BMW concerned about sharing manufacturing expertise to develop Apple Car - report

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  • Reply 21 of 96
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,234member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by portcity View Post





    Tech or no tech, BMW is still going to sell cars. People purchase cars for more then just a nice infotainment center. Car buying isn't like technology. No wealthy person says "let me pass on on this luxury vehicle because it lacks car play for my iPhone". This isn't Chevy we are talking about. BMV has some of the best driving cars in the world. They are smart to be cautious about giving out there info.



    What you are failing to understand, it that the car of the future will not be like the car of today. Forget car play, iPhone integration etc, think AI.

    Fewer and fewer people are likely to own their own vehicles, iTaxi's will become a cheap and convenient alternative. There may even come a time in the future when human driven cars are banned from the roads as they are too dangerous! Once people get accustomed to the safety of automated cars, popular opinion will swing against the human guided ones. 

     

    So yes, that means computing power and lots of it! Software is complex, cars by comparison are a walk in the park. Especially when you have $180b in the bank :) Traditional car companies are screwed, they will be relegated to niche markets.

  • Reply 22 of 96
    bocboc Posts: 72member
    Making a car is one thing many engineers can copy or do from experience w/help from suppliers. BMW is too worried about

    Selling, Distribution and servicing a care is totally different hornets nest.
  • Reply 23 of 96
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,718member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Thats the average age of THE CAR. 

    I'm talking about how long a person keeps a car on average when they buy it new.  I think its about 6 years.

    So if you buy an AppleCar you will probably have an iPhone to maximize its usage.
    You keep your car for 6 years.
    Which means you will have an iPhone for 6 years.
    Which means you will probably buy 2 or 3 iphones for the time you own the car.

    Its just another powerful sticky item in the Apple ecosystem -

    Communication
    TV
    Music
    Apps
    Car
    Health
    Home
    Payments
    Damn!

    Once you are in the eco-system it will be almost impossible to get out.

    A large number of people lease cars these days in western societies (never own a depreciating asset and so on ...), and it's not just businesses but private folks too. So that's between two and three years mostly. Then you have the massive second hand business that follows for those vehicles. If that was all part of the same business, i.e. you simply turn in the lease for a new one and then Apple deals with it a second time. There might be a good business.

    Of course if Apple make them out of solid aluminum blocks (I jest) the cost of recycling is a fraction the cost of producing aluminum from scratch too. :) Perhaps liquid metal cars? :D
  • Reply 24 of 96
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Whats great about Apple going into the Auto business?

    Think about it.  How long do you keep your car?

    5 years? 10 years?

    The average person probably keeps their car for 6 years.  So if you buy an AppleCar do you really think that person is going to move away from an iPhone?  HELL NO.

    Every AppleCar sale is almost a guarantee sale of 3 or 4 iPhones in the future.

    Do you really think Apple's motive is so people don't jump ship from the iPhone? I don't think that's an issue in any way.

    jameskatt2 wrote: »
    Apple can simply BUY BMW.

    Unlike Tesla, BMW actually makes a large profit.
    At $60 BILLION, BMW is a bargain compared to buying Tesla.

    BMW has a complete range of luxury automobiles that target the part of the market Apple loves.
    BMW has the manufacturing facilities to build millions of cars - unlike Tesla.
    BMW has a larger range of electric cars than Tesla.

    After the purchase, BMW can be a subsidiary of Apple just like Filemaker is.

    Then no one at BMW will complain about being Apple's supplier.

    I know how you derived the $60 billion valuation but it's not accurate for a full buyout.
  • Reply 25 of 96
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    
    
    
    I am more than happy to see the day that Apple makes me want a car from them. So far I cannot imagine preferring them to a Porsche/BMW/Audi/Mercedes with a stick shift.

    In many ways your desire for a stick shift puts you squarely in the past! The new Electric technology is vastly different than an internal combustion engine from the drivability standpoint. For one there is no overriding need for a transmission and even if there is one it doesn't really need a massive number of gears or even human input.

    While I can understand the idea of "fun to drive" electric cars just deliver a different kind of fun.
  • Reply 26 of 96
    tjwolftjwolf Posts: 424member

    Usually there's a premium over the current market price for a company to willingly sell itself - let's say 30%.  BMW's market cap is $60b, so it could probably be had for $80b.  Apple has > $150b in its off-shore banks.  So, if it wanted to, it could easily buy BMW.  If it could do so without paying US taxes on that money, it might even be a great investment!

