Proposal To Pissed Old iTool Customers

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
I have a proposal for all of you pissed of old iTools customers. Do the following:



1. Go out, buy an Xserve or some other box,



2. Throw in a few large capacity hard drives



3. Get a multiple T3 connection



4. Register a domain and host it on this box,



5. Give 20 MBs of free space and 5 MBs of e-mail storage



6. Market this service to anyone who wants it world wide



7. Quit your day job to monitor uptimes and DOS attacks, etc.



8. Offer your service for free with no banners, or other means of external marketing to compensate your costs



[ 07-18-2002: Message edited by: Jared ]</p>
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 31
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    come on. you know that is no where near the situation apple is in.



    the fact is Apple is hurtin and they are looking to squeeze money out of the faithful any way possible. Whether it means killing basic iTools and forcing you into a 99 dollar a year subscription or charging full price for jaguar. Apple isn't making enough money selling their crappy computers anymore so they are trying to milk us via alternative methods which they know we'll do even if we don't want to.
  • Reply 2 of 31
    I don't have a problem with Apple offering the .mac expanded services on a subscription basis...



    But, I don't need:



    iDisk

    Virex

    Web hosting

    Online support

    Backup

    ---

    So, all I ask is for Apple to offer email only for free, or maybe like $20/year.



    (Yes, I know there is a page on their website telling how to convert a trial .mac account to an "email only" account, but the "Email Account Management" button it refers to is NOT THERE!!)
  • Reply 2 of 31
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    [quote]Originally posted by applenut:

    <strong>come on. you know that is no where near the situation apple is in.



    the fact is Apple is hurtin and they are looking to squeeze money out of the faithful any way possible. Whether it means killing basic iTools and forcing you into a 99 dollar a year subscription or charging full price for jaguar. Apple isn't making enough money selling their crappy computers anymore so they are trying to milk us via alternative methods which they know we'll do even if we don't want to.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Sounds fair to me. Apple assumed all the risk and never forced anyone into a contract. If people think Webmail and storage are easy things to admin ..let them try themselves. I worked for and ISP that didn't offer as much as .mac with $50 and above DSL lines.



    Fact is the rest of the iApps being free has saved mac users alot of money.



    OSX should retail for $300. Tell me it doesn't offer as many features as XP Pro.



    $8 freakin' dollars a month. A person with a minimum wage job could afford that. The mere fact that you have a computer that runs OSX and iTools betrays your greed.
  • Reply 4 of 31
    jaredjared Posts: 639member
    [quote]Originally posted by applenut:

    <strong>come on. you know that is no where near the situation apple is in.



    the fact is Apple is hurtin and they are looking to squeeze money out of the faithful any way possible. Whether it means killing basic iTools and forcing you into a 99 dollar a year subscription or charging full price for jaguar. Apple isn't making enough money selling their crappy computers anymore so they are trying to milk us via alternative methods which they know we'll do even if we don't want to.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    No maybe not but then again, you try it out. I dare you. You state a hypothesis to your own concern... Apple is in business to not only bring great products to old and new customers but guess what else? To make money! This new economy sucks and it has forced companies both large and microscopic to reevaluate their business strategy for the short and long term.



    Would you rather Apple continue to give away more and more accounts to as many people that want them and then Apple have to buy more and more storage and then come out on a loss? Applenut you and I both know, as well as most smart people this board that Apple does things for a reason and more than most of the time it comes from an internal concern. They are not doing this just to reap pure profit but to pay were pays do. If you really think two million plus accounts (free accounts at that) is not hurting Apple then think again, do it yourself and lets see how long you last.



