Maybe a distinction is in internet bandwidth. The 100 MB of on-line storage can be much more useful to those with broadband internet connection. So between the two groups, those with phone modems may have a higher percentage of people dissatisfied with the .Mac service. Many may just use email and icards now. It might be nice if Apple gave them this option for $15 or $20 a year.
I will be going with .Mac for this first year at least. Apple will be adding new features to it, they say. I have often thought about antivirus software, but never felt strong enough to actually buy it. Now I'll get it. With McAfee signed up by Apple, they will no doubt put more effort into the Mac version now, and it may evenutally evolve into automatic virus updates on-line, like one of their PC antivirus services. What I am looking forward to is trying daily automatic backups of certain items, and set it to run at 1 AM. I hope this is possible, if not now then maybe later.
What apple needs is to keep the e-mail free or allow users to get two e-mails with one account
REASON: Couple (never had computer) gets a new Macintosh and the people at the Apple Store have gotten them to buy a .Mac account. So they have to share an e-mail address? Bad bombing! Give two e-mail address for an option to split e-mail space. makes sense? I think so
OR
Give out free 5MB e-mail this must cost them little if they were able to be doing it for two years and show little hurt from it. AND if people want the extra features of .Mac, this revenue will easily pay for the free accounts.... hmmmm?
OFFERS There better be some cool offers from Apple, and also I expect Apple to either drop costs or add features. These are services that are in one place and simplified by apple, trying to find these things other places would be a hassle.
Maybe have a .Mac users night at Apple Store for people to buy discounted software?
Seems like this is the beginning of something that could be good.
ALSO: The iSync will be a good way to get those big wigs who say "A work machine should not have gum drops as button, i want corners!"
**** THEm, and **** The windows users;
Bottom line: Increase features or lower the price, along with that offer free e-mail either along with accounts or without
my theory is that this is a bit of a ruse. i figure that apple is willing to subsidize the cost of these services o a certain extent for each os 9 & os x system. this leaves apple with 3 major problems.
1) users with multiple accounts - currently there are probably tens of thousands of itools users with multiple accounts.
2) non-mac users with accounts - why should apple subsidize other platforms?
3) systems can easily last 5 years or more - how does one calculate the subsidy on systems with fluctuating lifespans for services that have recurring costs that also fluctuate?
to solve these problems, you must:
1) find a way clean out the squatters without closing down the system completely.
2) create a system to identify valid users for subsidy.
3) cap the subsidy with a time limit.
my guess is that the first volley in the implementation. by setting a non-subsidized price, the squatters will either become paid members or go away. when this program begins (about the same time as the release as jaguar), it would be easy to track all registered users of jaguar and offer them a discount (subsidy). my guess the discount would be ~50% for a 3 year period.
<strong>The way that Apple announced .Mac and the way that Apple cancelled iTools, without any forewarning, just about guarantees a consumer backlash.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Your iTools account is no longer free as of Sept. 30 (over 2 months away). There's your forewarning...
It's $49 if you already have an account. If you use it now, it's probably useful. If you don't mind paying for useful things then $49 to try it out isn't bad. If you don't find it useful, then you probably won't miss it.
AH well. It'll be el cheapo education cost of the cd prices for me from now on. That or pirate it (OH NO!! HERE COMES ANOTHER ATTACK OF PPL SAYING I SHOULDNT PIRATE APPLE'S OS!). SOrry folks, I've spent thousands on APple hardware and software.
[quote]"Now that we're out of the 'everything is free' mode, we can invest in developing great new things," Jobs said. "It's a good deal."<hr></blockquote>
Other free things:
iTunes
iPhoto
iMovie
Next in line?
It's not an 'everything is free' mode, Steve, it's a 'we like to have choices' thing. We bought Macs and got mac.com e-mail addresses with them. Now that you didn't see in the future well enough to realize the weight of success you now take them away unless you pay $100 (and it's $100, $49 gets me to next year, but it's a $100 service).
All I want is e-mail. I never had more than 1 or 1 MB on my iDisk (I had only 1) and I used the e-mail address for 3-4 e-mails a day.
I have two choices: lose the e-mail or pay $100 for a service not worth even $40.
I'd be glad to pay $10/year or $15/year for a 15MB e-mail account. It's not about free, it's about acting with a modicum of fairness to your loyal users.
<strong>AH well. It'll be el cheapo education cost of the cd prices for me from now on. That or pirate it (OH NO!! HERE COMES ANOTHER ATTACK OF PPL SAYING I SHOULDNT PIRATE APPLE'S OS!). SOrry folks, I've spent thousands on APple hardware and software.</strong><hr></blockquote>
i spent thousands of dollars on my car, should i be allowed to steal tires if no one will give them to me? it is your choice to pirate or not. you don't have to resort to weak rationalizations to justify it. just swallow hard admit to yourself that you are a thief and do it.