  • Reply 27 of 96
    msanttimsantti Posts: 1,377member

    Apple needs to work with Gordon Murray.

     

    http://www.gordonmurraydesign.com/en/?cultureKey=en

     

    http://www.gordonmurraydesign.com/en/products/current/istream.html

     

     

    One of his more famous cars:

     

    McLaren F1.

  • Reply 28 of 96
    jay fayjay fay Posts: 3member

    Why not buy SAAB!

    Saab is presently owned by National Electric Vehicle Sweden, which would fit nicely

    into the Apple's electric car plans. They could get the company and all the

    working parts for a song and dance and spit on GM for not selling Spiker their

    software. Go Saab-Apple

  • Reply 29 of 96
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    Buy Tesla. Own the "gigafactory". Build all Apple device batteries in the U.S. Build cars in the U.S. Have a network of several thousand high speed charging stations already built out. Tesla and Apple have always seemed a compatible fit. If Apple is serious about cars, Tesla brings a lot more to the table than a partnership with BMW.
  • Reply 30 of 96
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

     

    Traditional car companies are screwed, they will be relegated to niche markets.


    The only places that a self driving car would work are in countries that have well designed and maintained infrastructure. There has to be solid predictability for it to be reliable. That pretty much means it could work in the cities in the US and some of Europe, but that leaves the rest of the world where self driving cars are not practical at all, and that is not exactly a niche market. I agree iTaxis is an ideal use of the technology because often people who use taxis are from out of town and don't know their way around, but for general purpose privately owned cars, I think they will remain mostly owner driven for a very long time, especially in the suburbs and rural areas.

  • Reply 31 of 96
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    The only places that a self driving car would work are in countries that have well designed and maintained infrastructure. There has to be solid predictability for it to be reliable. That pretty much means it could work in the cities in the US and some of Europe, but that leaves the rest of the world where self driving cars are not practical at all, and that is not exactly a niche market. I agree iTaxis is an ideal use of the technology because often people who use taxis are from out of town and don't know their way around, but for general purpose privately owned cars, I think they will remain mostly owner driven for a very long time, especially in the suburbs and rural areas.


    That's an excellent point. Apple sells the iPhone everywhere. The Apple Car could only be sold in well developed urban centers, which leaves out a lot of customers and reduces Apple's market considerably.

  • Reply 32 of 96
    karmadavekarmadave Posts: 369member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by robbyx View Post



    Buy Tesla. Own the "gigafactory". Build all Apple device batteries in the U.S. Build cars in the U.S. Have a network of several thousand high speed charging stations already built out. Tesla and Apple have always seemed a compatible fit. If Apple is serious about cars, Tesla brings a lot more to the table than a partnership with BMW.



    This. Apple wouldn't necessarily need to buy Tesla. They could form a join venture that would build specific vehicles leveraging the strengths of both companies. Tesla's current manufacturing facility was previously a joint-venture between GM and Toyota. GM eventually pulled out of the joint venture and Tesla bought (or leased) the factory. Now if Tesla could just build a vehicle they can sell for under $50K...

  • Reply 33 of 96
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,842moderator
    inkling wrote: »
    I'm a skeptic. The very traits that make a company successful in one area often make it ill-adapted for other areas.

    For the counterpoint, see the 100+ year history of General Electric.
  • Reply 34 of 96
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    mstone wrote: »
    The only places that a self driving car would work are in countries that have well designed and maintained infrastructure. There has to be solid predictability for it to be reliable. That pretty much means it could work in the cities in the US and some of Europe, but that leaves the rest of the world where self driving cars are not practical at all, and that is not exactly a niche market. I agree iTaxis is an ideal use of the technology because often people who use taxis are from out of town and don't know their way around, but for general purpose privately owned cars, I think they will remain mostly owner driven for a very long time, especially in the suburbs and rural areas.

    I partly agree. I think it will be a long time before self driving cars are possible in many parts of the world, but I think that has more to do with the human drivers in those places and the lack of traffic rules and enforcement. As you said, reliability.

