Recent posts in this forum suddenly vanished??

Posted:
in Feedback edited November 2015

I don't know what happened but al my recent posts in this forum disappeared.

Also I can't find back the thread it was in.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,326moderator
    corax wrote: »
    I don't know what happened but al my recent posts in this forum disappeared.
    Also I can't find back the thread it was in.

    Your last posts are these:

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/159452/apple-announces-touch-id-fingerprint-scanner-for-iphone-5s/120#post_2397765
    http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/157943/apple-offers-sneak-peek-at-new-cylindrical-mac-pro-assembled-in-the-usa/240#post_2344297
    http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/106991/online-store-being-updated#post_1569038

    The forum switched platform at some point but I don't remember you making any recent posts. Did you have a different username?
  • Reply 2 of 15
    coraxcorax Posts: 47member



    Nope I use this account for years. I posted some responses in the past couple of days and they do not show up. Even my post from yesterday is gone.

  • Reply 3 of 15
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by Corax View Post

    I posted some responses in the past couple of days and they do not show up. Even my post from yesterday is gone.

     

    Oh, that could be the new spam-catcher system, erasing “early” account posts because it thinks they’re spam.

     

    But you had previous posts and it’s not a new account… 

  • Reply 4 of 15
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,326moderator
    corax wrote: »
    Nope I use this account for years. I posted some responses in the past couple of days and they do not show up. Even my post from yesterday is gone.

    If you posted directly from the front page articles, maybe they didn't register. Sometimes those come through as undefined for some reason. If you remember what you wrote, try posting it again. Did you see the post inline in the discussion thread after you had submitted it?
    Oh, that could be the new spam-catcher system, erasing “early” account posts because it thinks they’re spam.

    Those posts would be put into the moderation queue but that's only new accounts.
  • Reply 5 of 15
    coraxcorax Posts: 47member
    Nope I posted a response on a thread in the Forums. Not on an article on the front page.
  • Reply 6 of 15

    Sometimes I find my posts mysteriously deleted from a threads.

    The most recent was from yesterday.

    It doesn't even show up in my history.

  • Reply 7 of 15
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Lots of posts in one recent discussion have been deleted, a certain poster's inflammatory posts have only been edited to remove inflammatory lines with no note as to who edited them. Posts on the opposing side that haven't been breaking any rules were simply deleted.

    We used to have a custom of mods at least noting edits were made.
  • Reply 8 of 15
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    Which thread was that?

    EDIT: Nevermind. Answered.
  • Reply 9 of 15
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,326moderator
    jeffdm wrote: »
    Lots of posts in one recent discussion have been deleted, a certain poster's inflammatory posts have only been edited with no note as to who edited them. Posts on the opposing side that haven't been breaking any rules, as opposed to the inflammatory post, were simply deleted.

    We used to have a custom of mods at least noting edits were made.

    There isn't a way to mark deleted posts (not that it would matter, they would just be marked as deleted and people would have to scroll down through dozens of empty blocks) and moderators/admins see the edits, vBulletin was a different platform from the current one too. Having removed content not visible to members helps prevent it being reposted and from any arguing starting up again.

    In the thread you are referring to (the Houston rights one), the removed posts (multiple posts on different sides) and edits are all just petty bickering and personal attacks, which do nothing to further the discussion, they were even flagged by the person who tried to repost them. In that thread, the posts after about the 2nd page could all go but people complain if posts are removed. People complain when their own posts are removed and the posts of other members aren't and the other members do the same, everybody wants to be the only one who gets their say. Political threads often veer off in different directions. When it descends into bickering, the thread gets pruned back to the least argumentative post. Sometimes a post is partly bickering/off-topic etc so only those parts are removed, which serves as an example on how to make the same comments without the unnecessary additions. If more posts should be removed then flag them. If people don't want to contribute further to a thread then they don't have to add anything at all.

    The simplest answer to all deletions and edits is to glance up at the thread title. If what people post has nothing to do with the thread topic then that's why it's gone. That includes comments about the article formatting and the article authors. Not a single on-topic, polite post is ever removed from the forum. Deletions or edits also don't automatically imply infractions and a deletion isn't worse than an edit, an edit means some of the post wasn't appropriate, deletion means none of it was but the inappropriate content in both is treated the same.
  • Reply 10 of 15
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Marvin wrote: »
    There isn't a way to mark deleted posts (not that it would matter, they would just be marked as deleted and people would have to scroll down through dozens of empty blocks) and moderators/admins see the edits, vBulletin was a different platform from the current one too. Having removed content not visible to members helps prevent it being reposted and from any arguing starting up again.

    In the thread you are referring to (the Houston rights one), the removed posts (multiple posts on different sides) and edits are all just petty bickering and personal attacks, which do nothing to further the discussion, they were even flagged by the person who tried to repost them. In that thread, the posts after about the 2nd page could all go but people complain if posts are removed. People complain when their own posts are removed and the posts of other members aren't and the other members do the same, everybody wants to be the only one who gets their say. Political threads often veer off in different directions. When it descends into bickering, the thread gets pruned back to the least argumentative post. Sometimes a post is partly bickering/off-topic etc so only those parts are removed, which serves as an example on how to make the same comments without the unnecessary additions. If more posts should be removed then flag them. If people don't want to contribute further to a thread then they don't have to add anything at all.

