Just put me on block. Seriously. Look yourself in the mirror and get some help. If you are overjoyed with other people's suffering you need some serious help.
And I do mean suffering. If Apple continues to tank MILLIONS of people's retirement accounts will be crushed. I'm decades away from retirement so it won't affect me much.
Anyone here can quickly review your posting history and see that 99 times out of 100 you are shitting on someone. You need to look at your own behavior.
Also, since you're a coward and backslider whose word is worthless, I am blocking you...again.
So, Wall Street is complaining about an average slump in share price that they caused by continually increasing expectations on Apple to make them "fail" in the investor's eyes. Good one dickheads.
Is there any law that says a private company can't have millions of owners?
There must be a way for Apple to convert all shares to private shares. And those who don't want to convert can be bought out at a premium. IMO I think most investors will welcome going private.
Not a realistic option. It would have to float too much debt to do so. The typical going private transaction is done with about two-thirds debt relative to enterprise value (i.e., net of cash), so we're talking about the company and its private equity sponsors having to raise something like $450B to finance the repurchase.
So, Wall Street is complaining about an average slump in share price that they caused by continually increasing expectations on Apple to make them "fail" in the investor's eyes. Good one dickheads.
The "manipulation" position is that this is done on purpose. "Wall Street" manipulates the news so it looks like Apple is not doing well - when in reality most companies would LOVE to be in their position. This news manipulation then causes the price to slump and the big players grab up shares. The stock then climbs back up to more sane levels. Profit. And then in a few months the cycle starts over again.
That's my completely naive take on the situation. I don't understand who is willing to sell at these low prices. All I know is that I believe AAPL is undervalued at this price and I'm buying some shares.
Is there any law that says a private company can't have millions of owners?
There must be a way for Apple to convert all shares to private shares. And those who don't want to convert can be bought out at a premium. IMO I think most investors will welcome going private.
You would not have to raise the full $650 billion.
Like I said people could convert their public common shares to private shares. I'm pretty sure the majority of shareholders would do that. The rest could be bought out with Apple's $200 billion in cash.
Stop! Just stop you're pathetic crying for Apple to go private. It can't happen, it won't happen and nothing like that will happen. Up all these numbers that follow and maybe you'll understand why Apple can't go private.
There is none.
No, really, there is none. So stop imagining them.
Let's just assume you'd need to offer a 30% premium to today's stock price to even get the Board of Directors to consider a deal. (Apple's institutional ownership is relatively paltry, there is no "Michael Dell" to vote/control a big bloc of stock, so you can't run some game where you get the board to take a sweetheart deal for some minority shareholder.
You need to get lots of people / institutions / employees to vote their stock out of their own hands. Why are they doing this on a company with a 2% yield? No reason, but let's pretend 30% gets it done.
That makes the cost of the buyout about $700 billion. Apple has about $150 billion in cash. Now you only need $550 billion in debt to buy the remaining shares.
Easy enough?
Well, the biggest corporate debt offering ever was not even one tenth that size (Verizon Raises $49 Billion in Largest Corporate-Bond Sale). Apple currently has about $40 billion in debt-related liabilities on its balance sheet, so you'd need to be able to increase that by another 14-fold to pull this off.
Aside from the fact that such an offering would be absolutely unprecedented, let's get a sense of magnitude. The U.S. federal deficit will be $492 billion this year (U.S. Budget Deficit Narrows as Economy, Jobs Boost Revenue). Apple would need to raise more than that to take itself private.
The interest rates it would have to offer would rise higher and higher given that the debt encumbrance would put the company at grave financial risk. The U.S. government cannot realistically default (unless it refuses to pay its bills as it did in the debt-ceiling nonsense) because it owns a money printing press. Apple, on the other hand, could.
Realistically, it would be very fortunate to finance $550 billion at something like 5% over 10 years if such an offering were actually even possible. Again, it isn't possible. I'm just adding a premium over the government's rates to account for risk. That'd be $70 billion in debt service annually.
Apple makes around $13-14 billion quarterly before taxes. Multiply that by four and you have $52 billion. You are $18 billion short. Even if you adjust down the financing to some shorter maturities, which might allow you to cut the bill to around $60 billion, you are nearly $10 billion short.
Oh, and you've spent the whole cash cushion. And you can't borrow anymore. And while you don't have to spend on public dividends, the history of buyouts says you will have to spend on private ones.
Then there's the whole thing about how a debt offering of this size has not ever been done and nothing close to it has ever been done and so you can stop thinking about it.
Stock is down 4% on a day when the markets are basically flat to up. The panic is getting comical now. Analysts going on CNBC grasping at straws trying to explain what's happening. The latest is worries in the semiconductor industry and Apple Music. Again it's so stupid all you can do is laugh.
Stock is down 4% on a day when the markets are basically flat to up. The panic is getting comical now. Analysts going on CNBC grasping at straws trying to explain what's happening. The latest is worries in the semiconductor industry and Apple Music. Again it's so stupid all you can do is laugh.
Just in case, I'm considering putting in a buy at $110.
But could common stockholders opt to simply convert their public shares to private shares? That way the company would not have to buy all the shares but just those that want to sell.
I am really not quite sure of what you mean. Perhaps you could explain how such a transaction will work?
(Btw, I was being very optimistic in my earlier estimates for the amount of debt, since that did not include a premium -- often in excess of one-third in going private transactions -- that Apple will have to pay to its existing shareholders to take the company private.)