    But in the U.S., Europe, Japan, etc, I think self driving vehicles are very possible in all areas, not just the cities. If anything, dealing with rural highways will probably be easier as there are far fewer potential obstacles and unanticipated events. Rural India might see self driving cars before urban India for that very reason.

    Anyone who thinks we're going to hop into little self driving pods and be shuttled around in the near future is kidding themselves. Self driving functionality will be like cruise control for a while. No doubt we will create 100% self driving vehicles one day, but for the next few decades I imagine we'll see it as a feature, one that is only supported in certain environments.

    There are a lot of ethical issues when it comes to self driving cars too. How to evaluate a situation that could and probably will result in a loss of life? That's no small problem to solve, much less legislate and regulate.
  • Reply 35 of 96
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post





    The average age of a vehicle in the US is eleven years old. My personal car is almost thirteen years old. I don't intend to replace it any time soon either.

     

     

    I'm curious, do you mean life expectancy? ... or the average age of all the cars on the road currently (if the latter, that number sounds too low to me).

     

    Anecdotally, mine is now pushing 16 years, a run of the mill Ford Explorer which I got used in 2002. It's been a decent vehicle, I use it for my occasionally messy work and yet somehow the body and paint are good. Might have lucked out on the drive train but no 4 wheel drive since it was made for the southern market.

     

    I will seriously consider anything that Apple introduces, as long as it's upgradeable. Probably the 'Sport' edition, and pass on the Milanese Loop as I'm past mid-life crisis point.

  • Reply 36 of 96
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member
    rogifan wrote: »

    I'm still skeptical that existing carmakers will let Apple take over their dashboard. There was another story recently that automakers are very reluctant to give Apple and Google the data they're interested in. Projecting UI through CarPlay or Android Auto is about as far as Apple of Google will get.

    If you've read anything at all about CarPlay, you'll know that there is no 'taking over the dashboard' or sharing of data involved. Those are just red herrings. (I don't know about Android).

    It is fundamentally about a useful, aesthetic, functional, convenient, connected auto interface experience for the consumer. There will be automakers who care about that and address it, and others who won't. The experience of companies like BMW and Audi with their in-dash systems does not give me a lot of confidence that they can pull it off. They'll all come around, eventually.
  • Reply 37 of 96
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member
    portcity wrote: »

    Tech or no tech, BMW is still going to sell cars. People purchase cars for more then just a nice infotainment center. Car buying isn't like technology. No wealthy person says "let me pass on on this luxury vehicle because it lacks car play for my iPhone". This isn't Chevy we are talking about. BMV has some of the best driving cars in the world. They are smart to be cautious about giving out there info.

    First, it's totally off-base to suggest that, if/when Apple came out with a car, creating one of the "best driving cars in the world" wouldn't be on top of their list. People who drive Teslas swear by them (I've never driven one), and the very high quality diving experience. Apple will surely match that.

    Second, when I am actually in the car, what's in front of my eyes and the way I interact with it becomes immensely important. This is where most carmakers, especially the luxury German carmakers suck. (I've owned many of them). The 'nice infotainment center' is way more important than you imagine.
  • Reply 38 of 96
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,718member
    Anything reported Apple is doing Google and Samsung will be trying to preempt as usual so I assume they are talking to Kia given so many Americans prefer to buy South Korean goods over American. When I say American here I am taking about the companies themselves not where various parts in various products are manufactured or assembled.
  • Reply 39 of 96
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    If you've read anything at all about CarPlay, you'll know that there is no 'taking over the dashboard' or sharing of data involved. Those are just red herrings. (I don't know about Android).

    It is fundamentally about a useful, aesthetic, functional, convenient, connected auto interface experience for the consumer. There will be automakers who care about that and address it, and others who won't. The experience of companies like BMW and Audi with their in-dash systems does not give me a lot of confidence that they can pull it off. They'll all come around, eventually.

    I don't ever see them ceding control. CarPlay as it stands is ok but I can't imagine it's making Apple much money. I have to believe Apple's ambitions go way beyond CarPlay.
  • Reply 40 of 96
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member
    rogifan wrote: »

    I don't ever see them ceding control. CarPlay as it stands is ok but I can't imagine it's making Apple much money. I have to believe Apple's ambitions go way beyond CarPlay.

    You're pointlessly conflating two separate issues: CarPlay (short term) and a possible Apple car (speculative, long term).
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