    The simplest answer to all deletions and edits is to glance up at the thread title. If what people post has nothing to do with the thread topic then that's why it's gone. That includes comments about the article formatting and the article authors. Not a single on-topic, polite post is ever removed from the forum. Deletions or edits also don't automatically imply infractions and a deletion isn't worse than an edit, an edit means some of the post wasn't appropriate, deletion means none of it was but the inappropriate content in both is treated the same.

    This one has nothing to say about the original article and was yet considerably edited rather than deleted:
    http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/189857/apple-throws-support-behind-houston-equal-rights-initiative/240#post_2801929

    Why would a mod even bother to spend the time to edit that? If your assertion is true, it should have been deleted. Unless monetary policy has something to do with Houston's ballot initiative, which I don't think it is.
  • Reply 11 of 15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    There isn't a way to mark deleted posts (not that it would matter, they would just be marked as deleted and people would have to scroll down through dozens of empty blocks) and moderators/admins see the edits, vBulletin was a different platform from the current one too. Having removed content not visible to members helps prevent it being reposted and from any arguing starting up again.



    In the thread you are referring to (the Houston rights one), the removed posts (multiple posts on different sides) and edits are all just petty bickering and personal attacks, which do nothing to further the discussion, they were even flagged by the person who tried to repost them. In that thread, the posts after about the 2nd page could all go but people complain if posts are removed. People complain when their own posts are removed and the posts of other members aren't and the other members do the same, everybody wants to be the only one who gets their say. Political threads often veer off in different directions. When it descends into bickering, the thread gets pruned back to the least argumentative post. Sometimes a post is partly bickering/off-topic etc so only those parts are removed, which serves as an example on how to make the same comments without the unnecessary additions. If more posts should be removed then flag them. If people don't want to contribute further to a thread then they don't have to add anything at all.



    The simplest answer to all deletions and edits is to glance up at the thread title. If what people post has nothing to do with the thread topic then that's why it's gone. That includes comments about the article formatting and the article authors. Not a single on-topic, polite post is ever removed from the forum. Deletions or edits also don't automatically imply infractions and a deletion isn't worse than an edit, an edit means some of the post wasn't appropriate, deletion means none of it was but the inappropriate content in both is treated the same.




    This one has nothing to say about the original article and was yet considerably edited rather than deleted:

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/189857/apple-throws-support-behind-houston-equal-rights-initiative/240#post_2801929



    Why would a mod even bother to spend the time to edit that? If your assertion is true, it should have been deleted.

     

    In fact, there were 78 lines deleted from that post, the deletion of which made Tallest Skil look more reasonable, measured, and civil in his response.  As JeffDM wrote, the altered message has nothing, at all, to do with the original article.

     

    After the alteration of Tallest Skil's message and the deletion of my response, I checked for PMs from the moderators, or warnings, infractions, etc..  Finding none, I re-posted his original messages, edited with red strike-throughs to show the deletions, and then re-posted my reply.  Both were deleted, again, with no explanation.

     

    So I then posted the the following.  All of the text shown in red with a strike-through was then deleted by a moderator (changing the meaning of the message).  When I restored it, the message was deleted in its entirety and the thread was locked.  Why?  The message I posted was polite, factual, and violated no rule or guideline for this site. 

     

     



    Quote:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

    {See above}

     

    A number of our posts have been deleted, including ones which did not appear to violate site rules.

     

    More disconcerting is that at 78 lines were deleted from your post above (lines 3-27, 33-45, 146-178, and 185-199 from the original version). There is no indication of who made the changes or even where the text was deleted. This substantially changed the content and tone of your post from what you wrote.  I do not know if prior posts were similarly altered.

     

    In light of that, I am not comfortable participating further.  Thank you for your time.



     

    I am fine with moderators deleting every message that Tallest Skil and I posted that was off-topic.  But spending the time to carefully edit his message, casting him in a more positive light, and then deleting my reply does not strike me as even-handed.

  • Reply 12 of 15
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

    There isn't a way to mark deleted posts

     

    There is, but we don’t have control over it. Mods can see the line at the bottom of an edited post “Edited by [name] at [time]”, but no one else can! Huddler’s just lacking in so many ways. It’s really helpful to see when and where changes were made.

     

    What else... I think that line shows up publicly if you edit your OWN post, but I’m not sure.

     
    Political threads often veer off in different directions.

     

    That’s why I’ve always been of the belief that any thread with any connection to politics needs to be posted by the AppleInsider bot directly into PoliticalOutsider. Then you wouldn’t have to worry about discussions.

     

    Honestly, the stuff with which Apple only has an incidental tie needs to not be posted at all.

     

    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

    This one has nothing to say about the original article and was yet considerably edited rather than deleted:



    You know, the best part about these edits is that I have absolutely no functioning memory whatsoever, and so I don’t remember what–if anything–was removed, so just about anyone could tell me that anything was there and I’d probably believe them (unless I already knew otherwise).

