You do not own anything but the brick that you purchased. Every single function piece of software on the device belongs to Apple and is subject to their will and whim.
I blame the jailbreak community for giving the wrong impression and intentionally blurring the lines between owning the brick you bought at the store and owning the software installed on it.
If you choose to hack the device, and run whatever POS you want...that is your right.
If you choose to run Apple-sanctioned software, you have no rights to it whatsoever.
"You must update your PlayStation Software to continue."
Yeah, 1 Year in some areas, more in others. But when defects are found after that year or more (recent MacBook graphics card issues) and enough people make noise (as they should), Apple is still accountable, even though those people understood AS PART OF THE PURCHASE, no? You're saying the could and should just walk way, but corporate overloads sometimes care about repeat and happy customers. So they provide software updates with features (and security updates), that yes, sometimes don't make everyone happy... ? I get your point, they shouldn't be forced on you.
I'm waiving the white flag on this. Again, just trying to have some serious discussion points.
I never said "should" just walk away. What they should do and legally can do are two different things. I never said Apple should not update iOS and provide updates and bug fixes. But to your question, after the warranty is over, Apple is under no obligation to fix problems with your device. Sometimes they do if the problem is widespread enough, or sometimes they do for other reasons on smaller individual problems. There may be legal, consumer protection reasons, and it may just to make happy customers and do the right thing.
I never said "should" just walk away. What they should do and legally can do are two different things. I never said Apple should not update iOS and provide updates and bug fixes. But to your question, after the warranty is over, Apple is under no obligation to fix problems with your device. Sometimes they do if the problem is widespread enough, or sometimes they do for other reasons on smaller individual problems. There may be legal, consumer protection reasons, and it may just to make happy customers and do the right thing.
You don't actually own the software (iOS) running on your phone.
You do, however, *have a license to use it*. You have a license to use Apple's property. Same goes for OS X.
The Apple Police won't come knocking on your door if you futz around with it, but Apple is within their right to prevent you (via technical methods *to which you agreed*) or to otherwise enable you to use it as they (not you) intend.
This is nothing new. And you've already agreed to all of the terms to which the above alludes when you clicked on "Agree" (after having read those terms, one might assume) after running the OS for the first time on your phone and after each update thereafter.
Wow...just wow...all hail our corporate overlords I guess?
You are more than welcome to create your own smartphone platform (software/hardware/App Store/SDK). Without Apple you'd be sporting a new Nokia 27535 with no apps except that awesome snake game.
Wow...just wow...all hail our corporate overlords I guess?
Wow. So you didn't read a single word either of us typed. A typical childish response from you, par for the course. Hail our corporate overlords? More like, it's useful to use things called logic and reason, once in a while, which you seem utterly incapable of. I'll defend Apple's decisions when they seem to be rooted in logic and what's best for most consumers, and I'll attack them when that's not the case. It's a nuance you don't seem to understand, as are all your kneejerk attacks without a thought as to the decision making behind what you shit on. You have no fucking understanding of how software works, what you "own", and what you're entitled to, yet you want to attack those who do have a basic understanding of what, and accuse them of being sycophants.
"You must update your PlayStation Software to continue."
Where's the outrage?
I don't think anyone here is claiming they should get to keep the software version they have (or downgrade) and get all the functionality the current version has. What people are objecting to is the idea that Apple should be able to update the software on your phone without your consent. Where in the EULA does it say that?!? From what I can tell all the EULA says is Apple at its discretion may make updates to the software and those updates may not include all features that newer devices get.
Of course if you have a device eligible for newer software and you choose not to update Apple would not be responsible if something went wrong or stopped working. A good example is when Apple messed up FaceTime but never sent a software update to devices running iOS 6 that were iOS 7 eligible. If those people wanted to use FaceTime again they had to update to iOS 7. But again that's completely different than updating your software on your device without your consent.
Wow. So you didn't read a single word either of us typed. A typical childish response from you, par for the course. Hail our corporate overlords? More like, it's useful to use things called logic and reason, once in a while, which you seem utterly incapable of. I'll defend Apple's decisions when they seem to be rooted in logic and what's best for most consumers, and I'll attack them when that's not the case. It's a nuance you don't seem to understand, as are all your kneejerk attacks without a thought as to the decision making behind what you shit on. You have no fucking understanding of how software works, what you "own", and what you're entitled to, yet you want to attack those who do have a basic understanding of what, and accuse them of being sycophants.
