I know we are headed down a rat hole with this, but... it was not standard practice, it was law.
True. Should not have gone there but the minor point I was trying to make was that if you think you've been wronged by the status quo you may as well ask the question. Doing nothing gets a nil result.
I dropped my wife's 4s (always best to drop somebody else's phone, right?) exactly once and the screen got a single hairline crack across the face in a roughly 18 inch fall onto asphalt (I was shocked).
AppleCare replaced it with a phone that was obviously not brand new, but it was in better cosmetic condition than the one I had. Seriously, who expects new devices on warranty coverage? Clean devices in good repair, sure. But not new. No reasonable person who has ever read the terms of any warranty plan can think that new replacements are normal.
This is a frikken joke, surely. You do not have to be a lawyer to see not only does this not have any legs, but it doesn't even have a body. What is the suit arguing, that Apple should supply brand new iPhones every time a serial iPhone abuser smashes it, when the customer paid for and got exactly what they paid for which was a refurbished to new equivalent phone. So to win this case the customer would have to prove that the phone they received was so far below refurbished standard that it was unsatisfactory, but then they'd need the phone as it was, which is impossible now, then they'd need to establish the criteria that would have to fail to miss the cut.
If Apple said they'd supply a brand new out of the box iPhone every time a user abused their screen then they charge $500 replacement cost or thereabouts.
According to our Apple Business Representative, refurbished means that some of the internals have been replaced from returned devices but any of the parts that you touch are brand new. You will never see a scratch or blemish on a refurbished iPhone.
Depends.
There are 3 classes of refurbished items. A, B, and C.
Only A class refurbished devices is like a brand new.
The only replacement I've had was my iPad Air 2 which developed false touch issues and was replaced under the standard warranty rather than AppleCare.
I booked a genius appointment, took it in, had diagnostics run on it and walked out less than 10 minutes later with a replacement which I'm pretty sure was a refurb as it came out of a brown box, but if I hadn't seen the box it came out of there is no way on earth I'd be able to tell... and as my original iPad was a pre-order the replacement is almost certainly newer than the one that had issues and frankly I couldn't be happier with the service and the replacement item.
I really don't see how this case has a leg to stand on - that you might get refurbished replacements is clearly stated in the AppleCare terms and conditions and the replacement is covered by the remaining time on the AppleCare warranty anyway so if you do somehow get a flakey replacement as long as Apple are willing to replace that too then I can't see the problem... Refurb items are sold as being in "as new" condition but because they aren't a first sale item they just aren't allowed to be sold and represented as being new - and lets face it, It's not as if new iPhones never come out of the box with problems so to me a refurb is going to be equally as reliable as a new item out of the box.
not for nothing, but what do you expect....you pay 99 dollars, and then 79 dollars to replace what could be a 128GB iPhone Plus model which is almost 1000 dollars. If Apple gave BRAND NEW phones for everything, they would have to raise the price of AppleCare substantially. As someone who worked as an FRS and opened up MANY MANY MANY phones repaired outside of Apple (Asurion I'm looking at you), which we basically called Franken-phones, because they were assembled with so many parts from different phones. In our phones, that we give out for AppleCare , the screen, & battery is ALWAYS NEW, as is the body. The only thing that may be recycled is the AX chipset inside, and only after it's been tested properly. The phones we give people are, IMO, more reliable than the new ones, as someone personally goes over them very thoroughly, unlike the ones you get 'brand new'. Anyway, just my opinion.
I can never distinguish a refurbished product from a brand new. I have never seen even a single scratch or mark on a refurbished product, not even a finger print.
If the argument of the lawyer who is filing the class action is that the refurbished screen is less durable than the brand new, he would have to prove it, which at this stage and in this particular case would be imposible.
Maybe Apple would stop using refurbished parts when people stop returning devices for any reason they come up with...I mean seriously, there is great amount of customers who purchase a device and return it within hours or days just because they can and this policy is what makes Apple to use these device for part on repairs. If Apple change its policy to offer a gift cards instead of a cash refund upon returning a product everything would change. People abuse and then blame Apple not being fully responsible...
According to our Apple Business Representative, refurbished means that some of the internals have been replaced from returned devices but any of the parts that you touch are brand new. You will never see a scratch or blemish on a refurbished iPhone.
