TechTV: Mad at .mac, not planning to buy Jaguar

yadda yadda yadda · July 17, 2002 6:37PM

I was watching The Screen Savers on TechTV and heard a few interesting things...

Leo Laporte: "Two things made me mad, first, iTools is gonna cost $100 a year now, and then they're charging $129 to upgrade to Jaguar! I've never seen full price being charged before for a point-release! There is NO upgrade!"

later in the show...

Leo Laporte: "My prediction, this is gonna be the most pirated OS in the world, I mean, hey guys, you don't charge full price for a point-release! I'm certainly not gonna buy it."

Brett Larson: "Yeah, I'm not planning on buying Jaguar any time soon."

So, main point, yay, we are not alone. The TV guys share our point of view.

frawgz · July 17, 2002 6:48PM

IMO Jaguar is a very significant upgrade. Does it matter that it's a point release? Would it make you feel better if they named it 10.5 or 11?

yadda yadda yadda · July 17, 2002 6:52PM

Well, another point that Leo brought up was that Mac OS X should've supposedly "had the features and speed of Jaguar to begin with," and he "doesn't want to pay twice for the same OS."

Jaguar is definitely a significant upgrade, but I think I agree with Leo on this one.

rentedmule · July 17, 2002 6:53PM

Normally, TechTV is alright when dealing with Macs. But do these guys even know what they're talking about?

10.2 is huge. Hardware acceleration, better finder, better everything.

Granted, $129 is a little steep, but this is no regular ".1 increase"

"The TV guys share our point of view."?? Not this point of view.

telomar · July 17, 2002 7:00PM

Personally I'm not too displeased although aiming at $99 might have been better. Just the psychological $100 mark not being broken is all.

In the end aparts from some of the performance enhancements the rest isn't stuff that should have been in an old release and there is a lot of great stuff there. I have no great disappointment in having to pay full price I think it will easily be worth it.

Besides which if you don't like .Mac for $100 a year then don't join (or sign up before September 30). If all you want is a free email they will still be offering that.

leonis · July 17, 2002 7:01PM

I am not expecting Jaguar to be free.

But at least Apple should honor those 10.1 users discounts. But they don't. This is why I am so fu(king mad

ti fighter · July 17, 2002 7:02PM

they are not very mac savy on tech tv, leo does knows his sh#t and he does promote mac stuff, but this is a pretty stupid comment made by them. Bret larson is a moron imo. Sure we can talk sh#t about how it sucks here, but if i was on tv and was the "mac guy" i would never say something like that, id want to try to get people to buy apple stuff cuz i think its good for them , not tell people to pirate. Bret larson is their bitch, "yes leo and patrick what ever you say, jaguar bad"

eman · July 17, 2002 7:03PM

[quote]Originally posted by yadda yadda yadda:



Leo Laporte: "My prediction, this is gonna be the most pirated OS in the world, I mean, hey guys, you don't charge full price for a point-release! I'm certainly not gonna buy it."

<hr></blockquote>

I have a feeling he's right about that.

rok · July 17, 2002 7:09PM

so i have three proof-of-purchase coupons in my os x.1 box... what am i supposed touse them for? suggestions? (keep it clean, fellas)

pscates · July 17, 2002 7:22PM

My prediction (remember this in 3-4 weeks): Jaguar will be "re-thought" by Apple.

I don't think anyone will pay $129 for it, once all is said and done.

I agree about that "psychological barrier" of $100 being broken.

However, having said that, I'm not upset in the least. This looks to be a MAJOR upgrade, and, in my opinion, worth the clams. This COULD be called 10.5 and nobody would argue.

shetline · July 17, 2002 7:25PM

I'd still like to see an upgrade price for those who've bought a computer recently. Hmmm... going back six months, or even just three, would make me happy

But I don't think the price is at all unreasonable. I spent $100 for an XP upgrade for my PC, and the main reason I spent the money was that the Windows ME that came preinstalled on my system was so unstable, crashing my system any where from four times a week to four times a day.

For those who say Jaguar is simply what OS X should have been all along, I kind of see their point, but I also have sympathy for what an enormous task bringing us OS X has been, and when I compare what Microsoft's upgrade got me, Jaguar is a bargain!

Windows ME -> Windows XP Home: Price $100. Replaced a terribly unstable system with a stable one, added some cheesy window dressing, and a lot of nagware. (Passport account! Passport account! Hey, buddy... what about that Passport account?). Dumbed-down user interface (not a plus for me). Upgrade disc can't be used for a fresh install by itself. I ever my drive dies, I'll have to first reinstall Windows ME from the sleazy no-real-copy-of-Windows-for-the-price "System Restore" discs that came with my PC, and THEN reinstall XP on top of that. (Don't want that hassle? That'll be another $100, please!)

10.1 -> 10.2: Price $130. Fixes a few annoying, bugs in an otherwise very stable system. Adds many cool new features, and adds nothing to annoy me or nag at me. Doesn't try to coerce me into vendor-specific formats and services to the deliberate exclusion of open formats. I get a full-fledged and independent OS installation disc that doesn't require me to install on top of an old copy of the OS or provide a serial number that never came with my computer in the first place.

[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: shetline ]

yadda yadda yadda · July 17, 2002 7:26PM

[quote]Originally posted by pscates:

This COULD be called 10.5 and nobody would argue.<hr></blockquote>

I think that's true. Maybe some people would still argue that Mac OS X should've been like this to begin with, but that extra 0.3 would probably make more people willing to spend the money. Another psychological thing, I guess.

keyboardf12 · July 17, 2002 7:27PM

leo strikes me as a "know just enough" to be dangerous weenie.

