Truth be told, your response was pretty irrelevant to the thread and my comment that you responded to.
You said they can't change the look, I said I thought it was still ugly, and concluded that it should be less bulky. To me the remarks directly responded to your comment. Perhaps I got a bit off topic on why I am not excited about the Watch but if it looked better and was less bulky I might change my mind.
Right now battery life is great but that will change as soon as we all start relying on power-hungry native watch apps.
I'm not sure this is reality. In many cases native watch apps should be more power efficient.
And even that power consumption is nothing compared to 4G which is exactly where Apple is heading with the watch in a of 2-3 years.
Yep I can see Watch as an iPhone replacement. That might come with new technology though, 4G is a bit power hungry.
In fact I can see many people dropping an iPhone completely and carrying an iPad with them when they really need the screen support. The exact time frame here is a bit difficult to guess at but it is obvious that there is plenty of opportunity with the growth in technology. I'm thinking right now about a bit of science fiction, in this case the original Stargate series where they interacted with the Tolan and the wrist devices the Tolan (sp?) wore which measured body vitals and had other functions. I'm certain that Watch will eventually get there.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. I'd like to use the Workout app and get my current pace and distance on the watch without taking the phone. Are you saying that if I previously did that, the watch is somehow able to track pace and distance on its own for future runs?
Independent tests have confirmed that if you calibrate your watch/pace to your phone's gps, that it is very accurate....certainly enough for non pros.
When the Apple Watch was still a rumor, I was not interested at all. This changed immediately when they showed it off the first time. I love the design. It works flawlessly, battery life is plenty sufficient (including some buffer to allow for the degradation of the battery over time) and it really looks thicker in pictures than it really is. Unless you compare it to some super-flat hand-wound analog watch, the thickness is completely normal.
I do not really miss any functionality, I just hope that some of the third party apps will see some improvements, now that developers can actually test on real watches.
My only real wish for the next model is a bigger (46 mm or so) option. I have rather big wrists and ageing eyes, and I have several analog watches with diameters between 44 and 48 mm, which do not feel too big at all. If Apple goes there, I might even consider going for an Edition then.
If there's a product whose profile should be slimmed down it's one that users wear throughout the day. The watch needs to get thinner, lighter, and there needs to be an option for a round form factor.
Sorry, but how exactly would a round form factor work in your eyes, in terms of UI? Either the UI will need to be COMPLETELY redone, or they will slap the current one on the watch which will look absolutely terrible. Content is composed mostly of text, lists, and images. How exactly do you see this working on a round display? Either everything will be chopped off (like the moto360), or will make horrible use of space. What about 3rd party apps? They will need to all be designed around both square and round displays? Before people claim Apple NEEDS to do something, maybe you should consider the consequences and how that will actually work in the real world.
I was discussing possibility of a physical redesign, and you went on a rant about how you think it's a useless product to begin with.
I did not say it's a useless product. I said there are different use cases. I clearly understand some people find it extremely useful especially those who use the health monitoring workout features. It is not something that I need but that is just me. I thought I made that clear.
Goddamnit. Couldn't Apple just let us lease the watch for a low monthly payment? It would simplify the whole upgrade treadmill. Just return it at the end of its 9 month life when the new model appears on the scene.
If that is the reason, then I would agree. But I think the reason that some of us argue for a longer cycle on the watch is the same reason I am arguing for a longer cycle on the iPad. People buy iPads on a longer upgrade cycle, so since Apple has finite resources it makes sense for them to work on a cycle similar to peoples buying.
That has never worked for any company, you can't manage your product line based on the upgrade cycle of an individual as the are millions of individuals out there all with different needs and different cycles if having free cash to make such buys. Any decent product will have buyers willing to buy every month of the year.
In fact with a world wide economy Apple has been able to demonstrate that the seasonal variations common in America don't have to exist in your sales figures. The after Christmas slump is handily offset now by China and other economies.
The best way to keep customers happy is to be predictable as much as possible. In this regard I would expect Watch debuts to align with other Apple products sometime in the future. That might mean one long or one short cycle followed by predictable releases every year after that.