     

    Did I say best? I said most terrifying. Not within the context of the act of editing (surreptitiously or otherwise0, but just terrifying for me.

  • Reply 13 of 15
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,326moderator
    jeffdm wrote: »
    This one has nothing to say about the original article and was yet considerably edited rather than deleted:
    http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/189857/apple-throws-support-behind-houston-equal-rights-initiative/240#post_2801929

    Why would a mod even bother to spend the time to edit that? If your assertion is true, it should have been deleted. Unless monetary policy has something to do with Houston's ballot initiative, which I don't think it is.

    That started from economic prosperity being linked to equality near the beginning of the thread, like I say those topics spread out in every direction. It doesn't take much time to scan down and remove the parts of a post that aren't relevant to what is being replied to and deletion would have left the previous post unanswered, which is unfair if someone has spent time writing their reply and some parts are relevant.
    As JeffDM wrote, the altered message has nothing, at all, to do with the original article.

    The same would be true of the post he was replying to, which was yours. Why should his be removed and yours not? If you had replied to that instead of resorting to personal attacks then that reply would also have been left. If you don't want to continue on a particular line of discussion then you can avoid replying on that line of discussion.
    The message I posted was polite, factual, and violated no rule or guideline for this site.

    The messages you made prior to this were not and that post was off-topic so it does violate the posting guidelines, as is reposting deleted content.
    spending the time to carefully edit his message, casting him in a more positive light, and then deleting my reply does not strike me as even-handed.

    Removing your posts gives you the same benefit but the aim is to remove the irrelevant parts of the posts. If you had made a constructive reply, even partially, then it would have been left in place. The forum gives you the option to add members to a block list if you don't like them, just click their username and the option to block them is in the list.
  • Reply 14 of 15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fred Maxwell 

    As JeffDM wrote, the altered message has nothing, at all, to do with the original article.




    The same would be true of the post he was replying to, which was yours. Why should his be removed and yours not?

     

    As I wrote earlier, mine, as well as his, should have been removed.

     

    Quote:



    and that post was off-topic so it does violate the posting guidelines



     

    That doesn't hold water.  Initially it was edited to remove the part of message which disclosed that Tallest Skil's message had be altered, changing both the content and tone. So why was it okay to mention that messages had been deleted but not to mention that a message had been altered in that way?

     

    Quote:

    as is reposting deleted content.


     

    The deleted portion explained my primary reason for moving on, and what was left amounted to a gross distortion of what I posted -- still posted under my name as if I had written it that way, and not any more on-topic than the portion you deleted. 

     

    Quote:


    If you had made a constructive reply, even partially, then it would have been left in place. The forum gives you the option to add members to a block list if you don't like them, just click their username and the option to block them is in the list.



     

    {I sent you a PM on this given the sensitive nature.}

     

    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Did I say best? I said most terrifying. Not within the context of the act of editing (surreptitiously or otherwise0, but just terrifying for me.


     

    That's another one of those rare areas of agreement.  The notion that my name could remain attached to a message after it had been completely changed in content, tone, and even meaning, is terrifying.  And it's unacceptable.

  • Reply 15 of 15
    noivadnoivad Posts: 186member
    Mod edits should be noticeable. Concerns about heavy handed moderation are valid considering what happens on other forums (been on the net over 20 years so I’ve seen this many times). Feedback & transparency help users correct behavior, while without, some people might wonder why they got axed & continue the behavior. (Yes, I realize some people have a really hard time learning, but most rational people would only need a few “slaps in the nose with a newspaper.”)

    Post deletions should have a reason requirement (i.e. “Off Topic,” “Inflammatory,” “Bickering/Flame War,” “Other ToS violation.”) that mods can either check or include their own comment as to why it was removed that is also sent to users and noted on the forum with a thin black bar. Something like “*reply from X deleted. Reason: Off Topic”

    BTW, this moderation debate/issue has been “solved” on other forums with the following being one solution that seems to work pretty well for most people:
    TLDR; It’s a blend of Stack Exchange & Slashdot’s system of mostly self-policing and visibility thresholds.

    If posts were allowed to be up & down-voted with people able to set filters on “hide comments below X” much of this would self-police. Just set defaults to: fresh posts start at 20 points and if it falls below 10, it is hidden by default. If it hits zero 0 it is flagged for moderation (meaning only people who care will see it will, so posts are less likely to take the time of mods). Each user can set their threshold so nothing is hidden.

    If you wanted to get fancy you could make a person’s rep affect how much their vote affects the post rating. Higher rep: higher effect; Lower Rep: lower effect. Gaming this system would earn suspension, etc. Rep up/down votes affect posters rep & their rep has a “multiplier” effect on their own votes. This would create a loop where people that bicker/flame a lot would take each other below people’s threshold so they could have their “fun” at the kid’s table and the adults can talk in peace.

    It is a lot of work for the system engineers but ultimately makes for an environment most users can enjoy. And most software is for users—well at least the best SW considers user’s first, IMO.
    Thanks.
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