Apple stops signing iOS 8.3 just one week after 8.4 release

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  • Reply 61 of 105
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,821member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by D.J. Adequate View Post



    They do have the right to do what they just did: pull support from an older version. They could go even further and block old versions from accessing cellular and Internet services. I don't think they would do so, but if a bad enough exploit existed they could. So much of the iPhone's functionality lives on the network now.

     

     

    No, they couldn't go and disable older versions from accessing the internet or cell networks.   They sold the phone for a particular purpose and they cannot disable it from that purpose.   The UCC (used by most states) and other consumer protection laws prohibit that sort of thing.

     

    Edit:  I am not saying that they don't have a right to disallow installing older versions of iOS.  Just that they cannot disable an older version of iOS already installed on my phone from accessing the cell network or internet.

  • Reply 62 of 105
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chadbag View Post

     



    Agree to what?  Have you found any hint that it (meaning Apple can force upgrade you) is there?

     

    And I do believe that courts have generally found EULAs that are not presented to the user until after purchase as not enforceable.  Conditions presented to the purchaser after purchase are generally not valid.  

     

    So, no, I don't think you do/did agree to it.


     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chadbag View Post

     



    Precisely!   That is my point.    You need to read the previous replies to see what the discussion was about.  Some were claiming Apple should force upgrade your phone to the latest iOS.


     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by D.J. Adequate View Post



    They do have the right to do what they just did: pull support from an older version. They could go even further and block old versions from accessing cellular and Internet services. I don't think they would do so, but if a bad enough exploit existed they could. So much of the iPhone's functionality lives on the network now.

     

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chadbag View Post

     



    Precisely!   That is my point.    You need to read the previous replies to see what the discussion was about.  Some were claiming Apple should force upgrade your phone to the latest iOS.


     

    You mean (something like) this:

     

    "They do have the right to do what they just did: pull support from an older version. They could go even further and block old versions from accessing cellular and Internet services. I don't think they would do so, but if a bad enough exploit existed they could. So much of the iPhone's functionality lives on the network now."

     

    ?I could see a situation where that's legit. 

     

  • Reply 63 of 105
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,821member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by D.J. Adequate View Post



    Ownership and freedom are all well and good. But updates are the price of security, and judging from android I'm glad Apple has a walled garden.

     

    No one is arguing against the walled garden.

  • Reply 64 of 105
    theothergeofftheothergeoff Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post







    Wow...just wow...all hail our corporate overlords I guess?



    when it comes to things like phones, radios, and other things that have to just work without f*cking up other peoples' devices ability to work, yeah, I sort of agree with the stance of the overlords.

     

    And there is no reason why you can't keep a copy of your SW image, and reinstall it.  It may be damn near impossible, but you could do it.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    No it's called fucking BS. Show me where in Apple's EULA for iOS they have the right to update the software on your device without your consent. It's my phone, if I don't want to update the software Apple can't force me.

     

    If you're running 8.3 (like my wife is), it's working just fine today.  No bricking the phone, no jackbooted thugs on our doorstep with a lightning connector and an 8.4 upgrade dongle.   Your argument is a red herring.  

     

    and no one at Apple is forcing you to upgrade to 8.3... you just can't go from where you're at to 8.3 anymore.   Apple supports 8.3, in the sense you can walk in and ask for support at a genius bar.   they just don't distribute it anymore.

  • Reply 65 of 105
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    chadbag wrote: »
    No, they couldn't go and disable older versions from accessing the internet or cell networks.   They sold the phone for a particular purpose and they cannot disable it from that purpose.   The UCC (used by most states) and other consumer protection laws prohibit that sort of thing.

    Edit:  I am not saying that they don't have a right to disallow installing older versions of iOS.  Just that they cannot disable an older version of iOS already installed on my phone from accessing the cell network or internet.

    I agree on the cell network point, though.
  • Reply 66 of 105
    chadbag wrote: »

    Edit:  I am not saying that they don't have a right to disallow installing older versions of iOS.  Just that they cannot disable an older version of iOS already installed on my phone from accessing the cell network or internet.

    I have an old in-smart phone that is 5 years old. ATT no longer allows it to connect, and soon all carriers will retire non-modern phones. Requiring a fully patched system to access network resources is not unreasonable. And there are services that used to work with an IOS 4 that don't any more. Even though they did when I bought the phone.

    I guess all I'm really trying to say is, it's complicated. And I understand Apple's desire to get everyone updating quickly.
  • Reply 67 of 105
    kewliokewlio Posts: 8member
    "
    They have every right to change it, automatically, over the air, without your consent.

    They choose to allow you more freedom than you're entitled, by continuing to make Automatic Updates a toggle. I would just as soon have them remove that and force all updates upon qualifying users.
    "

    Agree, even IF there are bugs and slow-downs, or even - yes - the device is "bricked" by the update. Users shouldn't have the option to decide, even to wait for reports to come in of issues, everyone should be updated, forcibly if you will. This will greatly simplify Apple's load in quashing these bugs.