Not the same. Some people upgrade phones at one year, some wait three or even four. But most are in at every other. So a new phone every year makes sense. If people upgrade iPads at 4-6 years then a new iPad every two years makes sense. If the watch settles into a 3-5 cycle then a new watch every 18 months might work well.
I think you mis the important point here, iPads are sold every month of the year! As such there are always people looking for an improved model. The fact is Apple can effectively improve the iPad every year and thus has good reason to upgrade every year. If they couldn't offer meaningful upgrades every year you might have an argument but that isn't the case.
I am not interested in someone being upset because a new watch is out. I am wondering what makes the most business sense for Apple as a company.
Pridictability makes the most sense for companies like Apple. Annual product releases are easy for consumers to digest.
Until it has GPS built into the watch, I can't see a reason to buy it. Ultimately I'd like to see an altimeter, barometer, and compass as well. This is the standard fare for many of the elite watches today from Suunto, Garmin, and others. Although not everyone is an outdoor enthusiast, we all go places and we all want to know what the weather is, independent of a connection to the phone. I'd love to see what 3rd party developers could do with these three technologies along with everything else built in to the watch. It would have a distinct advantage over many currently on the market.
A camera for FaceTime is no interest to me.
A bigger battery would be nice.
Bottom line is I want it to connect to my phone, but I also want it to stand on it's own at certain times. Currently it is priced too high for what it can do compared to the competition IMO.
The watch needs to get thinner, lighter, and there needs to be an option for a round form factor.
There NEEDS to be an option for a round form factor? I don't see this as a NEED. I'm sure Apple will do just fine selling millions of watches if they never offer a round watch. However, there may very well be some customers who will not want to wear the watch as it currently looks, and will opt for a competitors round watch. So to the extent that Apple places the fashion aspect of this watch over function, I would expect them to eventually offer a round model.
Quote:
Who sleeps with their watch on anyway?...If true, keeping the same form factor just to fit a larger capacity battery and silly camera makes it seem as though they have the wrong priorities.
I think it's hilarious that in one breath you insist there must be a round watch, when that is absolutely non-essential to Apple's success in this space, anymore than offering a "Phablet" was for 5 generations of the iPhone, but in the very next breath denigrate those who would benefit from other features you don't personally want.
Plenty of people sleep with their watches on, and some actually want to wear the ?Watch specifically as a sleep tracker.
As for the camera being "silly", Apple is keenly aware that its customers LOVE to take selfies. And FaceTime is major marketing point for Apple as is the convenience of leaving your phone in your pocket or bag for selling the watch. Adding a camera allows for more candid selfies, and potentially answering FaceTime calls. It also offers the possibility of something serious like face recognition to prevent the backlight coming on when a person is not actually looking at the watch, and keeping it on when a person is looking at it (two widespread complaints from current customers).
So if you want a round watch, that's great, but accept that not every one has the same priority as you do, nor does having differing priorities make them wrong.
If there's a product whose profile should be slimmed down it's one that users wear throughout the day. The watch needs to get thinner, lighter, and there needs to be an option for a round form factor.
LOL Now who's arguing Apple's "obsession with thinness" is a bad thing?
However, I fail to see how making a smartwatch "round" makes any difference. I've heard arguments akin to "but but but more information can be displayed" which falls apart when you consider that neither computer or smartphone displays are round for that reason. I'm beginning to suspect these people simply like the round aesthetics, but aren't willing to use that to justify their little "Apple should..." argument (in the same why Samsung tries to sell the S6 Edge's curved screen as "useful" when in fact people buy it solely for the aesthetics)
Until it has GPS built into the watch, I can't see a reason to buy it. Ultimately I'd like to see an altimeter, barometer, and compass as well. This is the standard fare for many of the elite watches today from Suunto, Garmin, and others. Although not everyone is an outdoor enthusiast, we all go places and we all want to know what the weather is, independent of a connection to the phone. I'd love to see what 3rd party developers could do with these three technologies along with everything else built in to the watch. It would have a distinct advantage over many currently on the market.