The only thing I could think of is if the battery would not hold a charge, or if ta tap on the edge of the screen was not at 100%. Both of these would still be covered though. I don't see this as a certifiable as a class nor does it seem to be widespread -- and Apple (from what little I can tell from this) is taking care of this.
I dropped my wife's 4s (always best to drop somebody else's phone, right?) exactly once and the screen got a single hairline crack across the face in a roughly 18 inch fall onto asphalt (I was shocked).
AppleCare replaced it with a phone that was obviously not brand new, but it was in better cosmetic condition than the one I had. Seriously, who expects new devices on warranty coverage? Clean devices in good repair, sure. But not new. No reasonable person who has ever read the terms of any warranty plan can think that new replacements are normal.
Sometimes you can get a "replacement" warranty. It is a 1 shot deal...if it breaks, you get a new one to replace it, or original purchase price. At that point, the warranty ends and a new one would need to be purchased. Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot all offer them for certain items.
The terms for that are: "If during the Plan Term you submit a valid claim notifying Apple that the Covered Device has failed due to accidental damage from handling (“ADH”), Apple will, subject to the service fee described below, either (i) repair the defect using new or refurbished parts that are equivalent to new in performance and reliability, or (ii) exchange the Covered Device with a replacement product that is new or equivalent to new in performance and reliability"
All that matters is that language. Nothing else anyone has brought up matters including the fact that the woman is a klutz. And that language allows Apple to provide a refurbished phone. All that one can argue is that the particular refurbished phone that they received was NOT the equivalent to new in performance and reliability, but unless they can demonstrate that their phone did not look new when they received it or that the "refurbished" battery wouldn't last as long or the phone had performance problems, it seems to me they have absolutely no case. (Which is part of the problem. If they had a case, perhaps the screen wouldn't keep breaking).
According to our Apple Business Representative, refurbished means that some of the internals have been replaced from returned devices but any of the parts that you touch are brand new. You will never see a scratch or blemish on a refurbished iPhone.
I've heard this as well, and also that the battery in a refurbished device is new. If refurbished electronics pass the same visual and electronic tests as new, there is no meaningful difference. Reliability should be the same as new, and the exterior parts are new.
The phrase equivalent to new has to mean not new or it's a meaningless phrase. If people agreed to that phrase then they have to accept a reasonable definition of it: that Apple can make something that is not new but is equivalent.
I only broke my iPhone once and used apple Care. Last year, I had a otter box case on my iPhone 4S. My father got outraged and, threw it at the wall causing the power button to get shot (nothing else was wrong with it)
When we went to the Apple Store, they replaced my iPhone instead of fixing it due to having my Apple Care Warranty.
However my iPhone 4S that I had to swap had a perfect battery (90% efficient). The replacement unit I received has a battery that was on 60% efficiency!
I still have the swapped iPhone and, the battery became shot after barely a year of use! Even with optimization, full restore, ect, my battery drains quickly! To make matters worse, I am not allowed to have my 4S's battery replaced (I have the money and, my parents say no)!
I drill my cell phones to the ground and, once they are unusable, I buy a new one! Apple's negligence has cost me at least 2 years of owning my iPhone 4S!
I'd like to join this lawsuit cause it's true! 99% of the time by using AppleCare, you get a device that has less perks than your current one!
So she breaks a phone gets it replaced for $49 with a refurbished unit, breaks it again and had to pay another $49 again with a refubished unit, she then gets an iPhone 6 proceeds to break that gets it replaced again for $79.
What does this woman and her attorney's think "Like New" is? Is she supposed to get Brand New Devices every time she is so careless she breaks them.
This lawsuit should be tossed out and the woman sued for wasting the court's time. The only claim I could see here is IF, she had a new iPhone and it had a manufacturing defect within say 30 days of purchase and it wasn't damaged. But 3 busted screens, she reall needs to invest into a tempered glass screen protector.
Apple Certified Refurbished Products are pre-owned Apple products that undergo Apple's stringent refurbishment process prior to being offered for sale. While only some units are returned due to technical issues, all units undergo Apple's stringent quality refurbishment process.
