC/contactless enabled to support electronic wallets" (see http://www.verifone.com/products/hardware/multimedia/mx-915/ and .../mx-925/). In the past, NFC seemed to be standard in the MX915 but had been optional in the MX925.
The copy isn't very clear on their website. Maybe both models come with it standard now. The video that was previously for the mx900 product line used to state that the mx915 has NFC standard and that it's an option on the 925 model, but it looks like that video isn't posted anymore.
Also interesting that your nearby target stores have the MX915. All of the Bay Area stores in California are using the MX925.
I doubt Walmart will accept ApplePay for the reasons that melgrosss pointed out in post #10 above. If they do, it'll be after everyone else has accepted it (due to consumer pressure).
If Walmart were serious about saving the consumer money, they'd be giving a small discount to consumers that paid in cash (like some gas stations did years ago). That ain't happening...
I too think it's just a matter of time, but not because of consumer pressure, or some wish to destroy credit cards. Those may be factors, but given the type of people I see shopping at Walmart, there's not going to be much in the way of "pressure" to convert. Eventually, perhaps, when they can find a solution that works for them and can deploy it to 11,000 plus stores in a reasonable timeframe, things will change.
Comments
Nothing will ever eliminate credit card fraud for good. Reduce? Yes. For the moment. It's a cat and mouse game. New technology arrives, people find a way to exploit it eventually. Also, saying that any other company will fail and Apple is the only company on earth ever to protect you data is extremely short minded.
I agree with you that ApplePay is not 100% fool-proof. What is better about it compared to the other "solutions" is that the only two parties that have your Credit Card info is your bank and Apple.
I'm not sure how often credit card data is hacked at banks. I haven't heard anything about that. It probably happens, albeit nowhere near the level of incompetence that stores like Target display.
If my iPhone gets stolen, TouchID will keep it locked-down until I can wipe-it out remotely via iCloud. Case closed. I control that part.
The transmission portion is secure so I'm not worried about my CC info being transmitted wirelessly unencrypted, and since it't token-based, it's not like it will be any good to anyone once my immediate transaction is completed.
Alternate providers like CurrentC already got breached, they share customer details to the retail stores, and will be so ripe for another breach that I will refuse to do any business with a store that does not support ApplePay if they only offer CurrentC. Screw them. The last 12 months I had to have a couple of my credit cards renewed due to breaches. It's a pain in the backside and I'm fed up with it.
When Target accepts Apple Pay, Walmart will be right behind.
I doubt Walmart will accept ApplePay for the reasons that melgrosss pointed out in post #10 above. If they do, it'll be after everyone else has accepted it (due to consumer pressure).
If Walmart were serious about saving the consumer money, they'd be giving a small discount to consumers that paid in cash (like some gas stations did years ago). That ain't happening...
Whoa! Hold the phone, Joe!
Did Cornell just say that Target's current POS terminals are STILL NOT secure?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!!
They are not. I just had my number stolen from them last month
I'll agree with that. Limiting who actually has your info is always a good thing which is why I like Apple Pay and other NFC payments.
Lets be honest here though the terminal upgrades are not being implemented for the customers benefit but rather to avoid financial liability after the 10/1 rule changes.
That's fine. I'm happy with the byproduct being consumer benefit.
In related news I noticed our local Home Depot started taking contact EMV. They broke Contactless/Apple Pay in the process.Not one of the ones in Virginia Beach. Stuck my card in and it did nothing. Screen said please slide card. Always use EMV in WallyWorld...
The reality is no retail establishment like Target and Home depot can be trusted at all to keep customer financial data secure. No matter how many times they thump their chests and claim that "security is important", they just do not have the technical capabilities to pull it off. Third-party providers aren't worth jack either.
ApplePay on the other hand, has the potential to really eliminate credit card fraud for good. Apple has the chops to handle the technical challenges. I trust them. I also trust that ApplePay will not reveal any of my data to the jackasses at Target for marketing. Any other company attempting it will fail.
GooglePay - formerly the failed "GoogleWallet" - is just lipstick on a pig.
You are safer shopping at a small Mom & Pop place then one of these huge chain stores because the chain stores can store all your credit card Data on their own Computers and use that Data to track you. These small places can't do that. They have NONE of that Data. You swipe the card, it goes threw the machine and the transaction is done. They just basically get your money and that's it. They have no access to your credit card info. As long as you aren't just handing your card to someone blindly as they walk away, like in a restaurant, where anything can be done at that point, you're pretty secure. Of course if you use that card Online, you're back to being blind once again. These huge company's are allowed to store people's credit card Info. Their computers then get hacked and all the numbers get out into the wild.
Chip and pin doesn't mean NFC ready. It will be easier to get that ready, then NFC, and when that's working, so will Apple Pay, Android Pay and others.
Really, you guys have to stop ascribing motives that make you happy to point to, and pay attention to what's actually happening.
And if you read about what Trader Joe's said about Apple Pay, you'd have seen that it's going to take them time to roll the service out. You're going to give them a pass on this, and not Target. Why, because you like Trader Joe's, but not Target, because that's the feeling I'm getting here., from you, and others.