No it's called fucking BS. Show me where in Apple's EULA for iOS they have the right to update the software on your device without your consent. It's my phone, if I don't want to update the software Apple can't force me.
You are more than welcome to create your own smartphone platform (software/hardware/App Store/SDK). Without Apple you'd be sporting a new Nokia 27535 with no apps except that awesome snake game.
You don't actually own the software (iOS) running on your phone.
You do, however, *have a license to use it*. You have a license to use Apple's property. Same goes for OS X.
The Apple Police won't come knocking on your door if you futz around with it, but Apple is within their right to prevent you (via technical methods *to which you agreed*) or to otherwise enable you to use it as they (not you) intend.
This is nothing new. And you've already agreed to all of the terms to which the above alludes when you clicked on "Agree" (after having read those terms, one might assume) after running the OS for the first time on your phone and after each update thereafter.
No one here is saying they own the software or have the right to modify it. But Apple owning the software doesn't mean they have the legal right to put it on your phone without your consent. And it's a stupid argument anyway because it's not something Apple has done or will ever do. The closest they came to it was automatically downloading the installer file to people's devices. But they stopped doing that with iOS 8.
They do have the right to do what they just did: pull support from an older version. They could go even further and block old versions from accessing cellular and Internet services. I don't think they would do so, but if a bad enough exploit existed they could. So much of the iPhone's functionality lives on the network now.
Ownership and freedom are all well and good. But updates are the price of security, and judging from android I'm glad Apple has a walled garden.
No it's called fucking BS. Show me where in Apple's EULA for iOS they have the right to update the software on your device without your consent. It's my phone, if I don't want to update the software Apple can't force me.
And what’s to stop them once you’re online? What legal recourse would you have?
I will not, never, ever update to Apple Music until I am forced to with the next System upgrade. I don't want it, I don't want it and I don't want it. Glory are the days of being able to pick and choose applications YOU want and not what Apple wants. I like my iTunes just the way it is, crappy.
It's my device. That trumps everything. I don't have an issue about not allowing downgrading, but it is my device to choose when I want to upgrade, if ever. (and yes, I do upgrade -- I am talking philosophically)
No one here is saying they own the software or have the right to modify it. But Apple owning the software doesn't mean they have the legal right to put it on your phone without your consent. And it's a stupid argument anyway because it's not something Apple has done or will ever do. The closest they came to it was automatically downloading the installer file to people's devices. But they stopped doing that with iOS 8.
By clicking Agree (prior to each and every update) you do consent to it.
No iOS update gets installed without your permission.
Agree to what? Have you found any hint that it (meaning Apple can force upgrade you) is there?
And I do believe that courts have generally found EULAs that are not presented to the user until after purchase as not enforceable. Conditions presented to the purchaser after purchase are generally not valid.
Agree to what? Have you found any hint that it (meaning Apple can force upgrade you) is there?
And I do believe that courts have generally found EULAs that are not presented to the user until after purchase as not enforceable. Conditions presented to the purchaser after purchase are generally not valid.
So, no, I don't think you do/did agree to it.
No update gets installed without your permission.
Prior to each update, you are presented with terms and conditions to which you have the choice of agreeing.
Prior to each update, you are presented with terms and conditions to which you have the choice of agreeing.
Precisely! That is my point. You need to read the previous replies to see what the discussion was about. Some were claiming Apple should force upgrade your phone to the latest iOS.
Comments
"You must update your PlayStation Software to continue."
Where's the outrage?
Yeah, 1 Year in some areas, more in others. But when defects are found after that year or more (recent MacBook graphics card issues) and enough people make noise (as they should), Apple is still accountable, even though those people understood AS PART OF THE PURCHASE, no? You're saying the could and should just walk way, but corporate overloads sometimes care about repeat and happy customers. So they provide software updates with features (and security updates), that yes, sometimes don't make everyone happy... ? I get your point, they shouldn't be forced on you.
I'm waiving the white flag on this. Again, just trying to have some serious discussion points.
I never said "should" just walk away. What they should do and legally can do are two different things. I never said Apple should not update iOS and provide updates and bug fixes. But to your question, after the warranty is over, Apple is under no obligation to fix problems with your device. Sometimes they do if the problem is widespread enough, or sometimes they do for other reasons on smaller individual problems. There may be legal, consumer protection reasons, and it may just to make happy customers and do the right thing.
"You must update your PlayStation Software to continue."
Where's the outrage?
