It's all simple when you only approach it as backup data like you suggest. This story is talking about location-based suggestions and Siri being proactive. Most Apple users have more than one device so that features like handoff function in an iOS ecosystem. When you remove the ability to "handoff" iCloud data from one device to another, you cripple the experience of proactive and seamless AI.
Handoff has nothing to do with cell tower locations or Touch ID. These, like frequent locations should stay device independent at the very least because it is confining them to the devices that go to those places. If you frequently go to a starbucks with your phone and your iPad, they will both have that information. If I usually leave my iPad behind when I go to starbuck, I don’t need notifications going off of a device that never makes that trip. If I want to handoff to it – it still does so, again, if I have that device with me. Hand off will still tell that other device that is the place we are going but it doesn’t have to have the original suggestion because it (in this scenario) isn’t part of the gear used to go. It also doesn’t have to tell that device it’s a frequent stop – it just has to handle the Handoff on a case by case basis.
We are talking about different things. It initially sounded like you were saying “frequent locations” from one device were being sent to apple labeled as “frequent locations” when in actuality, they aren’t – and you would need a larger picture of your movements do determine from another device that a location you travel to is one traveled to frequently.
This is where my confusion was coming from. It’s still acurate however. On device data would still require access to the device to determine a timeline of were you have been, it’s not sitting on a server somewhere. There are quite a few hoops to jump though to get a full picture of you frequent locations and general movements as is.
Handoff has nothing to do with cell tower locations or Touch ID. These, like frequent locations should stay device independent at the very least because it is confining them to the devices that go to those places.
For those not entirely familiar with Handoff and/or Continuity the following Apple document pretty much covers it:
We are talking about different things. It initially sounded like you were saying “frequent locations” from one device were being sent to apple labeled as “frequent locations” when in actuality, they aren’t – and you would need a larger picture of your movements do determine from another device that a location you travel to is one traveled to frequently.
This is where my confusion was coming from. It’s still acurate however. On device data would still require access to the device to determine a timeline of were you have been, it’s not sitting on a server somewhere. There are quite a few hoops to jump though to get a full picture of you frequent locations and general movements as is.
No sir I never said they were labeled as frequent locations when sent to Apple. You should reread it. My apologies if my post was not as clear for you as it should have been.
EDIT: I do have a question of my own which you might know the answer to. Apple says frequesnt locations stay on your device and are not shared with Apple without your consent. Do you know of an example where a user would be giving their consent? Could the new functionality discussed in this AI article require any consent to share frequent locations?
No sir I never said they were labeled as frequent locations when sent to Apple. You should reread it. My apologies if my post was not as clear for you as it should have been.
Fair enough – I have been guilty of needing to word things better as well as misunderstanding others on first read-though.
Fair enough – I have been guilty of needing to word things better as well as misunderstanding others on first read-though.
Thanks. BTW, I edited my last post so you may have missed my question. I'll repost it:
I do have a question of my own which you might know the answer to. Apple says frequent locations stay on your device and are not shared with Apple without your consent. Do you know of an example where a user would be giving their consent? Could the new functionality discussed in this AI article require any consent to share frequent locations?
Thanks. BTW, I edited my last post so you may have missed my question. I'll repost it:
I do have a question of my own which you might know the answer to. Apple says frequent locations stay on your device and are not shared with Apple without your consent. Do you know of an example where a user would be giving their consent? Could the new functionality discussed in this AI article require any consent to share frequent locations?
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that your consent is given if you use Siri, as that is processed on their servers and as such we are offering up info that would ordinarily stay on our device. So for instance, if I ask Siri “how do I get to Jeff’s house from here”, we connect to apple and sent a frequent location – whether it knows it’s a frequent location or not I guess could be debated but it is anonymous anyways. Other things like reporting a error on a map can fall under that label too, it may check to see if you have actually been there to know.
I don’t think this new functionality falls under apple getting consent for data though, the functionality is still processed locally based on the devices movements. The watch is included just because the watch is connected as an extension of the phone. I’m running the public beta and my watch did get a few of these but my iPad – which wasn’t traveling with me – had none of these notifications upon my return home. It seems to me that the suggestions are all based on how you use that particular device but then you can handoff to another device not privy to the initial device’s movements. So if I got that message on my phone (say it knows I go home at 4:30 and it suggests it) I can still hand off that route to my iPad if I wanted to, but according to the iPad I may have just called it up on my phone and threw it there. The iPad doesn’t know what prompted the route being pulled up to begin with. Which to me, is kind of a best of both worlds situation.
How irritating. Apple seems to be creating a nanny operating system that treats users like children who need to have their every step guided by someone wiser.
It also reminds me of Microsoft's irritating Clippy. It'd try to type something and Clippy would come up asking me if I wanted to write a letter. Oh, I I hated it.
Finding anyone that actually liked Clippy would be the real trick (other than the 'but its so cute' comment by someone in the peanut gallery).
