While most of this is true, you ignore the fact that a Mac affords so much more flexibility than what an iPad can do.
A Mac has unlimited multitasking in which you decide what is allowed to run in the background.
Not all Macs have LED displays, in fact, not all Macs have displays. You have the choice of what display to use with your Mac.
While both have some form of flash storage, a Mac and iPad of the same year differ vastly in the power and speed and the storage amount
Calculators execute code, are they computers?
Not true
Don't even begin to compare a Mac's extensive I/O to an iPad's single lightning port
Do keep going. I have both a MBP and iPad Air 2, but I never mix the use of either.
none of what you've said has anything to do with the iPad being a computer. the original Macintosh didn't have multitasking, a choice of displays, or a hard drive -- yet only a fool would claim it wasn't a computer. but if you insist that it wasn't, I will accept that as a possibility.
Yawn. Don't twist words so far out of context. Are we talking 2005 or 2015? If you want to argue 2015, then yes, computers shipping now-a-days with slow storage are closer to toys.
nobody's twisting words. you claimed an iPad wasn't a "real computer", got called out for being completely wrong, then changed the definition of what a computer is to match your claim. classic goalpost moving.
none of what you've said has anything to do with the iPad being a computer. the original Macintosh didn't have multitasking, a choice of displays, or a hard drive -- yet only a fool would claim it wasn't a computer. but if you insist that it wasn't, I will accept that as a possibility.
The original Macintosh also came out in the 80s, things have changed since then. We are comparing current era technologies to current era technologies. You may want to believe the iPad and the Mac are on the same level, but I will continue to believe they aren't
Yawn. Don't twist words so far out of context. Are we talking 2005 or 2015? If you want to argue 2015, then yes, computers shipping now-a-days with slow storage are closer to toys.
It's very much in context, the majority of desktop, laptop and tablet computers being manufactured today, do not use PCI Flash storage.
Therefore either most of these devices aren't "real computers" or your concept of what makes a "real computer" is flawed.
Whilst it's great to hardware keyboard commands in iOs, what would be a real leap forward, IMHO, would be the inclusion of the command, option and arrow keys in the iOs virtual keyboard. At least have the option to turn on an "advanced" input that looks and acts like a mac keyboard.
The key advantage of a tablet is not having to be encumbered with a physical keyboard. Personally I'd be very happy to trade the screen space and key size for command-c/x & v plus a few more shortcuts and the arrow keys would make it easier to navigate within input fields in the likes of comment sections such as this.
Surely not an impossible ask and it would make iOs so much more sophisticated and flexible in one fell swoop.
It's very much in context, the majority of desktop, laptop and tablet computers being manufactured today, do not use PCI Flash storage.
Therefore either most of these devices aren't "real computers" or your concept of what makes a "real computer" is flawed.
You know, if you want to debate about this, quote my whole sentence. Don't truncate it and then make a big deal about it. I very clearly did not limit it to PCI-E like you are. Here, I will help you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by staticx57
In a "real computer" I expect to get PCI-E based flash storage or at the very least, SATA 3.
You know, if you want to debate about this, quote my whole sentence. Don't truncate it and then make a big deal about it. I very clearly did not limit it to PCI-E like you are. Here, I will help you.
You're really struggling, it's not relevant to the argument that I didn't quote the SATA-3, being slower than PCI flash storage, as being in one of your "real computers".
You can't even help yourself so how can you help me?
In any case, using SATA-3 with pure spinning disk hard drives is a waste as even enterprise disks have a peak transfer rate of about 200MB/s at best, consumer disks have a rate of 100 to 150 MB/s; SATA-2 maximum is around 300MB/s.
As you're talking about help, consider this: the current MacBook Air with PCI storage is a "real computer" by your definition.
Now somebody takes out the flash storage and runs it off a much slower USB drive. They're using the same programs as they did when running from the flash drive, yet by your definition, they no longer have a "real computer'.
You need to rethink what makes a "real computer", hint: it is not the storage which does the computing!
An iPad can run many programs that do indeed calculate and compute.
People have found it is as real a computer for them as anything else.
You're really struggling, it's not relevant to the argument that I didn't quote the SATA-3, being slower than PCI flash storage, as being in one of your "real computers".