<strong>AH well. It'll be el cheapo education cost of the cd prices for me from now on. That or pirate it (OH NO!! HERE COMES ANOTHER ATTACK OF PPL SAYING I SHOULDNT PIRATE APPLE'S OS!). SOrry folks, I've spent thousands on APple hardware and software.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I believe most of their age group is younger and there are so many posts of the dissatisfaction with all this crap...
Hey kids, stop borrowing money from Mom and Dad...get a job. Realize that NOTHING COMES FOR FREE IN THE REAL WORLD.
THE INTERNET ISN'T FREE ANYMORE EITHER.
Ok. Don't like it? MOVE ON. Go to another OS or computer. Go to Linux and download betas and shit and become another basement dwelling, pimple nosed jack off.
I think groverat pointed out a big reason why so many people are upset over .Mac fees. Many of us only use the eamil account, and maybe iCards once in a while. I hope Apple will consider a low cost service that only includes these two features of .Mac. I am in this camp, but I've decided to try .Mac for one year, to see what other benefits I might get from it. Not much of a gamble at $49.95.
I've had another thought about why .Mac is a good move for both Apple an Mac users. Many companies have offered free benefits for this or that particualr service. What seems to happen in an economic down turn is that many free services are discontinued in an effort to cut costs and stay profitable. When these services pay their own way, they are usually kept going through bad times. iTools was nice, but I would rather see .Mac for a fee than iTools cut back or eliminated so Apple can stay profitable. This was not mentioned, but it could have been a reality if the economy does not improve soon. The keynote focused on the fee as a way to improve the tools, but just keeping the tools may be an unspoken part of it.
Another thing mentioned was free Apple applications like iTunes, iMovie, and so on. Will they no longer be free someday? Nobody knows for sure, but I believe these are in a different category from the .Mac/iTools issue. The latter is a service that needs a constant supply of cash to keep running. If there is nothing coming in from it, it is very hard to justify in really bad times. On the otherhand, free Apple applications take cash to develope and update, but very little cash just to distribute with the OS. In hard times, Apple could cut back on development, but continue distributing these free applications. Also, they do more to attract new customers than say a free email account. They are Mac only and a reason to switch. They're safe IMHO.
<strong>If you're a student, there's nothing better than getting a student ADC membership. You get all OS updates in the mail for $99/year in addition to other possibly useful things.
People can bitch about Jaguar's pricing all they want, but that doesn't change the fact that they were naive to think it was going to be anything other than full retail. I was wrong too...I thought full retail was going to be bumped back down to $99. I was incorrect.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't forget that with ADC you get a "one time ever student developer discount". Saving $800 on a Ti is definately a major discount over the usual education prices, let alone standard retail.
However, normal ADC $500 or $3500 is a separate story. Jury's out...
Don't forget that with ADC you get a "one time ever student developer discount". Saving $800 on a Ti is definately a major discount over the usual education prices, let alone standard retail.
However, normal ADC $500 or $3500 is a separate story. Jury's out...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you sure about this? If it's true, I'll go for it in a second. I've got something of murbot-itis, having to get the latest and greatest. Unfortunately, I can't afford it. Quite a problem. And, yes, it seems many of those who are complaining are of the younger age group. Too bad, they don't know what they are missing...
For God's sake, Artman, it's not about it being free for life. Read that again, please.
I didn't hear any of you "nothing is free" apologists complaining when Apple was serving all this stuff up for free. But now when daddy Jobs removes the choice you have to justify it in your mind so everyone who doesn't say it's a great idea is suddenly a jobless 14-year-old looking for freebies.
Here's the deal:
You've got two choices right now: Buy nothing or Buy it all.
What you fail to see is that what Apple is currently offering for $100/year is barely worth $40/year. And it's because of that that there won't be a tiered system, because people would see how much of a shaft $100/year is. $50 is more tolerable, obviously, and at that price I could understand subscribing if you recognize that you're still overpaying in the hopes that it improves with time.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but:
- iBackup doesn't even let you use it to backup to local media (CD-RW/DVD-R) unless you have a .Mac subscription. And even past that is not trustworthy because Apple doesn't stand behind the integrity of the process. Anyone with a brain wouldn't trust iDisk backup with all the "Apple Computer is not responsible for..." language in there.
- Virex is a terrible app and essentially useless on OSX.
- You have very little flexibility in how you use your webspace and hidden bandwidth limits on your 100MB iDisk.
- iCards... you've got to be kidding me.
- The e-mail is definitely very good.
The only reason Apple wouldn't (won't) have offered a tiered system (they KNEW this would piss everyone off) is because they need to hide how little value there is in the .mac subscription plan.
They are counting on loyalists with their multi-shaded lenses to sell this to the malcontents and, as usual, the loyalists will deliver.