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that your consent is given if you use Siri, as that is processed on their servers and as such we are offering up info that would ordinarily stay on our device. So for instance, if I ask Siri “how do I get to Jeff’s house from here”, we connect to apple and sent a frequent location – whether it knows it’s a frequent location or not I guess could be debated but it is anonymous anyways. Other things like reporting a error on a map can fall under that label too, it may check to see if you have actually been there to know.
I don’t think this new functionality falls under apple getting consent for data though, the functionality is still processed locally based on the devices movements. The watch is included just because the watch is connected as an extension of the phone. I’m running the public beta and my watch did get a few of these but my iPad – which wasn’t traveling with me – had none of these notifications upon my return home. It seems to me that the suggestions are all based on how you use that particular device but then you can handoff to another device not privy to the initial device’s movements. So if I got that message on my phone (say it knows I go home at 4:30 and it suggests it) I can still hand off that route to my iPad if I wanted to, but according to the iPad I may have just called it up on my phone and threw it there. The iPad doesn’t know what prompted the route being pulled up to begin with. Which to me, is kind of a best of both worlds situation.
Ok I had an appointment this morning at 8:15. Notification Center told me to make my appointment I would need to leave my house by 7:55, but when I mapped the route in the Maps app it told me total travel time would be 25 minutes (which is correct). Wtf is up with Notification Center?
That's very stupid and arrogant post. Because if you would do any thinking at all, then you would realise this function has no big value by keeping data contained on device as many has figured out. Actually, if it works like that (which I doubt), then it's bad or at least limited functionality and will result in bad user experience first time your phone will break either physically or by software fault and you'll have only old backups. On the other hand, if it is connected to ones iCloud account, then it's gobbling... Even if it gathers data "anonymously" somewhere it connect device with gathered data and it this data should be of any use on other devices you will activate, then these devices need to be somewhow connecter to the user.
I'm not saying this is obvious to anyone, but it definitively harder than just brainless insult.
You are mixing two different data collection points. One is the services Apple offers and, as a result of needing data to provide the service, they collect it for a period of time. The second is iCloud data storage and is a platform to store your personal data. Apple does not mine or use your iCloud data.
For Apple services, Apple's policies are clear that they anonymize the data and also only store it for fixed periods of time. They even explain why they might keep it for those periods.
The Siri enhancements specifically "mine" data on the local device and use it to leverage Apple services (like Maps) for more personalized functionality. Apple is clear that this never leaves the device.
Maps just seems like a great idea in theory, but in practice very hard to make helpful. Last time I tried maps on my iOS9 iPhone 5s, the map itself was just unreadable - the streets kind of spun around, and the direction pointer wobbling. Worst of all, I arrived at my requested location, only to find that the business had moved some years before. Google maps got it right - the Apple Maps database apparently isn't as up to date. Makes it hard to rely on it ever again.
Automatically getting directions seems like a waste of battery and data usage. I certainly know how to get to and from work and 99% of the other places I travel..
It doesn't start navigation. It just tells you estimated time of travel and traffic conditions. Those are perfectly useful pieces of information for a lot of people.
Maps just seems like a great idea in theory, but in practice very hard to make helpful. Last time I tried maps on my iOS9 iPhone 5s, the map itself was just unreadable - the streets kind of spun around, and the direction pointer wobbling. Worst of all, I arrived at my requested location, only to find that the business had moved some years before. Google maps got it right - the Apple Maps database apparently isn't as up to date. Makes it hard to rely on it ever again.
Hope you used Report a Problem. That's what it's for. There are also instances where Google Maps gets it wrong, so it's not a problem specific to one solution. It's why many people use both.
I actually really like the Siri alerts about the traffic when I'm on my way home. The odd thing is I haven't seen any alerts since I updated to iOS 9.0.2
Does anyone know how long it takes the phone to build a database of locations before you start getting these traffic suggestions. I had started getting them on my old phone as soon as i upgraded to ios9. Got a new 6s on Saturday and i am not getting anything yet. Have all the settings right but i have been told the phone has to see your patterns first. How long does that usually take?
If I put in the name of a village, Maps prioritises businesses near me over places, even showing me misspellings rather that the place. It's getting better at knowing places but I often have to find a business or road name that's near the village - Google guesses that I'm looking for a place.
So if I search 'keelby' (a village in the NE of England) I get results scattered all over England, but none are the actual village.
Reminders now also take advantage of the phone knowing when you are in the car. You can say things like "Remind me to get groceries when I get in the car" or "Remind me to bring in the groceries when I get out of the car".
Comments
It's all simple when you only approach it as backup data like you suggest. This story is talking about location-based suggestions and Siri being proactive. Most Apple users have more than one device so that features like handoff function in an iOS ecosystem. When you remove the ability to "handoff" iCloud data from one device to another, you cripple the experience of proactive and seamless AI.
Handoff has nothing to do with cell tower locations or Touch ID. These, like frequent locations should stay device independent at the very least because it is confining them to the devices that go to those places. If you frequently go to a starbucks with your phone and your iPad, they will both have that information. If I usually leave my iPad behind when I go to starbuck, I don’t need notifications going off of a device that never makes that trip. If I want to handoff to it – it still does so, again, if I have that device with me. Hand off will still tell that other device that is the place we are going but it doesn’t have to have the original suggestion because it (in this scenario) isn’t part of the gear used to go. It also doesn’t have to tell that device it’s a frequent stop – it just has to handle the Handoff on a case by case basis.
