I'm looking forward to the day when a Google search on the word "jihad" has the feds at your door arresting you in 20 minutes. Actually, that's too small...we need the government to be able to monitor our thoughts at all times and preemptively arrest anyone who may be considering doing anything illegal at any point in their life...
Child molesters and pedophiles are caught by their actions and complaints about them, not by their phone calls. Mexican drug cartels and the like have operated and expanded long before the advent of iOS. Do you really think the Mexican and U.S. Governments don't already know about the cartels and their shipments? If searching trucks at the borders doesn't stop the flow of drugs, do you really think phone call metadata is going to?
In terms of terrorism, the U.S. Government can't point to a single case where terrorism was stopped due to NSA surveillance. In fact, the opposite is true: even when the NSA or FBI knew about a potential terrorist and was monitoring them to some extent, they failed to stop them from taking action. This was true with the Boston bombers as well as many other recent events. How is it that some of the 9/11 terrorists were permitted to go to flight school in the U.S.? Monitoring their phone calls wouldn't have helped anything.
Monitoring gun sales would be a much stronger indicator of intent, but the paranoia of the gun lobby won't permit that to happen in the U.S. Hell, we live in a country where many Texans truly believed that the recent military exercises in Texas were going to lead to the Federal Government "taking over Texas" and going house-to-house to take away people's guns.
IMO, the massive collection and analysis of data is counter-productive. It's looking for the needle in the haystack instead of using NSA resources to target those who are most likely to commit terrorism. If the NSA or FBI wants to target someone they can get a warrant. Someone who is engaged in serious criminality isn't generally stupid enough to use a cell phone in a way they can be tracked anyway. And can't the NSA still get cell phone metadata by going to the carriers anyway?
IMO, NSA's desire to consume every bit of data about us is not about fighting terrorism. It's a mad dash for power, resources and billions of taxpayer dollars. While the NSA budget is classified, it's been estimated at about $12 billion. The total 2012 intelligence budget was around $75 billion ($647 per U.S. household).
Besides, in terms of terrorism from outside the U.S., we change our minds every year about who are our friends and who are our enemies.
I agree with most of your argument, but I don't believe monitoring gun sales does anything to stop terrorism. Only law-abiding citizens purchase their guns legally and register/carry permits for them. Criminals and terrorists are not going to getthem through legal means thus limiting the effectiveness of such monitoring. Personal gun owners are just being hassled by these types of programs.
For you to suggest that gun sellers only sell guns to law-abiding citizens is ridiculous. Totally flies in the face of hard facts.
In terms of terrorism, the U.S. Government can't point to a single case where terrorism was stopped due to NSA surveillance. In fact, the opposite is true: even when the NSA or FBI knew about a potential terrorist and was monitoring them to some extent, they failed to stop them from taking action. This was true with the Boston bombers as well as many other recent events. How is it that some of the 9/11 terrorists were permitted to go to flight school in the U.S.? Monitoring their phone calls wouldn't have helped anything.
That's a bunch of bull crap. The FBI has thwarted numerous potential terrorist threats. We're never told how they became aware of them.
B[CENTER][/CENTER] I have an idea, instead of FBI and NSA worrying about collecting data on law-abiding citizens. Maybe they should spend these funds on collecting data that is accessing federal networks and catching people stealing our information. Like IRS, and recent other federal systems. Then IRS one should not have taken so long to notice, especially after turbo tax noticed something was wrong months before and shut down for a week as a precaution to determine it was not turbo taxes issue. That should have been a huge red flag to the IRS but it still took them months to figure it out and admit it after the tax season deadline.
If the money was spent on proper monitoring and trending Analysis on the systems they should've recognized and issue within the first week. But no, they give the money to other agencies based off the threat of terrism and the patriot bill that just went back into effect. Do you not think that taking my ID, money, screwing up my credit to the point that I can't even get electric turned on without needing a deposite is a form of terrorism?
...the only traitors are those who conceived of, authorized, and implemented the blanket spying on american citizens not accused of any crime. i hope theyre brought to justice.