    Hey just imagine how much time and money is spent by MicroSoft supporting all the different versions of Windows, on all the different hardware platforms. Ridiculously huge effort. Compared to Apple with only their own hardware to debug with. Yes MS seem to have it under control I'll grant that, but it must cost a lot. Much more practical, much smarter, much cheaper to do what Apple does, and go further and move to forced updates.

    Just one thought comes to mind - if this means iOS 8.4 for *everyone*, then that means making it work in iPhone4 - even on iPhone 3? That would be hard I think. I experienced iOS7 on my iPhone4 (not S) and it was so slow (pretty, but slow) that I had to get a new phone.
  • Reply 68 of 105
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pmz View Post

     

    The entire idea of downgrading needs to be wiped out. I like the direction Apple is going with iOS, finally bringing automatic overnight updates with iOS 9.

     

    They really need to go further with it, and prevent any sort of opting out...updates need to be mandatory. 

     

    There is not one legitimate reason to downgrade a public Apple OS.


    Heavy battery drain and the removal of Home Sharing music on your own devices on your own network is more than enough reason to downgrade back to 8.3.  So your comment has no validity to it.  If something worked before and suddenly breaks with new software, most people downgrade.  Apple now finally admits to their mistake and they are restoring the music Home Sharing back with iOS 9, but now people have to wait months for that?  No thanks.  My iPhone 6 Plus and iPad Air work better with 8.3.

  • Reply 69 of 105
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

     

    Heavy battery drain and the removal of Home Sharing music on your own devices on your own network is more than enough reason to downgrade back to 8.3.  So your comment has no validity to it.  If something worked before and suddenly breaks with new software, most people downgrade.  Apple now finally admits to their mistake and they are restoring the music Home Sharing back with iOS 9, but now people have to wait months for that?  No thanks.  My iPhone 6 Plus and iPad Air work better with 8.3.


     

    So I'm not the only one who's seen battery life go to absolute crap on 8.4? My iPhone, in under 4 hours of actual use, dropped 58% of it's battery. And only one six minute call was involved. It's an embarassment.

  • Reply 70 of 105
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

     

     

    The "its my device" argument is such horse-shit. No, Apple does not have an obligation to facilitate every single thing you'd want to do in terms of modifying the software. Even with other manufacturers, there's limitations, as it should be. It's as braindead as claiming that you should be able to easily change all the icons because it's "your device", or Apple should make a one tap jailbreak, or you should be able to install other OSes on an iPhone easily, or give you can option to have 10 icons per row, etc etc. Yes, it's your device, but Apple has a right to code their software however they damn well see fit. Allowing downgrades would cause more problems and complications than anything else, and I fail to see even one legitimate reason as to why a consumer would want to downgrade, except speed, and that only applies on major version changes, not 8.4 to 8.3. And no one is putting a gun to your head to upgrade in the first place. 


    Maybe you should read what pmz says because he believes the user has no right to decide what OS they run, and you apparently agree with him claiming "it's my device" is horse-shit.  Guess what?  I decide what OS I choose to run on my Mac and my iOS devices.  If I choose to run an OS that is more stable, faster and more features, than I am NOT upgrading, and Apple cannot force that.  I run 10.4 Tiger on my QuickSilver G4 because it is faster and more stable than Leopard.  I downgraded back to 8.3 because of excessive battery drain and the removal of music Home Sharing on my iOS devices.  So when Apple removes features from their OS, hell yes I am downgrading.

     

    Your argument is stupid and braindead.  So if a prior OS runs faster, you are okay with downgrading, but for any other reason, you think people should be forced to upgrade?  Guess what?  8.4 is a dogshit upgrade that removed features and caused more problems with battery drain.  So if they code their software like shit, which they do on occasion, many will downgrade, regardless of your misguided opinion, and pmz's moronic belief that users have no right to decide what OS should be installed on their devices.  Photos for OS X is complete crap and many are sticking with iPhoto and Aperture, which both have more features and more stability.  Apple cannot force me to use Photos.

  • Reply 71 of 105
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

     

    So I'm not the only one who's seen battery life go to absolute crap on 8.4? My iPhone, in under 4 hours of actual use, dropped 58% of it's battery. And only one six minute call was involved. It's an embarassment.


    Oh hell yes!  Both my iPad Air and iPhone 6 Plus exhibited faster battery drain with regular use.  None of that Apple Music crap either.  Email and phone calls, just as before, drained the battery faster.

  • Reply 72 of 105
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post



    By clicking Agree (prior to each and every update) you do consent to it.



    No iOS update gets installed without your permission.

     

    Correct. Downloaded, but not installed.

    It's more of this faux outrage from Android users who pretend to know what they're talking about.

  • Reply 73 of 105
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

     

    Oh hell yes!  Both my iPad Air and iPhone 6 Plus exhibited faster battery drain with regular use.  None of that Apple Music crap either.  Email and phone calls, just as before, drained the battery faster.


     

    Yep. My cell reception is poorer than before as well. Since installing 8.4 I'm having to charge my phone by around five in the afternoon now, which will be great for the battery life. Of course when this really comes back to bite me I'll no longer be in warranty.

     

    It doesn't "just work" anymore. One thing I noticed tonight is how people now say "well why don't you restore?"