Well, of course you want whatever you want, but it should be pretty clear that Apple is not even going in this direction. They use terminology like "timepiece" and "complications" for a reason, they aim for the modern version of analog luxury watches. This is also pretty clear from e.g. their selection of bands, which are all variations (in some cases advancements) of such watches. Nobody with any interest in these considers anything Suunto or Garmin are making "elite" or even wearable, we consider them ugly clunkers.
I expect Apple to only add tons of additional sensors and functionality like GPS if and when it can be done while maintaining useful battery like and a satisfactory overall design. Nobody is able to do that today, maybe because the technology is simply not there.
I mean seriously. If you don't like the Watch, fine.
Seriously somebody posts an honest comment and you fly off at the handle!
By the way the comment wasn't so much about the Apple Watch as it was watches in general. I find myself in the same category, I've never worn a watch. As such I can see a possibility in Apple Watch, maybe not this revision but it is certainly something for me to keep an eye upon.
But why waste eveyone's time and cry your little violin on why you don't have a Watch. WE DON'T CARE.
Ah but you should care. People not buying a Watch can impact its viability as a product. The fact remains at this point in time more people buy cell phones than watches. To sustain sales anywhere near viable numbers Apple will need to attract a lot of reluctant users and change the publics bias against the wearing of Watches. As such knowing the why's and why nots is very important to Apple and its customer base. In other words if you want to see Apple Watch become a compelling product, one that makes people change their habits, then you really need to read posts like this.
Free-form displays are right around the corner, so it's definitely feasible in the near term future.
UI-wise, the problems posed by a round display can be easily solved by Apple. They've already solved the different resolution/sizes before with adaptive display API and tools. This is a non-issue since the watch is intended for quick interactions.
Offering a round form factor would help Apple attract a wide variety of users just like the bands. To some people, the current square watch is too geeky, smartwatchy, and Casio-like. Apple needs to outdo any Breitling or Tag Heuer mechanical-smartwatch hybrid from a jewelry perspective.
The current watch is an experimental first-generation product whose design should be tweaked as Apple learns more about the reason why most people are not buying it yet. If Apple finds out this can be solved with a round display, I think they will make the right 'sacrifices' if there are any.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Sorry, but how exactly would a round form factor work in your eyes, in terms of UI? Either the UI will need to be COMPLETELY redone, or they will slap the current one on the watch which will look absolutely terrible. Content is composed mostly of text, lists, and images. How exactly do you see this working on a round display? Either everything will be chopped off (like the moto360), or will make horrible use of space. What about 3rd party apps?
Sorry, but how exactly would a round form factor work in your eyes, in terms of UI?
Actually I'm left with the opinion that the watch SDK has actually been designed to support watches with round displays.
Either the UI will need to be COMPLETELY redone, or they will slap the current one on the watch which will look absolutely terrible. Content is composed mostly of text, lists, and images. How exactly do you see this working on a round display?
The same way it works on a rectangle.
Either everything will be chopped off (like the moto360), or will make horrible use of space. What about 3rd party apps?
You make unfounded assumptions here. As for third party apps, they will address the screen in the same way that they addressed the different screens on iOS devices.
They will need to all be designed around both square and round displays? Before people claim Apple NEEDS to do something, maybe you should consider the consequences and how that will actually work in the real world.
Yep you should read your own posts before hitting send.
People not buying a Watch can impact its viability as a product. The fact remains at this point in time more people buy cell phones than watches. To sustain sales anywhere near viable numbers Apple will need to attract a lot of reluctant users and change the publics bias against the wearing of Watches. As such knowing the why's and why nots is very important to Apple and its customer base.
Well, it is most likely the best selling watch in human history already (unless some communist state gave some millions away for free). That is certainly "viable". It is still not shipping immediately anywhere, and it has not even reached all countries. That is certainly "viable". Considering the amount of Apple Watches sold, the amount of people buying expensive accessories like bands (I have 5 bands by now which is maybe excessive, but everybody I know bought at least one)... and considering the markup on all these items, it is certainly "viable".
