There is a specific point you are missing. In store purchases (i.e. purchases at Apple Retail or Trader Joes or the London Tube) are CARD PRESENT whereas purchases made using Apple Pay through an app (i.e. Airbnb or Instacart) are CARD NOT PRESENT.
As a side note - Apple can't mandate anything with merchants. The processors are the ones that actually enforce the process since it is their infrastructure. Apple Pay is just an authorization and identity platform. Because of Touch ID, the processors recognize Apple Pay as card present in physically present transactions. Additionally, Apple Pay specifically uses tokenization as a core aspect of the transaction. The tokenization was developed by the processors. They only announced tokenization is coming to Europe this year for both MasterCard (announced May 2015) and Visa (announced February 2015). Apple has no control over the rollout. That also is true for the US. The banks and the credit card issuers are responsible for that.
Far too many merchants still don't even know about Apple Pay. I think Apple needs an advertising blitz like they did for the watch.
When Apple Pay first was available, I called my bank to ask when they would support it. The employee I spoke with had no idea what I was talking about. They've since added support, but that was a sign to me that Apple needs to do a better marketing job.
It's not in Apple's hands. The banks and credit card companies need to set up the infrastructure to handle tokenized transactions. Apple Pay is just authorization and identity. There is a scramble within the industry to get the infrastructure up and tuned for the October 2015 liability shift. When that happens, the weakest link in the transaction become liable. Terminal companies aren't able to produce machines fast enough.
it is hard to believe that once one has tried Apply Pay one would ever go back to the old way. These days I would avoid places that doesn't accept Apply Pay if possible.
I've tried it a few times, at Whole Foods and at my local supermarket. TBH I don't find it a big deal to take out my wallet and swipe my card, I find myself doing that out of force of habit even though I could use Apple Pay.
The tech needs to be better, the terminal hardware needs to be better, support needs to be better.
I want 0.3 sec of payment, not 3 sec.
I want electronic receipt,
1) It's not any slower than C&P or a card swipe, but faster is certainly better.
2) Electronic receipts are nice to have but I really don't want to give my email to every merchant. I don't mean manually giving it to them, I mean I also don't want it sent via my Apple Pay payment so they can send me a receipt. One solution is the receipt is sent to your bank encapsulated in the transaction as metadata which your bank then forwards onto you, or perhaps it's sent back via the NFC connection (this would now have to be much faster) which is then stored in Wallet with the store ID, timestamp/date, amount and other purchase data.
I think a lot of these will happen in time, but so far there dont seems to be any incentive for merchants to have NFC payment ready.
It's certainly not the same incentive as the banks, but there is some with general payment options. If there is a Walgreens on one corner and a CVS on the other one might go to Walgreens because they accept Apple Pay. Maybe not today, but once this grows out and people stop carrying as many cards (or any cards) on their person this could be a big issue with the potential lose of sales, just like it eventually became with retailers when credit cards reached a certain point.
I think merchants have to buy their own terminals in most cases, and that's with transaction fees. I really don't see banks (or Apple) needing to get companies to purchase and install NFC-capacble terminals, but the saving from fraud should make it extremely feasible for the banks to do it. Still, I would think the better solution would be to simply lower the transaction fees for Apple Pay (or secure Apple Pay-like services) which would then push merchants to purchase the terminals and advertise it. But that isn't about the customer, it's about the banks saving a lot of money on fraud once the saturation point is reached. The banks obviously know how each payment was made but we may need a new system that isn't as archaic as ""card present" and "card not present" since Apple Pay shouldn't be compared to either. My timeframe for this saturation in the US is about 5 years.
s. Had Apple Pay made it's debut in Canada, another country with iPhone usage share over 40% but that has contactless terminals in all retailers worth going to, Apple Pay would have taken off much faster and avoided this kind of bad press.
Apple would get bad press anyway. Even successful, record breaking quarters are deemed not successful enough.
I hope this is a service Apple will commit too and improve and not just dump after a couple of years because it's not a great success and they lose interest. All these low overall adoption rates of recent Apple services like this and HomeKit worries me. Apple has to commit and make these experiences seamless and bug-free. Otherwise nobody will use them anymore, the competition will catch up and Apple will drop them Google style.
@jungmark Yep - Bloomberg would spin it anyway they want to. Lies mixed in with half truths not mention a little sprinkle of fact just to justify their lofty position as a, ahem, "credible source". I could forgive them for being just another aggregator - if they weren't hard wired into their own terminal which every trader has. They've evolved over the last few years since the explosion of the net into some other kind of beast. Easily manipulated.
(I'm on a particularly bad anti-Bloomberg bent at the moment.)
I hope this is a service Apple will commit too and improve and not just dump after a couple of years because it's not a great success and they lose interest. All these low overall adoption rates of recent Apple services like this and HomeKit worries me. Apple has to commit and make these experiences seamless and bug-free. Otherwise nobody will use them anymore, the competition will catch up and Apple will drop them Google style.
You've gotta be kidding me and everyone else here.
Apple pay is mana from heaven for the banks !