Each Apple Certified Refurbished Product:
is fully tested (including full burn-in testing). is refurbished with replacement parts for any defective modules identified in testing. is put through a thorough cleaning process and inspection. is repackaged (including appropriate manuals, cables, new boxes, etc.). includes either the Mac OS originally shipped with the unit or, in some cases, a more recent version*. is given a new refurbished part number and serial number. is placed into a Final QA inspection prior to being added to sellable refurbished stock. Refurbishment procedures follow the same basic technical guidelines as Apple's Finished Goods testing procedures."
Comments
Maybe the lawyer's client should've invested $15 in a cell phone case instead of pulling this?
Well, black people used to sit at the back of the bus as standard practice.
I know we are headed down a rat hole with this, but... it was not standard practice, it was law.
She should change her name to Joanna McWrong.
Yes, I know where the exit is.
I dropped my wife's 4s (always best to drop somebody else's phone, right?) exactly once and the screen got a single hairline crack across the face in a roughly 18 inch fall onto asphalt (I was shocked).
AppleCare replaced it with a phone that was obviously not brand new, but it was in better cosmetic condition than the one I had. Seriously, who expects new devices on warranty coverage? Clean devices in good repair, sure. But not new. No reasonable person who has ever read the terms of any warranty plan can think that new replacements are normal.
This is a frikken joke, surely. You do not have to be a lawyer to see not only does this not have any legs, but it doesn't even have a body. What is the suit arguing, that Apple should supply brand new iPhones every time a serial iPhone abuser smashes it, when the customer paid for and got exactly what they paid for which was a refurbished to new equivalent phone. So to win this case the customer would have to prove that the phone they received was so far below refurbished standard that it was unsatisfactory, but then they'd need the phone as it was, which is impossible now, then they'd need to establish the criteria that would have to fail to miss the cut.
If Apple said they'd supply a brand new out of the box iPhone every time a user abused their screen then they charge $500 replacement cost or thereabouts.
And how does one person constitute a class-action suit?
I think it's a type, should read 'no-class action'
According to our Apple Business Representative, refurbished means that some of the internals have been replaced from returned devices but any of the parts that you touch are brand new. You will never see a scratch or blemish on a refurbished iPhone.
Depends.
There are 3 classes of refurbished items. A, B, and C.
Only A class refurbished devices is like a brand new.
I booked a genius appointment, took it in, had diagnostics run on it and walked out less than 10 minutes later with a replacement which I'm pretty sure was a refurb as it came out of a brown box, but if I hadn't seen the box it came out of there is no way on earth I'd be able to tell... and as my original iPad was a pre-order the replacement is almost certainly newer than the one that had issues and frankly I couldn't be happier with the service and the replacement item.
I really don't see how this case has a leg to stand on - that you might get refurbished replacements is clearly stated in the AppleCare terms and conditions and the replacement is covered by the remaining time on the AppleCare warranty anyway so if you do somehow get a flakey replacement as long as Apple are willing to replace that too then I can't see the problem... Refurb items are sold as being in "as new" condition but because they aren't a first sale item they just aren't allowed to be sold and represented as being new - and lets face it, It's not as if new iPhones never come out of the box with problems so to me a refurb is going to be equally as reliable as a new item out of the box.
I can never distinguish a refurbished product from a brand new. I have never seen even a single scratch or mark on a refurbished product, not even a finger print.
If the argument of the lawyer who is filing the class action is that the refurbished screen is less durable than the brand new, he would have to prove it, which at this stage and in this particular case would be imposible.
Maybe Apple would stop using refurbished parts when people stop returning devices for any reason they come up with...I mean seriously, there is great amount of customers who purchase a device and return it within hours or days just because they can and this policy is what makes Apple to use these device for part on repairs. If Apple change its policy to offer a gift cards instead of a cash refund upon returning a product everything would change. People abuse and then blame Apple not being fully responsible...
Depends.
There are 3 classes of refurbished items. A, B, and C.
Only A class refurbished devices is like a brand new.
No, every single refurbished product from Apple is like a brand new.
According to our Apple Business Representative, refurbished means that some of the internals have been replaced from returned devices but any of the parts that you touch are brand new. You will never see a scratch or blemish on a refurbished iPhone.