The comparison to an established category like cell phones (which is the best selling non-food product in existence) is just wrong, because nothing can get close – and a watch will always be something people can easily live without, but communication and some internet access is pretty much mandatory today. I also do not see a "bias" against watches, just people who do not need them, or just have different, more important things to spend money on. Apple can't change that fundamentally. Still, just like MP3 players where not considered a must in 2002, and smartphones where not considered a must in 2006, and tablets where not viable in 2010... this will catch on, just maybe not reaching the same volumes.
" This is the standard fare for many of the elite watches today from Suunto, Garmin, and others." GPS? Not present in my Rolex and that has a ,lot more "elite" than any of those.
Goddamnit. Couldn't Apple just let us lease the watch for a low monthly payment? It would simplify the whole upgrade treadmill. Just return it at the end of its 9 month life when the new model appears on the scene.
If it feels like a treadmill then maybe it is time to get off!
I've said it before and I will say it again, I really don't understand the mentality of people that think the have to buy every release of an Apple product. Over the years I've purchased many Apple products and have resisted that trap for all of those years. The closes I've come to falling into that trap is a quick upgrade to an iPad 3 due to it obviously being a major improvement over what I had.
Folks, step back and realize that for the most part Apple sells quality products, they do last a very long time.
LOL Now who's arguing Apple's "obsession with thinness" is a bad thing?
However, I fail to see how making a smartwatch "round" makes any difference.
Because a watch at first is a piece of jewelry! This should be obvious.
I've heard arguments akin to "but but but more information can be displayed" which falls apart when you consider that neither computer or smartphone displays are round for that reason.
Yes but mechanical watches have been that way for centuries now. Such a face can offer a surprising amount of information to the user. Obviously the digital age offers dramatically more variety when it comes to information that can be embedded in a display but that doesn't counter indicate the general acceptance of round watch displays.
I'm beginning to suspect these people simply like the round aesthetics, but aren't willing to use that to justify their little "Apple should..." argument (in the same why Samsung tries to sell the S6 Edge's curved screen as "useful" when in fact people buy it solely for the aesthetics)
It's jewelry first, what do you expect? Certainly Apple might overcome the jewelry stigma in the future but right now there is simply not enough on offer in an Apple Watch to make it more than jewelry.
Comments
Truth be told, your response was pretty irrelevant to the thread and my comment that you responded to.
You said they can't change the look, I said I thought it was still ugly, and concluded that it should be less bulky. To me the remarks directly responded to your comment. Perhaps I got a bit off topic on why I am not excited about the Watch but if it looked better and was less bulky I might change my mind.
In fact I can see many people dropping an iPhone completely and carrying an iPad with them when they really need the screen support. The exact time frame here is a bit difficult to guess at but it is obvious that there is plenty of opportunity with the growth in technology. I'm thinking right now about a bit of science fiction, in this case the original Stargate series where they interacted with the Tolan and the wrist devices the Tolan (sp?) wore which measured body vitals and had other functions. I'm certain that Watch will eventually get there.
Independent tests have confirmed that if you calibrate your watch/pace to your phone's gps, that it is very accurate....certainly enough for non pros.
When the Apple Watch was still a rumor, I was not interested at all. This changed immediately when they showed it off the first time. I love the design. It works flawlessly, battery life is plenty sufficient (including some buffer to allow for the degradation of the battery over time) and it really looks thicker in pictures than it really is. Unless you compare it to some super-flat hand-wound analog watch, the thickness is completely normal.
I do not really miss any functionality, I just hope that some of the third party apps will see some improvements, now that developers can actually test on real watches.
My only real wish for the next model is a bigger (46 mm or so) option. I have rather big wrists and ageing eyes, and I have several analog watches with diameters between 44 and 48 mm, which do not feel too big at all. If Apple goes there, I might even consider going for an Edition then.
If there's a product whose profile should be slimmed down it's one that users wear throughout the day. The watch needs to get thinner, lighter, and there needs to be an option for a round form factor.
Sorry, but how exactly would a round form factor work in your eyes, in terms of UI? Either the UI will need to be COMPLETELY redone, or they will slap the current one on the watch which will look absolutely terrible. Content is composed mostly of text, lists, and images. How exactly do you see this working on a round display? Either everything will be chopped off (like the moto360), or will make horrible use of space. What about 3rd party apps? They will need to all be designed around both square and round displays? Before people claim Apple NEEDS to do something, maybe you should consider the consequences and how that will actually work in the real world.