     

    That's the exact same thing Apple fans used to slam Windows users over, how they had to reinstall periodically if weird things started happening. And now, iOS especially, is the exact same way.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

     

     

    Correct. Downloaded, but not installed.

    It's more of this faux outrage from Android users who pretend to know what they're talking about.




    The argument in this thread is the claim Apple should force upgrades, removing the option to approve it.

  • Reply 74 of 105
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

     

    Oh hell yes!  Both my iPad Air and iPhone 6 Plus exhibited faster battery drain with regular use.  None of that Apple Music crap either.  Email and phone calls, just as before, drained the battery faster.


     

    All I hear is blah blah blah, like the teacher in Charlie Brown..

    Are you a special unique snow flake? Seems like it since I hear all those things from you I don'T hear from anyone else. Time to return your Iphone you obviously hate and go Android native, buy a Sony or Panasonic, none of this Samsung or LG popular mass market stuff.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by debohun View Post

     

    So how long have you been working for the Apple PR department?


     

    Probably less time than you the Samsung astroturfing department.

  • Reply 75 of 105
    Wow, so I paid for it but can't choose what to run on it? You know what, Apple does NOT know best. They are a company, with both smart and extremely stupid people working for them. I paid for the device, I will choose what I do with it. If I want to code/design my own ASIC and run Windows 10 on my iPhone, that is my right. Apple does not own me.

    Agent 84 reporting - there is a disturbance in the field. One of our minions has broken out of "control" mode and his mouth is running uncontained> Permission requested to deactivate!
  • Reply 76 of 105
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member

    I see this as a good thing. Unlike Android, where the majority of phones and devices are still running ancient, obsolete OS versions, and everything is a complete mess, it is better for Apple and for Apple users to all be on the same page, to all be running the latest OS update, as long as the devices that they are using supports it. And iOS 9 will even support an old device like the iPad 2, so there's really very few excuses to not be running the latest version of iOS.

     

    This forces developers to be up to date with their apps and software, and I believe that it makes any potential problems or bugs easier to deal with, since almost everybody will be using the same OS version.

     

    This might be an issue for jailbreakers, but I don't give a crap about jailbreakers.:smokey: 

  • Reply 77 of 105
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    pmz wrote: »
    The entire idea of downgrading needs to be wiped out. I like the direction Apple is going with iOS, finally bringing automatic overnight updates with iOS 9.

    They really need to go further with it, and prevent any sort of opting out...updates need to be mandatory. 

    There is not one legitimate reason to downgrade a public Apple OS.
    Evidently you've never seen performance bottom out as part of a software upgrade. It happens.
  • Reply 78 of 105

    Yes my iphone didnt last long yesterday i updated 2 days ago and found out that my battery did not last long 

    I have no possability to charge the battery

    Also what if i have to reach someone in case of an emergency and my battery had run out of time APPLE did NOT said that that was the case when i updated my iphone if they had mention it i would of course not have updated my device.

     

    How do you respond to that pmz

     

    What if someone have say diabetes and need to contact emergency and found out that the battery is dead and have no change to charge it 

     

    Also to all in here i OWN my device have paid alot of cash for it alot more then USA citizens due to currency and taxes and other crap

     

    If i want to downgrade it should be possible i also own many computers and if i want to install an OS on those i can choose whech ever i want as long as the hardware accept it (i cant upgrade my VERY expensive Mac Pro less then 8 years old to a newer OS then Lion) Atleast i bought it second hand but if i had bought it NEW i would have gone mad

  • Reply 79 of 105
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

     

    You are quite possibly one of the most narrow-minded zealots I have seen. And I eagerly await your future "attack" of Apple, which will probably be the literary equivalent of throwing a piece of uncooked elbow macaroni at a 747. :rolleyes:

     

    So I'm not the only one who's seen battery life go to absolute crap on 8.4? My iPhone, in under 4 hours of actual use, dropped 58% of it's battery. And only one six minute call was involved. It's an embarassment.


    Yes this is my final day as iphone user now i swich to android as i need to atleast be able to contact my family every day so i need a phone with battery life over 24 hours with normal using that is NOT the case with iOS 8.4 and i sincerely hope that no human being is gonna die just becuase they upgraded to iOS 8.4 and NOT got have the change to downgrade to iOS 8.3 just so they could have LONGER battery time

  • Reply 80 of 105
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pmz View Post

     



    You do not own anything but the brick that you purchased. Every single function piece of software on the device belongs to Apple and is subject to their will and whim. 

     

    I blame the jailbreak community for giving the wrong impression and intentionally blurring the lines between owning the brick you bought at the store and owning the software installed on it.

     

    If you choose to hack the device, and run whatever POS you want...that is your right.

     

    If you choose to run Apple-sanctioned software, you have no rights to it whatsoever.


     

    You are wrong.  Let's try a little thought experiment.  Apple releases a forced iOS update that deliberately bricks every single iOS product on the planet and says they don't want to be in that business anymore.  Most people, excepting yourself of course, would readily see that no court would rule in Apple's favour in the resulting class action.

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