The only thing I could think of is if the battery would not hold a charge, or if ta tap on the edge of the screen was not at 100%. Both of these would still be covered though. I don't see this as a certifiable as a class nor does it seem to be widespread -- and Apple (from what little I can tell from this) is taking care of this.
I dropped my wife's 4s (always best to drop somebody else's phone, right?) exactly once and the screen got a single hairline crack across the face in a roughly 18 inch fall onto asphalt (I was shocked).
AppleCare replaced it with a phone that was obviously not brand new, but it was in better cosmetic condition than the one I had. Seriously, who expects new devices on warranty coverage? Clean devices in good repair, sure. But not new. No reasonable person who has ever read the terms of any warranty plan can think that new replacements are normal.
Sometimes you can get a "replacement" warranty. It is a 1 shot deal...if it breaks, you get a new one to replace it, or original purchase price. At that point, the warranty ends and a new one would need to be purchased. Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot all offer them for certain items.
The terms for that are: "If during the Plan Term you submit a valid claim notifying Apple that the Covered Device has failed due to accidental damage from handling (“ADH”), Apple will, subject to the service fee described below, either (i) repair the defect using new or refurbished parts that are equivalent to new in performance and reliability, or (ii) exchange the Covered Device with a replacement product that is new or equivalent to new in performance and reliability"
All that matters is that language. Nothing else anyone has brought up matters including the fact that the woman is a klutz. And that language allows Apple to provide a refurbished phone. All that one can argue is that the particular refurbished phone that they received was NOT the equivalent to new in performance and reliability, but unless they can demonstrate that their phone did not look new when they received it or that the "refurbished" battery wouldn't last as long or the phone had performance problems, it seems to me they have absolutely no case. (Which is part of the problem. If they had a case, perhaps the screen wouldn't keep breaking).
I've heard this as well, and also that the battery in a refurbished device is new. If refurbished electronics pass the same visual and electronic tests as new, there is no meaningful difference. Reliability should be the same as new, and the exterior parts are new.
The phrase equivalent to new has to mean not new or it's a meaningless phrase. If people agreed to that phrase then they have to accept a reasonable definition of it: that Apple can make something that is not new but is equivalent.
When we went to the Apple Store, they replaced my iPhone instead of fixing it due to having my Apple Care Warranty.
However my iPhone 4S that I had to swap had a perfect battery (90% efficient). The replacement unit I received has a battery that was on 60% efficiency!
I still have the swapped iPhone and, the battery became shot after barely a year of use! Even with optimization, full restore, ect, my battery drains quickly! To make matters worse, I am not allowed to have my 4S's battery replaced (I have the money and, my parents say no)!
I drill my cell phones to the ground and, once they are unusable, I buy a new one! Apple's negligence has cost me at least 2 years of owning my iPhone 4S!
I'd like to join this lawsuit cause it's true! 99% of the time by using AppleCare, you get a device that has less perks than your current one!
So she breaks a phone gets it replaced for $49 with a refurbished unit, breaks it again and had to pay another $49 again with a refubished unit, she then gets an iPhone 6 proceeds to break that gets it replaced again for $79.
What does this woman and her attorney's think "Like New" is? Is she supposed to get Brand New Devices every time she is so careless she breaks them.
This lawsuit should be tossed out and the woman sued for wasting the court's time. The only claim I could see here is IF, she had a new iPhone and it had a manufacturing defect within say 30 days of purchase and it wasn't damaged. But 3 busted screens, she reall needs to invest into a tempered glass screen protector.
"(1) What are Apple Certified Refurbished Products?
Apple Certified Refurbished Products are pre-owned Apple products that undergo Apple's stringent refurbishment process prior to being offered for sale. While only some units are returned due to technical issues, all units undergo Apple's stringent quality refurbishment process.
Each Apple Certified Refurbished Product:
is fully tested (including full burn-in testing).
is refurbished with replacement parts for any defective modules identified in testing.
is put through a thorough cleaning process and inspection.
is repackaged (including appropriate manuals, cables, new boxes, etc.).
includes either the Mac OS originally shipped with the unit or, in some cases, a more recent version*.
is given a new refurbished part number and serial number.
is placed into a Final QA inspection prior to being added to sellable refurbished stock.
Refurbishment procedures follow the same basic technical guidelines as Apple's Finished Goods testing procedures."