You can't even help yourself so how can you help me?
In any case, using SATA-3 with pure spinning disk hard drives is a waste as even enterprise disks have a peak transfer rate of about 200MB/s at best, consumer disks have a rate of 100 to 150 MB/s; SATA-2 maximum is around 300MB/s.
As you're talking about help, consider this: the current MacBook Air with PCI storage is a "real computer" by your definition.
Now somebody takes out the flash storage and runs it off a much slower USB drive. They're using the same programs as they did when running from the flash drive, yet by your definition, they no longer have a "real computer'.
You need to rethink what makes a "real computer", hint: it is not the storage which does the computing!
An iPad can run many programs that do indeed calculate and compute.
People have found it is as real a computer for them as anything else.
Of course I cannot help you becuase you to continue to cherry pick and take words and phrases out of context. You continue to latch onto the part about pcie storage even after I clearly pointed out that's not what I said both literally and figuratively.
Here i'll start a new train of thought. In this case i'll consider OSX to constitute the class real computer and iOS to constitute the class of mobile device.
.
.
In a "real computer" I expect to get PCI-E based flash storage or at the very least, SATA 3. Even now SATA3 is considered out-dated. And as you say, it does cost more, but that is what I expect when I buy a Mac.
.
.
However recent Macs gained full multitasking, I still prefer to have it over iOS which doesn't have it to the same degree.
Originally Posted by staticx57
Of course I cannot help you becuase you to continue to cherry pick and take words and phrases out of context. You continue to latch onto the part about pcie storage even after I clearly pointed out that's not what I said both literally and figuratively.
It appears you have difficulty remembering what you post or perhaps what somebody else posts on your account. It may be an idea to read what you've already posted before adding some new posts.
I used PCI flash as an example of fast storage, it's unnecessary to list all types of fast storage when doing so doesn't add to the argument you're making, in the same way that listing many different brands of sports car doesn't add to the debate of whether a sports car is faster than a jet aircraft.
Your argument appeared to be that a computer isn't a "real computer" unless it has fast storage.
I counter that a computer is computer irrespective of the speed of the storage attached to it.
You need some argument other than flash storage to show why an iPad isn't a "real computer".
You put iOS devices in a class of mobile device and OS X as real computers, yet the current MacBook running OS X is as portable as an iPad, so shouldn't the MacBook be a mobile device?
You may argue a "real computer" has an OS capable of running software development kits but by that definition current supercomputers will be mere toys!
Some help from me to you after your previous offer of help to me.
It appears you have difficulty remembering what you post or perhaps what somebody else posts on your account. It may be an idea to read what you've already posted before adding some new posts.
I used PCI flash as an example of fast storage, it's unnecessary to list all types of fast storage when doing so doesn't add to the argument you're making, in the same way that listing many different brands of sports car doesn't add to the debate of whether a sports car is faster than a jet aircraft.
Your argument appeared to be that a computer isn't a "real computer" unless it has fast storage.
I counter that a computer is computer irrespective of the speed of the storage attached to it.
You need some argument other than flash storage to show why an iPad isn't a "real computer".
You put iOS devices in a class of mobile device and OS X as real computers, yet the current MacBook running OS X is as portable as an iPad, so shouldn't the MacBook be a mobile device?
You may argue a "real computer" has an OS capable of running software development kits but by that definition current supercomputers will be mere toys!
Some help from me to you after your previous offer of help to me.
Yes, I have forgotten what I posted so badly that I even quoted it. My argument only "appears" to be about fast storage because you only quote that part over and over. Again, you take it out of context, yes, fast storage is one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 era Mac that is not one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 iPad. But do keep quoting one part of one sentence of a whole post and pretend it is the only part there. At least you have finally moved on from soley PCI-E storage to the rest of the sentence. Maybe after this you can address the rest of my post.
As for the new Macbook, yea, sure go ahead and call it a mobile device. But keep in mind that it runs a much more powerful and flexible OS. Although it does disappoint with only one USB port.
It will be interesting to see third parties redesign their keyboards to take advantage this new functionality, I might be interested in a new iPad this year and maybe finally get a Bluetooth keyboard
Give the discussion a rest you are digging a deeper hole to bury yourself.