I was discussing possibility of a physical redesign, and you went on a rant about how you think it's a useless product to begin with.
I did not say it's a useless product. I said there are different use cases. I clearly understand some people find it extremely useful especially those who use the health monitoring workout features. It is not something that I need but that is just me. I thought I made that clear.
In fact with a world wide economy Apple has been able to demonstrate that the seasonal variations common in America don't have to exist in your sales figures. The after Christmas slump is handily offset now by China and other economies.
The best way to keep customers happy is to be predictable as much as possible. In this regard I would expect Watch debuts to align with other Apple products sometime in the future. That might mean one long or one short cycle followed by predictable releases every year after that. I think you mis the important point here, iPads are sold every month of the year! As such there are always people looking for an improved model. The fact is Apple can effectively improve the iPad every year and thus has good reason to upgrade every year. If they couldn't offer meaningful upgrades every year you might have an argument but that isn't the case.
Pridictability makes the most sense for companies like Apple. Annual product releases are easy for consumers to digest.
A camera for FaceTime is no interest to me.
A bigger battery would be nice.
Bottom line is I want it to connect to my phone, but I also want it to stand on it's own at certain times. Currently it is priced too high for what it can do compared to the competition IMO.
The watch needs to get thinner, lighter, and there needs to be an option for a round form factor.
There NEEDS to be an option for a round form factor? I don't see this as a NEED. I'm sure Apple will do just fine selling millions of watches if they never offer a round watch. However, there may very well be some customers who will not want to wear the watch as it currently looks, and will opt for a competitors round watch. So to the extent that Apple places the fashion aspect of this watch over function, I would expect them to eventually offer a round model.
I think it's hilarious that in one breath you insist there must be a round watch, when that is absolutely non-essential to Apple's success in this space, anymore than offering a "Phablet" was for 5 generations of the iPhone, but in the very next breath denigrate those who would benefit from other features you don't personally want.
Plenty of people sleep with their watches on, and some actually want to wear the ?Watch specifically as a sleep tracker.
As for the camera being "silly", Apple is keenly aware that its customers LOVE to take selfies. And FaceTime is major marketing point for Apple as is the convenience of leaving your phone in your pocket or bag for selling the watch. Adding a camera allows for more candid selfies, and potentially answering FaceTime calls. It also offers the possibility of something serious like face recognition to prevent the backlight coming on when a person is not actually looking at the watch, and keeping it on when a person is looking at it (two widespread complaints from current customers).
So if you want a round watch, that's great, but accept that not every one has the same priority as you do, nor does having differing priorities make them wrong.
LOL Now who's arguing Apple's "obsession with thinness" is a bad thing?
However, I fail to see how making a smartwatch "round" makes any difference. I've heard arguments akin to "but but but more information can be displayed" which falls apart when you consider that neither computer or smartphone displays are round for that reason. I'm beginning to suspect these people simply like the round aesthetics, but aren't willing to use that to justify their little "Apple should..." argument (in the same why Samsung tries to sell the S6 Edge's curved screen as "useful" when in fact people buy it solely for the aesthetics)
Until it has GPS built into the watch, I can't see a reason to buy it. Ultimately I'd like to see an altimeter, barometer, and compass as well. This is the standard fare for many of the elite watches today from Suunto, Garmin, and others. Although not everyone is an outdoor enthusiast, we all go places and we all want to know what the weather is, independent of a connection to the phone. I'd love to see what 3rd party developers could do with these three technologies along with everything else built in to the watch. It would have a distinct advantage over many currently on the market.
Well, of course you want whatever you want, but it should be pretty clear that Apple is not even going in this direction. They use terminology like "timepiece" and "complications" for a reason, they aim for the modern version of analog luxury watches. This is also pretty clear from e.g. their selection of bands, which are all variations (in some cases advancements) of such watches. Nobody with any interest in these considers anything Suunto or Garmin are making "elite" or even wearable, we consider them ugly clunkers.