Now that is an endorsement. But as Gruber said in his blog, security should be icing on the cake. The product and service itself should be superb to start with. iCloud still leaves a lot to be desired.
people say this, but im not sure what they mean. i think the iwork web apps are way better than google's. icloud delivers movies and music to us daily w/ no problems. syncs up my notes, contacts, etc. tracks my phone when i lose it. etc... whats falling down?
since im guessing none of us know each other IRL, it can be impossible to detect sarcasm from a random guy on the interwebs. /s tag exists for a reason.
I agree with most of your argument, but I don't believe monitoring gun sales does anything to stop terrorism. Only law-abiding citizens purchase their guns legally and register/carry permits for them. Criminals and terrorists are not going to getthem through legal means thus limiting the effectiveness of such monitoring. Personal gun owners are just being hassled by these types of programs.
agreed. i live in a former murder capital, and i can tell you, the gangbangers arent registering their firearm sales. but if we ended the prohibition and legalized narcotics it wouldnt be an issue anyway.
...the only traitors are those who conceived of, authorized, and implemented the blanket spying on american citizens not accused of any crime. i hope theyre brought to justice.
Leaking classified info is a crime. He's a traitor.
For you to suggest that gun sellers only sell guns to law-abiding citizens is ridiculous. Totally flies in the face of hard facts.
that isnt what he said. he said, "Only law-abiding citizens purchase their guns legally and register". gun manufacturers sell legally, dealers sell legally. criminals deal in stolen weapons...registering firearms does nothing to hamper their transactions, and only provides the feds a list of people to spy on.
Leaking classified info is a crime. He's a traitor.
leaking information is not the same as "spying" as you mis-claimed.
further, the moral responsibility of recognizing what is right & wrong is bigger than the bureaucracy of following the law. see fight against slavery, which was perfectly legal.
Every piece of technology (like a gun) can be used for both good or bad. That the bad will use it is no reason to make it available to the good.
If you are trying to say that Apple is making this technology available solely or mainly to market their product to criminals, you have failed (miserable) to prove your case.
When the government classifies data about their illegal and unconstitutional activity, We The People cannot allow the whistleblower to be treated like a criminal. Find me the language in our constitution that supports having secret laws and secret courts to uphold those laws. Our founders are turning over in their graves.
Comments
.
I'm looking forward to the day when a Google search on the word "jihad" has the feds at your door arresting you in 20 minutes. Actually, that's too small...we need the government to be able to monitor our thoughts at all times and preemptively arrest anyone who may be considering doing anything illegal at any point in their life...
An absurd straw man argument.
Child molesters and pedophiles are caught by their actions and complaints about them, not by their phone calls. Mexican drug cartels and the like have operated and expanded long before the advent of iOS. Do you really think the Mexican and U.S. Governments don't already know about the cartels and their shipments? If searching trucks at the borders doesn't stop the flow of drugs, do you really think phone call metadata is going to?
In terms of terrorism, the U.S. Government can't point to a single case where terrorism was stopped due to NSA surveillance. In fact, the opposite is true: even when the NSA or FBI knew about a potential terrorist and was monitoring them to some extent, they failed to stop them from taking action. This was true with the Boston bombers as well as many other recent events. How is it that some of the 9/11 terrorists were permitted to go to flight school in the U.S.? Monitoring their phone calls wouldn't have helped anything.
Monitoring gun sales would be a much stronger indicator of intent, but the paranoia of the gun lobby won't permit that to happen in the U.S. Hell, we live in a country where many Texans truly believed that the recent military exercises in Texas were going to lead to the Federal Government "taking over Texas" and going house-to-house to take away people's guns.
IMO, the massive collection and analysis of data is counter-productive. It's looking for the needle in the haystack instead of using NSA resources to target those who are most likely to commit terrorism. If the NSA or FBI wants to target someone they can get a warrant. Someone who is engaged in serious criminality isn't generally stupid enough to use a cell phone in a way they can be tracked anyway. And can't the NSA still get cell phone metadata by going to the carriers anyway?