Yes it costs them a small percentage but the security and reduction in theft and fraud will save them billions.
Gee, I wonder why they jumped on board so quickly.
Apple has provided a safe and secure mechanism - the banks have to sell it to reap the benefits.
The main problem is just not enough retailers offering the option. I would use it everyday but I don't go to McDonald, Penera bread, Whole Food, or Macy's everyday. I go to Fred Meyer and Panda express most of time but they don't accept Apple Pay. What could I do??
I keep having places like McDonalds with older NFC units finding it doesn't work due to faulty systems so then have to pull out the card. Also drive thru windows are a pain as worker has to move their swipe/NFC and hold it out... Need a smaller/portable NFC reader to use at drive thru windows
Get ApplePay on all gas stations and I would bet money that it will take off like wildfire. At least at gas stations, it will give users the ability to try it out in a semi-private fashion without the worry of having a line of people behind you.
I have yet to try it out simply because when I'm at a checkout, I need to get out fast and I have zero time to fiddle with trying to use it. Gas stations, a totally different story.
Australia please. I bought an iPhone 6 Plus for this and it's ridiculous that the next model is almost out before this is rolled out internationally.
You might have a bit of a wait there mate. I can't see any reason why Australian banks should accommodate Apple in any way. They want a slice of the pie for bringing absolutely nothing to the table.
I have recently moved to Australia. ApplePay isn't here yet. But, I don't understand why. Every credit card and bank card has a NFC for paywave. Everyone has it. It is already in use every day by everyone. A common habit. The hardware is already in place. It would take nothing implement. But, yet not here.
Same here I really want to use and have tried at Costa and Pret who brag about it at the checkout but zero success. I am obviously doing something very wrong as others here clearly are having a good experience.
It's beyond frustrating that pretty much every SINGLE terminal up here in Canada is NFC enabled, yet can't use Apple pay yet. It better be come out this year.
Call me an idiot, but I can't figure out how to get ApplePay to work %u2014 and I'm only in my 40s. I actually have used it several times, but I only got it to work by accident, both times differently. (It's like of the steering wheel was in a different place each time you got in the car.)
Ideally I could hold my (off) phone up to something, and it would be done without user interaction. But no. Instead, you either have to touch the Apple ID button%u2026 or press it%u2026 or hold it%u2026 or maybe I have to go into Wallet? Or maybe several of those things! All I know is that when I'm at the front of the queue, I don%u2019t have time to be trying various combinations to see what works. Anyway, so that's why I don%u2019t use it, and I can't be the only one.
Since you invited me to call you an idiot, I will do so: You IDIOT!!
The reason you need to touch the Apple ID button so the iPhone knows it is you using the device to approve taking money out of your account. The way you want to use it would allow anyone who got possession of your phone to spend your money. FYI, the Apple watch will allow you to pay without touching any ID button because you had to authorize the watch in the morning when you strapped it on your wrist.
And "no" you are not the only idiot who can't walk and chew gum while going through a checkout line. Fortunately most of them are at Walmart shitting themselves while they shop.
That's real nice of you, like scampercom I'm having the same problem, so I must be an idiot too. It's good to get encouragement not so great to get abuse. I'm sure we will both persevere and get a payment through.
Comments
Explain then. How does Apple Pay avoid fraud over EMV?
Protip: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204274
There is a specific point you are missing. In store purchases (i.e. purchases at Apple Retail or Trader Joes or the London Tube) are CARD PRESENT whereas purchases made using Apple Pay through an app (i.e. Airbnb or Instacart) are CARD NOT PRESENT.
As a side note - Apple can't mandate anything with merchants. The processors are the ones that actually enforce the process since it is their infrastructure. Apple Pay is just an authorization and identity platform. Because of Touch ID, the processors recognize Apple Pay as card present in physically present transactions. Additionally, Apple Pay specifically uses tokenization as a core aspect of the transaction. The tokenization was developed by the processors. They only announced tokenization is coming to Europe this year for both MasterCard (announced May 2015) and Visa (announced February 2015). Apple has no control over the rollout. That also is true for the US. The banks and the credit card issuers are responsible for that.
http://www.biometricupdate.com/201505/mastercard-to-introduce-biometrics-tokenization-in-european-cards-this-year
http://www.visaeurope.com/media/pdf/20989.pdf
Far too many merchants still don't even know about Apple Pay. I think Apple needs an advertising blitz like they did for the watch.
When Apple Pay first was available, I called my bank to ask when they would support it. The employee I spoke with had no idea what I was talking about. They've since added support, but that was a sign to me that Apple needs to do a better marketing job.
It's not in Apple's hands. The banks and credit card companies need to set up the infrastructure to handle tokenized transactions. Apple Pay is just authorization and identity. There is a scramble within the industry to get the infrastructure up and tuned for the October 2015 liability shift. When that happens, the weakest link in the transaction become liable. Terminal companies aren't able to produce machines fast enough.
I want 0.3 sec of payment, not 3 sec.