You couldn't find it? It's verbatim from Apple. As sure as you were about locations I thought you had probably read it already.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203033
I didn’t, thanks.
You couldn't find it? It's verbatim from Apple. As sure as you were about locations I thought you had probably read it already.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203033
We are talking about different things. It initially sounded like you were saying “frequent locations” from one device were being sent to apple labeled as “frequent locations” when in actuality, they aren’t – and you would need a larger picture of your movements do determine from another device that a location you travel to is one traveled to frequently.
This is where my confusion was coming from. It’s still acurate however. On device data would still require access to the device to determine a timeline of were you have been, it’s not sitting on a server somewhere. There are quite a few hoops to jump though to get a full picture of you frequent locations and general movements as is.
For those not entirely familiar with Handoff and/or Continuity the following Apple document pretty much covers it:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204681
AI also had their own article going over it:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/04/18/how-to-enable-apples-handoff-feature-between-your-ios-devices-and-mac
EDIT: I do have a question of my own which you might know the answer to. Apple says frequesnt locations stay on your device and are not shared with Apple without your consent. Do you know of an example where a user would be giving their consent? Could the new functionality discussed in this AI article require any consent to share frequent locations?
No sir I never said they were labeled as frequent locations when sent to Apple. You should reread it. My apologies if my post was not as clear for you as it should have been.
Fair enough – I have been guilty of needing to word things better as well as misunderstanding others on first read-though.
I do have a question of my own which you might know the answer to. Apple says frequent locations stay on your device and are not shared with Apple without your consent. Do you know of an example where a user would be giving their consent? Could the new functionality discussed in this AI article require any consent to share frequent locations?
Thanks. BTW, I edited my last post so you may have missed my question. I'll repost it:
I do have a question of my own which you might know the answer to. Apple says frequent locations stay on your device and are not shared with Apple without your consent. Do you know of an example where a user would be giving their consent? Could the new functionality discussed in this AI article require any consent to share frequent locations?
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that your consent is given if you use Siri, as that is processed on their servers and as such we are offering up info that would ordinarily stay on our device. So for instance, if I ask Siri “how do I get to Jeff’s house from here”, we connect to apple and sent a frequent location – whether it knows it’s a frequent location or not I guess could be debated but it is anonymous anyways. Other things like reporting a error on a map can fall under that label too, it may check to see if you have actually been there to know.
I don’t think this new functionality falls under apple getting consent for data though, the functionality is still processed locally based on the devices movements. The watch is included just because the watch is connected as an extension of the phone. I’m running the public beta and my watch did get a few of these but my iPad – which wasn’t traveling with me – had none of these notifications upon my return home. It seems to me that the suggestions are all based on how you use that particular device but then you can handoff to another device not privy to the initial device’s movements. So if I got that message on my phone (say it knows I go home at 4:30 and it suggests it) I can still hand off that route to my iPad if I wanted to, but according to the iPad I may have just called it up on my phone and threw it there. The iPad doesn’t know what prompted the route being pulled up to begin with. Which to me, is kind of a best of both worlds situation.
How irritating. Apple seems to be creating a nanny operating system that treats users like children who need to have their every step guided by someone wiser.
It also reminds me of Microsoft's irritating Clippy. It'd try to type something and Clippy would come up asking me if I wanted to write a letter. Oh, I I hated it.
Finding anyone that actually liked Clippy would be the real trick (other than the 'but its so cute' comment by someone in the peanut gallery).
How convenient, I regularly get lost trying to find my home after work....
For Apple services, Apple's policies are clear that they anonymize the data and also only store it for fixed periods of time. They even explain why they might keep it for those periods.
The Siri enhancements specifically "mine" data on the local device and use it to leverage Apple services (like Maps) for more personalized functionality. Apple is clear that this never leaves the device.
Maps just seems like a great idea in theory, but in practice very hard to make helpful. Last time I tried maps on my iOS9 iPhone 5s, the map itself was just unreadable - the streets kind of spun around, and the direction pointer wobbling. Worst of all, I arrived at my requested location, only to find that the business had moved some years before. Google maps got it right - the Apple Maps database apparently isn't as up to date. Makes it hard to rely on it ever again.
I actually really like the Siri alerts about the traffic when I'm on my way home. The odd thing is I haven't seen any alerts since I updated to iOS 9.0.2
Does anyone know how long it takes the phone to build a database of locations before you start getting these traffic suggestions. I had started getting them on my old phone as soon as i upgraded to ios9. Got a new 6s on Saturday and i am not getting anything yet. Have all the settings right but i have been told the phone has to see your patterns first. How long does that usually take?
If I put in the name of a village, Maps prioritises businesses near me over places, even showing me misspellings rather that the place. It's getting better at knowing places but I often have to find a business or road name that's near the village - Google guesses that I'm looking for a place.
So if I search 'keelby' (a village in the NE of England) I get results scattered all over England, but none are the actual village.