I expect Apple to only add tons of additional sensors and functionality like GPS if and when it can be done while maintaining useful battery like and a satisfactory overall design. Nobody is able to do that today, maybe because the technology is simply not there.
By the way the comment wasn't so much about the Apple Watch as it was watches in general. I find myself in the same category, I've never worn a watch. As such I can see a possibility in Apple Watch, maybe not this revision but it is certainly something for me to keep an eye upon.
Ah but you should care. People not buying a Watch can impact its viability as a product. The fact remains at this point in time more people buy cell phones than watches. To sustain sales anywhere near viable numbers Apple will need to attract a lot of reluctant users and change the publics bias against the wearing of Watches. As such knowing the why's and why nots is very important to Apple and its customer base. In other words if you want to see Apple Watch become a compelling product, one that makes people change their habits, then you really need to read posts like this.
UI-wise, the problems posed by a round display can be easily solved by Apple. They've already solved the different resolution/sizes before with adaptive display API and tools. This is a non-issue since the watch is intended for quick interactions.
Offering a round form factor would help Apple attract a wide variety of users just like the bands. To some people, the current square watch is too geeky, smartwatchy, and Casio-like. Apple needs to outdo any Breitling or Tag Heuer mechanical-smartwatch hybrid from a jewelry perspective.
The current watch is an experimental first-generation product whose design should be tweaked as Apple learns more about the reason why most people are not buying it yet. If Apple finds out this can be solved with a round display, I think they will make the right 'sacrifices' if there are any.
Quote:
Sorry, but how exactly would a round form factor work in your eyes, in terms of UI? Either the UI will need to be COMPLETELY redone, or they will slap the current one on the watch which will look absolutely terrible. Content is composed mostly of text, lists, and images. How exactly do you see this working on a round display? Either everything will be chopped off (like the moto360), or will make horrible use of space. What about 3rd party apps?
Meh. I'll wear the thing from 7 A.M. on and at midnight when I take it off it has yet to be below 60% remaining power. Currently at 91%.
Now if they use that additional available power to bulk up the horsepower of the internals I'd be fine with that. Always welcome more speed and reach.
People not buying a Watch can impact its viability as a product. The fact remains at this point in time more people buy cell phones than watches. To sustain sales anywhere near viable numbers Apple will need to attract a lot of reluctant users and change the publics bias against the wearing of Watches. As such knowing the why's and why nots is very important to Apple and its customer base.
Well, it is most likely the best selling watch in human history already (unless some communist state gave some millions away for free). That is certainly "viable". It is still not shipping immediately anywhere, and it has not even reached all countries. That is certainly "viable". Considering the amount of Apple Watches sold, the amount of people buying expensive accessories like bands (I have 5 bands by now which is maybe excessive, but everybody I know bought at least one)... and considering the markup on all these items, it is certainly "viable".
The comparison to an established category like cell phones (which is the best selling non-food product in existence) is just wrong, because nothing can get close – and a watch will always be something people can easily live without, but communication and some internet access is pretty much mandatory today. I also do not see a "bias" against watches, just people who do not need them, or just have different, more important things to spend money on. Apple can't change that fundamentally. Still, just like MP3 players where not considered a must in 2002, and smartphones where not considered a must in 2006, and tablets where not viable in 2010... this will catch on, just maybe not reaching the same volumes.
" This is the standard fare for many of the elite watches today from Suunto, Garmin, and others." GPS? Not present in my Rolex and that has a ,lot more "elite" than any of those.
If it feels like a treadmill then maybe it is time to get off!
I've said it before and I will say it again, I really don't understand the mentality of people that think the have to buy every release of an Apple product. Over the years I've purchased many Apple products and have resisted that trap for all of those years. The closes I've come to falling into that trap is a quick upgrade to an iPad 3 due to it obviously being a major improvement over what I had.
Folks, step back and realize that for the most part Apple sells quality products, they do last a very long time.
It's jewelry first, what do you expect? Certainly Apple might overcome the jewelry stigma in the future but right now there is simply not enough on offer in an Apple Watch to make it more than jewelry.