What I'm saying is, is it possible to convert public shares to private shares?
Your common stock has an actual value of pennies per share. The only value they have is that they can be traded on the public exchange. They do not represent an equity stake in the company. They are unsecured debt. The only time they would represent a piece of the company is if the company goes bankrupt but common shares are the last to get paid after the preferred stock, bond holders and other creditors.
Comments
You're the genius who volunteered, with no opposition mind you, for a self-ban. Enjoy the time off.
I knew all along you were a gutless liar and you just proved it.
Also, "it takes two to tango".
I never offered to self-ban. You did. And you going back on your own promise indicates you are a worm.
And we're ALL tied to it.
I'm not gloating, I'm overjoyed at the prospect of never seeing another one of your posts.
We've been through this many times before. Even money borrowed abroad has to be serviced with US cash, otherwise taxes have to be paid.
(Typos, formatting fixed).
oh wtf ... go for it !
popcorn
Hooray! ????
Anyone here can quickly review your posting history and see that 99 times out of 100 you are shitting on someone. You need to look at your own behavior.
Also, since you're a coward and backslider whose word is worthless, I am blocking you...again.
So, Wall Street is complaining about an average slump in share price that they caused by continually increasing expectations on Apple to make them "fail" in the investor's eyes. Good one dickheads.
Not a realistic option. It would have to float too much debt to do so. The typical going private transaction is done with about two-thirds debt relative to enterprise value (i.e., net of cash), so we're talking about the company and its private equity sponsors having to raise something like $450B to finance the repurchase.
Not going to happen.
So, Wall Street is complaining about an average slump in share price that they caused by continually increasing expectations on Apple to make them "fail" in the investor's eyes. Good one dickheads.
The "manipulation" position is that this is done on purpose. "Wall Street" manipulates the news so it looks like Apple is not doing well - when in reality most companies would LOVE to be in their position. This news manipulation then causes the price to slump and the big players grab up shares. The stock then climbs back up to more sane levels. Profit. And then in a few months the cycle starts over again.
That's my completely naive take on the situation. I don't understand who is willing to sell at these low prices. All I know is that I believe AAPL is undervalued at this price and I'm buying some shares.
AAPL at $114ish now.
Stop! Just stop you're pathetic crying for Apple to go private. It can't happen, it won't happen and nothing like that will happen. Up all these numbers that follow and maybe you'll understand why Apple can't go private.
There is none.
No, really, there is none. So stop imagining them.
Let's just assume you'd need to offer a 30% premium to today's stock price to even get the Board of Directors to consider a deal. (Apple's institutional ownership is relatively paltry, there is no "Michael Dell" to vote/control a big bloc of stock, so you can't run some game where you get the board to take a sweetheart deal for some minority shareholder.
You need to get lots of people / institutions / employees to vote their stock out of their own hands. Why are they doing this on a company with a 2% yield? No reason, but let's pretend 30% gets it done.
That makes the cost of the buyout about $700 billion. Apple has about $150 billion in cash. Now you only need $550 billion in debt to buy the remaining shares.
Easy enough?
Well, the biggest corporate debt offering ever was not even one tenth that size (Verizon Raises $49 Billion in Largest Corporate-Bond Sale). Apple currently has about $40 billion in debt-related liabilities on its balance sheet, so you'd need to be able to increase that by another 14-fold to pull this off.
Aside from the fact that such an offering would be absolutely unprecedented, let's get a sense of magnitude. The U.S. federal deficit will be $492 billion this year (U.S. Budget Deficit Narrows as Economy, Jobs Boost Revenue). Apple would need to raise more than that to take itself private.
The interest rates it would have to offer would rise higher and higher given that the debt encumbrance would put the company at grave financial risk. The U.S. government cannot realistically default (unless it refuses to pay its bills as it did in the debt-ceiling nonsense) because it owns a money printing press. Apple, on the other hand, could.
Realistically, it would be very fortunate to finance $550 billion at something like 5% over 10 years if such an offering were actually even possible. Again, it isn't possible. I'm just adding a premium over the government's rates to account for risk. That'd be $70 billion in debt service annually.
Apple makes around $13-14 billion quarterly before taxes. Multiply that by four and you have $52 billion. You are $18 billion short. Even if you adjust down the financing to some shorter maturities, which might allow you to cut the bill to around $60 billion, you are nearly $10 billion short.
Oh, and you've spent the whole cash cushion. And you can't borrow anymore. And while you don't have to spend on public dividends, the history of buyouts says you will have to spend on private ones.
Then there's the whole thing about how a debt offering of this size has not ever been done and nothing close to it has ever been done and so you can stop thinking about it.
Just in case, I'm considering putting in a buy at $110.
"Blue Horseshoe loves Apple..."
Smart move. It is probably at the bottom or very close to it.
Now $113. Perhaps you might want to rephrase that.
I am really not quite sure of what you mean. Perhaps you could explain how such a transaction will work?
(Btw, I was being very optimistic in my earlier estimates for the amount of debt, since that did not include a premium -- often in excess of one-third in going private transactions -- that Apple will have to pay to its existing shareholders to take the company private.)
What I'm saying is, is it possible to convert public shares to private shares?
Your common stock has an actual value of pennies per share. The only value they have is that they can be traded on the public exchange. They do not represent an equity stake in the company. They are unsecured debt. The only time they would represent a piece of the company is if the company goes bankrupt but common shares are the last to get paid after the preferred stock, bond holders and other creditors.