    I have had the pleasure of working at Apple and just like every other corporation out there, each organization has a budget, a pool of cash if you will. Hardware obviously has a deeper pool but Internet serviced has a relatively shallow one, though again there is cost involved and this is where there budget comes into play - to come out profitable Apple needs to remain on budget. All getting back to the economy, it sucks right and there is very little free money anymore (free money as in free services to the customer that give them an advantage to use this over that).
  • Reply 5 of 31
    dcqdcq Posts: 349member
    [quote]Originally posted by Jared:

    <strong>I have a proposal for all of you pissed of old iTools customers. Do the following:

    [snip]

    [ 07-18-2002: Message edited by: Jared ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I have a proposal for you. Try explaining to your wife that one of the selling points for buying a Mac--that you got all these nice, convenient extras when you paid a bit more for a Mac--is now gone. Try explaining to her that something she thought she was getting as part of the purchase price of the computer is now gone. Try telling her that she is going to have to email everyone who has her email address (a not insignificant number of people) and give them a new email address. Try telling her that she is going to have to update all her web subscriptions and yahoogroups memberships. Then try telling her that she can avoid doing all of this if she pays $100 a year (on top of internet access rates). And try convincing her that Apple isn't actually trying to fleece its loyal customer base out of a few more bucks to pad their bottom line.



    Then--and this is the kicker--try to not feel any resentment whatsoever.



    I actually have several other proposals for anyone who presumes to tell me how I should feel after this .Crap thing landed on me, but I think the moderators would probably ban me if I actually wrote them out.



    One additional comment--this was the first keynote I watched live. Holy shiznits, how boring can you get!?! Note to self: write Jobs a stern letter demanding those two hours of my life back. Charge $99 per year for every year he doesn't give them back.
  • Reply 6 of 31
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    EZ...tell her to stop shopping do damn much and you'd save threefold the .mac costs. Unless you're living in a cardboard box $8 isn't going to Bankrupt you. Cheapskates have no options ..they roam like broke Nomads stubborn and broken begging for for free stuff. It's really quite pathetic.
  • Reply 7 of 31
    addisonaddison Posts: 1,185member
    I suspect that iSync will be such a usefull addition that for many people that will be worth the $99. The ability to Sync. office and home Macs is a briloliant idea.



    The rest is dross as far as I am concerned.
  • Reply 8 of 31
    dcqdcq Posts: 349member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>EZ...tell her to stop shopping do damn much and you'd save threefold the .mac costs. Unless you're living in a cardboard box $8 isn't going to Bankrupt you. Cheapskates have no options ..they roam like broke Nomads stubborn and broken begging for for free stuff. It's really quite pathetic.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Nice sexist stereotyping there, jacka$$. $100 may not mean much to you, but when you're "in between jobs" in a recession, trying to pay exhorbitant rent prices in a state without rent control, trying to save for a house so you don't get completely raped by rental corporations, trying to pay energy bills that keep going up even when you try and keep the AC off in a hot, humid Georgia summer, when you get into arguments about whether or not to go out to a movie because it's too expensive... $100 is a lot of money for a few simple conveniences, and it's a huge pain in the @$$ to have to switch all your email accounts and web subscriptions and notify everyone who needs to stay in touch with you just to avoid paying the $, when you thought that the mac.com would be your permanent email address, even if you switched ISPs. To some people, including me and my family, $100 is a lot of money.



    iTools was a nice extra to buying a Mac that helped justify the fact that Macs are more expensive than PCs. It helped convince both my wife and my parents that shelling out the extra cash was worth it. Particularly with my parents, it made them feel "connected" right away when they bought their iMac. (At this point, I'm not even sure that they're aware that they have email available through their ISP. They sure as he!! won't have any idea how to set it up.) It wasn't THE selling point, but it was A selling point that is now gone.



    I recently convinced my brother to buy an iBook. It was a hard sell. Part of my argument was that we could all share things through iTools/iDisk very easily. He was waiting until after the Expo to see if the iBooks were updated at all, so he hasn't bought yet. I wonder if this will affect his decision? If it does, whoever came up with .Mac should be fired ("penny wise, pound foolish"). The fact that it *could* affect his decision should be worrying enough for Apple.