Granted, people might actually feel that $100/year for an e-mail address and some webspace is a good value, fine for them. But just because some feel that way doesn't mean all those who don't are penny-pinching whiners or jobless teenagers.
The very fact that you can add e-mail only accounts for $10 indicates that it IS financially feasible to have $10/year e-mail only accounts standing alone. I'll probably end up piggy-backing [email protected] off someone's full membership, because I'm willing to pay, just not willing to get shafted.
But right now .mac isn't offering enough to justify $100/year so they are protecting it. And that is pathetic.
Thing is, grover (and all you nay-sayers), that .Mac bodes well for other types of services. I'm sure that part of the positive sentiment is related to the hope ( knowledge??) that .Mac is more than what is there right now. Apple has a great infrastructure in place for some amazing services; many of which were showcased at MWNY. Just wait and see what happens. I've got great faith (perhaps, misplaced faith) in Apple. They have a vision, and those of us who are positive are banking on that vision.
Comments
I will be going with .Mac for this first year at least. Apple will be adding new features to it, they say. I have often thought about antivirus software, but never felt strong enough to actually buy it. Now I'll get it. With McAfee signed up by Apple, they will no doubt put more effort into the Mac version now, and it may evenutally evolve into automatic virus updates on-line, like one of their PC antivirus services. What I am looking forward to is trying daily automatic backups of certain items, and set it to run at 1 AM. I hope this is possible, if not now then maybe later.
REASON: Couple (never had computer) gets a new Macintosh and the people at the Apple Store have gotten them to buy a .Mac account. So they have to share an e-mail address? Bad bombing! Give two e-mail address for an option to split e-mail space. makes sense? I think so
OR
Give out free 5MB e-mail this must cost them little if they were able to be doing it for two years and show little hurt from it. AND if people want the extra features of .Mac, this revenue will easily pay for the free accounts.... hmmmm?
OFFERS There better be some cool offers from Apple, and also I expect Apple to either drop costs or add features. These are services that are in one place and simplified by apple, trying to find these things other places would be a hassle.
Maybe have a .Mac users night at Apple Store for people to buy discounted software?
Seems like this is the beginning of something that could be good.
ALSO: The iSync will be a good way to get those big wigs who say "A work machine should not have gum drops as button, i want corners!"
**** THEm, and **** The windows users;
Bottom line: Increase features or lower the price, along with that offer free e-mail either along with accounts or without
1) users with multiple accounts - currently there are probably tens of thousands of itools users with multiple accounts.
2) non-mac users with accounts - why should apple subsidize other platforms?
3) systems can easily last 5 years or more - how does one calculate the subsidy on systems with fluctuating lifespans for services that have recurring costs that also fluctuate?
to solve these problems, you must:
1) find a way clean out the squatters without closing down the system completely.
2) create a system to identify valid users for subsidy.
3) cap the subsidy with a time limit.
my guess is that the first volley in the implementation. by setting a non-subsidized price, the squatters will either become paid members or go away. when this program begins (about the same time as the release as jaguar), it would be easy to track all registered users of jaguar and offer them a discount (subsidy). my guess the discount would be ~50% for a 3 year period.
<strong>The way that Apple announced .Mac and the way that Apple cancelled iTools, without any forewarning, just about guarantees a consumer backlash.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Your iTools account is no longer free as of Sept. 30 (over 2 months away). There's your forewarning...
It's $49 if you already have an account. If you use it now, it's probably useful. If you don't mind paying for useful things then $49 to try it out isn't bad. If you don't find it useful, then you probably won't miss it.
Or something like that.
Other free things:
iTunes
iPhoto
iMovie
Next in line?
It's not an 'everything is free' mode, Steve, it's a 'we like to have choices' thing. We bought Macs and got mac.com e-mail addresses with them. Now that you didn't see in the future well enough to realize the weight of success you now take them away unless you pay $100 (and it's $100, $49 gets me to next year, but it's a $100 service).
All I want is e-mail. I never had more than 1 or 1 MB on my iDisk (I had only 1) and I used the e-mail address for 3-4 e-mails a day.
I have two choices: lose the e-mail or pay $100 for a service not worth even $40.
I'd be glad to pay $10/year or $15/year for a 15MB e-mail account. It's not about free, it's about acting with a modicum of fairness to your loyal users.
<strong>AH well. It'll be el cheapo education cost of the cd prices for me from now on.
i spent thousands of dollars on my car, should i be allowed to steal tires if no one will give them to me? it is your choice to pirate or not. you don't have to resort to weak rationalizations to justify it. just swallow hard admit to yourself that you are a thief and do it.
See, Apple makes everything and they are responsible for all of their products that carry the Apple Logo...few car makers maker their own tires
<strong>AH well. It'll be el cheapo education cost of the cd prices for me from now on.