I actually do get disproportionately mad when I want to watch netflix and i have to wait like 4 minutes!
I never said "should" just walk away. What they should do and legally can do are two different things. I never said Apple should not update iOS and provide updates and bug fixes. But to your question, after the warranty is over, Apple is under no obligation to fix problems with your device. Sometimes they do if the problem is widespread enough, or sometimes they do for other reasons on smaller individual problems. There may be legal, consumer protection reasons, and it may just to make happy customers and do the right thing.
I gotcha - ????
Wrong. Restore Home Sharing! (which Apple characteristically did not mention/warn about losing in the upgrade)
You do, however, *have a license to use it*. You have a license to use Apple's property. Same goes for OS X.
The Apple Police won't come knocking on your door if you futz around with it, but Apple is within their right to prevent you (via technical methods *to which you agreed*) or to otherwise enable you to use it as they (not you) intend.
This is nothing new. And you've already agreed to all of the terms to which the above alludes when you clicked on "Agree" (after having read those terms, one might assume) after running the OS for the first time on your phone and after each update thereafter.
You are more than welcome to create your own smartphone platform (software/hardware/App Store/SDK). Without Apple you'd be sporting a new Nokia 27535 with no apps except that awesome snake game.
Wow...just wow...all hail our corporate overlords I guess?
Wow. So you didn't read a single word either of us typed. A typical childish response from you, par for the course. Hail our corporate overlords? More like, it's useful to use things called logic and reason, once in a while, which you seem utterly incapable of. I'll defend Apple's decisions when they seem to be rooted in logic and what's best for most consumers, and I'll attack them when that's not the case. It's a nuance you don't seem to understand, as are all your kneejerk attacks without a thought as to the decision making behind what you shit on. You have no fucking understanding of how software works, what you "own", and what you're entitled to, yet you want to attack those who do have a basic understanding of what, and accuse them of being sycophants.
I don't think anyone here is claiming they should get to keep the software version they have (or downgrade) and get all the functionality the current version has. What people are objecting to is the idea that Apple should be able to update the software on your phone without your consent. Where in the EULA does it say that?!? From what I can tell all the EULA says is Apple at its discretion may make updates to the software and those updates may not include all features that newer devices get.
Of course if you have a device eligible for newer software and you choose not to update Apple would not be responsible if something went wrong or stopped working. A good example is when Apple messed up FaceTime but never sent a software update to devices running iOS 6 that were iOS 7 eligible. If those people wanted to use FaceTime again they had to update to iOS 7. But again that's completely different than updating your software on your device without your consent.
No it's called fucking BS. Show me where in Apple's EULA for iOS they have the right to update the software on your device without your consent. It's my phone, if I don't want to update the software Apple can't force me.
Talk about childish responses...
No one here is saying they own the software or have the right to modify it. But Apple owning the software doesn't mean they have the legal right to put it on your phone without your consent. And it's a stupid argument anyway because it's not something Apple has done or will ever do. The closest they came to it was automatically downloading the installer file to people's devices. But they stopped doing that with iOS 8.
Ownership and freedom are all well and good. But updates are the price of security, and judging from android I'm glad Apple has a walled garden.
No it's called fucking BS. Show me where in Apple's EULA for iOS they have the right to update the software on your device without your consent. It's my phone, if I don't want to update the software Apple can't force me.
And what’s to stop them once you’re online? What legal recourse would you have?
By clicking Agree (prior to each and every update) you do consent to it.
No iOS update gets installed without your permission.
By clicking Agree you do consent to it.
Agree to what? Have you found any hint that it (meaning Apple can force upgrade you) is there?
And I do believe that courts have generally found EULAs that are not presented to the user until after purchase as not enforceable. Conditions presented to the purchaser after purchase are generally not valid.
So, no, I don't think you do/did agree to it.
Agree to what? Have you found any hint that it (meaning Apple can force upgrade you) is there?
And I do believe that courts have generally found EULAs that are not presented to the user until after purchase as not enforceable. Conditions presented to the purchaser after purchase are generally not valid.
So, no, I don't think you do/did agree to it.
No update gets installed without your permission.
Prior to each update, you are presented with terms and conditions to which you have the choice of agreeing.
No update gets installed without your permission.
Prior to each update, you are presented with terms and conditions to which you have the choice of agreeing.
Precisely! That is my point. You need to read the previous replies to see what the discussion was about. Some were claiming Apple should force upgrade your phone to the latest iOS.