    Apple's trying to get Wintel users to "Switch," right? So suppose a small percentage of those who otherwise would have switched, don't because (we're talking perceptions here) they don't get anything "extra" from the Mac's higher price. And then they hear about .Mac and suspect (rightly) that Apple will continue to try and fleece them out of more money in the future. Suppose a few thousand people decide not to switch then.



    Is that plus the bad feelings of its rapidly diminishing "fan base" (even if it user base is growing) made up for by the fact that a few thousand people are paying $100 per year? Of course not. But stupid CFOs can point to numbers on a spreadsheet and say "we may not have gotten many people to switch this quarter, but hey, look, we added $90,000 to our bottom line by charging for .Mac."



    BTW, even though Apple is "increasing" a user's iDisk capacity to 100MB, they are not increasing their capacity. They just expect that 90% of iTools users won't pay for the service.



    Final comment. Apple proves it doen't give a rat's ass about its customers when its willing to fleece them, using server space and bandwidth as the justification, when apple.com wastes @$$loads of both hosting g--d--m movie traliers!!!!
  • Reply 9 of 31
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    [quote] Nice sexist stereotyping there, jacka$$. $100 may not mean much to you, but when you're "in between jobs" in a recession, trying to pay exhorbitant rent prices in a state without rent control, trying to save for a house so you don't get completely raped by rental corporations, trying to pay energy bills that keep going up even when you try and keep the AC off in a hot, humid Georgia summer, when you get into arguments about whether or not to go out to a movie because it's too expensive... <hr></blockquote>



    Sorry Dude..didn't know your circumstances. I think Apple's going to let you keep your email for free. That would be the best thing because stability is important for communications.



    [quote] Apple's trying to get Wintel users to "Switch," right? So suppose a small percentage of those who otherwise would have switched, don't because (we're talking perceptions here) they don't get anything "extra" from the Mac's higher price. And then they hear about .Mac and suspect (rightly) that Apple will continue to try and fleece them out of more money in the future. Suppose a few thousand people decide not to switch then. <hr></blockquote>



    Unfortunately I think Microsoft is going to be worse than Apple. They're licking their jobs when thinking about the revenue from foisting Web Services on users. I don't think any of us will be able to get away from it.



    [quote] Final comment. Apple proves it doen't give a rat's ass about its customers when its willing to fleece them, using server space and bandwidth as the justification, when apple.com wastes @$$loads of both hosting g--d--m movie traliers!!!! <hr></blockquote>



    iTools in it's current incarnation just wasn't feasible for Apple. They are victims sometimes of having a "heart" and that's dangerous for a company. Hard decisions had to be made. We that run OUR daily lives face these very same issues day in and day out. .mac will get better and should you and your Wife opt to chose it not only do you get free Virex software but you get to mold and shape the future of this service. Apple will have to work VERY hard to earn and keep your business. They will make it worthwile.



    I have no choice but to sign up when I purchase my next Mac. The potential of iSync and Bluetooth Cell Phones is too compelling.
  • Reply 10 of 31
    jaredjared Posts: 639member
    DCQ Please remove all of the free iApps you have downloaded onto your computer then tell me how satisfied you are.



    Tell your wife the Apple is in business to also make money. If you two are in such a tight place when it comes to finance tell her why Apple is charging, because they are in a tight place as a business - as is everyone else. Everything is relative buddy
  • Reply 11 of 31
    dcqdcq Posts: 349member
    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>

    I think Apple's going to let you keep your email for free. That would be the best thing because stability is important for communications. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    If they did that, I'd be less pissed off. (Thinking about it has actually made me angier, not more reconciled.) But in fact they are not. Go look at the FAQ, which states: "Email address *\tInform your contacts of your new email address if you have one. Any message sent to your Mac.com Email address after the account expiration date will bounce back to the sender. "



    [quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

    <strong>

    iTools in it's current incarnation just wasn't feasible for Apple. They are victims sometimes of having a "heart" and that's dangerous for a company. Hard decisions had to be made. We that run OUR daily lives face these very same issues day in and day out. .mac will get better and should you and your Wife opt to chose it not only do you get free Virex software but you get to mold and shape the future of this service. Apple will have to work VERY hard to earn and keep your business. They will make it worthwile.