IMO, NSA's desire to consume every bit of data about us is not about fighting terrorism. It's a mad dash for power, resources and billions of taxpayer dollars. While the NSA budget is classified, it's been estimated at about $12 billion. The total 2012 intelligence budget was around $75 billion ($647 per U.S. household).
Besides, in terms of terrorism from outside the U.S., we change our minds every year about who are our friends and who are our enemies.
I agree with most of your argument, but I don't believe monitoring gun sales does anything to stop terrorism. Only law-abiding citizens purchase their guns legally and register/carry permits for them. Criminals and terrorists are not going to getthem through legal means thus limiting the effectiveness of such monitoring. Personal gun owners are just being hassled by these types of programs.
For you to suggest that gun sellers only sell guns to law-abiding citizens is ridiculous. Totally flies in the face of hard facts.
That's a bunch of bull crap. The FBI has thwarted numerous potential terrorist threats. We're never told how they became aware of them.
I have an idea, instead of FBI and NSA worrying about collecting data on law-abiding citizens. Maybe they should spend these funds on collecting data that is accessing federal networks and catching people stealing our information.
Like IRS, and recent other federal systems.
Then IRS one should not have taken so long to notice, especially after turbo tax noticed something was wrong months before and shut down for a week as a precaution to determine it was not turbo taxes issue. That should have been a huge red flag to the IRS but it still took them months to figure it out and admit it after the tax season deadline.
If the money was spent on proper monitoring and trending Analysis on the systems they should've recognized and issue within the first week. But no, they give the money to other agencies based off the threat of terrism and the patriot bill that just went back into effect. Do you not think that taking my ID, money, screwing up my credit to the point that I can't even get electric turned on without needing a deposite is a form of terrorism?
nope. not a spy. not a traitor. hero, deserves a statue. oh wait, he got one:
https://www.google.com/search?q=snowden+statue&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=MPNxVZGeHpOxyQT1yINg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAw&biw=1340&bih=878
...the only traitors are those who conceived of, authorized, and implemented the blanket spying on american citizens not accused of any crime. i hope theyre brought to justice.
people say this, but im not sure what they mean. i think the iwork web apps are way better than google's. icloud delivers movies and music to us daily w/ no problems. syncs up my notes, contacts, etc. tracks my phone when i lose it. etc... whats falling down?
since im guessing none of us know each other IRL, it can be impossible to detect sarcasm from a random guy on the interwebs. /s tag exists for a reason.
agreed. i live in a former murder capital, and i can tell you, the gangbangers arent registering their firearm sales. but if we ended the prohibition and legalized narcotics it wouldnt be an issue anyway.
Leaking classified info is a crime. He's a traitor.
If there's a statue, knock it down.
that isnt what he said. he said, "Only law-abiding citizens purchase their guns legally and register". gun manufacturers sell legally, dealers sell legally. criminals deal in stolen weapons...registering firearms does nothing to hamper their transactions, and only provides the feds a list of people to spy on.
speak for yourself... it's of value to me.
and suggesting they got them from illegal wiretaps is also a bullcrap argument. google "appeal to ignorance fallacy".
be free, my son:
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ignorant.html
leaking information is not the same as "spying" as you mis-claimed.
further, the moral responsibility of recognizing what is right & wrong is bigger than the bureaucracy of following the law. see fight against slavery, which was perfectly legal.
Every piece of technology (like a gun) can be used for both good or bad. That the bad will use it is no reason to make it available to the good.
If you are trying to say that Apple is making this technology available solely or mainly to market their product to criminals, you have failed (miserable) to prove your case.
Leaking classified info is a crime. He's a traitor.
If there's a statue, knock it down.
Classified information about the illegal harvesting of data and spying on American Citizens. As stated, he is a hero.
This hero didn't "sell" anything. He exposed unconstitutional tyranny.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/silent-phone/id554269204?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/silent-text-2/id868431189?mt=8
When the government classifies data about their illegal and unconstitutional activity, We The People cannot allow the whistleblower to be treated like a criminal. Find me the language in our constitution that supports having secret laws and secret courts to uphold those laws. Our founders are turning over in their graves.