Originally Posted by staticx57
While most of this is true, you ignore the fact that a Mac affords so much more flexibility than what an iPad can do.
.
.
Calculators execute code, are they computers?
Not true
Originally Posted by staticx57
Yes, I have forgotten what I posted so badly that I even quoted it. My argument only "appears" to be about fast storage because you only quote that part over and over. Again, you take it out of context, yes, fast storage is one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 era Mac that is not one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 iPad. But do keep quoting one part of one sentence of a whole post and pretend it is the only part there. At least you have finally moved on from soley PCI-E storage to the rest of the sentence. Maybe after this you can address the rest of my post.
As for the new Macbook, yea, sure go ahead and call it a mobile device. But keep in mind that it runs a much more powerful and flexible OS [than the mobile device such as an iPad].
Well, at least his position has moved from not considering an iPad as a computer, implied by his statement:
Calculators execute code, are they computers?
Not true
to realising that an iPad mobile device is a computer that runs an OS that's not as powerful as OS X:
As for the new Macbook, yea, sure go ahead and call it a mobile device. But keep in mind that it runs a much more powerful and flexible OS [than an iPad mobile device].
I have addressed the rest of his post and his other posts in general yet he's still hung up that I didn't mention SATA-3 storage in the rest of his sentence when I responded to his post.
I don't believe he's sure of his own argument against an iPad not being a computer and has consistently failed to put across a clear argument.
An iPad may not be able to as much multitasking as a Mac or offer as wide a range of features, but it is still a fully programmable computer.
You can't even argue an iPad can't be a real computer because it doesn't run its own software development kit, otherwise supercomputers won't be real computers as they don't run their own software development kits.
It will be interesting to see third parties redesign their keyboards to take advantage this new functionality, I might be interested in a new iPad this year and maybe finally get a Bluetooth keyboard
Fingers crossed, if you'll pardon the pun, we will see those new redesigned keyboards within third party apps very quickly thanks to the high iOS adoption rates, especially as iOS 9 will run on all hardware running iOS 8.
Yes, I have forgotten what I posted so badly that I even quoted it. My argument only "appears" to be about fast storage because you only quote that part over and over. Again, you take it out of context, yes, fast storage is one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 era Mac that is not one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 iPad. But do keep quoting one part of one sentence of a whole post and pretend it is the only part there. At least you have finally moved on from soley PCI-E storage to the rest of the sentence. Maybe after this you can address the rest of my post.
As for the new Macbook, yea, sure go ahead and call it a mobile device. But keep in mind that it runs a much more powerful and flexible OS. Although it does disappoint with only one USB port.
Last time I checked, the world is still full of PCs with platter harddrives that are slower than the Flash memory in the first iOS devices.
And a computer does NOT have to have a keyboard; I haven't seen people arguing that stuff like the Altair isn't a computer.
While most of this is true, you ignore the fact that a Mac affords so much more flexibility than what an iPad can do.
A Mac has unlimited multitasking in which you decide what is allowed to run in the background.
Not all Macs have LED displays, in fact, not all Macs have displays. You have the choice of what display to use with your Mac.
While both have some form of flash storage, a Mac and iPad of the same year differ vastly in the power and speed and the storage amount
Calculators execute code, are they computers?
Not true
Don't even begin to compare a Mac's extensive I/O to an iPad's single lightning port
Do keep going. I have both a MBP and iPad Air 2, but I never mix the use of either.
PROBLEM DETECTED: Tunnel-Vision
If this problem continues, please see your System Administrator.
I have addressed the rest of his post and his other posts in general yet he's still hung up that I didn't mention SATA-3 storage in the rest of his sentence when I responded to his post.
I don't believe he's sure of his own argument against an iPad not being a computer and has consistently failed to put across a clear argument.
I am honestly not sure if you miss the point or flagrantly ignore it to fit your view. I am not "hung up" on SATA 3. I am hung up on the fact that you ignored the post in general and decide to snip part of a sentence and only use that to make some point. A point which I never implied had you read the whole thing. It never was about PCI-E storage like you went on and said for how many posts? PCI_E and SATA3 are examples of fast storage you can expect with current shipping Macs. Something you do not get with iPads.