My God, Tiger. You're turning into <a href="http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/"; target="_blank">JeffK</a>.
:eek:
Amen.
I'm a thief.
I believe most of their age group is younger and there are so many posts of the dissatisfaction with all this crap...
Hey kids, stop borrowing money from Mom and Dad...get a job. Realize that NOTHING COMES FOR FREE IN THE REAL WORLD.
THE INTERNET ISN'T FREE ANYMORE EITHER.
Ok. Don't like it? MOVE ON. Go to another OS or computer. Go to Linux and download betas and shit and become another basement dwelling, pimple nosed jack off.
Whatever...
I've had another thought about why .Mac is a good move for both Apple an Mac users. Many companies have offered free benefits for this or that particualr service. What seems to happen in an economic down turn is that many free services are discontinued in an effort to cut costs and stay profitable. When these services pay their own way, they are usually kept going through bad times. iTools was nice, but I would rather see .Mac for a fee than iTools cut back or eliminated so Apple can stay profitable. This was not mentioned, but it could have been a reality if the economy does not improve soon. The keynote focused on the fee as a way to improve the tools, but just keeping the tools may be an unspoken part of it.
Another thing mentioned was free Apple applications like iTunes, iMovie, and so on. Will they no longer be free someday? Nobody knows for sure, but I believe these are in a different category from the .Mac/iTools issue. The latter is a service that needs a constant supply of cash to keep running. If there is nothing coming in from it, it is very hard to justify in really bad times. On the otherhand, free Apple applications take cash to develope and update, but very little cash just to distribute with the OS. In hard times, Apple could cut back on development, but continue distributing these free applications. Also, they do more to attract new customers than say a free email account. They are Mac only and a reason to switch. They're safe IMHO.
[ 07-20-2002: Message edited by: snoopy ]</p>
<strong>If you're a student, there's nothing better than getting a student ADC membership. You get all OS updates in the mail for $99/year in addition to other possibly useful things.
People can bitch about Jaguar's pricing all they want, but that doesn't change the fact that they were naive to think it was going to be anything other than full retail. I was wrong too...I thought full retail was going to be bumped back down to $99. I was incorrect.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't forget that with ADC you get a "one time ever student developer discount". Saving $800 on a Ti is definately a major discount over the usual education prices, let alone standard retail.
However, normal ADC $500 or $3500 is a separate story. Jury's out...
<strong>
Don't forget that with ADC you get a "one time ever student developer discount". Saving $800 on a Ti is definately a major discount over the usual education prices, let alone standard retail.
However, normal ADC $500 or $3500 is a separate story. Jury's out...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you sure about this? If it's true, I'll go for it in a second. I've got something of murbot-itis, having to get the latest and greatest. Unfortunately, I can't afford it.
I didn't hear any of you "nothing is free" apologists complaining when Apple was serving all this stuff up for free. But now when daddy Jobs removes the choice you have to justify it in your mind so everyone who doesn't say it's a great idea is suddenly a jobless 14-year-old looking for freebies.
Here's the deal:
You've got two choices right now: Buy nothing or Buy it all.
What you fail to see is that what Apple is currently offering for $100/year is barely worth $40/year. And it's because of that that there won't be a tiered system, because people would see how much of a shaft $100/year is. $50 is more tolerable, obviously, and at that price I could understand subscribing if you recognize that you're still overpaying in the hopes that it improves with time.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but:
- iBackup doesn't even let you use it to backup to local media (CD-RW/DVD-R) unless you have a .Mac subscription. And even past that is not trustworthy because Apple doesn't stand behind the integrity of the process. Anyone with a brain wouldn't trust iDisk backup with all the "Apple Computer is not responsible for..." language in there.
- Virex is a terrible app and essentially useless on OSX.
- You have very little flexibility in how you use your webspace and hidden bandwidth limits on your 100MB iDisk.
- iCards... you've got to be kidding me.
- The e-mail is definitely very good.
The only reason Apple wouldn't (won't) have offered a tiered system (they KNEW this would piss everyone off) is because they need to hide how little value there is in the .mac subscription plan.
They are counting on loyalists with their multi-shaded lenses to sell this to the malcontents and, as usual, the loyalists will deliver.
Granted, people might actually feel that $100/year for an e-mail address and some webspace is a good value, fine for them. But just because some feel that way doesn't mean all those who don't are penny-pinching whiners or jobless teenagers.
The very fact that you can add e-mail only accounts for $10 indicates that it IS financially feasible to have $10/year e-mail only accounts standing alone. I'll probably end up piggy-backing [email protected] off someone's full membership, because I'm willing to pay, just not willing to get shafted.
But right now .mac isn't offering enough to justify $100/year so they are protecting it. And that is pathetic.