    I have no choice but to sign up when I purchase my next Mac. The potential of iSync and Bluetooth Cell Phones is too compelling.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Two things. First, paying $100 a year is not an option at this point for us. Period. Nothing to discuss.



    Second, I think you're a bit too forgiving. Apple made $32 million profit in what is widely acknowledged to be an abyssal tech recession. Maybe not the sterling numbers Wall Street came to expect in the 90s. (But then again, most of those sky-high profits have turned out to be accounting fiction anyway.) They regularly spend lavish amounts of money on crap (movie trailers being only one example) that someone for some reason sees as significant or strategically important. Hell, Jobs could have given back that Lear jet and more than doubled their profits this quarter!



    My experience tells me that the louder I and a bunch of other people yell, the more we show our serious and real displeasure (I'm seriously considering telling my brother he shouldn't buy an iBook in protest), the more likely it is that we'll get something back. (I'm hoping for getting everything back--with an optional premium service if necessary--but I'd be fine with getting the basic email service back, as most people probably would be.)
  • Reply 12 of 31
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    I think Apple will at the least grandfather existing email accounts.
  • Reply 13 of 31
    donnydonny Posts: 231member
    OK, you nailed it. They are taking it ALL away.



    I am pissed too. It is a big selling point to the Mac platform that is now gone. I think Apple is making a huge mistake. The could have a 100/yr premium service with additional space, features, and options.



    People be realistic. No ads on the site? What is that Apple doing at the bottom of my page, then? Many people have said they use the services as a way to convince people to consider a Mac. I know I have used this point myself, sucessfully, many times. It cost money.... DUH! It cost me money to buy the computer. they can build onto the existing services and charge for these features. Most everyone is pissed to unhappy with this choice. It is having an effect. Do not try to deny it.
  • Reply 14 of 31
    jaredjared Posts: 639member
    [quote]Originally posted by DCQ:

    <strong>Second, I think you're a bit too forgiving. Apple made $32 million profit in what is widely acknowledged to be an abyssal tech recession. Maybe not the sterling numbers Wall Street came to expect in the 90s. (But then again, most of those sky-high profits have turned out to be accounting fiction anyway.) They regularly spend lavish amounts of money on crap (movie trailers being only one example) that someone for some reason sees as significant or strategically important. Hell, Jobs could have given back that Lear jet and more than doubled their profits this quarter!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Are you forgetting that Apple have salaries to pay, retail stores to open, hardware and software to research and develop, advertising and marketing? If it is such a hassle for you and that you can not spend 100 dollars, which I understand is a little tight for some people (no I am not being sarcastic) then just use your ISP's e-mail address. Why do you have to have a @mac.com?
  • Reply 15 of 31
    jaredjared Posts: 639member
    [quote]Originally posted by Donny:

    <strong>People be realistic. No ads on the site? What is that Apple doing at the bottom of my page, then? Many people have said they use the services as a way to convince people to consider a Mac. I know I have used this point myself, sucessfully, many times. It cost money.... DUH! It cost me money to buy the computer. they can build onto the existing services and charge for these features. Most everyone is pissed to unhappy with this choice. It is having an effect. Do not try to deny it.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That is correct, no adds. Sure, that is a selling point but if you click on it does it bring up other banners and another webpage on where to buy the fastest PowerMac on earth? Besides the people who use the templates, how bad is it to have that little square of pride? My .mac homepage does not have that on there.