Of course I never that it did not meet the technical definition of "computer," a fact you also conveniently ignored in my post. In fact if you read my posts, and read the whole things. I was never fixated on a technical definition like you seem so stuck on.
Does this make more clear what my point is?
"Both run a multithreaded operating system."
A Mac has unlimited multitasking in which you decide what is allowed to run in the background.
"Both have LED displays."
Not all Macs have LED displays, in fact, not all Macs have displays. You have the choice of what display to use with your Mac.
"Both have flash storage."
While both have some form of flash storage, a Mac and iPad of the same year differ vastly in the power and speed and the storage amount
"Both execute code."
Calculators execute code, are they computers?
"Both have wireless and cameras."
Not true
"Both have I/O."
Don't even begin to compare a Mac's extensive I/O to an iPad's single lightning port
I never disagreed on the technical definition. Unlike you that decided that "calculators/ executing code" and "Not true" should be paired as if I said otherwise. Not true dealt with his point of all Macs having cameras. By definition calculators are computers, but I do not think many people will decide to go out and buy a calculator over an iPad or MBP because they both execute code. In the same sense, when I think of a "real computer," I think of a relatively powerful laptop or desktop machine. And yes, when I say relatively powerful I do mean it. The new Macbook is underwhelming for sure in this regard.
Comments
i wouldn't prefer that. I like to input line breaks. I also wouldn't want an accidental enter tap to send before I'm ready.
none of what you've said has anything to do with the iPad being a computer. the original Macintosh didn't have multitasking, a choice of displays, or a hard drive -- yet only a fool would claim it wasn't a computer. but if you insist that it wasn't, I will accept that as a possibility.
it's complete nonsense, isn't it?
nobody's twisting words. you claimed an iPad wasn't a "real computer", got called out for being completely wrong, then changed the definition of what a computer is to match your claim. classic goalpost moving.
none of what you've said has anything to do with the iPad being a computer. the original Macintosh didn't have multitasking, a choice of displays, or a hard drive -- yet only a fool would claim it wasn't a computer. but if you insist that it wasn't, I will accept that as a possibility.
The original Macintosh also came out in the 80s, things have changed since then. We are comparing current era technologies to current era technologies. You may want to believe the iPad and the Mac are on the same level, but I will continue to believe they aren't
It's very much in context, the majority of desktop, laptop and tablet computers being manufactured today, do not use PCI Flash storage.
Therefore either most of these devices aren't "real computers" or your concept of what makes a "real computer" is flawed.
The key advantage of a tablet is not having to be encumbered with a physical keyboard. Personally I'd be very happy to trade the screen space and key size for command-c/x & v plus a few more shortcuts and the arrow keys would make it easier to navigate within input fields in the likes of comment sections such as this.
Surely not an impossible ask and it would make iOs so much more sophisticated and flexible in one fell swoop.
It's very much in context, the majority of desktop, laptop and tablet computers being manufactured today, do not use PCI Flash storage.
Therefore either most of these devices aren't "real computers" or your concept of what makes a "real computer" is flawed.
You know, if you want to debate about this, quote my whole sentence. Don't truncate it and then make a big deal about it. I very clearly did not limit it to PCI-E like you are. Here, I will help you.
In a "real computer" I expect to get PCI-E based flash storage or at the very least, SATA 3.
You know, if you want to debate about this, quote my whole sentence. Don't truncate it and then make a big deal about it. I very clearly did not limit it to PCI-E like you are. Here, I will help you.
You're really struggling, it's not relevant to the argument that I didn't quote the SATA-3, being slower than PCI flash storage, as being in one of your "real computers".
You can't even help yourself so how can you help me?
In any case, using SATA-3 with pure spinning disk hard drives is a waste as even enterprise disks have a peak transfer rate of about 200MB/s at best, consumer disks have a rate of 100 to 150 MB/s; SATA-2 maximum is around 300MB/s.
As you're talking about help, consider this: the current MacBook Air with PCI storage is a "real computer" by your definition.