I hope he doesn;t think he is actually a mac guru.

mark- card carrying fanaticrealist · July 17, 2002 7:30PM

[quote]Originally posted by yadda yadda yadda:

Well, another point that Leo brought up was that Mac OS X should've supposedly "had the features and speed of Jaguar to begin with," and he "doesn't want to pay twice for the same OS."

Jaguar is definitely a significant upgrade, but I think I agree with Leo on this one.<hr></blockquote>

Like XP has equivalents of all of the iApps as standard!

$25 for iSync, $25 for iCal: That's $50 of your $129, which makes it a $79 upgrade - yes, $79, which if you keep Jaguar running for a full calendar year will work out at $0.21 per day.

And if you want to go for Upgrade Advantage on XP, how much does that cost???

ghost_user_name · July 17, 2002 7:31PM

OS X 10.2 doesn't really offer me enough to justify spending the kind of cash Apple is asking. Ditto on .Mac

So I like 10.1.5 It does everything I need it to do. I have all the cool apps that I need. Some of these Apple has copied (Watson, Fire), at least functionally. I especially like Watson and had no problem paying $35 for it. I like Fire, and I have AIM and Yahoo! IM. I have MS Office X. I still have my Newton that I still use. I don't own all the stuff iSync syncs with. Maybe after I buy all that stuff, and make other purchases for things that I need, maybe then I'll upgrade. By then we may be up to 10.3 or 10.4, and by not upgrading at every point release (even significant ones), I'll save a few hundred bucks. I can use that toward the new iBook/Powerbook and end up with the most up to date Mac OS X at the time.

groverat · July 17, 2002 7:32PM

If this isn't enough to warrant a 10.5 and the full price, then Apple has been overcharging for their OS up to this point.

jakeman · July 17, 2002 7:40PM

jaguar is 10x the upgrade value when compared to something like the OS 8 to OS 9 jump.

[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Jakeman ]

barto · July 17, 2002 7:51PM

My opinion on Jaguar licencing:

Apple has switched from the old 7.0, 7.1, 7.5, 7.6, 8.0, 8.1, 8.5, 8.6, 9.0, 9.1 version number scheme.

In that scheme, it made sense to give the minor .1 updates away, charge for a .5 upgrade and make users pay for a new Mac OS (ei 8 and 9).

Now, Apple seems to have switched to a WIERD naming scheme.

Mac OS X PB was $30

Mac OS X Cheeter was $119 (from memory), and $30 less if you bought the PB

Mac OS X Puma was a free upgrade (but a big one)

Mac OS X Jaguar is full version only.

WTF? I know I'm confused.

IMHO Apple should announce a new policy: For ALL future Mac OS X updates there will be NO upgrade version, instead each version will be $69 (or so) for a full version. That would get rid of all confusion and be a reasonable price.

That way also (for example) ppl who bought Macs loaded with Cheeter can buy whatever the call 10.3 for a reasonable price, even though they wouldn't be able to buy an upgrade version even if it did exist.

My opinion on .Mac:

The anti-virus software is a bit of a rip-off. I mean, being Mac users how about giving us something useful like SystemWorks or Drive 10?

In the end, it's $100 for a slightly improved iTools. Now, iTools (if you use iMovie, iPhoto and iCal where you can upload/sync data over iTools/.Mac) is probably worth $100 a year (definatly with the 100MB online storage/15MB e-mail). I won't mind paying for it, but it is drug-dealer tactics. The first 2.5 years have been free, now pay-up. I'm addicted to HomePage!

Barto

mooseman · July 17, 2002 7:52PM

...groverat, do you ever say anything intelligent?

Have you used 10.2? There are so many new features and upgrades I couldn't even begin to list them all. Its a much much much bigger jump than from 10.0 to 10.1.

Jeez, its a huge jump. CUPS, QuartzExtreme, Rendezvous, Bluetooth, update to nearly every utility app, the list is so long Iit would take me half an hour to put it all in here.

I don't get all the bitchin, personally. Everybody wants soemthing for nothing, I guess.

[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: mooseman ]

ghost_user_name · July 17, 2002 7:55PM

I don't think OS X 10.2 is overpriced. If I was on10.0.x I'd buy Jaguar. But it doesn't offer me enough to justify the expense. The extra iApps I don't need yet, and my 8 month old iBook 600 with ATi RAGE 128 Mobility won't work with Quartz Extreme. 10.1.5 works great on my iBook. I'll upgrade when the new version offers me enough to justify the expense, or when I buy a new Mac.

It's the pulling back of iTools that I'm most unhappy with. iTools is/was a selling feature of my iBook. It's important enough to be on the box. And now it's gone. So when I sell my iBook, do I scratch out the iTools logo and description on the box? That's what Apple has just done. I liked my little iDisk and mac.com email, but not enough to pay an additional $100/year. I have enough fees to pay each year, from my mobile phone, internet access, multi-fee phone bill, multi-fee electricity bill, multi-fee cable TV bill, insurance bills, parking fees, banking fees, even library book loan fees, and now email fees. Someone earlier stated that this is capitalism. Great. Is there anything else? 'Cause I'm sick of all these "little" fees that at the end of the day and the year add up to quite a lot, and really suck the buying power out of my paycheck, making it harder for me to buy a new Mac.

cobra · July 17, 2002 7:56PM

Well, maybe Apple should do it the Microsoft way.

They call point releases Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, Windows ME, and Windows XP.

TechTV: Mad at .mac, not planning to buy Jaguar

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