It's a common myth that everything can be broken. Maybe, some time in the far future, this can be broken, but it's highly unlikely anytime in the next decade, at least. Maybe, it even then. This type of system is considered to be highly secure.
Credit card fraud is something different.
And Apple isn't doing Apple Pay for the benefit of the consumer, but to make money on the highly profitable payments they will get from every transaction, and the extra lock in to their hardware and software ecosystem.
So what? What's your point here?
I think you may be misreading me. I must not be expressing myself very well. I like both TJ's and Target. I think they're both imperfect. Target's mobile strategy isn't well thought out at all.
I also think they have different values when it comes to employees. TJ employees seem happier, are permitted to think for themselves, and knew what apple pay was and that it would be turned on in a week when the new terminals were installed.
The target employee seems discouraged from thinking for themselves, and pushes whatever the corp line is on Red Card, Red Perks, Cartwheel or whatever else it is this week.
But I do like shopping at both and don't think i'm giving one a pass and one not.
The issue is their card terminals don't have NFC either.
Target is installing the larger screen version of the MX Verifone credit card terminals, which have NFC as an OPTION. We do not know if Target has been buying the option from the start and have just left it disabled in software or if they intend to install the NFC module in their readers at a later date.
Target's main objective is to get the chip readers functioning on these Verifone terminals before October. If they do not accept chip card transactions by October, they then become liable for fraud from fake chip cards that are processed via magstripe at their stores; this liability shift is true for all people and companies that accept card present transactions.
Once Target gets chip card transactions working, they can focus their efforts on Apple Pay/NFC support. If they bought the option for NFC when they bought the new terminals, then it's a simple software update that they can roll out overnight, otherwise it's a hardware NFC option that has to be installed in each Verifone terminal and then a software update.
Accepting chip cards will increase security for shoppers at Target, and other stores, because they work in a similar fashion to Apple Pay. The card number remains the same with both types, but the CVV code that's found on the back of your card changes with each transaction. The only differences between Apple Pay and a chip card is Apple Pay transmits it's info over NFC whereas chip cards transmit with physical contact through a smart card reader AND Apple Pay has a virtual credit card number (Device Account Number) that is different from the physical card whereas chip cards use the number on the physical card. Both are very secure.
Target is installing the larger screen version of the MX Verifone credit card terminals, which have NFC as an OPTION. We do not know if Target has been buying the option from the start and have just left it disabled in software or if they intend to install the NFC module in their readers at a later date.
Target's main objective is to get the chip readers functioning on these Verifone terminals before October. If they do not accept chip card transactions by October, they then become liable for fraud from fake chip cards that are processed via magstripe at their stores; this liability shift is true for all people and companies that accept card present transactions.
Once Target gets chip card transactions working, they can focus their efforts on Apple Pay/NFC support. If they bought the option for NFC when they bought the new terminals, then it's a simple software update that they can roll out overnight, otherwise it's a hardware NFC option that has to be installed in each Verifone terminal and then a software update.
Accepting chip cards will increase security for shoppers at Target, and other stores, because they work in a similar fashion to Apple Pay. The card number remains the same with both types, but the CVV code that's found on the back of your card changes with each transaction. The only differences between Apple Pay and a chip card is Apple Pay transmits it's info over NFC whereas chip cards transmit with physical contact through a smart card reader AND Apple Pay has a virtual credit card number (Device Account Number) that is different from the physical card whereas chip cards use the number on the physical card. Both are very secure.
The terminals that I have seen seem to be the smaller Verifone MX915 model, but the current information on the Verifone web site says that both the MX915 (4.3" screen) AND the MX925 (7" screen) are "NFC/contactless enabled to support electronic wallets" (see http://www.verifone.com/products/hardware/multimedia/mx-915/ and .../mx-925/). In the past, NFC seemed to be standard in the MX915 but had been optional in the MX925.
The copy isn't very clear on their website. Maybe both models come with it standard now. The video that was previously for the mx900 product line used to state that the mx915 has NFC standard and that it's an option on the 925 model, but it looks like that video isn't posted anymore.
Also interesting that your nearby target stores have the MX915. All of the Bay Area stores in California are using the MX925.
Huh? Are you referring to Target? They're still tremendously successful, even after the credit card fiasco.
I doubt Walmart will accept ApplePay for the reasons that melgrosss pointed out in post #10 above. If they do, it'll be after everyone else has accepted it (due to consumer pressure).
If Walmart were serious about saving the consumer money, they'd be giving a small discount to consumers that paid in cash (like some gas stations did years ago). That ain't happening...
I too think it's just a matter of time, but not because of consumer pressure, or some wish to destroy credit cards. Those may be factors, but given the type of people I see shopping at Walmart, there's not going to be much in the way of "pressure" to convert. Eventually, perhaps, when they can find a solution that works for them and can deploy it to 11,000 plus stores in a reasonable timeframe, things will change.