    I never said I would deny and guess what, while the user has to buy the hardware which is costing the user money in their own right, that money as I JUST stated above goes to staff, R&D, advertising and marketing, taxes and everything else there to pay for in a multinational corporation.
  • Reply 16 of 31
    dcqdcq Posts: 349member
    [quote]Originally posted by Jared:

    <strong>DCQ Please remove all of the free iApps you have downloaded onto your computer then tell me how satisfied you are.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. My whole point is that iTools, like the iApps are a part of why I chose Apple and have been trying (successfully) to convince others to do so as well. The scenario is more like Apple saying "Sure, iApps were free, but the economy is bad, so we're going to charge you $100 a year to use them. Even though they may have been an integral part of how you used your computer and why you bought a Mac in the 1st place, if you don't ay us $100 by Sept 30, they will automatically be deleted from your hard drive."



    [quote]Originally posted by Jared:

    <strong>

    Tell your wife the Apple is in business to also make money. If you two are in such a tight place when it comes to finance tell her why Apple is charging, because they are in a tight place as a business - as is everyone else. Everything is relative buddy</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Hey "buddy," see my previous post about Apple being in a "tight place." Poor Apple, only $32,000,000.00 in profit in 3 months. jeez, I feel real sorry for the company. Perhaps if I prostituted myself on the corner and gave the proceeds to Apple, they might be able to raise that a bit. If we all did it, they might even be able to make $40 or 50 million next quarter! Whaddaya say, eh?



    Let's all bend over for Apple! (..."Switch" takes on a whole new meaning in that context. ; ) )
  • Reply 17 of 31
    dcqdcq Posts: 349member
    [quote]Originally posted by Jared:

    <strong>



    Are you forgetting that Apple have salaries to pay, retail stores to open, hardware and software to research and develop, advertising and marketing? If it is such a hassle for you and that you can not spend 100 dollars, which I understand is a little tight for some people (no I am not being sarcastic) then just use your ISP's e-mail address. Why do you have to have a @mac.com?</strong><hr></blockquote>;



    Economics 101. There's a difference between revenue and profit. Profit is what's left after everything is paid for.



    Economics 401. Apple's sitting on $4 billion in past accumulated profit at the moment. Steve is lying when he states that Apple is going to "invest their way out of the recession." If thet were true, they would spend more than they earned. Instead, they are being VERY conservative, and making IMO some VERY bad decisions. They are concentrating on keeping investment to a minimum to keep costs down and profits--however small--rolling in.



    I don't have to have a mac.com email. But about 80% of the people I communicate with via email (a large amount) know my mac.com address and most of my web and yahoogroup subscriptions are in that address as well. Same with my wife and parents. (Guess who will have to make a special trip out to their place and do the transitions for them.) It's a collosal pain in pretty much every part of my body you can imagine.
  • Reply 18 of 31
    jaredjared Posts: 639member
    [quote]Originally posted by DCQ:

    <strong>



    Hey "buddy," see my previous post about Apple being in a "tight place." Poor Apple, only $32,000,000.00 in profit in 3 months. jeez, I feel real sorry for the company. Perhaps if I prostituted myself on the corner and gave the proceeds to Apple, they might be able to raise that a bit. If we all did it, they might even be able to make $40 or 50 million next quarter! Whaddaya say, eh?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    As I said, everything is relative. Companies suffer just like people do, but in different ways. Do you know anything about business? I am sure you do, and I am not being sarcastic, I am sure you are a very smart guy
  • Reply 19 of 31
    jaredjared Posts: 639member
    [quote]Originally posted by DCQ:

    <strong>Apple's sitting on $4 billion in past accumulated profit at the moment.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    For a company like Apple 4 billion is a lot of money, for a company like Dell? That is cheap change. There is also something called security, that is what the 4 billion is for
  • Reply 20 of 31
    cobracobra Posts: 253member
    You can lose a big chunck of money quick though.



    Remember the December 2000 quarter.

    Close to a $250,000,000 loss for a quarter.



    And thats after making quite a few profitable quarters.
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