Now somebody takes out the flash storage and runs it off a much slower USB drive. They're using the same programs as they did when running from the flash drive, yet by your definition, they no longer have a "real computer'.
You need to rethink what makes a "real computer", hint: it is not the storage which does the computing!
An iPad can run many programs that do indeed calculate and compute.
People have found it is as real a computer for them as anything else.
Of course I cannot help you becuase you to continue to cherry pick and take words and phrases out of context. You continue to latch onto the part about pcie storage even after I clearly pointed out that's not what I said both literally and figuratively.
Here i'll start a new train of thought. In this case i'll consider OSX to constitute the class real computer and iOS to constitute the class of mobile device.
.
.
In a "real computer" I expect to get PCI-E based flash storage or at the very least, SATA 3. Even now SATA3 is considered out-dated. And as you say, it does cost more, but that is what I expect when I buy a Mac.
.
.
However recent Macs gained full multitasking, I still prefer to have it over iOS which doesn't have it to the same degree.
Of course I cannot help you becuase you to continue to cherry pick and take words and phrases out of context. You continue to latch onto the part about pcie storage even after I clearly pointed out that's not what I said both literally and figuratively.
It appears you have difficulty remembering what you post or perhaps what somebody else posts on your account. It may be an idea to read what you've already posted before adding some new posts.
I used PCI flash as an example of fast storage, it's unnecessary to list all types of fast storage when doing so doesn't add to the argument you're making, in the same way that listing many different brands of sports car doesn't add to the debate of whether a sports car is faster than a jet aircraft.
Your argument appeared to be that a computer isn't a "real computer" unless it has fast storage.
I counter that a computer is computer irrespective of the speed of the storage attached to it.
You need some argument other than flash storage to show why an iPad isn't a "real computer".
You put iOS devices in a class of mobile device and OS X as real computers, yet the current MacBook running OS X is as portable as an iPad, so shouldn't the MacBook be a mobile device?
You may argue a "real computer" has an OS capable of running software development kits but by that definition current supercomputers will be mere toys!
Some help from me to you after your previous offer of help to me.
It appears you have difficulty remembering what you post or perhaps what somebody else posts on your account. It may be an idea to read what you've already posted before adding some new posts.
I used PCI flash as an example of fast storage, it's unnecessary to list all types of fast storage when doing so doesn't add to the argument you're making, in the same way that listing many different brands of sports car doesn't add to the debate of whether a sports car is faster than a jet aircraft.
Your argument appeared to be that a computer isn't a "real computer" unless it has fast storage.
I counter that a computer is computer irrespective of the speed of the storage attached to it.
You need some argument other than flash storage to show why an iPad isn't a "real computer".
You put iOS devices in a class of mobile device and OS X as real computers, yet the current MacBook running OS X is as portable as an iPad, so shouldn't the MacBook be a mobile device?
You may argue a "real computer" has an OS capable of running software development kits but by that definition current supercomputers will be mere toys!
Some help from me to you after your previous offer of help to me.
Yes, I have forgotten what I posted so badly that I even quoted it. My argument only "appears" to be about fast storage because you only quote that part over and over. Again, you take it out of context, yes, fast storage is one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 era Mac that is not one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 iPad. But do keep quoting one part of one sentence of a whole post and pretend it is the only part there. At least you have finally moved on from soley PCI-E storage to the rest of the sentence. Maybe after this you can address the rest of my post.
As for the new Macbook, yea, sure go ahead and call it a mobile device. But keep in mind that it runs a much more powerful and flexible OS. Although it does disappoint with only one USB port.
While most of this is true, you ignore the fact that a Mac affords so much more flexibility than what an iPad can do.
.
.
Calculators execute code, are they computers?
Not true
Yes, I have forgotten what I posted so badly that I even quoted it. My argument only "appears" to be about fast storage because you only quote that part over and over. Again, you take it out of context, yes, fast storage is one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 era Mac that is not one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 iPad. But do keep quoting one part of one sentence of a whole post and pretend it is the only part there. At least you have finally moved on from soley PCI-E storage to the rest of the sentence. Maybe after this you can address the rest of my post.
As for the new Macbook, yea, sure go ahead and call it a mobile device. But keep in mind that it runs a much more powerful and flexible OS [than the mobile device such as an iPad].