I want electronic receipt,
I think a lot of these will happen in time, but so far there dont seems to be any incentive for merchants to have NFC payment ready.
it is hard to believe that once one has tried Apply Pay one would ever go back to the old way. These days I would avoid places that doesn't accept Apply Pay if possible.
I've tried it a few times, at Whole Foods and at my local supermarket. TBH I don't find it a big deal to take out my wallet and swipe my card, I find myself doing that out of force of habit even though I could use Apple Pay.
1) It's not any slower than C&P or a card swipe, but faster is certainly better.
2) Electronic receipts are nice to have but I really don't want to give my email to every merchant. I don't mean manually giving it to them, I mean I also don't want it sent via my Apple Pay payment so they can send me a receipt. One solution is the receipt is sent to your bank encapsulated in the transaction as metadata which your bank then forwards onto you, or perhaps it's sent back via the NFC connection (this would now have to be much faster) which is then stored in Wallet with the store ID, timestamp/date, amount and other purchase data.
It's certainly not the same incentive as the banks, but there is some with general payment options. If there is a Walgreens on one corner and a CVS on the other one might go to Walgreens because they accept Apple Pay. Maybe not today, but once this grows out and people stop carrying as many cards (or any cards) on their person this could be a big issue with the potential lose of sales, just like it eventually became with retailers when credit cards reached a certain point.
I think merchants have to buy their own terminals in most cases, and that's with transaction fees. I really don't see banks (or Apple) needing to get companies to purchase and install NFC-capacble terminals, but the saving from fraud should make it extremely feasible for the banks to do it. Still, I would think the better solution would be to simply lower the transaction fees for Apple Pay (or secure Apple Pay-like services) which would then push merchants to purchase the terminals and advertise it. But that isn't about the customer, it's about the banks saving a lot of money on fraud once the saturation point is reached. The banks obviously know how each payment was made but we may need a new system that isn't as archaic as ""card present" and "card not present" since Apple Pay shouldn't be compared to either. My timeframe for this saturation in the US is about 5 years.
Apple would get bad press anyway. Even successful, record breaking quarters are deemed not successful enough.
Yep - Bloomberg would spin it anyway they want to.
Lies mixed in with half truths not mention a little sprinkle of fact just to justify their lofty position as a, ahem, "credible source".
I could forgive them for being just another aggregator - if they weren't hard wired into their own terminal which every trader has.
They've evolved over the last few years since the explosion of the net into some other kind of beast. Easily manipulated.
(I'm on a particularly bad anti-Bloomberg bent at the moment.)
You've gotta be kidding me and everyone else here.
Apple pay is mana from heaven for the banks !
Yes it costs them a small percentage but the security and reduction in theft and fraud will save them billions.
Gee, I wonder why they jumped on board so quickly.
Apple has provided a safe and secure mechanism - the banks have to sell it to reap the benefits.
Get ApplePay on all gas stations and I would bet money that it will take off like wildfire. At least at gas stations, it will give users the ability to try it out in a semi-private fashion without the worry of having a line of people behind you.
I have yet to try it out simply because when I'm at a checkout, I need to get out fast and I have zero time to fiddle with trying to use it. Gas stations, a totally different story.
This is probably because I haven't been able to go grocery shopping at my local Winn Dixie for the past 3 months.
You know, work.
Your dedication to you work is, er... um... interesting. You must be getting hungry by now.
Australia please. I bought an iPhone 6 Plus for this and it's ridiculous that the next model is almost out before this is rolled out internationally.
You might have a bit of a wait there mate. I can't see any reason why Australian banks should accommodate Apple in any way. They want a slice of the pie for bringing absolutely nothing to the table.
Same here I really want to use and have tried at Costa and Pret who brag about it at the checkout but zero success. I am obviously doing something very wrong as others here clearly are having a good experience.
Call me an idiot, but I can't figure out how to get ApplePay to work %u2014 and I'm only in my 40s. I actually have used it several times, but I only got it to work by accident, both times differently. (It's like of the steering wheel was in a different place each time you got in the car.)
Ideally I could hold my (off) phone up to something, and it would be done without user interaction. But no. Instead, you either have to touch the Apple ID button%u2026 or press it%u2026 or hold it%u2026 or maybe I have to go into Wallet? Or maybe several of those things! All I know is that when I'm at the front of the queue, I don%u2019t have time to be trying various combinations to see what works. Anyway, so that's why I don%u2019t use it, and I can't be the only one.
Since you invited me to call you an idiot, I will do so: You IDIOT!!
The reason you need to touch the Apple ID button so the iPhone knows it is you using the device to approve taking money out of your account. The way you want to use it would allow anyone who got possession of your phone to spend your money. FYI, the Apple watch will allow you to pay without touching any ID button because you had to authorize the watch in the morning when you strapped it on your wrist.
And "no" you are not the only idiot who can't walk and chew gum while going through a checkout line. Fortunately most of them are at Walmart shitting themselves while they shop.
That's real nice of you, like scampercom I'm having the same problem, so I must be an idiot too. It's good to get encouragement not so great to get abuse. I'm sure we will both persevere and get a payment through.