Well, at least his position has moved from not considering an iPad as a computer, implied by his statement:
to realising that an iPad mobile device is a computer that runs an OS that's not as powerful as OS X:
I have addressed the rest of his post and his other posts in general yet he's still hung up that I didn't mention SATA-3 storage in the rest of his sentence when I responded to his post.
I don't believe he's sure of his own argument against an iPad not being a computer and has consistently failed to put across a clear argument.
An iPad may not be able to as much multitasking as a Mac or offer as wide a range of features, but it is still a fully programmable computer.
You can't even argue an iPad can't be a real computer because it doesn't run its own software development kit, otherwise supercomputers won't be real computers as they don't run their own software development kits.
It will be interesting to see third parties redesign their keyboards to take advantage this new functionality, I might be interested in a new iPad this year and maybe finally get a Bluetooth keyboard
Fingers crossed, if you'll pardon the pun, we will see those new redesigned keyboards within third party apps very quickly thanks to the high iOS adoption rates, especially as iOS 9 will run on all hardware running iOS 8.
i wouldn't prefer that. I like to input line breaks. I also wouldn't want an accidental enter tap to send before I'm ready.
But it would be consistent with Messages on the Mac? SHIFT + ENTER is better for line breaks when dealing with Text Chat/SMS Applications.
Yes, I have forgotten what I posted so badly that I even quoted it. My argument only "appears" to be about fast storage because you only quote that part over and over. Again, you take it out of context, yes, fast storage is one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 era Mac that is not one of the defining characteristics of a 2015 iPad. But do keep quoting one part of one sentence of a whole post and pretend it is the only part there. At least you have finally moved on from soley PCI-E storage to the rest of the sentence. Maybe after this you can address the rest of my post.
As for the new Macbook, yea, sure go ahead and call it a mobile device. But keep in mind that it runs a much more powerful and flexible OS. Although it does disappoint with only one USB port.
Last time I checked, the world is still full of PCs with platter harddrives that are slower than the Flash memory in the first iOS devices.
PROBLEM DETECTED: Tunnel-Vision
If this problem continues, please see your System Administrator.
Originally Posted by ChiA
I have addressed the rest of his post and his other posts in general yet he's still hung up that I didn't mention SATA-3 storage in the rest of his sentence when I responded to his post.
I don't believe he's sure of his own argument against an iPad not being a computer and has consistently failed to put across a clear argument.
I am honestly not sure if you miss the point or flagrantly ignore it to fit your view. I am not "hung up" on SATA 3. I am hung up on the fact that you ignored the post in general and decide to snip part of a sentence and only use that to make some point. A point which I never implied had you read the whole thing. It never was about PCI-E storage like you went on and said for how many posts? PCI_E and SATA3 are examples of fast storage you can expect with current shipping Macs. Something you do not get with iPads.
Of course I never that it did not meet the technical definition of "computer," a fact you also conveniently ignored in my post. In fact if you read my posts, and read the whole things. I was never fixated on a technical definition like you seem so stuck on.
Does this make more clear what my point is?
"Both run a multithreaded operating system."
A Mac has unlimited multitasking in which you decide what is allowed to run in the background.
"Both have LED displays."
Not all Macs have LED displays, in fact, not all Macs have displays. You have the choice of what display to use with your Mac.
"Both have flash storage."
While both have some form of flash storage, a Mac and iPad of the same year differ vastly in the power and speed and the storage amount
"Both execute code."
Calculators execute code, are they computers?
"Both have wireless and cameras."
Not true
"Both have I/O."
Don't even begin to compare a Mac's extensive I/O to an iPad's single lightning port
I never disagreed on the technical definition. Unlike you that decided that "calculators/ executing code" and "Not true" should be paired as if I said otherwise. Not true dealt with his point of all Macs having cameras. By definition calculators are computers, but I do not think many people will decide to go out and buy a calculator over an iPad or MBP because they both execute code. In the same sense, when I think of a "real computer," I think of a relatively powerful laptop or desktop machine. And yes, when I say relatively powerful I do mean it. The new Macbook is underwhelming for sure in this regard.